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Post by elystokie on Jul 20, 2022 6:55:35 GMT
Using emotive language does nothing to advance the opinion you embrace. Acknowledging climate change and enjoying sport and social activities are not mutually exclusive. I am also unsure of the connection between climate change and permanent lockdown. Mask wearing has nothing to do with climate change at all. Doing things like growing some of your own food can be satisfying and healthy. The fact remains that we are witnessing climate change and we have to address it. If you want a general rant against those who have a different opinion from you - that's fine, but to do it using the sort of language you use in your post will do nothing to convince those of us who base our opinions on evidence to change our view on what is an important issue. For a start, you need just observe those posters who cheer on net zero and climate apocalypse porn compared to those who question the logic behind it. Do a similar comparison to those who celebrated and supported the obscene, oppressive measures introduced over the past few years in the name of covid - lockdowns, masks and buying into Frisky Fergies calamitous predictions to name a few - against those who questioned the decision making, questioned the evidence and warned of the economical crisis now facing us. You'll see quite the correlation 😆 There also seems to be "quite the correlation" between climate deniers and supporters of that bloke in America that told everyone the way to beat covid was to drink bleach. That turned out well for the 'great guy' as he was described by 'somebody' on here  |
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Post by Foster on Jul 20, 2022 7:40:36 GMT
It's a lovely idea and I can fully understand why you want it. Unfortunately, that approach is probably going to lead to the collapse of food growing, large uninhabitable parts of the planet, mass migration, political tension, war and quite possibly the collapse of civilisation and human population. I know you don't believe it or even want to consider it a possibility, I can't say I blame you, who does? But that is what most scientists and politicians worry about as a likely scenario of runaway climate change, not a far-fetched one, which is precisely where we are heading if we don't make substantial changes to the way we live our lives. You're a young man, you'll probably live long enough, hopefully, to see it all play out. I wonder what you'll be saying then (not that there'll be an internet to post any thoughts on!) "Why didn't anyone do anything sooner?" maybe? Or perhaps you'll just be more honest "Oh well, I had a good time while it lasted, sorry grandkids!". All for taking the environment seriously and protecting the planet where possible. Climate emergency nonsense helps no one and hurts the poorest and most vulnerable in society the most. Anyone who wanted a serious conversation around the planet would start with China, India, Russia and subjects like population control. They rarely go there and instead opt to focus on comical measures like net zero, electric cars (built via African slave labour and China) and smashing UK green policy, ignoring the fact that we are totally irrelevant in the debate. All while using their lovely new iPhone! We do have a population problem in the UK mind but again, no one wants to talk about that bit. I agree with this part of your post. More needs to be done. As for population growth, there are countries in Africa where women are having on average more than 5 children. India population growth is also forecast to continue until 2060. Asia and Africa need to slow down in that regard. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 20, 2022 8:00:29 GMT
All for taking the environment seriously and protecting the planet where possible. Climate emergency nonsense helps no one and hurts the poorest and most vulnerable in society the most. Anyone who wanted a serious conversation around the planet would start with China, India, Russia and subjects like population control. They rarely go there and instead opt to focus on comical measures like net zero, electric cars (built via African slave labour and China) and smashing UK green policy, ignoring the fact that we are totally irrelevant in the debate. All while using their lovely new iPhone! We do have a population problem in the UK mind but again, no one wants to talk about that bit. I agree with this part of your post. More needs to be done. As for population growth, there are countries in Africa where women are having on average more than 5 children. India population growth is also forecast to continue until 2060. Asia and Africa need to slow down in that regard. Problem is Foster, no leader will go near it. Trying to tell certain regions in the world they can only have one or two children will go down about as well as telling Americans they can't have guns. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 20, 2022 8:01:48 GMT
For a start, you need just observe those posters who cheer on net zero and climate apocalypse porn compared to those who question the logic behind it. Do a similar comparison to those who celebrated and supported the obscene, oppressive measures introduced over the past few years in the name of covid - lockdowns, masks and buying into Frisky Fergies calamitous predictions to name a few - against those who questioned the decision making, questioned the evidence and warned of the economical crisis now facing us. You'll see quite the correlation 😆 There also seems to be "quite the correlation" between climate deniers and supporters of that bloke in America that told everyone the way to beat covid was to drink bleach. That turned out well for the 'great guy' as he was described by 'somebody' on here One thing is for certain - the "great guy" you referenced made far better predictions than frisky Fergie 🤗 |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 20, 2022 8:27:58 GMT
