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Post by henry on Mar 4, 2021 12:57:00 GMT
I'd drop both and play Cousins and Thompson in there. I think we'd be a better side if Allen and Mikel just fuck off before the game. OS. Totally agree OS
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 13:02:03 GMT
Some blinkered haters on here, hopefully its just the usual knee-jerk reaction to an unjust defeat and blaming the usual suspects. Here is my controversial opinion: Both played well overall. Allen looked a bit rusty first half and was a yard off the pace to begin with but the starting formation clearly is not one that suits him. 2nd half after the enforced change he was excellent. Him & Mikel bossed the midfield till Cooper made the change. After that, they were playing against a 3 man midfield so were overworked not tired. If he had subbed one of them, fine, but I had no problem with them playing until the end. I see no-one has mentioned how much of our good attacking play Allen was involved in? Or the ball for Brown that he should have done better with? A broken clock is right twice a day. I'd challenge anyone to re-watch that 95 minutes last night, and come out of it thinking that Allen had 'played well'. A few glimpses, ok, a decent pass here and there, overshadowed by some pathetic ball control, shit 10 yards wayward passes (he wasn't alone there), no real impact on anything we were doing as a team, and at times, looking like a schoolkid playing in a grown-ups game. It's not do much a case of 'hating' him. He's just not very good. I fail to see all of these redeeming features he has.
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Post by pez75 on Mar 4, 2021 13:10:44 GMT
Some blinkered haters on here, hopefully its just the usual knee-jerk reaction to an unjust defeat and blaming the usual suspects. Here is my controversial opinion: Both played well overall. Allen looked a bit rusty first half and was a yard off the pace to begin with but the starting formation clearly is not one that suits him. 2nd half after the enforced change he was excellent. Him & Mikel bossed the midfield till Cooper made the change. After that, they were playing against a 3 man midfield so were overworked not tired. If he had subbed one of them, fine, but I had no problem with them playing until the end. I see no-one has mentioned how much of our good attacking play Allen was involved in? Or the ball for Brown that he should have done better with? A broken clock is right twice a day. I'd challenge anyone to re-watch that 95 minutes last night, and come out of it thinking that Allen had 'played well'. A few glimpses, ok, a decent pass here and there, overshadowed by some pathetic ball control, shit 10 yards wayward passes (he wasn't alone there), no real impact on anything we were doing as a team, and at times, looking like a schoolkid playing in a grown-ups game. It's not do much a case of 'hating' him. He's just not very good. I fail to see all of these redeeming features he has. Thanks - you made my point much better than I did
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 13:20:29 GMT
Attachment DeletedAfter 60mins we fall away because we keep players on who tire and and get bypassed in the midfield. No surprise that we’ve conceded more goals in the last 30 mins than we have in the first 60.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 4, 2021 13:25:26 GMT
I’ll be gutted if either of them are here next season. I will be gutted if either of them play again this season.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2021 13:30:00 GMT
I’ll be gutted if either of them are here next season. I will be gutted if either of them play again this season. I'd be more concerned by next season than this season if I were you!
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Post by cheadlepotter on Mar 4, 2021 13:33:36 GMT
I’ll be gutted if either of them are here next season. I will be gutted if either of them play again this season. Allen will be here until the end of next season. Let’s hope and pray that Mikel isn’t offered another year.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 4, 2021 14:19:49 GMT
I will be gutted if either of them play again this season. Allen will be here until the end of next season. Let’s hope and pray that Mikel isn’t offered another year. With MONS record on signings so far, Mikel will be here again next season, keeping young players out of the side.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Mar 4, 2021 14:48:06 GMT
I’ll be gutted if either of them are here next season. You'll be gutted then. Probably.
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Post by citynickscfc on Mar 4, 2021 16:00:15 GMT
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 4, 2021 16:07:27 GMT
What is our record with Allen in the team?
Must be some kind of world record for negative impact on a team's performance.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Mar 4, 2021 16:27:56 GMT
Must add, Joe Allen is probably a really nice bloke.
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Post by Championship Potter on Mar 4, 2021 17:23:18 GMT
What is our record with Allen in the team? Must be some kind of world record for negative impact on a team's performance. In his defence, he’s come into a team in free fall since the Campbell injury, but that stat can’t look great for him or Mikel.
