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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 22, 2020 21:24:29 GMT
So you'd be happy for the restrictions to end tomorrow but you also think that the fella in Bolton who came back from holiday and didn't self isolate, should be thrown in jail? Think it was squeekster who said that Paul. Yes you're right mate. Apologies Franklin.
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Post by stevetheboater on Sept 22, 2020 21:26:05 GMT
I'm curious, to those saying we need to end restrictions, any chance you could indicate roughly how many more people you are prepared to have die who otherwise wouldn't, in order that you can go and watch football, visit the pub, take a foreign holiday etc. between now and say May next year, which is when we might have a vaccination programme under way? To help anyone wanting to put numbers on it, the excess death statistics for this year are freely available from Public Health England. 271049 people had died in England this year up to 4th September compared to the expected 217731 by the same date (source: fingertips.phe.org.uk/static-reports/mortality-surveillance/excess-mortality-in-england-latest.html#all-persons) so roughly 25% more people who have died this year than we would have expected to.
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Post by albundy on Sept 22, 2020 21:26:19 GMT
At some point it will need to end if it were tomorrow then I'd have no issues. Until they are though I will follow the rules. Yes, when we have a vaccine or cure. Until then we have to be able to trust each other and until that time the rules will have to be stricter and stricter to keep everyone safe. You are in for a long wait then
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Post by Squeekster on Sept 22, 2020 21:35:33 GMT
Think it was squeekster who said that Paul. Yes you're right mate. Apologies Franklin. Yes Paul twas me and I stand by that, if he blatantly broke rules and infected 100's of people and could potentially infect someone who could die he deserves the book thrown at him as this was totally preventable. On the subject I don't want to go back under the current circumstances, going the match is all about meeting up with family and friends drinking, chatting enjoying the day and with the restriction's that would allow you to go just wouldn't make it enjoyable, we have been watching it together in a garden with a safe distance and bringing our own drinks and snacks, also groups of less than 6.
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 22, 2020 21:49:32 GMT
Yes, when we have a vaccine or cure. Until then we have to be able to trust each other and until that time the rules will have to be stricter and stricter to keep everyone safe. You are in for a long wait then I agree although I think there is some hope on the vaccine which may not prevent it but like the flu jab help to make it less serious. My point is that if people won't accept responsibility for their behaviour and flout the guidelines then we cannot hope to get back to life with a resemblance of normality until such time as there is a vaccine. We were on our way back, people were beginning to feel things like going to football matches were not too far off but unfortunately because too many people didn't wear masks, didn't self isolate or quarantine, didn't wash their hands properly, didn't social distance, held raves and parties that chance has been taken from us.
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Post by Squeekster on Sept 22, 2020 22:08:26 GMT
You are in for a long wait then I agree although I think there is some hope on the vaccine which may not prevent it but like the flu jab help to make it less serious. My point is that if people won't accept responsibility for their behaviour and flout the guidelines then we cannot hope to get back to life with a resemblance of normality until such time as there is a vaccine. We were on our way back, people were beginning to feel things like going to football matches were not too far off but unfortunately because too many people didn't wear masks, didn't self isolate or quarantine, didn't wash their hands properly, didn't social distance, held raves and parties that chance has been taken from us. You go to an away game and half time you go down for a drink and at most games a group of men usually decide that its funny to throw full pints of beer in the air and soak everyone and this is in normal circumstances!
