|
Post by HarryTheHat on Jan 27, 2021 19:00:13 GMT
Although he's made no noises about leaving, now would be a good time to make him Captain in an effort to show him how well regarded he is, it might make it clear to him that we see him as our future. It's a toss-up between him and Tyrese as to who is our most important player for the future
Shawcross got the captaincy at a young age - why not Nathan - he has those qualities already and who cares if it pisses off the likes of Chester/Allen/Baath/Mikel? - they haven't really shown any leadership have they?
Nathan for skipper now! :-)
|
|
|
Post by chiswickpotter on Jan 27, 2021 19:09:53 GMT
Your method isn’t right. The loss is turnover minus wages minus the annual player charge calculated by dividing each players fee over his contract length for each season. That will add £15 to £20 million of cost in the last two seasons and can be found in the accounts for the previous two seasons (I think it was £35 million in the relegation season and maybe £15 million the year after). This has to be set against the FFP allowances which are £13 million a season and £35 million for 2017/18 not £65 million. Add that up and it’s clear we are right on the edge as MON keeps saying and why we had to agree a budget and plan with the EFL a year ago Yeah I think I accounted for that, but it wasn't linear, the club took a bigger hit after relegation proportionally as exceptional losses in the narrative. I guessed a value based on that but also minus the Covid depreciation they can now apply which was an estimate. Those values won't be obvious how they are calculated but clearly you can makes an estimate based on UK player trading in 2020. My £65M was a typo admittedly but doesn't affect the calculation in the first two columns as they are straight from companies house. I'm not saying it isn't close but I stand by the point we are nowhere near needing to sell Collins this window. I and not sure. We know the annual player charge for past transfers was £29;million in 2018/19, it went up after relegation as we spent so much despite selling Shaqiri and Ramadan. Presumably it will be £29 million for 2019/20 as the playing staff didn’t change. And let’s say we get half the value written off to make it £15 million in 2020/21. On your salary numbers, we lose £16 million in 2019/20 (53-40-29) and £18 million in 2020/21 (32-35-15). That’s £74 million of losses against the allowance of ££74 million. However, I can’t see any non-salary operating costs in your numbers? These were £17 million in 2018/19 of which maybe £5 million can be deducted for FFP, leaving another £12 million of cost. For 2020/21 these will be lower, although the club is paying most staff I believe, however if we add in matchday income presumably we have to have matching costs. If my operating cost numbers are right, that suggests we are some way over the limit. It still feels very precarious to me with us very exposed to the COVID relief rules being favorably applied. Presumably this is why MON goes on about FFP so often If we make it unscathed, I believe we will have to sell before the start of next season. 2021/22 looks like turnover of £25 million (based on £6 million of TV income compared to £51 million in 2018/19 when total turnover was £70 million).to cover salaries (£20 million would be a cut of £15 million on this season, £10 million of operating costs and the annual player charge of £15 million. That would be a loss of £20 million. This would be called out before the season sorted if accurate
|
|
|
Post by 1982stokie on Jan 27, 2021 19:38:03 GMT
I would refuse any dealings with Burnley, especially considering what they valued Vokes at if an out of shape waste of space like him is worth between 7.5 and 9 million Colins is worth way more Doesn’t matter what they valued him at, we willingly fucking paid it! Yes but that’s not my point, this is about valuation
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Jan 27, 2021 20:50:39 GMT
Although he's made no noises about leaving, now would be a good time to make him Captain in an effort to show him how well regarded he is, it might make it clear to him that we see him as our future. It's a toss-up between him and Tyrese as to who is our most important player for the future Shawcross got the captaincy at a young age - why not Nathan - he has those qualities already and who cares if it pisses off the likes of Chester/Allen/Baath/Mikel? - they haven't really shown any leadership have they? Nathan for skipper now! :-) Why not? We’ve tried just about everyone else - they get dropped, suspended or injured and we have find someone else
|
|
|
Post by apb1979 on Jan 27, 2021 21:02:04 GMT
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Jan 27, 2021 21:11:55 GMT
Yeah I think I accounted for that, but it wasn't linear, the club took a bigger hit after relegation proportionally as exceptional losses in the narrative. I guessed a value based on that but also minus the Covid depreciation they can now apply which was an estimate. Those values won't be obvious how they are calculated but clearly you can makes an estimate based on UK player trading in 2020. My £65M was a typo admittedly but doesn't affect the calculation in the first two columns as they are straight from companies house. I'm not saying it isn't close but I stand by the point we are nowhere near needing to sell Collins this window. I and not sure. We know the annual player charge for past transfers was £29;million in 2018/19, it went up after relegation as we spent so much despite selling Shaqiri and Ramadan. Presumably it will be £29 million for 2019/20 as the playing staff didn’t change. And let’s say we get half the value written off