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Post by robwahlmann on Mar 4, 2021 17:57:46 GMT
Not been a big fan of them playing together, but thought they played well yesterday, especially Mikel,and I don't think they could be blamed for any of the goals we let in. We also created enough to win this game so another diappointing result based on that, still we show we can compete with the best teams in this division. Hopefully next season the ball will drop more for us than this season!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 4, 2021 20:06:53 GMT
Yep, sat in like he was meant to and kept it simple, job done. I'm not sure he intentionally keeps it simple, more a complete inability to do anything other than screen* the defence and pass sideways. *Runs from side to side, not actually doing anything. He's been an abysmal signing. Genuinely abysmal. The fact that people are calling for Jordan Cousins ahead of him says it all. Thats all he's meant to be doing, its also pretty much all Cousins needs to do too, you don't want the guy thats meant to be protecting the defence doing anything risky. Cousins would be as well as Mikel for me given our current injuries.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 20:21:09 GMT
View AttachmentAfter 60mins we fall away because we keep players on who tire and and get bypassed in the midfield. No surprise that we’ve conceded more goals in the last 30 mins than we have in the first 60. I suppose that would only be a useful condemnation of the tactics though if it was greatly different to the spread of goals conceded by other teams. A lot of goals come late, often as a function of the opposition putting more effort in to get them.
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Post by dave1 on Mar 4, 2021 20:44:35 GMT
Must add, Joe Allen is probably a really nice bloke. I don't know if this is well known, but I was told by someone that he has sold his house (wherever that was) and is now living near Swansea!!
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 4, 2021 21:16:46 GMT
View AttachmentAfter 60mins we fall away because we keep players on who tire and and get bypassed in the midfield. No surprise that we’ve conceded more goals in the last 30 mins than we have in the first 60. Got a link to that? I'd love to see how other teams do. Mikel+Allen just doesn't work for me. Allen's looked alright paired with Thompson in a few games, we should limit to one of them on the pitch at a time.
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 4, 2021 21:18:28 GMT
I'm not sure he intentionally keeps it simple, more a complete inability to do anything other than screen* the defence and pass sideways. *Runs from side to side, not actually doing anything. He's been an abysmal signing. Genuinely abysmal. The fact that people are calling for Jordan Cousins ahead of him says it all. Thats all he's meant to be doing, its also pretty much all Cousins needs to do too, you don't want the guy thats meant to be protecting the defence doing anything risky. Cousins would be as well as Mikel for me given our current injuries. I've tried to keep an eye on Mikel and cousins during games and noticed a bunch of times when Mikel should be tearing back to cover but he's just lollygagging. That's a big deal if you're supposed to be the defence's shield and I didn't notice cousins failing at that.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Mar 4, 2021 22:13:18 GMT
If the manager starts next season with these 2 he deserves to be fired.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 4, 2021 22:19:06 GMT
Thats all he's meant to be doing, its also pretty much all Cousins needs to do too, you don't want the guy thats meant to be protecting the defence doing anything risky. Cousins would be as well as Mikel for me given our current injuries. I've tried to keep an eye on Mikel and cousins during games and noticed a bunch of times when Mikel should be tearing back to cover but he's just lollygagging. That's a big deal if you're supposed to be the defence's shield and I didn't notice cousins failing at that. That's where is age/fitness comes in, I just don't think he's capable and able to last a decent amount in games, I understand that isn't good but he's still put in some good performances. He wouldn't be in my first choice midfield if all were fit and ready.
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 4, 2021 22:24:45 GMT
I've tried to keep an eye on Mikel and cousins during games and noticed a bunch of times when Mikel should be tearing back to cover but he's just lollygagging. That's a big deal if you're supposed to be the defence's shield and I didn't notice cousins failing at that. That's where is age/fitness comes in, I just don't think he's capable and able to last a decent amount in games, I understand that isn't good but he's still put in some good performances. He wouldn't be in my first choice midfield if all were fit and ready. It's not such a big deal if you've got Cousins or Thompson to cover. Of the two I'd keep Allen and pair him with a CDM when he's playing.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 4, 2021 22:35:44 GMT
That's where is age/fitness comes in, I just don't think he's capable and able to last a decent amount in games, I understand that isn't good but he's still put in some good performances. He wouldn't be in my first choice midfield if all were fit and ready. It's not such a big deal if you've got Cousins or Thompson to cover. Of the two I'd keep Allen and pair him with a CDM when he's playing. I really hope we sell Allen tbh, he's nothing but a problem that offers very little that we can't afford. We should be looking for a major overhaul of the midfield next season before anything else imo.