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Sept 22, 2020 22:14:54 GMT
I'm curious, to those saying we need to end restrictions, any chance you could indicate roughly how many more people you are prepared to have die who otherwise wouldn't, in order that you can go and watch football, visit the pub, take a foreign holiday etc. between now and say May next year, which is when we might have a vaccination programme under way? To help anyone wanting to put numbers on it, the excess death statistics for this year are freely available from Public Health England. 271049 people had died in England this year up to 4th September compared to the expected 217731 by the same date (source: fingertips.phe.org.uk/static-reports/mortality-surveillance/excess-mortality-in-england-latest.html#all-persons) so roughly 25% more people who have died this year than we would have expected to. Long-term, as many (or more) people may die non-COVID deaths as a result of the restrictions. I imagine suicides will increase, and people aren't getting treated for life-threatening illnesses such as cancer, for example e.g. www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045(20)30388-0/fulltext. New illnesses and problems aren't getting diagnosed. I've had seemingly relatively minor health issues that may become major issues if they haven't already due to the restrictions on seeing doctors (such as a swollen finger that became a swollen arm three months later, with no doctor inspecting the finger/hand/arm as the swelling progressed). I don't think restrictions should be ended, but that what's needed is a more balanced and sensible approach from the government who have been appalling (not setting a good example to everyone, for a start). To remain on topic, football (and other outdoor events) at the capacities that were being talked about seemed very low risk to me - avoiding any cramped concourses and remaining outside apart from toilet visits. Certainly lower risk than a lot of indoor activities that have been allowed, such as visiting pubs. And bizarrely allowing fans in to watch snooker in a venue that's known for how compact it is. No one would be forced to watch live football, and live football is a great escape for many people. The longer restrictions go on, the bigger the mental health issues at the end of it all = more suffering, more strain on an NHS that was barely fit for purpose pre-COVID and more deaths. Don't think I'm taking COVID lightly. I do not want to catch it. A less scatter-gun and more sensible approach from the top is needed.
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Post by franklin on Sept 22, 2020 23:25:16 GMT
At some point it will need to end if it were tomorrow then I'd have no issues. Until they are though I will follow the rules. So you'd be happy for the restrictions to end tomorrow but you also think that the fella in Bolton who came back from holiday and didn't self isolate, should be thrown in jail? Not me 🙂 No probs.
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Post by franklin on Sept 22, 2020 23:31:37 GMT
Yes you're right mate. Apologies Franklin. Yes Paul twas me and I stand by that, if he blatantly broke rules and infected 100's of people and could potentially infect someone who could die he deserves the book thrown at him as this was totally preventable. On the subject I don't want to go back under the current circumstances, going the match is all about meeting up with family and friends drinking, chatting enjoying the day and with the restriction's that would allow you to go just wouldn't make it enjoyable, we have been watching it together in a garden with a safe distance and bringing our own drinks and snacks, also groups of less than 6. Just on that bloke from Bolton who infected 500 I'd like to know how that happened, did he directly infect 500 or did others pass it on. I would have thought it was the latter but it begs the question what precautions did they take and what responsibility lies with those who passed it on. Did they wash their hands were they wearing masks were they observing social distancing etc.
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Post by franklin on Sept 22, 2020 23:51:22 GMT
It wouldn't be for one or two seasons though, it would have to be an ongoing thing otherwise there is very little benefit to doing it. You couldn'treally change the season prize money for a couple of seasons and the impact of doing so wouldn't come into play until the end of the season. It would not need to be an "ongoing thing" at the sort of level which is needed at the moment. This Pandemic poses unique problems in my life time - and I am 74. Drastic measures are needed if the league system in England to survive it. As a poster earlier has said, the failure of our (world beating ) test and trace system has made a bad situation far worse. There will be some ongoing problems after the pandemic is over - because the present system does have flaws. But any redistribution going forwards would not need to be at anything like the level needed now to help the system survive the pandemic. Sometime bad things happen despite your best intentions as you well know. Don't take any offence because there is no intention to do so im just making a point. You're 74 and suffer with diabetes and had to be rescued from a mountain a week or so ago. Was that negligence or irresponsibility on your part or just bad luck. Should you really be up mountains or should you stay on the pier at bowness sucking a lolly. Of course you should do as you see fit and I see no reason to deny you that choice. You can't live in a bubble of fear you make the best of what you have, prepare and take responsibility for you and others. I've said many times I've obeyed the rules and taken responsibility to protect my family and others. So knowing there is a virus out there if you're stupid and selfish as to risk others then you should be punished. However I see no reason why I cant choose to do as I please taking precautions as necessary. I want to be able to watch football knowing I'll wear a mask stay away from others as best I can to minimise the risk. I not making anyone do anything but I want a choice. Just because I want restrictions lifted doesn’t mean I'll be holding wild parties or coughing in faces it means I know the risk will take care and responsibility for my own actions. If the selfish stupid ones get ill tough shit but the few are spoiling it for the many and that's not right. Lifting restrictions doesn't mean giving the all clear everything is fine it means short yourselves out like grown ups. I'll add this its up to "us" to look after each other i spend as much time as I can in Germany and if you're not wearing a mask when required you get told in no uncertain terms to put one on. Not by the authorities but by other members of the public and until "we" take responsibility in policing masks nothing will change. Things should be opened up but with masks worn it's not hard to do no mask no entry.
