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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 20, 2021 17:29:15 GMT
Make of this what you can… Scottish independence: Lead for No, but Scots only back referendum if Westminster agreeNot very encouraging for the independence folk although it is still tight. The point is that despite Brexit and a sustained period in office of a Tory government in Westminster a large part of which has been under the premiership of the buffoon bumbling Boris, nothing seems to have changed in folks opinion since 2014. Grievance doesn’t seem to be a particularly effective strategy. Like I said, I think the Scots preferred state is to moan about being fucked over by the English and Westminster, rather than actually do anything concrete about it.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 20, 2021 18:17:04 GMT
Make of this what you can… Scottish independence: Lead for No, but Scots only back referendum if Westminster agreeNot very encouraging for the independence folk although it is still tight. The point is that despite Brexit and a sustained period in office of a Tory government in Westminster a large part of which has been under the premiership of the buffoon bumbling Boris, nothing seems to have changed in folks opinion since 2014. Grievance doesn’t seem to be a particularly effective strategy. Like I said, I think the Scots preferred state is to moan about being fucked over by the English and Westminster, rather than actually do anything concrete about it. That is certainly what Alex Salmond reckons Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP are all about.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 22, 2021 16:38:11 GMT
Like I said, I think the Scots preferred state is to moan about being fucked over by the English and Westminster, rather than actually do anything concrete about it. That is certainly what Alex Salmond reckons Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP are all about. To be fair to Salmond, he put his money where his mouth was. Unfortunately for him, the Scottish electorate told him in no uncertain terms where he could stick his money! I don't think it'll really matter what Sturgeon or anyone else says or does in terms of a second vote on independence. Maybe straight after Brexit was finally done, a majority might have voted for it, but as time passes and Brexit becomes less of an immediate issue and people get used to all the crap associated with it, I think they'll go back to the comfort blanket of preferring things as they currently are: independence in almost all but name, but without any of the hard choices that would follow after genuine independence.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 23, 2021 13:00:37 GMT
That is certainly what Alex Salmond reckons Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP are all about. To be fair to Salmond, he put his money where his mouth was. Unfortunately for him, the Scottish electorate told him in no uncertain terms where he could stick his money! I don't think it'll really matter what Sturgeon or anyone else says or does in terms of a second vote on independence. Maybe straight after Brexit was finally done, a majority might have voted for it, but as time passes and Brexit becomes less of an immediate issue and people get used to all the crap associated with it, I think they'll go back to the comfort blanket of preferring things as they currently are: independence in almost all but name, but without any of the hard choices that would follow after genuine independence. I am no expert on this subject but I would imagine quite a few scots will look at the absolute chaos the Brexit negotiations caused and will think a split from the Union will be just as if not far worse. The comfort blanket of which you speak will look very warm and cuddly then.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 23, 2021 14:08:43 GMT
To be fair to Salmond, he put his money where his mouth was. Unfortunately for him, the Scottish electorate told him in no uncertain terms where he could stick his money! I don't think it'll really matter what Sturgeon or anyone else says or does in terms of a second vote on independence. Maybe straight after Brexit was finally done, a majority might have voted for it, but as time passes and Brexit becomes less of an immediate issue and people get used to all the crap associated with it, I think they'll go back to the comfort blanket of preferring things as they currently are: independence in almost all but name, but without any of the hard choices that would follow after genuine independence. I am no expert on this subject but I would imagine quite a few scots will look at the absolute chaos the Brexit negotiations caused and will think a split from the Union will be just as if not far worse. The comfort blanket of which you speak will look very warm and cuddly then. What’s really remarkable is a man whose (successful) defence against serious sexual abuse charges was that his behaviour was inappropriate but not criminal and whose own lawyer described him as a “ sex pest is able to have any public role.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 23, 2021 14:27:47 GMT
I am no expert on this subject but I would imagine quite a few scots will look at the absolute chaos the Brexit negotiations caused and will think a split from the Union will be just as if not far worse. The comfort blanket of which you speak will look very warm and cuddly then. What’s really remarkable is a man whose (successful) defence against serious sexual abuse charges was that his behaviour was inappropriate but not criminal and whose own lawyer described him as a “ sex pest is able to have any public role. Indeed. An oik of a man.