As for population growth, there are countries in Africa where women are having on average more than 5 children. India population growth is also forecast to continue until 2060. Asia and Africa need to slow down in that regard.  |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 20, 2022 8:30:38 GMT
You're a young man, you'll probably live long enough, hopefully, to see it all play out. I wonder what you'll be saying then (not that there'll be an internet to post any thoughts on!) "Why didn't anyone do anything sooner?" maybe? Or perhaps you'll just be more honest "Oh well, I had a good time while it lasted, sorry grandkids!". Why are you on here now? Just think of all the pollution you posting on here causes. All the transportation of the parts that make up the device you're posting on, all the infastructure that has had to be put in place to allow you to access the internet etc... Just think of all that energy, all that waste etc... Unyet you still sit here posting away day after day. If you're that concerned about impending doom do something about it, take that first step, stop posting on here, think how much you'll be saving the planet. Who knows, others might even follow your lead. Like buying my electricity from entirely green energy suppliers, for example? Been doing that for about the last ten years since ecotricity started. Not with them now, but it's still entirely from renewables. And yes, the device I'm posting on is manufactured and therefore creates pollution and takes energy. However, it's works, not mine, I use it for work so it'd be on anyway and it's using my green electricity. There are things you can do to minimise your environmental footprint if you're bothered. I appreciate that it requires commitment and green suppliers are rarely the cheapest. Talking of following leads, I'm impressed by your pioneering use of the word "unyet". It doesn't appear to have caught on so far, but you're giving it a good go |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 20, 2022 8:32:34 GMT
It's a lovely idea and I can fully understand why you want it. Unfortunately, that approach is probably going to lead to the collapse of food growing, large uninhabitable parts of the planet, mass migration, political tension, war and quite possibly the collapse of civilisation and human population. I know you don't believe it or even want to consider it a possibility, I can't say I blame you, who does? But that is what most scientists and politicians worry about as a likely scenario of runaway climate change, not a far-fetched one, which is precisely where we are heading if we don't make substantial changes to the way we live our lives. You're a young man, you'll probably live long enough, hopefully, to see it all play out. I wonder what you'll be saying then (not that there'll be an internet to post any thoughts on!) "Why didn't anyone do anything sooner?" maybe? Or perhaps you'll just be more honest "Oh well, I had a good time while it lasted, sorry grandkids!". All for taking the environment seriously and protecting the planet where possible. Climate emergency nonsense helps no one and hurts the poorest and most vulnerable in society the most. Anyone who wanted a serious conversation around the planet would start with China, India, Russia and subjects like population control. They rarely go there and instead opt to focus on comical measures like net zero, electric cars (built via African slave labour and China) and smashing UK green policy, ignoring the fact that we are totally irrelevant in the debate. All while using their lovely new iPhone! We do have a population problem in the UK mind but again, no one wants to talk about that bit. To be honest, that just sounds like an excuse for every country to do absolutely nothing effective, which is pretty much where we've been for decades now. Meanwhile, the earth continues to boil. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 20, 2022 8:35:04 GMT
All for taking the environment seriously and protecting the planet where possible. Climate emergency nonsense helps no one and hurts the poorest and most vulnerable in society the most. Anyone who wanted a serious conversation around the planet would start with China, India, Russia and subjects like population control. They rarely go there and instead opt to focus on comical measures like net zero, electric cars (built via African slave labour and China) and smashing UK green policy, ignoring the fact that we are totally irrelevant in the debate. All while using their lovely new iPhone! We do have a population problem in the UK mind but again, no one wants to talk about that bit. To be honest, that just sounds like an excuse for every country to do absolutely nothing effective, which is pretty much where we've been for decades now. Meanwhile, the earth continues to boil. Meh, you'd be amazed how humanity evolves and finds ways to survive. P.s the world isn't boiling, don't worry. |
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Post by elystokie on Jul 20, 2022 8:36:08 GMT
There also seems to be "quite the correlation" between climate deniers and supporters of that bloke in America that told everyone the way to beat covid was to drink bleach. That turned out well for the 'great guy' as he was described by 'somebody' on here One thing is for certain - the "great guy" you referenced made far better predictions than frisky Fergie 🤗 I've no idea what you're on about I'm afraid, listening to predictions from the likes of him was never high on my list of priorities after the bleach drinking advice, my thoughts were similar on the predictions of our own compulsive liar we've just got rid of  |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 20, 2022 8:41:49 GMT