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Post by stevetheboater on Sept 23, 2020 6:17:54 GMT
No one would be forced to watch live football, and live football is a great escape for many people. I'd have no problem if people who wanted to go to football and take the risk of infection could then be isolated from the rest of us for a fortnight, rather like travellers returning from abroad, but it can't/won't happen. This isn't about is deciding what risk we want to take for ourselves, it is about what risk we are prepared to inflict on those we come into contact with in the pursuit of our own pleasure. Hence the importance of masks, they are there to protect other people from us, not the other way around.
Video footage I've seen of test events shows that people are congregating and ignoring social distancing rules, particularly when exiting. We have already seen local spikes linked to the recent Doncaster races and I'm struggling to come up with a reason that that the same wouldn't happen with football.
Noting your other point about lockdown has increased non-COVID related deaths, yes agreed they are happening, but statistically they are a much smaller group. The link I quoted puts numbers onto it if you're interested.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2020 6:52:33 GMT
From today's Guardian, I'm sure the lower leagues where you spent a lot of your playing career appreciate your solidarity Sean:
Frank Lampard, Chelsea’s manager, said the Premier League should step in to help out. “It’s important the Premier League as a collective looks at supporting the Football League, the leagues below and grassroots football,” he said. “Because that’s the base of why we’re all here.”
The Burnley manager, Sean Dyche, offered a dissenting view, saying the Premier League should not necessarily help. “If you are going to apply that rule of thumb, does that mean every hedge fund manager that is incredibly successful, are they going to filter that down to the hedge fund managers that are not so successful?”
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Post by lawrieleslie on Sept 23, 2020 7:01:38 GMT
Yes Paul twas me and I stand by that, if he blatantly broke rules and infected 100's of people and could potentially infect someone who could die he deserves the book thrown at him as this was totally preventable. On the subject I don't want to go back under the current circumstances, going the match is all about meeting up with family and friends drinking, chatting enjoying the day and with the restriction's that would allow you to go just wouldn't make it enjoyable, we have been watching it together in a garden with a safe distance and bringing our own drinks and snacks, also groups of less than 6. Just on that bloke from Bolton who infected 500 I'd like to know how that happened, did he directly infect 500 or did others pass it on. I would have thought it was the latter but it begs the question what precautions did they take and what responsibility lies with those who passed it on. Did they wash their hands were they wearing masks were they observing social distancing etc. This is where the so-called R rate kicks in. If he only affected 5 of his mates on the pub crawl and they infected another 5 each on the same evening and then those infected past it on to another 2 each next day ...so on and so forth. The numbers ramp up very quickly. You’re right though, if they all had been practicing Covid restrictions that little spread could easily have been curtailed.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Sept 23, 2020 7:04:00 GMT
From today's Guardian, I'm sure the lower leagues where you spent a lot of your playing career appreciate your solidarity Sean: Frank Lampard, Chelsea’s manager, said the Premier League should step in to help out. “It’s important the Premier League as a collective looks at supporting the Football League, the leagues below and grassroots football,” he said. “Because that’s the base of why we’re all here.” The Burnley manager, Sean Dyche, offered a dissenting view, saying the Premier League should not necessarily help. “If you are going to apply that rule of thumb, does that mean every hedge fund manager that is incredibly successful, are they going to filter that down to the hedge fund managers that are not so successful?” What a terrible example to use by Dyche there.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2020 7:30:58 GMT
