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Post by dingdongbell on Mar 5, 2021 10:09:30 GMT
Ever since Allen came back the side look awful. Defeat after defeat. He’s the worst signing I’ve seen. A clueless headless chicken and now one who’s past it and giving the ball away. I cannot comprehend why he is played and why he’s still at the club. I cannot stand him as a player. A clockwork mouse let go and a clapped out one at that. I'm no fan of Allen. But he's not "past it". He's a player who was out for 9 months and he's still finding his way towards full fitness and ability. You don't come back after an injury like that and are instantly back at your best. Probably won't happen until next season. So what’s the point in keeping playing him then ? I think Joes fan club members need to take their rose tinted specs off and realise that this club has gone one way with him in the team ,not just down to him but managers have kept blind faith with him , unless of course they are forced to play him .
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Post by dingdongbell on Mar 5, 2021 10:11:27 GMT
Some blinkered haters on here, hopefully its just the usual knee-jerk reaction to an unjust defeat and blaming the usual suspects. Here is my controversial opinion: Both played well overall. Allen looked a bit rusty first half and was a yard off the pace to begin with but the starting formation clearly is not one that suits him. 2nd half after the enforced change he was excellent. Him & Mikel bossed the midfield till Cooper made the change. After that, they were playing against a 3 man midfield so were overworked not tired. If he had subbed one of them, fine, but I had no problem with them playing until the end. I see no-one has mentioned how much of our good attacking play Allen was involved in? Or the ball for Brown that he should have done better with? A broken clock is right twice a day. I'd challenge anyone to re-watch that 95 minutes last night, and come out of it thinking that Allen had 'played well'. A few glimpses, ok, a decent pass here and there, overshadowed by some pathetic ball control, shit 10 yards wayward passes (he wasn't alone there), no real impact on anything we were doing as a team, and at times, looking like a schoolkid playing in a grown-ups game. It's not do much a case of 'hating' him. He's just not very good. I fail to see all of these redeeming features he has. I think someone else needs to take the blinkers off if they think Allen played well , he was abysmal .
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Post by dingdongbell on Mar 5, 2021 10:14:44 GMT
Must add, Joe Allen is probably a really nice bloke. I don't know if this is well known, but I was told by someone that he has sold his house (wherever that was) and is now living near Swansea!! Maybe Newport are showing interest.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2021 10:33:16 GMT
A broken clock is right twice a day. I'd challenge anyone to re-watch that 95 minutes last night, and come out of it thinking that Allen had 'played well'. A few glimpses, ok, a decent pass here and there, overshadowed by some pathetic ball control, shit 10 yards wayward passes (he wasn't alone there), no real impact on anything we were doing as a team, and at times, looking like a schoolkid playing in a grown-ups game. It's not do much a case of 'hating' him. He's just not very good. I fail to see all of these redeeming features he has. Hundreds and even thousands of Stoke fans will all have positive thoughts about Allen and Mikel including me! That is the nature of people who watch the game. I have an opinion and you think I am wrong. You have an opinion and I think you are wrong. It is what generates the perpetual motion of this forum. In this case though I think there will be ten people to every one in favour of the quality of Mikel and Allen in our midfield. If we all just agreed on stuff, you're correct, we wouldn't have a forum. That's what keeps it rolling. You are wrong about Allen & Mikel though 🤪
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 5, 2021 10:43:20 GMT
A broken clock is right twice a day. I'd challenge anyone to re-watch that 95 minutes last night, and come out of it thinking that Allen had 'played well'. A few glimpses, ok, a decent pass here and there, overshadowed by some pathetic ball control, shit 10 yards wayward passes (he wasn't alone there), no real impact on anything we were doing as a team, and at times, looking like a schoolkid playing in a grown-ups game. It's not do much a case of 'hating' him. He's just not very good. I fail to see all of these redeeming features he has. Hundreds and even thousands of Stoke fans will all have positive thoughts about Allen and Mikel including me! That is the nature of people who watch the game. I have an opinion and you think I am wrong. You have an opinion and I think you are wrong. It is what generates the perpetual motion of this forum. In this case though I think there will be ten people to every one in favour of the quality of Mikel and Allen in our midfield. I wouldn't bet your house on that.
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Post by cheadlestokie on Mar 5, 2021 11:15:12 GMT
I couldn't believe how poor Allen's basic ball control was on the night and his passing really non existent.
Mikel was better but does not last 75 minutes never mind 90.
I thought it was remarkable that , particularly when Swansea brought off a forward and put a midfield player on, a very good one at that in Hourihane, we did not make changes then to bring on a pair of fresh legs in either Cousins or Thompson.