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 23, 2021 15:15:51 GMT
Like I said, I think the Scots preferred state is to moan about being fucked over by the English and Westminster, rather than actually do anything concrete about it. That is certainly what Alex Salmond reckons Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP are all about. The one aspect i find interesting is the fact that the SNP have managed to make there existence and election to power all about independence. Do the Scottish electorate not care about the fact that they just can't successfully run the country , their hard left agenda or the ambiguous answers to fundamental questions about their plans for independence should be raising red flags
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Post by felonious on Sept 23, 2021 15:50:11 GMT
That is certainly what Alex Salmond reckons Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP are all about. The one aspect i find interesting is the fact that the SNP have managed to make there existence and election to power all about independence. Do the Scottish electorate not care about the fact that they just can't successfully run the country , their hard left agenda or the ambiguous answers to fundamental questions about their plans for independence should be raising red flags No Harry, the flag's blue and white
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 13, 2023 17:38:43 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 13, 2023 20:02:26 GMT
Jesus Christ
Never mind the boats We need to shore up Hadrian's wall they’ll be flooding in by the hundreds of thousands the poor sods when one of those clowns gets in charge
Having just watched the latest debate god help them The only credible candidate is unlikely to win Because she believes women shouldn’t have dicks
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Post by Goonie on Mar 23, 2023 20:35:31 GMT
Interesting link between the SNP in WWII and their relationship with the National Socialists.
Declassified documents from MI5 in 2005 lead the story but I don't recall it being in the news then?!?
Great channel if you like your WWII history
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Post by Davef on Mar 24, 2023 10:13:35 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 25, 2023 9:07:43 GMT
It’s like Brexit but a tad stupider.
But Brexit made a tad less stupid.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2023 10:41:08 GMT
It’s like Brexit but a tad stupider. But Brexit made a tad less stupid. What I don’t get; they don’t want their highest seat of power to be Westminster which makes sense to me. I’d be a hypocrite to say otherwise as I fundamentally dislike and distrust power centralisation. But their long term goal is 1. leave UK but then 2. join the EU. Surely that’s out of the frying pan / into the fire, if the righteous goal of bringing the highest seat of power closer to the people at the bottom of the power pyramid is their true motivation? If their goal was to leave the UK and become an independent nation then I’d get it completely (would vote for it if I was Scottish) but I can’t look at it as much deeper than blind anglophobia given the confusing aims. You can obviously say The EU is primarily a trading bloc that it’s beneficial to be part of but it stopped primarily being that a long time ago. The trading bloc was always a ruse. The left of yesteryear recognised that at least, but those types are thin on the ground these days. Certainly on this forum.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 25, 2023 17:16:24 GMT
It’s like Brexit but a tad stupider. But Brexit made a tad less stupid. What I don’t get; they don’t want their highest seat of power to be Westminster which makes sense to me. I’d be a hypocrite to say otherwise as I fundamentally dislike and distrust power centralisation. But their long term goal is 1. leave UK but then 2. join the EU. Surely that’s out of the frying pan / into the fire, if the righteous goal of bringing the highest seat of power closer to the people at the bottom of the power pyramid is their true motivation? If their goal was to leave the UK and become an independent nation then I’d get it completely (would vote for it if I was Scottish) but I can’t look at it as much deeper than blind anglophobia given the confusing aims. You can obviously say The EU is primarily a trading bloc that it’s beneficial to be part of but it stopped primarily being that a long time ago. The trading bloc was always a ruse. The left of yesteryear recognised that at least, but those types are thin on the ground these days. Certainly on this forum. Westminster has so much more control over Scotland compared with the Eu and member states. It isn’t comparable
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Post by werrington on Mar 27, 2023 13:16:22 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 27, 2023 13:25:22 GMT
The other two candidates were woeful, Labour and the Tories would have been licking their lips at the prospect of one of them getting in.........