Like buying my electricity from entirely green energy suppliers, for example? Been doing that for about the last ten years since ecotricity started. Not with them now, but it's still entirely from renewables. And yes, the device I'm posting on is manufactured and therefore creates pollution and takes energy. However, it's works, not mine, I use it for work so it'd be on anyway and it's using my green electricity. There are things you can do to minimise your environmental footprint if you're bothered. I appreciate that it requires commitment and green suppliers are rarely the cheapest. Talking of following leads, I'm impressed by your pioneering use of the word "unyet". It doesn't appear to have caught on so far, but you're giving it a good go  'Green energy' doesn't get generated from thin air. Think of all the materials used to build a wind turbine, all the lorries & cranes needed to move them into position (All the lorries & trains that had to transport the parts around to build the factories that built the lorries & cranes!) It goes on & on & on. The infastructure for your lovely 'green energy' that lets you sit here feeling all smug would have done more 'damage' to the planet than what the entire population of fucking Botswana have done. Do better, stop doing everything that the evil, planet killing modern world has given you, because that's what someone who genuinely believed the world was going to end very soon without urgent action would be doing. You prefer to take the easy route, the smug "Look at me, I'm such a good guy" route of posting bollocks on the internet to make yourself feel good. |
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Post by whatsashig on Jul 20, 2022 8:42:42 GMT
All for taking the environment seriously and protecting the planet where possible. Climate emergency nonsense helps no one and hurts the poorest and most vulnerable in society the most. Anyone who wanted a serious conversation around the planet would start with China, India, Russia and subjects like population control. They rarely go there and instead opt to focus on comical measures like net zero, electric cars (built via African slave labour and China) and smashing UK green policy, ignoring the fact that we are totally irrelevant in the debate. All while using their lovely new iPhone! We do have a population problem in the UK mind but again, no one wants to talk about that bit. I agree with this part of your post. More needs to be done. As for population growth, there are countries in Africa where women are having on average more than 5 children. India population growth is also forecast to continue until 2060. Asia and Africa need to slow down in that regard. We started the industrial revolution. We’ve raped lands wide and far, but you can get an eco boiler for nowt if your on benefits |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 20, 2022 8:46:43 GMT
To be honest, that just sounds like an excuse for every country to do absolutely nothing effective, which is pretty much where we've been for decades now. Meanwhile, the earth continues to boil. Meh, you'd be amazed how humanity evolves and finds ways to survive. P.s the world isn't boiling, don't worry. Ah, you've inadvertently hit the nail on the head there. Evolution takes hundred of thousands of years for even small changes. We're making the planet inhospitable over just a couple of hundred. That's the whole point. Perhaps you meant human ingenuity will 'evolve' to invent a solution? Maybe. However, we've done nothing in the half century or more that global warming/climate change has been firmly on the radar. In fact, if anything, things have got worse. Accelerated. You should have a good look into the average annual temperatures of the last few decades and see where it's heading. Yes, I know there were spells in the fairly recent past which had other periods of warming, but none so prolonged, consistent and due to emissions from industrial activity, that's the point. climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/It's not all woke, conspiracy stuff. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 20, 2022 8:59:41 GMT
Like buying my electricity from entirely green energy suppliers, for example? Been doing that for about the last ten years since ecotricity started. Not with them now, but it's still entirely from renewables. And yes, the device I'm posting on is manufactured and therefore creates pollution and takes energy. However, it's works, not mine, I use it for work so it'd be on anyway and it's using my green electricity. There are things you can do to minimise your environmental footprint if you're bothered. I appreciate that it requires commitment and green suppliers are rarely the cheapest. Talking of following leads, I'm impressed by your pioneering use of the word "unyet". It doesn't appear to have caught on so far, but you're giving it a good go 'Green energy' doesn't get generated from thin air. Think of all the materials used to build a wind turbine, all the lorries & cranes needed to move them into position (All the lorries & trains that had to transport the parts around to build the factories that built the lorries & cranes!) It goes on & on & on. The infastructure for your lovely 'green energy' that lets you sit here feeling all smug would have done more 'damage' to the planet than what the entire population of fucking Botswana have done. Do better, stop doing everything that the evil, planet killing modern world has given you, because that's what someone who genuinely believed the world was going to end very soon without urgent action would be doing. You prefer to take the easy route, the smug "Look at me, I'm such a good guy" route of posting bollocks on the internet to make yourself feel good. Nope, I prefer to take the measures which I think are achievable and sensible for someone living in 21st century UK, not remotest Botswana. So I use green energy instead of no energy. I walk/cycle instead of driving when I can for local trips. I take the train instead of driving if I can when going further afield. It's not that hard, but it does need you to make that decision, instead of jumping in the car every time. Yes, all of those options come with their own infrastructure needs, and therefore create pollution when compared to a Tuareg nomad living purely off the land, but they seem pretty reasonable actions to take in a modern, developed country if you want to make a positive contribution to climate change. You'll find futility is often self-imposed. |
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Post by musik on Jul 20, 2022 9:01:48 GMT
I don't think there is an agenda.