From today's Guardian, I'm sure the lower leagues where you spent a lot of your playing career appreciate your solidarity Sean: Frank Lampard, Chelsea’s manager, said the Premier League should step in to help out. “It’s important the Premier League as a collective looks at supporting the Football League, the leagues below and grassroots football,” he said. “Because that’s the base of why we’re all here.” The Burnley manager, Sean Dyche, offered a dissenting view, saying the Premier League should not necessarily help. “If you are going to apply that rule of thumb, does that mean every hedge fund manager that is incredibly successful, are they going to filter that down to the hedge fund managers that are not so successful?” What a terrible example to use by Dyche there. He picked the only group of people more disliked than Premier League footballers
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Post by Veritas on Sept 23, 2020 7:41:34 GMT
What a terrible example to use by Dyche there. He picked the only group of people more disliked than Premier League footballers I disliked Dyche before this now he is firmly in the Wenger and Warnock grouping.
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 23, 2020 8:20:53 GMT
Yes Paul twas me and I stand by that, if he blatantly broke rules and infected 100's of people and could potentially infect someone who could die he deserves the book thrown at him as this was totally preventable. On the subject I don't want to go back under the current circumstances, going the match is all about meeting up with family and friends drinking, chatting enjoying the day and with the restriction's that would allow you to go just wouldn't make it enjoyable, we have been watching it together in a garden with a safe distance and bringing our own drinks and snacks, also groups of less than 6. Just on that bloke from Bolton who infected 500 I'd like to know how that happened, did he directly infect 500 or did others pass it on. I would have thought it was the latter but it begs the question what precautions did they take and what responsibility lies with those who passed it on. Did they wash their hands were they wearing masks were they observing social distancing etc. The problem is that every person he infected in the pub went home to a family, possibly with school age children going on the school bus, being in a classroom with 30 other kids and at least 2 adults, or living with people who work in shops where they meet several others. Unlike him they would not have to quarantine and would be unaware that they had been in the same place as someone who should have been quarantining. We all have become a bit lax thinking the worst is over but this should be the wake up call that we need. There have been so many people I've heard say in the media that nobody checks that you are quarantining so you can get away with it. And that is the whole point, we are not a police state, we should not need to be forced, we should have a conscience and follow the guidelines to keep even people we don't know safe.
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Post by spiderpuss on Sept 23, 2020 8:22:07 GMT
He picked the only group of people more disliked than Premier League footballers I disliked Dyche before this now he is firmly in the Wenger and Warnock grouping. I've not disliked Dyche, I admired him for prolonging Tone's pluggers for a good few years when our bluffers of managers didn't have a clue. However he's come over as a bit of whopper with that comment. Dover Athletic or Fleetwood isn't a "hedge fund"! Perhaps the lack of "hedge fund investment" in Bunlee will see them join the rest of the soup this year? Here's hoping.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2020 8:22:32 GMT
From today's Guardian, I'm sure the lower leagues where you spent a lot of your playing career appreciate your solidarity Sean: Frank Lampard, Chelsea’s manager, said the Premier League should step in to help out. “It’s important the Premier League as a collective looks at supporting the Football League, the leagues below and grassroots football,” he said. “Because that’s the base of why we’re all here.” The Burnley manager, Sean Dyche, offered a dissenting view, saying the Premier League should not necessarily help. “If you are going to apply that rule of thumb, does that mean every hedge fund manager that is incredibly successful, are they going to filter that down to the hedge fund managers that are not so successful?” Spot the closet Tory. Twat.