to make it £15 million in 2020/21. On your salary numbers, we lose £16 million in 2019/20 (53-40-29) and £18 million in 2020/21 (32-35-15). That’s £74 million of losses against the allowance of ££74 million. However, I can’t see any non-salary operating costs in your numbers? These were £17 million in 2018/19 of which maybe £5 million can be deducted for FFP, leaving another £12 million of cost. For 2020/21 these will be lower, although the club is paying most staff I believe, however if we add in matchday income presumably we have to have matching costs. If my operating cost numbers are right, that suggests we are some way over the limit. It still feels very precarious to me with us very exposed to the COVID relief rules being favorably applied. Presumably this is why MON goes on about FFP so often If we make it unscathed, I believe we will have to sell before the start of next season. 2021/22 looks like turnover of £25 million (based on £6 million of TV income compared to £51 million in 2018/19 when total turnover was £70 million).to cover salaries (£20 million would be a cut of £15 million on this season, £10 million of operating costs and the annual player charge of £15 million. That would be a loss of £20 million. This would be called out before the season sorted if accurate It's also why we don't here our board talking about FFP, Scholes and Co. have caused this situation but they are happy for the managers to carry the can for their incompetent running of this club.
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Jan 27, 2021 22:47:44 GMT
Yeah I think I accounted for that, but it wasn't linear, the club took a bigger hit after relegation proportionally as exceptional losses in the narrative. I guessed a value based on that but also minus the Covid depreciation they can now apply which was an estimate. Those values won't be obvious how they are calculated but clearly you can makes an estimate based on UK player trading in 2020. My £65M was a typo admittedly but doesn't affect the calculation in the first two columns as they are straight from companies house. I'm not saying it isn't close but I stand by the point we are nowhere near needing to sell Collins this window. I and not sure. We know the annual player charge for past transfers was £29;million in 2018/19, it went up after relegation as we spent so much despite selling Shaqiri and Ramadan. Presumably it will be £29 million for 2019/20 as the playing staff didn’t change. And let’s say we get half the value written off to make it £15 million in 2020/21. On your salary numbers, we lose £16 million in 2019/20 (53-40-29) and £18 million in 2020/21 (32-35-15). That’s £74 million of losses against the allowance of ££74 million. However, I can’t see any non-salary operating costs in your numbers? These were £17 million in 2018/19 of which maybe £5 million can be deducted for FFP, leaving another £12 million of cost. For 2020/21 these will be lower, although the club is paying most staff I believe, however if we add in matchday income presumably we have to have matching costs. If my operating cost numbers are right, that suggests we are some way over the limit. It still feels very precarious to me with us very exposed to the COVID relief rules being favorably applied. Presumably this is why MON goes on about FFP so often If we make it unscathed, I believe we will have to sell before the start of next season. 2021/22 looks like turnover of £25 million (based on £6 million of TV income compared to £51 million in 2018/19 when total turnover was £70 million).to cover salaries (£20 million would be a cut of £15 million on this season, £10 million of operating costs and the annual player charge of £15 million. That would be a loss of £20 million. This would be called out before the season sorted if accurate I am not sure the club has to sell before the start of next season, I think it is perfectly acceptable for the club to say they want to keep players till the january window or that they will make moves to sell at the end of season if not promoted with Campbell fit they would have 3 players who selling just one of would clear ffp or the club may look to move on some of the higher earners like Allen, Clucas, Mclean who would also generate an ffp profit if a transfer fee was received as these would have low values in the books.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Jan 27, 2021 23:06:46 GMT
Yeah I think I accounted for that, but it wasn't linear, the club took a bigger hit after relegation proportionally as exceptional losses in the narrative. I guessed a value based on that but also minus the Covid depreciation they can now apply which was an estimate. Those values won't be obvious how they are calculated but clearly you can makes an estimate based on UK player trading in 2020. My £65M was a typo admittedly but doesn't affect the calculation in the first two columns as they are straight from companies house. I'm not saying it isn't close but I stand by the point we are nowhere near needing to sell Collins this window. I and not sure. We know the annual player charge for past transfers was £29;million in 2018/19, it went up after relegation as we spent so much despite selling Shaqiri and Ramadan. Presumably it will be £29 million for 2019/20 as the playing staff didn’t change. And let’s say we get half the value written off to make it £15 million in 2020/21. On your salary numbers, we lose £16 million in 2019/20 (53-40-29) and £18 million in 2020/21 (32-35-15). That’s £74 million of losses against the allowance of ££74 million. However, I can’t see any non-salary operating costs in your numbers? These were £17 million in 2018/19 of which maybe £5 million can be deducted for FFP, leaving another £12 million of cost. For 2020/21 these will be lower, although the club is paying most staff I believe, however if we add in matchday income presumably we have to have matching costs. If my operating cost numbers are right, that suggests we are some way over the limit. It still feels very precarious to me with us very exposed to the COVID relief rules being favorably applied. Presumably this is why MON goes on about FFP so often If we make it unscathed, I believe we will have to sell before the start of next season. 