Both of them should have been on before the end for Mikel and Allen who were clearly struggling with the pace of the game in the last 20/25 minutes.
To then bring Thompson off for Powell was so negative and further gave ground to Swansea.
I am not sure whether Powell was injured but it just seemed the wrong decision to me.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 5, 2021 11:18:18 GMT
I couldn't believe how poor Allen's basic ball control was on the night and his passing really non existent. Mikel was better but does not last 75 minutes never mind 90. I thought it was remarkable that , particularly when Swansea brought off a forward and put a midfield player on, a very good one at that in Hourihane, we did not make changes then to bring on a pair of fresh legs in either Cousins or Thompson. Both of them should have been on before the end for Mikel and Allen who were clearly struggling with the pace of the game in the last 20/25 minutes. To then bring Thompson off for Powell was so negative and further gave ground to Swansea. I am not sure whether Powell was injured but it just seemed the wrong decision to me. Powell was injured. Who was available on the bench to bring on to replace him like for like?
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Post by LGH87 on Mar 5, 2021 11:24:27 GMT
I couldn't believe how poor Allen's basic ball control was on the night and his passing really non existent. Mikel was better but does not last 75 minutes never mind 90. I thought it was remarkable that , particularly when Swansea brought off a forward and put a midfield player on, a very good one at that in Hourihane, we did not make changes then to bring on a pair of fresh legs in either Cousins or Thompson. Both of them should have been on before the end for Mikel and Allen who were clearly struggling with the pace of the game in the last 20/25 minutes. To then bring Thompson off for Powell was so negative and further gave ground to Swansea. I am not sure whether Powell was injured but it just seemed the wrong decision to me. Powell was injured. Who was available on the bench to bring on to replace him like for like? The player the manager signed to be an attacking midfielder TOB? If powell was injured then fair enough but Mikel or Allen or even both should not have played the full 90, we can used 5 subs ffs, there's no excuse to leave players on the pitch chasing shadows.
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Post by cheadlestokie on Mar 5, 2021 11:25:50 GMT
I couldn't believe how poor Allen's basic ball control was on the night and his passing really non existent. Mikel was better but does not last 75 minutes never mind 90. I thought it was remarkable that , particularly when Swansea brought off a forward and put a midfield player on, a very good one at that in Hourihane, we did not make changes then to bring on a pair of fresh legs in either Cousins or Thompson. Both of them should have been on before the end for Mikel and Allen who were clearly struggling with the pace of the game in the last 20/25 minutes. To then bring Thompson off for Powell was so negative and further gave ground to Swansea. I am not sure whether Powell was injured but it just seemed the wrong decision to me. Powell was injured. Who was available on the bench to bring on to replace him like for like? Ok but why leave both Allen and Mikel on the pitch when they were clearly off the pace in the last 25 minutes? He could have given Oakley- Booth a go at 10 or taken Powell off, given Clarke a go at 10 which his ability on the ball seems to be suitable for him and just give young Norton the last 20 minutes on the left of the three. No the subs were very negative response when we were on top for a good period of the second half.
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Post by barcaontrent on Mar 5, 2021 11:30:02 GMT
Allen runs about like a lost puppy leaving all kinds of space in behind him
As Mikel is an OAP in footballer terms, he hasn't got the pace to plug the gaps.
We seem to lose the midfield battle every time these two play together
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Post by pez75 on Mar 5, 2021 11:30:51 GMT
I couldn't believe how poor Allen's basic ball control was on the night and his passing really non existent. Mikel was better but does not last 75 minutes never mind 90. I thought it was remarkable that , particularly when Swansea brought off a forward and put a midfield player on, a very good one at that in Hourihane, we did not make changes then to bring on a pair of fresh legs in either Cousins or Thompson. Both of them should have been on before the end for Mikel and Allen who were clearly struggling with the pace of the game in the last 20/25 minutes. To then bring Thompson off for Powell was so negative and further gave ground to Swansea. I am not sure whether Powell was injured but it just seemed the wrong decision to me. Watch the game back without the blinkers and come back and tell the truth. Allen had a shaky start to the game, but settled down and was excellent 2nd half until they crowded us out in midfield. I know its fashionable to blame everything on Allen (And/or Mikel) at the moment but peoples entrenched unwavering views are just getting boring now. Allen is a bit off his top form since his injury but he has been mostly good. He played well in the 2 recent wins that all the doom-mongers seem to have forgotten about, and then was rested for Barnsley which was a car-crash and we have then played 2 of the best sides in this division and been outplayed (for one half) by one, and cheated by the other. Our main problem this season has been creating and more importantly, scoring chances. If we had a more ruthless attack a lot of the draws and even a few defeats this season may have been different. IMO that is the difference between a decent season and the frustrating one we are enduring now. None of this is specifically down to Allen & Mikel.