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Post by thehoof on Sept 23, 2020 8:22:37 GMT
The thing for me is just that the longer I go without attending the actual game, the less I find that I miss it. Instead of being “the event” of the week, even now it’s just become ( if there was a game on), “I might go”. Another 6 months and I imagine I will have lost all interest in the attending of any game. It’s different for everyone of course, but football isn’t really that necessary is it?
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Post by spiderpuss on Sept 23, 2020 8:25:37 GMT
The thing for me is just that the longer I go without attending the actual game, the less I find that I miss it. Instead of being “the event” of the week, even now it’s just become ( if there was a game on), “I might go”. Another 6 months and I imagine I will have lost all interest in the attending of any game. It’s different for everyone of course, but football isn’t really that necessary is it? It's certainly a feeling a good few many have. The amount of other things I'm starting to get involved in is dramatic. More online-gaming, communities and some real-world stuff such as dratted DIY. That's just after a few months. Will I be interested in leaving that stuff once football really restarts?
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Post by march4 on Sept 23, 2020 8:26:07 GMT
Just on that bloke from Bolton who infected 500 I'd like to know how that happened, did he directly infect 500 or did others pass it on. I would have thought it was the latter but it begs the question what precautions did they take and what responsibility lies with those who passed it on. Did they wash their hands were they wearing masks were they observing social distancing etc. The problem is that every person he infected in the pub went home to a family, possibly with school age children going on the school bus, being in a classroom with 30 other kids and at least 2 adults, or living with people who work in shops where they meet several others. Unlike him they would not have to quarantine and would be unaware that they had been in the same place as someone who should have been quarantining. We all have become a bit lax thinking the worst is over but this should be the wake up call that we need. There have been so many people I've heard say in the media that nobody checks that you are quarantining so you can get away with it. And that is the whole point, we are not a police state, we should not need to be forced, we should have a conscience and follow the guidelines to keep even people we don't know safe. Did they not show in USA that one infected man attended an event attended by others and over time a quarter of a million people were eventually infected with many dying.
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 23, 2020 8:28:42 GMT
From today's Guardian, I'm sure the lower leagues where you spent a lot of your playing career appreciate your solidarity Sean: Frank Lampard, Chelsea’s manager, said the Premier League should step in to help out. “It’s important the Premier League as a collective looks at supporting the Football League, the leagues below and grassroots football,” he said. “Because that’s the base of why we’re all here.” The Burnley manager, Sean Dyche, offered a dissenting view, saying the Premier League should not necessarily help. “If you are going to apply that rule of thumb, does that mean every hedge fund manager that is incredibly successful, are they going to filter that down to the hedge fund managers that are not so successful?” I can remember us playing against Burnley and them not being able to name a full bench of substitutes because of their financial situation. I think this was the season before Cotterill took over, when they inexplicably spent a fortune in wages on David May. This is an uncommonly high ebb for Burnley and, much like Bolton, Blackburn and co., fortunes can change very easily. Nothing lasts forever and it only takes a few mistakes for them to find themselves languishing in the second division with us, or the third and fourth divisions with Bolton and Portsmouth. At that point, they might regret not pushing for more generosity.