2021/22 looks like turnover of £25 million (based on £6 million of TV income compared to £51 million in 2018/19 when total turnover was £70 million).to cover salaries (£20 million would be a cut of £15 million on this season, £10 million of operating costs and the annual player charge of £15 million. That would be a loss of £20 million. This would be called out before the season sorted if accurate Butland,Diouf two expensive players off the books
|
|
|
Post by wazbagsbro on Jan 27, 2021 23:10:57 GMT
I think we have decided to keep Collins ,get promoted and buy Tarkowski in the summer as his back up .simple
|
|
|
Post by blackpoolred on Jan 27, 2021 23:52:28 GMT
Although he's made no noises about leaving, now would be a good time to make him Captain in an effort to show him how well regarded he is, it might make it clear to him that we see him as our future. It's a toss-up between him and Tyrese as to who is our most important player for the future Shawcross got the captaincy at a young age - why not Nathan - he has those qualities already and who cares if it pisses off the likes of Chester/Allen/Baath/Mikel? - they haven't really shown any leadership have they? Nathan for skipper now! :-) Christ No!!!! He has hardly played any games. He is doing ok and holding his own, but that is about it. It is ok that he is just doing ok - he is only 19. Burnley could end being a step-down, given their financial clout against ours should we get promoted and the board decides to back their manager. If he goes to a big club he would get even less game time. At the moment he just about proving he can cut the mustard at this level - nothing more. For his own sake he needs to stay here for a couple of seasons get some game time and see where it goes with Stoke. Personally, I would want to keep him, as with most of our promising youngsters, but if we get offered stupid money and he wants to go then I would be tempted
|
|
|
Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jan 27, 2021 23:55:55 GMT
Although he's made no noises about leaving, now would be a good time to make him Captain in an effort to show him how well regarded he is, it might make it clear to him that we see him as our future. It's a toss-up between him and Tyrese as to who is our most important player for the future Shawcross got the captaincy at a young age - why not Nathan - he has those qualities already and who cares if it pisses off the likes of Chester/Allen/Baath/Mikel? - they haven't really shown any leadership have they? Nathan for skipper now! :-) Christ No!!!! He has hardly played any games. He is doing ok and holding his own, but that is about it. It is ok that he is just doing ok - he is only 19. Burnley could end being a step-down, given their financial clout against ours should we get promoted and the board decides to back their manager. If he goes to a big club he would get even less game time. At the moment he just about proving he can cut the mustard at this level - nothing more. For his own sake he needs to stay here for a couple of seasons get some game time and see where it goes with Stoke. Personally, I would want to keep him, as with most of our promising youngsters, but if we get offered stupid money and he wants to go then I would be tempted 😂😂 Scoring goals, being asked to play out of position and still being our best defender. Yeah he's scraping by. 👍
|
|
|
Post by blackpoolred on Jan 28, 2021 1:35:49 GMT
Christ No!!!! He has hardly played any games. He is doing ok and holding his own, but that is about it. It is ok that he is just doing ok - he is only 19. Burnley could end being a step-down, given their financial clout against ours should we get promoted and the board decides to back their manager. If he goes to a big club he would get even less game time. At the moment he just about proving he can cut the mustard at this level - nothing more. For his own sake he needs to stay here for a couple of seasons get some game time and see where it goes with Stoke. Personally, I would want to keep him, as with most of our promising youngsters, but if we get offered stupid money and he wants to go then I would be tempted 😂😂 Scoring goals, being asked to play out of position and still being our best defender. Yeah he's scraping by. 👍 Batth scored last time out We have a whole raft of central defenders at the club all of which are mediocre. Yet the manager will not play Collins in his preferred position. Souttar has been the best defender and performing slightly above average - the rest have been average including Collins. He rarely gets MOM on the player rating threads, in fact, his marks are, in the main, mediocre. Great with the football, naive defensively(at the moment) May become a great talent - hopefully with the Potters
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Jan 28, 2021 19:09:18 GMT
|
|
|
Post by datguy on Jan 29, 2021 12:18:21 GMT
Saw this on the BBC Sport Gossip page:
"Stoke City want more than £15m for centre-half Nathan Collins, with Arsenal and Burnley among the clubs interested in the 19-year-old, who has represented the Republic of Ireland at Under-21 level. (Team Talk)"
Much better if true.