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Post by thevoid on Mar 27, 2023 13:34:09 GMT
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Post by yeokel on Mar 27, 2023 14:05:11 GMT
That the UK has a Hindu Prime Minister and Scotland, a Muslim First Minister could be an interesting dynamic.
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 27, 2023 14:23:58 GMT
The other two candidates were woeful, Labour and the Tories would have been licking their lips at the prospect of one of them getting in......... 😁 Forbes was by far the Better candidate And was rightly or wrongly derailed by the fact she’s not a fan of women with dicks And prefers children born in wedlock And despite all the shit the snp leadership chucked at her she still took 48 % of the final vote I think the only thing this vote decides is the snp is fairly split down the middle Oh and the probability of starmer having a overall majority at the next election
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Post by gawa on Mar 27, 2023 14:38:59 GMT
Hope they get their independence. They'll flourish.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 27, 2023 14:55:58 GMT
It’s like Brexit but a tad stupider. But Brexit made a tad less stupid. What I don’t get; they don’t want their highest seat of power to be Westminster which makes sense to me. I’d be a hypocrite to say otherwise as I fundamentally dislike and distrust power centralisation. But their long term goal is 1. leave UK but then 2. join the EU. Surely that’s out of the frying pan / into the fire, if the righteous goal of bringing the highest seat of power closer to the people at the bottom of the power pyramid is their true motivation? If their goal was to leave the UK and become an independent nation then I’d get it completely (would vote for it if I was Scottish) but I can’t look at it as much deeper than blind anglophobia given the confusing aims. You can obviously say The EU is primarily a trading bloc that it’s beneficial to be part of but it stopped primarily being that a long time ago. The trading bloc was always a ruse. The left of yesteryear recognised that at least, but those types are thin on the ground these days. Certainly on this forum. Why would you find it strange that a Country that was taken out of a Trading Bloc against "The Will of its People" wants to gain its independence to rejoin that Trading Bloc? Now can you imagine a Country voting to leave a Trading Bloc with which it does most of its Trade with and then immediately wanting to join another Trading Bloc thousands of miles away. Now that would be Bat Shit Crazy Surely no Country would consider such insanity? www.bnnbloomberg.ca/uk-looks-to-imminently-join-trans-pacific-trading-block-1.1899412
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Post by salopstick on Mar 27, 2023 14:58:09 GMT
I think the snp and Scottish independence has taken a backwards step with the continuity candidate.
If the snp wanted a change the other two should have made an arrangement for one of them to step back and allow a 1 on 1 contest. They have split the non-continuity vote
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Post by salopstick on Mar 27, 2023 15:00:24 GMT
What I don’t get; they don’t want their highest seat of power to be Westminster which makes sense to me. I’d be a hypocrite to say otherwise as I fundamentally dislike and distrust power centralisation. But their long term goal is 1. leave UK but then 2. join the EU. Surely that’s out of the frying pan / into the fire, if the righteous goal of bringing the highest seat of power closer to the people at the bottom of the power pyramid is their true motivation? If their goal was to leave the UK and become an independent nation then I’d get it completely (would vote for it if I was Scottish) but I can’t look at it as much deeper than blind anglophobia given the confusing aims. You can obviously say The EU is primarily a trading bloc that it’s beneficial to be part of but it stopped primarily being that a long time ago. The trading bloc was always a ruse. The left of yesteryear recognised that at least, but those types are thin on the ground these days. Certainly on this forum. Why would you find it strange that a Country that was taken out of a Trading Bloc against "The Will of its People" wants to gain its independence to rejoin that Trading Bloc? Now can you imagine a Country voting to leave a Trading Bloc with which it does most of its Trade with and then immediately wanting to join another Trading Bloc thousands of miles away. Now that would be Bat Shit Crazy Surely no Country would consider such insanity? www.bnnbloomberg.ca/uk-looks-to-imminently-join-trans-pacific-trading-block-1.1899412The EU is much more than a trading block
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 27, 2023 15:03:58 GMT