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Post by franklin on Sept 23, 2020 8:59:21 GMT
Just on that bloke from Bolton who infected 500 I'd like to know how that happened, did he directly infect 500 or did others pass it on. I would have thought it was the latter but it begs the question what precautions did they take and what responsibility lies with those who passed it on. Did they wash their hands were they wearing masks were they observing social distancing etc. The problem is that every person he infected in the pub went home to a family, possibly with school age children going on the school bus, being in a classroom with 30 other kids and at least 2 adults, or living with people who work in shops where they meet several others. Unlike him they would not have to quarantine and would be unaware that they had been in the same place as someone who should have been quarantining. We all have become a bit lax thinking the worst is over but this should be the wake up call that we need. There have been so many people I've heard say in the media that nobody checks that you are quarantining so you can get away with it. And that is the whole point, we are not a police state, we should not need to be forced, we should have a conscience and follow the guidelines to keep even people we don't know safe. I understand your explanation but it doesn't address their role in it in the pub. They were obviously not washing hands, or social distancing or being careful they all knew there is a virus out there if they were careful then how did they catch it from him. I'll suggest they were ignoring the advice and became complacent. He didn't infect them directly they would have contributed to their own infection. And that's a big difference and my point. Ignore the advice knowing there was a risk they are culpable also. Which is exactly what was said in the report not just his fault others were to blaim also. Its nothing to do with opening times or going to football it down to people. Im aware of whats going in and act accordingly so why can't I go to Stoke?? Ill wear a mask keep my distance so whats the issue....none so open them up I can go and do anything else.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 23, 2020 9:04:03 GMT
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 23, 2020 9:45:50 GMT
The problem is that every person he infected in the pub went home to a family, possibly with school age children going on the school bus, being in a classroom with 30 other kids and at least 2 adults, or living with people who work in shops where they meet several others. Unlike him they would not have to quarantine and would be unaware that they had been in the same place as someone who should have been quarantining. We all have become a bit lax thinking the worst is over but this should be the wake up call that we need. There have been so many people I've heard say in the media that nobody checks that you are quarantining so you can get away with it. And that is the whole point, we are not a police state, we should not need to be forced, we should have a conscience and follow the guidelines to keep even people we don't know safe. I understand your explanation but it doesn't address their role in it in the pub. They were obviously not washing hands, or social distancing or being careful they all knew there is a virus out there if they were careful then how did they catch it from him. I'll suggest they were ignoring the advice and became complacent. He didn't infect them directly they would have contributed to their own infection. And that's a big difference and my point. Ignore the advice knowing there was a risk they are culpable also. Which is exactly what was said in the report not just his fault others were to blaim also. Its nothing to do with opening times or going to football it down to people. Im aware of whats going in and act accordingly so why can't I go to Stoke?? Ill wear a mask keep my distance so whats the issue....none so open them up I can go and do anything else. The main way of transferring the virus from one person to another is through water droplets in our breath. The thing is if we are two metres apart especially outside by the time the air reaches another person the water droplets have dissipated enough not to be infectious. However if we are close or exhale with force such as shouting or singing the water droplets reach other people before they dissipate. My guess is that it is almost impossible to go to a football match and not shout even if you can stop singing. To be honest I fail to see how 10pm closing makes pubs safe but think it is probably a balancing act to keep the businesses going. By shutting at 10 and by having service to table only I suppose you reduce the chance of people getting drunk and the resultant behaviour and also make it far more difficult to go on a pub crawl. The wearing of masks does not stop you from catching the disease as the water drops will still land on your eyes and on your mask which may then transfer to your hands. What masks do is stop the exhaled air from an infected person from spreading into the air. We wear a mask to keep others safe, not ourselves in the hope that everyone else does the same. By the way wearing gloves does absolutely nothing. Washing hands is far more effective as gloves get just as infected as your hands and you are far less likely to wash them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2020 10:06:06 GMT
From today's Guardian, I'm sure the lower leagues where you spent a lot of your playing career appreciate your solidarity Sean: Frank Lampard, Chelsea’s manager, said the Premier League should step in to help out. “It’s important the Premier League as a collective looks at supporting the Football League, the leagues below and grassroots football,” he said. “Because that’s the base of why we’re all here.” The Burnley manager, Sean Dyche, offered a dissenting view, saying the Premier League should not necessarily help. “If you are going to apply that rule of thumb, does that mean every hedge fund manager that is incredibly successful, are they going to filter that down to the hedge fund managers that are not so successful?” I can remember us playing against Burnley and them not being able to name a full bench of substitutes because of their financial situation. I think this was the season before Cotterill took over, when they inexplicably spent a fortune in wages on David May. This is an uncommonly high ebb for Burnley and, much like Bolton, Blackburn and co., fortunes can change very easily. Nothing lasts forever and it only takes a few mistakes for them to find themselves languishing in the second division with us, or the third and fourth divisions with Bolton and Portsmouth. At that point, they might regret not pushing for more generosity. Most reasonable Burnley fans - not unlike ourselves - will realise they're only a bad summer of recruitment or an injury crisis away from being back in The Championship. Talk about getting the tone wrong......