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Post by march4 on Mar 5, 2021 11:31:00 GMT
Our decline started when we signed Allen
While he was injured we improved.
As soon as he returns we are back to relegation form.
Coincidence?
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Post by LGH87 on Mar 5, 2021 11:32:49 GMT
I couldn't believe how poor Allen's basic ball control was on the night and his passing really non existent. Mikel was better but does not last 75 minutes never mind 90. I thought it was remarkable that , particularly when Swansea brought off a forward and put a midfield player on, a very good one at that in Hourihane, we did not make changes then to bring on a pair of fresh legs in either Cousins or Thompson. Both of them should have been on before the end for Mikel and Allen who were clearly struggling with the pace of the game in the last 20/25 minutes. To then bring Thompson off for Powell was so negative and further gave ground to Swansea. I am not sure whether Powell was injured but it just seemed the wrong decision to me. Watch the game back without the blinkers and come back and tell the truth. Allen had a shaky start to the game, but settled down and was excellent 2nd half until they crowded us out in midfield. I know its fashionable to blame everything on Allen (And/or Mikel) at the moment but peoples entrenched unwavering views are just getting boring now. Allen is a bit off his top form since his injury but he has been mostly good. He played well in the 2 recent wins that all the doom-mongers seem to have forgotten about, and then was rested for Barnsley which was a car-crash and we have then played 2 of the best sides in this division and been outplayed (for one half) by one, and cheated by the other. Our main problem this season has been creating and more importantly, scoring chances. If we had a more ruthless attack a lot of the draws and even a few defeats this season may have been different. IMO that is the difference between a decent season and the frustrating one we are enduring now. None of this is specifically down to Allen & Mikel. Allen played well against the two worst sides we've seen down the Brit this season. For someone of his reputation and 60k a week wages, that is surely the bare minimum we should expect
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 5, 2021 11:33:27 GMT
Powell was injured. Who was available on the bench to bring on to replace him like for like? The player the manager signed to be an attacking midfielder TOB? If powell was injured then fair enough but Mikel or Allen or even both should not have played the full 90, we can used 5 subs ffs, there's no excuse to leave players on the pitch chasing shadows. Is TOB an attacking midfielder? I ask because having watched him probably 15 times or so I still don’t know. He’s not a genuine option is he?
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 5, 2021 11:35:23 GMT
Powell was injured. Who was available on the bench to bring on to replace him like for like? Ok but why leave both Allen and Mikel on the pitch when they were clearly off the pace in the last 25 minutes? He could have given Oakley- Booth a go at 10 or taken Powell off, given Clarke a go at 10 which his ability on the ball seems to be suitable for him and just give young Norton the last 20 minutes on the left of the three. No the subs were very negative response when we were on top for a good period of the second half. I don’t know. I too thought Allen was terrible on Wednesday. Personally I would have thought Cousins might have been a better shout, but I think it’s harsh to jump on this negativity bandwagon when he’s taken an injured midfielder off and replaced him with another midfielder.