I think the snp and Scottish independence has taken a backwards step with the continuity candidate. If the snp wanted a change the other two should have made an arrangement for one of them to step back and allow a 1 on 1 contest. They have split the non-continuity vote I don’t think it would of changed the result maybe it would of been closer still The snp is fairly split down the middle over social issues And are in a lot of trouble They’ve caused the trouble themselves by allowing the green tail to wag the dogs arse
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Post by dexter97 on Mar 27, 2023 15:22:58 GMT
That the UK has a Hindu Prime Minister and Scotland, a Muslim First Minister could be an interesting dynamic. I believe they both describe themselves as 'practicing', but I don't think you'd put either of them at the conservative / traditionalist end of their respective faiths. Probably a bit like 'practicing' Christians who only ever go to Midnight Mass. Their political views divide them far more than their religious beliefs.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2023 15:38:34 GMT
What I don’t get; they don’t want their highest seat of power to be Westminster which makes sense to me. I’d be a hypocrite to say otherwise as I fundamentally dislike and distrust power centralisation. But their long term goal is 1. leave UK but then 2. join the EU. Surely that’s out of the frying pan / into the fire, if the righteous goal of bringing the highest seat of power closer to the people at the bottom of the power pyramid is their true motivation? If their goal was to leave the UK and become an independent nation then I’d get it completely (would vote for it if I was Scottish) but I can’t look at it as much deeper than blind anglophobia given the confusing aims. You can obviously say The EU is primarily a trading bloc that it’s beneficial to be part of but it stopped primarily being that a long time ago. The trading bloc was always a ruse. The left of yesteryear recognised that at least, but those types are thin on the ground these days. Certainly on this forum. Why would you find it strange that a Country that was taken out of a Trading Bloc against "The Will of its People" wants to gain its independence to rejoin that Trading Bloc? Now can you imagine a Country voting to leave a Trading Bloc with which it does most of its Trade with and then immediately wanting to join another Trading Bloc thousands of miles away. Now that would be Bat Shit Crazy Surely no Country would consider such insanity? www.bnnbloomberg.ca/uk-looks-to-imminently-join-trans-pacific-trading-block-1.1899412The original Scottish ref took place when the idea of uk leaving the eu was still fantasyland. And the EU stopped being the EEC a long time ago. So you can’t compare leaving a political union (where free trade is a major benefit) with joining any other trading blocs that don’t entail political union. There’s nothing batshit about that and I don’t think your point works. It only works if you view the EU as primarily a trading bloc, and the political union stuff irrelevant. Nobody in their right minds would’ve voted to leave if The EEC hadn’t become The EU.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 27, 2023 16:01:26 GMT
Why would you find it strange that a Country that was taken out of a Trading Bloc against "The Will of its People" wants to gain its independence to rejoin that Trading Bloc? Now can you imagine a Country voting to leave a Trading Bloc with which it does most of its Trade with and then immediately wanting to join another Trading Bloc thousands of miles away. Now that would be Bat Shit Crazy Surely no Country would consider such insanity? www.bnnbloomberg.ca/uk-looks-to-imminently-join-trans-pacific-trading-block-1.1899412The EU is much more than a trading block That's a generous, but accurate observation You may be interested in this Article which reflects on whether EU can save CPTPP and obviously some advantages for EU to do so thediplomat.com/2022/06/can-the-eu-save-the-cptpp/This Article critiques UK joining CPTPP Concerns However, CPTPP has expressed the UK should fully accept and commit to complying to the existing rules of the agreement. Therefore, since the government cannot negotiate terms, the question is what will the UK have to sacrifice in order to qualify? For example, there have been concerns raised that joining CPTPP will lead to the lowering of food standards. Central to this is that if we continue alignment with the EU on Sanitary and Phytosanitary measures, there would be a discrepancy in SPS measures between the UK and CPTPP members. UK farms have emphasised the impact that signing trade deals with countries who are big exporters of agriculture would have on UK industry. Another significant concern surrounds Intellectual Property (IP), and the need to protect our standards. IP contributes