Why would anyone has as a goal to make life miserable for people, including themselves?
But there is an issue where people have different opinions:
The extent of the climate changes.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 20, 2022 9:04:34 GMT
I don't think there is an agenda. Why would anyone has as a goal to make life miserable for people, including themselves? But there is an issue where people have different opinions: The extent of the climate changes. See the last 4000 years of human history mate. Countless leaders and influential figures frequently make life miserable for people because guess what - they benefit from it. |
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Post by drfootball on Jul 20, 2022 12:54:32 GMT
I don't think there is an agenda. Why would anyone has as a goal to make life miserable for people, including themselves? But there is an issue where people have different opinions: The extent of the climate changes. Of course there`s an agenda, ask Starkiller. Anyone seen him lately or did the global elite and Big Pharma have him `rubbed out` during the Covid aftermath ? |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jul 20, 2022 14:50:31 GMT
I found some of my school coursework and car magazine clippings from 1992 the other day. I'd written about cars, and the 90s was apparently 'the era of the green car' with catalytic converters made standard on all vehicles.
How we've been lied to by the oil and car companies over the years! Always obscuring the real problem.
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Post by stokiemac on Jul 21, 2022 9:00:09 GMT
As with everything that starts as a noble cause its eventually hijacked by capitalism and becomes disingenuous. Companies who have contributed to the destruction of the planet and communities for years now charge me 50p for a carrier bag and pretend I'm the bad guy. I am very worried about the climate and the state of the world for my children but I'm also sick of being gaslighted into believing that I'm the problem because I drive to work
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 21, 2022 10:09:30 GMT
As with everything that starts as a noble cause its eventually hijacked by capitalism and becomes disingenuous. Companies who have contributed to the destruction of the planet and communities for years now charge me 50p for a carrier bag and pretend I'm the bad guy. I am very worried about the climate and the state of the world for my children but I'm also sick of being gaslighted into believing that I'm the problem because I drive to work You're not being gaslit, transport is the main contributor to the climate emergency. (That doesn't mean to say you have an easy alternative like public transport or working from home, however, everybody driving everywhere makes a massive contribution to the problem).   |
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Post by yeokel on Jul 21, 2022 10:16:17 GMT
As with everything that starts as a noble cause its eventually hijacked by capitalism and becomes disingenuous. Companies who have contributed to the destruction of the planet and communities for years now charge me 50p for a carrier bag and pretend I'm the bad guy. I am very worried about the climate and the state of the world for my children but I'm also sick of being gaslighted into believing that I'm the problem because I drive to work You're not being gaslit, transport is the main contributor to the climate emergency. (That doesn't mean to say you have an easy alternative like public transport or working from home, however, everybody driving everywhere makes a massive contribution to the problem). What you are showing is EU only, which is a tiny part of the world. Other regions could produce and show entirely different sets of data. |
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Post by Foster on Jul 21, 2022 10:19:47 GMT
You're not being gaslit, transport is the main contributor to the climate emergency. (That doesn't mean to say you have an easy alternative like public transport or working from home, however, everybody driving everywhere makes a massive contribution to the problem). What you are showing is EU only, which is a tiny part of the world. Other regions could produce and show entirely different sets of data. 100% correct. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 21, 2022 12:56:13 GMT
You're not being gaslit, transport is the main contributor to the climate emergency. (That doesn't mean to say you have an easy alternative like public transport or working from home, however, everybody driving everywhere makes a massive contribution to the problem). What you are showing is EU only, which is a tiny part of the world. Other regions could produce and show entirely different sets of data. That's true, and I was making the assumption that the OP to whom I was replying was also UK based and might be interested in what the picture is for greenhouse gas emissions in our neck of the woods, ie Europe, and what proportion comes from transport, since he mentioned some degree of frustration at 'being blamed' for driving to work. Here's the global picture.  |
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Post by yeokel on Jul 21, 2022 13:16:11 GMT
What you are showing is EU only, which is a tiny part of the world. Other regions could produce and show entirely different sets of data. That's true, and I was making the assumption that the OP to whom I was replying was also UK based and might be interested in what the picture is for greenhouse gas emissions in our neck of the woods, ie Europe, and what proportion comes from transport, since he mentioned some degree of frustration at 'being blamed' for driving to work. Here's the global picture. Thanks. I was picking you up on the fact that you wrote “ transport is the main contributor to the climate emergency”. I appreciate your correction above.  |