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 4, 2021 22:38:58 GMT
It's not such a big deal if you've got Cousins or Thompson to cover. Of the two I'd keep Allen and pair him with a CDM when he's playing. I really hope we sell Allen tbh, he's nothing but a problem that offers very little that we can't afford. We should be looking for a major overhaul of the midfield next season before anything else imo. I'm not wedded to the bloke and would sell. He's still got something though IMO, he tried to move it forward and his assist for the goal Vs Luton was great. I'd just rather lose Mikel rather than Allen.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 5, 2021 2:00:37 GMT
I really hope we sell Allen tbh, he's nothing but a problem that offers very little that we can't afford. We should be looking for a major overhaul of the midfield next season before anything else imo. I'm not wedded to the bloke and would sell. He's still got something though IMO, he tried to move it forward and his assist for the goal Vs Luton was great. I'd just rather lose Mikel rather than Allen. That's fair enough and it was a good assist, but it's not enough for him to be in side or be earning the kind of money he must be on, he's had one good game since being back and even if you give him some leeway and say 5 of thse were down to getting over his injury its still not good enough.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 5, 2021 8:58:17 GMT
Flannagan & Allen would be a better pairing.
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Post by hardcastle on Mar 5, 2021 9:35:35 GMT
View AttachmentAfter 60mins we fall away because we keep players on who tire and and get bypassed in the midfield. No surprise that we’ve conceded more goals in the last 30 mins than we have in the first 60. That's a very revealing stat and one which we can surely address easily enough - viz, when either Joe or Mikel start, we should bring them off after around 65 minutes. But can MON see it too?
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Post by leicspotter on Mar 5, 2021 9:39:55 GMT
I've lost count how many times I've said we should not start with both these two, it upsets the balance of the side. Play one with Thompson (I don't rate Cousins but would take him at a pinch), preferably Allen, then take him off when he gets knackered. Play 4321, as against Luton, and get the best out of what little quality we still have.
In a perfect world we would have 3 new midfielders for next season: a destroyer, a creator and an energetic box to boxer.
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Post by pavel on Mar 5, 2021 9:54:22 GMT
The main problem is the pairing of them together, it just doesn’t work and when you add in to that after 60 minutes they haven’t got the legs to keep going, it’s a recipe for disaster. Mikel hasn’t got 90 minutes in him anymore and Allen hasn’t due to being out for so long.
It’s utter madness playing them together and for the whole match, when the body tires you mentally tire as well and those small margins in fitness and metal awareness magnify into costly mistakes that are costing us.
I wouldn’t mind if one of them played for 60 minutes but 90 minutes together twice a week is unfathomable thinking by O’Neil.
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Post by silverdollar on Mar 5, 2021 10:03:47 GMT
Some blinkered haters on here, hopefully its just the usual knee-jerk reaction to an unjust defeat and blaming the usual suspects. Here is my controversial opinion: Both played well overall. Allen looked a bit rusty first half and was a yard off the pace to begin with but the starting formation clearly is not one that suits him. 2nd half after the enforced change he was excellent. Him & Mikel bossed the midfield till Cooper made the change. After that, they were playing against a 3 man midfield so were overworked not tired. If he had subbed one of them, fine, but I had no problem with them playing until the end. I see no-one has mentioned how much of our good attacking play Allen was involved in? Or the ball for Brown that he should have done better with? A broken clock is right twice a day. I'd challenge anyone to re-watch that 95 minutes last night, and come out of it thinking that Allen had 'played well'. A few glimpses, ok, a decent pass here and there, overshadowed by some pathetic ball control, shit 10 yards wayward passes (he wasn't alone there), no real impact on anything we were doing as a team, and at times, looking like a schoolkid playing in a grown-ups game. It's not do much a case of 'hating' him. He's just not very good. I fail to see all of these redeeming features he has. Hundreds and even thousands of Stoke fans will all have positive thoughts about Allen and Mikel including me! That is the nature of people who watch the game. I have an opinion and you think I am wrong. You have an opinion and I think you are wrong. It is what generates the perpetual motion of this forum. In this case though I think there will be ten people to every one in favour of the quality of Mikel and Allen in our midfield.
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