significantly to UK innovation and productivity. Currently, the UK is a member of the European Patent Convention (EPC), which supports particularly creative industries, but also research, tech, and innovation businesses. There are inconsistencies between CPTPP rules on IP and the EPC, which, if the UK had to cede membership to the EPC, would impact growth of British businesses. The post-Brexit perspective Since we left the EU, the government has been focusing on their trade reorientation strategy. As a competitive trading nation, it is vital the UK signs trade deals to restore our international reputation since Brexit. Agreements we have signed already have been concluded in quick succession, and do not necessarily have a significant impact on our economy. Our deal with New Zealand for example is estimated to have negligible impact on UK GDP. So while flying the flag for ‘Global Britain’ is good for our post-Brexit standing, complete reorientation is not going to solve the very real problem that businesses currently face, namely that they have many more trade related challenges than they did six years ago. From our surveys, directors have told us that the EU-UK relationship is a priority issue the government needs to address in order to support business. UK companies still rely on the long established links they have with EU markets, which are directly on our doorstep and with whom they have closer historical ties. The Indo-Pacific strategy will open up important opportunities for UK businesses, but the government must not forfeit the significance of our relationship with the EU in order to do so. www.iod.com/news/global-business/flying-the-flag-for-global-britain-how-valuable-is-cptpp-for-the-uk-really/If you think there is a major difference in "pooling Sovereignty" in one Trading Bloc versus another you are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land
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Post by lordb on Mar 27, 2023 16:19:35 GMT
That the UK has a Hindu Prime Minister and Scotland, a Muslim First Minister could be an interesting dynamic. I believe they both describe themselves as 'practicing', but I don't think you'd put either of them at the conservative / traditionalist end of their respective faiths. Probably a bit like 'practicing' Christians who only ever go to Midnight Mass. Their political views divide them far more than their religious beliefs. True could make a difference re Hindu Muslim relations in this country* if their relationship was seen to be healthy > or unhealthy for that matter * by this country I mean the UK ideally no one at all would give a buggery about it, Hindus would vote SNP if they want & Muslims vote Tory if they wants (& I'm sure many will for both) but all the same religious intolerance is a thing in this country across the board so anything that can be seen as a visible example of religion not getting inn the way could be a good thing
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Post by wannabee on Mar 27, 2023 16:28:51 GMT
Why would you find it strange that a Country that was taken out of a Trading Bloc against "The Will of its People" wants to gain its independence to rejoin that Trading Bloc? Now can you imagine a Country voting to leave a Trading Bloc with which it does most of its Trade with and then immediately wanting to join another Trading Bloc thousands of miles away. Now that would be Bat Shit Crazy Surely no Country would consider such insanity? www.bnnbloomberg.ca/uk-looks-to-imminently-join-trans-pacific-trading-block-1.1899412The original Scottish ref took place when the idea of uk leaving the eu was still fantasyland. And the EU stopped being the EEC a long time ago. So you can’t compare leaving a political union (where free trade is a major benefit) with joining any other trading blocs that don’t entail political union. There’s nothing batshit about that and I don’t think your point works. It only works if you view the EU as primarily a trading bloc, and the political union stuff irrelevant. Nobody in their right minds would’ve voted to leave if The EEC hadn’t become The EU. Perhaps you are young or have a short or selective memory One of the scare and effective tactics used by Better Together's Chairman Blair MacDougall was that if Scotland voted for Independence it would have to apply to become an EU Member, yet less than two years later it was taken out against the wishes of the Scottish People Not to repeat myself see my reply to Salop that there is little difference between EU and CPTPP The Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a Political Union of consent If any of the Member Countries withdraws its consent (Like UK leaving EU) then the Union is no more. For it to be anything different would be to turn a Democracy into a Dictatorship
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