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Post by stokiemac on Jul 21, 2022 13:30:25 GMT
As with everything that starts as a noble cause its eventually hijacked by capitalism and becomes disingenuous. Companies who have contributed to the destruction of the planet and communities for years now charge me 50p for a carrier bag and pretend I'm the bad guy. I am very worried about the climate and the state of the world for my children but I'm also sick of being gaslighted into believing that I'm the problem because I drive to work You're not being gaslit, transport is the main contributor to the climate emergency. (That doesn't mean to say you have an easy alternative like public transport or working from home, however, everybody driving everywhere makes a massive contribution to the problem). To borrow your example to help me explain why I think I'm being gaslit, motor companies have made millions for decades making and selling gasoline engines, petrol companies have then made billions in petrol. These companies have historically stifled renewable energy and ensured it was difficult for someone to have an alternative choice cornering the market. Now these same companies are telling me they're committed to stopping global warming and if I was a responsible person I'd be buying an electric car from them now that there's a market for them. This example translates across food, clothing, packaging. Hypocritical organisations telling us to do our bit after they've done nothing but squeeze profit out of the environment for years |
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Post by elystokie on Jul 21, 2022 14:08:21 GMT
You're not being gaslit, transport is the main contributor to the climate emergency. (That doesn't mean to say you have an easy alternative like public transport or working from home, however, everybody driving everywhere makes a massive contribution to the problem). To borrow your example to help me explain why I think I'm being gaslit, motor companies have made millions for decades making and selling gasoline engines, petrol companies have then made billions in petrol. These companies have historically stifled renewable energy and ensured it was difficult for someone to have an alternative choice cornering the market. Now these same companies are telling me they're committed to stopping global warming and if I was a responsible person I'd be buying an electric car from them now that there's a market for them. This example translates across food, clothing, packaging. Hypocritical organisations telling us to do our bit after they've done nothing but squeeze profit out of the environment for years Henry Ford invented a car made from hemp, hemp has 25,000 other uses including fuel, paper, clothing and more or less anything that can be made from metal or plastic. However it was more or less declared illegal to grow around the time of this video. Edit - hemp is apparently 4 times as effective as trees at taking CO2 out of the atmosphere, so there's some locked in that car forever. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 21, 2022 15:07:24 GMT
You're not being gaslit, transport is the main contributor to the climate emergency. (That doesn't mean to say you have an easy alternative like public transport or working from home, however, everybody driving everywhere makes a massive contribution to the problem). To borrow your example to help me explain why I think I'm being gaslit, motor companies have made millions for decades making and selling gasoline engines, petrol companies have then made billions in petrol. These companies have historically stifled renewable energy and ensured it was difficult for someone to have an alternative choice cornering the market. Now these same companies are telling me they're committed to stopping global warming and if I was a responsible person I'd be buying an electric car from them now that there's a market for them. This example translates across food, clothing, packaging. Hypocritical organisations telling us to do our bit after they've done nothing but squeeze profit out of the environment for years I completely agree, but I'd say that's just capitalism in general! Profit before everything else. I guess what I'm saying is I don't feel gaslit or angry about it, although if you do, then fair enough. I'm well aware that cars have been a staple of the global economy for decades and that transport infrastructure globally has, by and large, been developed to facilitate car use above everything else. And that this has contributed significantly to the climate emergency we're now facing. Either we accept it and try to do something about it while we still can (frustrating though it might be for reasons you have explained) or we carry on regardless and probably end up destroying ourselves. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 21, 2022 15:27:48 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 22, 2022 9:27:35 GMT
Anyone catch Big Oil vs The World last night?
No great surprises, but nonetheless a depressing watch. Since the late 70s, a sizeable cabal of rich and powerful companies spent years and considerable fortunes undermining the findings that burning fossil fuels will cause global warming. And the big oil companies shut down their alternative fuel research bodies as soon as the impact of fossil fuels became apparent.
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Post by dutchstokie on Jul 22, 2022 9:37:12 GMT
We need some form of population control. Anything else is just treating the symptoms, not the cause. Cull the fat people first…… Firm but fair… |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 22, 2022 9:40:51 GMT
We need some form of population control. Anything else is just treating the symptoms, not the cause. Cull the fat people first…… Firm but fair… Run, Badge, run  |
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