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Post by pez75 on Mar 5, 2021 11:41:23 GMT
Watch the game back without the blinkers and come back and tell the truth. Allen had a shaky start to the game, but settled down and was excellent 2nd half until they crowded us out in midfield. I know its fashionable to blame everything on Allen (And/or Mikel) at the moment but peoples entrenched unwavering views are just getting boring now. Allen is a bit off his top form since his injury but he has been mostly good. He played well in the 2 recent wins that all the doom-mongers seem to have forgotten about, and then was rested for Barnsley which was a car-crash and we have then played 2 of the best sides in this division and been outplayed (for one half) by one, and cheated by the other. Our main problem this season has been creating and more importantly, scoring chances. If we had a more ruthless attack a lot of the draws and even a few defeats this season may have been different. IMO that is the difference between a decent season and the frustrating one we are enduring now. None of this is specifically down to Allen & Mikel. Allen played well against the two worst sides we've seen down the Brit this season. For someone of his reputation and 60k a week wages, that is surely the bare minimum we should expect He hasn't played bad in most of the others, but the lynching posse can smell blood and have a noose to fill.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2021 11:43:38 GMT
I'm no fan of Allen. But he's not "past it". He's a player who was out for 9 months and he's still finding his way towards full fitness and ability. You don't come back after an injury like that and are instantly back at your best. Probably won't happen until next season. So what’s the point in keeping playing him then ? To get him up towards full finess, of course.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Mar 5, 2021 12:09:20 GMT
If we have any say in it at all (do we?) we can't renew Mikel or Chester for another year. If anyone comes sniffing around for Allen or Clucas I'd let one of them go. Both would leave us with a bigger rebuild than we are already facing. Cousins and Thompson are nowhere near starters if we're to have a stab at improving next season, so I'd look for one midfielder on loan to replace Mikel and one to buy, to replace either Allen or Clucas. RND confuses me so it'll be interesting to see what happens with the left back slot and Smith definitely needs replacing. We need to bite the bullet and go with Souttar and Collins as first choice centre backs supported by Bath and maybe another of the young lads coming through. A first choice centre forward is key to help Fletcher and Campbell out and once Clare and Matondo go back, I'd like to see a new right winger brought in to complement Doughty on the left, even if we start with Campbell on the right as we were doing.I'm still totally flummoxed that we have Gunn for all of next season too. Is this even allowed/official? If so, it'll be goodbye Davies I think as Bursik has more potential to be better. So, five new players at least, all of whom should be starters. Is this practical or feasible? Two loans and then maybe two sales at least from our ranks (McClean and one midfielder). FFP will focus the mind but astute recruitment (a tall order, I know) could give us a lift and a team of energy, pace and power.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Mar 5, 2021 12:12:48 GMT
A broken clock is right twice a day. I'd challenge anyone to re-watch that 95 minutes last night, and come out of it thinking that Allen had 'played well'. A few glimpses, ok, a decent pass here and there, overshadowed by some pathetic ball control, shit 10 yards wayward passes (he wasn't alone there), no real impact on anything we were doing as a team, and at times, looking like a schoolkid playing in a grown-ups game. It's not do much a case of 'hating' him. He's just not very good. I fail to see all of these redeeming features he has. Hundreds and even thousands of Stoke fans will all have positive thoughts about Allen and Mikel including me! That is the nature of people who watch the game. I have an opinion and you think I am wrong. You have an opinion and I think you are wrong. It is what generates the perpetual motion of this forum. In this case though I think there will be ten people to every one in favour of the quality of Mikel and Allen in our midfield. You’ve got to be joking with that last sentence? 😂
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Mar 5, 2021 12:18:37 GMT
I got panned for saying Joe Allen is the worst signing this club has ever made.
Call me Mystic Meg.
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Post by march4 on Mar 5, 2021 12:30:43 GMT
The player the manager signed to be an attacking midfielder TOB? If powell was injured then fair enough but Mikel or Allen or even both should not have played the full 90, we can used 5 subs ffs, there's no excuse to leave players on the pitch chasing shadows. Is TOB an attacking midfielder? I ask because having watched him probably 15 times or so I still don’t know. He’s not a genuine option is he? The lad has talent but looks too lightweight to me to make an impression.
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Post by stokemark on Mar 5, 2021 13:18:12 GMT
A broken clock is right twice a day. I'd challenge anyone to re-watch that 95 minutes last night, and come out of it thinking that Allen had 'played well'. A few glimpses, ok, a decent pass here and there, overshadowed by some pathetic ball control, shit 10 yards wayward passes (he wasn't alone there), no real impact on anything we were doing as a team, and at times, looking like a schoolkid playing in a grown-ups game. It's not do much a case of 'hating' him. He's just not very good. I fail to see all of these redeeming features he has. Hundreds and even thousands of Stoke fans will all have positive thoughts about Allen and Mikel including me! That is the nature of people who watch the game. I have an opinion and you think I am wrong. You have an opinion and I think you are wrong. It is what generates the perpetual motion of this forum. In this case though I think there will be ten people to every one in favour of the quality of Mikel and Allen in our midfield. The only Stoke supporters 'in favour' of Mikel and Allen in our midfield are ones who havent watched Stoke for years. Infact the only other human being I can think of is this Irish fella called Michael O'Neil who seems somewhat startstruck by the two of them. In summary you are talking utter rubbish