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 23, 2020 10:30:34 GMT
Another interesting point arose last night in that Spurs paid for Orient players to be tested which ultimately led to the postponement of the match after several players tested positive. West Ham offered to pay for Hull players to be tested but the offer was declined and the match went ahead with West Ham playing without two players and their manager who all got positive results just before the match. I've never been so glad to see West Ham hammer another team. How can Hull decline the offer? I know West Ham offered in order to safe guard their own players but surely Hull should have the same duty of care. It's another case of thinking of yourselves rather than others and if they are allowed to get away with it as the Orient chairman says, next time an offer is made he will refuse. I think we may start to see which clubs care for their staff.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 23, 2020 11:06:55 GMT
For anyone who is interested, the related issues of fans returning to grounds and the survival of our clubs if this goes on for months, was covered in an interview I did with Colin Murray on Radio 5 live late last night. Starts at 1:16:04 www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000mr9c
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Post by franklin on Sept 23, 2020 11:37:47 GMT
I understand your explanation but it doesn't address their role in it in the pub. They were obviously not washing hands, or social distancing or being careful they all knew there is a virus out there if they were careful then how did they catch it from him. I'll suggest they were ignoring the advice and became complacent. He didn't infect them directly they would have contributed to their own infection. And that's a big difference and my point. Ignore the advice knowing there was a risk they are culpable also. Which is exactly what was said in the report not just his fault others were to blaim also. Its nothing to do with opening times or going to football it down to people. Im aware of whats going in and act accordingly so why can't I go to Stoke?? Ill wear a mask keep my distance so whats the issue....none so open them up I can go and do anything else. The main way of transferring the virus from one person to another is through water droplets in our breath. The thing is if we are two metres apart especially outside by the time the air reaches another person the water droplets have dissipated enough not to be infectious. However if we are close or exhale with force such as shouting or singing the water droplets reach other people before they dissipate. My guess is that it is almost impossible to go to a football match and not shout even if you can stop singing. To be honest I fail to see how 10pm closing makes pubs safe but think it is probably a balancing act to keep the businesses going. By shutting at 10 and by having service to table only I suppose you reduce the chance of people getting drunk and the resultant behaviour and also make it far more difficult to go on a pub crawl. The wearing of masks does not stop you from catching the disease as the water drops will still land on your eyes and on your mask which may then transfer to your hands. What masks do is stop the exhaled air from an infected person from spreading into the air. We wear a mask to keep others safe, not ourselves in the hope that everyone else does the same. By the way wearing gloves does absolutely nothing. Washing hands is far more effective as gloves get just as infected as your hands and you are far less likely to wash them. Which is why masks are vital and wearing one should be mandatory for matches. There is no reason to deny sport fans when you can do everything else. Go to the pub/ restaurant and once sitted you can remove the mask, table service no standing at the bar etc. 10pm is nonsense if I'm careful and responsible i could live in a pub and have minimal risk. Wash hands keep my distance I'll be fine and that applies to everything and everyone so thats why I think restrictions should be lifted. Why are people being allowed entry into shops etc without being challenged over not wearing a mask they should be. Now I know some wouldn’t wash their hands or wear a mask if their life depends on it but they should be refused entry which would allow "us" to live our lives. Why should you or I be quarantined and denied access to matches because some knob head refuses to comply, simple don't let them in or on the bus or in the shop or anywhere without one. How do you differentiate between watching Stoke and going to the pub or the shop there is no difference and I'd argue football has less of a risk, open things up to people but with care and call out the idiots. We cant keep restricting for the few idiots for a few reasons, it will never end on that basis.
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