|
|
|
Post by scfcwebby on Jan 29, 2021 12:52:27 GMT
I think we have decided to keep Collins ,get promoted and buy Tarkowski in the summer as his back up .simple We should offer Burnley 3.5m for him the cheeky fuckers
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Jan 29, 2021 13:12:04 GMT
We would sell at £15m.
|
|
|
Post by themistocles on Jan 29, 2021 13:14:24 GMT
I wonder if another bid will come in before the window shuts.
|
|
|
Post by wherty on Jan 29, 2021 13:18:50 GMT
Although he's made no noises about leaving, now would be a good time to make him Captain in an effort to show him how well regarded he is, it might make it clear to him that we see him as our future. It's a toss-up between him and Tyrese as to who is our most important player for the future Shawcross got the captaincy at a young age - why not Nathan - he has those qualities already and who cares if it pisses off the likes of Chester/Allen/Baath/Mikel? - they haven't really shown any leadership have they? Nathan for skipper now! :-) If you watch collins on the pitch he is far from vocal. Harry Souttar is the organiser, leader and vocal one of the back 4. He will be captain next season.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 29, 2021 13:32:47 GMT
£15m with another full season on loan would be nice if one of the big boys such as Arsenal or Man Utd came in for him. Burnley can kiss my swingers......
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Jan 29, 2021 16:50:19 GMT
|
|
|
Post by logdog on Jan 29, 2021 17:07:28 GMT
Once again, MON speaks very eloquently and makes a lot of sense. Can only see this as very positive news on these two and our stance as regards to (not)selling players.😊👍
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 29, 2021 17:13:53 GMT
The true impact of FFP gets murkier and murkier.
|
|
|
Post by ravey123 on Jan 29, 2021 17:21:53 GMT
The true impact of FFP gets murkier and murkier. I wonder if the club are banking on ffp being postponed for a few years due to Covid
|
|
|
Post by stokefc on Jan 29, 2021 17:38:54 GMT
we have assets now which makes me feel a tiny bit more comfortable with ffp where as 12 months ago our players were pretty much worthless , still a long way to go though
|
|
|
Post by logdog on Jan 29, 2021 17:46:55 GMT
The true impact of FFP gets murkier and murkier. Murkier & murkier? How so? He’s pretty much spoke about everything FFP related here. Now whether the board are singing from the same hymn sheet is another matter, but I reckon everything the manager is saying is pretty positive all things considered.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 29, 2021 17:56:55 GMT
The true impact of FFP gets murkier and murkier. Murkier & murkier? How so? He’s pretty much spoke about everything FFP related here. Now whether the board are singing from the same hymn sheet is another matter, but I reckon everything the manager is saying is pretty positive all things considered. Well in the last 24 hours we've had sage advice on here that we have to sell everything that moves at pretty much any serious bid we get to we can pick and choose which route we go. No one really seems to know.
|
|
|
Post by bgreen13 on Jan 29, 2021 17:59:01 GMT
Murkier & murkier? How so? He’s pretty much spoke about everything FFP related here. Now whether the board are singing from the same hymn sheet is another matter, but I reckon everything the manager is saying is pretty positive all things considered. Well in the last 24 hours we've had sage advice on here that we have to sell everything that moves at pretty much any serious bid we get to we can pick and choose which route we go. No one really seems to know. And this is different how? 😂
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 29, 2021 17:59:58 GMT
Well in the last 24 hours we've had sage advice on here that we have to sell everything that moves at pretty much any serious bid we get to we can pick and choose which route we go. No one really seems to know. And this is different how? 😂 State your business troll.
|
|
|
Post by bgreen13 on Jan 29, 2021 18:00:56 GMT
And this is different how? 😂 State your business troll. My 'business' is you're a bitter little hypocrite. Precise enough?
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 29, 2021 18:03:16 GMT
State your business troll. My 'business' is you're a bitter little hypocrite. Precise enough? Your'e a happy clapping, 2008 sad act. I'm right behind teachers but fuck me it's time schools went back now isn't it.
|
|