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Post by chamberlain on Mar 5, 2021 13:26:04 GMT
I couldn't believe how poor Allen's basic ball control was on the night and his passing really non existent. Mikel was better but does not last 75 minutes never mind 90. I thought it was remarkable that , particularly when Swansea brought off a forward and put a midfield player on, a very good one at that in Hourihane, we did not make changes then to bring on a pair of fresh legs in either Cousins or Thompson. Both of them should have been on before the end for Mikel and Allen who were clearly struggling with the pace of the game in the last 20/25 minutes. To then bring Thompson off for Powell was so negative and further gave ground to Swansea. I am not sure whether Powell was injured but it just seemed the wrong decision to me. Watch the game back without the blinkers and come back and tell the truth. Allen had a shaky start to the game, but settled down and was excellent 2nd half until they crowded us out in midfield. I know its fashionable to blame everything on Allen (And/or Mikel) at the moment but peoples entrenched unwavering views are just getting boring now. Allen is a bit off his top form since his injury but he has been mostly good. He played well in the 2 recent wins that all the doom-mongers seem to have forgotten about, and then was rested for Barnsley which was a car-crash and we have then played 2 of the best sides in this division and been outplayed (for one half) by one, and cheated by the other. Our main problem this season has been creating and more importantly, scoring chances. If we had a more ruthless attack a lot of the draws and even a few defeats this season may have been different. IMO that is the difference between a decent season and the frustrating one we are enduring now. None of this is specifically down to Allen & Mikel. Watch Allen's passes they are nearly always misplaced
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 5, 2021 13:28:45 GMT
Hundreds and even thousands of Stoke fans will all have positive thoughts about Allen and Mikel including me! That is the nature of people who watch the game. I have an opinion and you think I am wrong. You have an opinion and I think you are wrong. It is what generates the perpetual motion of this forum. In this case though I think there will be ten people to every one in favour of the quality of Mikel and Allen in our midfield. The only Stoke supporters 'in favour' of Mikel and Allen in our midfield are ones who havent watched Stoke for years. Infact the only other human being I can think of is this Irish fella called Michael O'Neil who seems somewhat startstruck by the two of them. In summary you are talking utter rubbish I'm not sure. Especially re Allen. From my experience I would say most Stoke fans I know love him. That's based on conversations and the abuse I get for shouting abuse at/about him at the game. And it's not the support your team crap, it's Joe Allen is our best player shut the fuck up stuff. Which is replied with usually, is he fuck and a laugh
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Post by silverdollar on Mar 5, 2021 15:01:00 GMT
Hundreds and even thousands of Stoke fans will all have positive thoughts about Allen and Mikel including me! That is the nature of people who watch the game. I have an opinion and you think I am wrong. You have an opinion and I think you are wrong. It is what generates the perpetual motion of this forum. In this case though I think there will be ten people to every one in favour of the quality of Mikel and Allen in our midfield. The only Stoke supporters 'in favour' of Mikel and Allen in our midfield are ones who havent watched Stoke for years. Infact the only other human being I can think of is this Irish fella called Michael O'Neil who seems somewhat startstruck by the two of them. In summary you are talking utter rubbish Yes but you're opinion is different from mine as I explained. You think you are correct but I would beg to differ.
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Post by stokemark on Mar 6, 2021 8:09:18 GMT
The only Stoke supporters 'in favour' of Mikel and Allen in our midfield are ones who havent watched Stoke for years. Infact the only other human being I can think of is this Irish fella called Michael O'Neil who seems somewhat startstruck by the two of them. In summary you are talking utter rubbish Yes but you're opinion is different from mine as I explained. You think you are correct but I would beg to differ. Fair enough but please explain to me what you personally see in Mikel and Allen as a combination ? Tell me, based on some sort of evidence at least, what the merits are and have been in playing them against the likes of Barnsley, Brentford and Swansea in particular.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2021 8:18:38 GMT
I got panned for saying Joe Allen is the worst signing this club has ever made. Call me Mystic Meg. And quite rightly so. Mystic Bollocks.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Mar 6, 2021 8:47:51 GMT
I got panned for saying Joe Allen is the worst signing this club has ever made. Call me Mystic Meg. And quite rightly so. Mystic Bollocks. It’s not though is it. The bloke is beyond toss, so is Mikel for that matter, he appears to have left his legs in 2014.
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Post by gingerninja on Mar 6, 2021 8:53:22 GMT
It's quite simple, we start next season with them as a pair and we will simply not progress.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 6, 2021 8:58:09 GMT
Yes but you're opinion is different from mine as I explained. You think you are correct but I would beg to differ. Fair enough but please explain to me what you personally see in Mikel and Allen as a combination ? Tell me, based on some sort of evidence at least, what the merits are and have been in playing them against the likes of Barnsley, Brentford and Swansea in particular. Mikel had a good game midweek off the back of a decent game at Brentford. Joe Allen less so.
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