|
Post by danceswithclams on Sept 22, 2020 10:45:30 GMT
The tories will do nothing to help football, they're huntin' shootin' horse ridin' & if they fancy slumming it with the oiks golfin' types. I wonder if Stoke have access to an endless supply of game birds? They could release pheasants and partridge every day and invite fans to shoot them for a fee - one of the few sports that the government allows at the moment. They could even have deer stalking in the car parks and fox hunting (without killing the fox of course) at Clayton Woods. With a bit of imagination there is no reason why we can't get through this! Judging by all the weeds, overgrown hedges and verges and litter across this city ("we're encouraging biodiversity and not using Covid as an excuse to pocket your council tax money without providing the services you've paid for, honest" - Stoke on Trent City Council) there'll be plenty of deer and game birds (and vermin) roaming free before long. (Just as well really as when Brexit fully hits we'll probably have to resort to chasing boar across Lidl carpark with a makeshift harpoon in order to eat.)
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 22, 2020 10:47:08 GMT
Terrible situation now. Hard to see anything moving over the winter. So are we looking at spring? What a disaster. A calendar year without fans - how the hell can the lower leagues survive without billions of quid worth of help? It's about time some of that Premier League revenue was spent propping up the lower leagues rather than buying golden toilet seats for superagents. Not going to happen. And then they will start moaning about not having money despite their mad spending this summer.
|
|
|
Post by sheds1862 on Sept 22, 2020 10:48:57 GMT
Terrible situation now. Hard to see anything moving over the winter. So are we looking at spring? What a disaster. A calendar year without fans - how the hell can the lower leagues survive without billions of quid worth of help? It's about time some of that Premier League revenue was spent propping up the lower leagues rather than buying golden toilet seats for superagents. Honest question here not a pop at you. Would you have said this if we were still in The Premier ? Would you of been happy funding, Vale, Crewe, Morecambe etc etc .
|
|
|
Post by itsajoytobeapotter on Sept 22, 2020 10:51:22 GMT
The tories will do nothing to help football, they're huntin' shootin' horse ridin' & if they fancy slumming it with the oiks golfin' types. The problem is that football is perfectly capable of helping itself but the Premier League Clubs have all the money and seem intent on keeping it all for themselves.
|
|
|
Post by walton corner on Sept 22, 2020 10:58:39 GMT
What money does premier league have ..who knows ..every club is up to its neck in costs and are only a relegation away from big trouble ...so they won’t be helping smaller clubs they will look after themselves...our great game and league systems of so many clubs will disappear for years
|
|
|
Post by femark on Sept 22, 2020 11:04:33 GMT
The tories will do nothing to help football, they're huntin' shootin' horse ridin' & if they fancy slumming it with the oiks golfin' types. The problem is that football is perfectly capable of helping itself but the Premier League Clubs have all the money and seem intent on keeping it all for themselves. They're helping themselves because clubs are ran as a business. You don't see Ryanair bailing out Easyjet do you?
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 22, 2020 11:05:06 GMT
The tories will do nothing to help football, they're huntin' shootin' horse ridin' & if they fancy slumming it with the oiks golfin' types. The problem is that football is perfectly capable of helping itself but the Premier League Clubs have all the money and seem intent on keeping it all for themselves. Spot on. In the days before the Premier League, if something like this pandemic had arrived, the richer clubs would have been persuaded to subsidise the poorer clubs. Many fans these days probably don't realise that when I started watching football away teams got a percentage of the home team's gate receipts in league games - just as happens now in the case of cup games. So every season poorer clubs such as Stoke got significant windfall payments from their away games at clubs like Arsenal and Man United. Obviously this benefit was less in the lower divisions but, to be frank, players' wages were so little that it cost a pittance to keep a lower league club going in the days before player power arrived. My dad worked for what became BT - he was paid a decent wage but we weren't rich and didn't own a car (Triumph Herald) until I was in my teens. Yet my dad took home about as much as Stoke's first team players and Dennis Wilshaw the club captain was a neighbour. I often used to catch the bus back home from Stoke and see younger players queuing at the same bus stop. The Premier League has distorted incomes between it and the lower leagues so much that someone needs to step in and force some sort of cross subsidy between clubs during the pandemic if we are not to lose most clubs below the Championship.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Sept 22, 2020 11:14:12 GMT
It's about time some of that Premier League revenue was spent propping up the lower leagues rather than buying golden toilet seats for superagents. Honest question here not a pop at you. Would you have said this if we were still in The Premier ? Would you of been happy funding, Vale, Crewe, Morecambe etc etc . 100% yes
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 11:15:15 GMT
It's about time some of that Premier League revenue was spent propping up the lower leagues rather than buying golden toilet seats for superagents. Honest question here not a pop at you. Would you have said this if we were still in The Premier ? Would you of been happy funding, Vale, Crewe, Morecambe etc etc .Absolutely, 100%.
|
|
|
Post by AlliG on Sept 22, 2020 11:19:23 GMT
They need to bring out a streaming season ticket then. I’d rather my money go to the club but £10 per game is far too steep. The cost is reasonable if balanced against just how much a game actually costs each fan for every game The atmosphere on the streaming is so sterile however which makes it dull entertainment Surely some louder recorded crowd background noise could be used to create a bit more atmosphere Either just for those listening on the stream or also in the ground to create some atmosphere for the players If £10 helps keep the club going it’s fine This is the problem with streaming. The "value" of the stream is dependent on how many people get to watch the stream. I am a season ticket holder and live on my own. As such I feel that £10 for an away game stream is too much. However, for the home games I use my "support bubble" to watch in a socially distanced environment with 2 other season ticket holders. Compared to the £50+ a game between us when we are able to attend in person, £10 a stream then seems much better value for money. The problem for the club is that if you exclude all the people who are paying other sources for their streams, the income from the £10 official stream is likely to be barely making a dent in their running costs.
|
|
|
Post by AlliG on Sept 22, 2020 11:32:30 GMT
The problem is that football is perfectly capable of helping itself but the Premier League Clubs have all the money and seem intent on keeping it all for themselves. They're helping themselves because clubs are ran as a business. You don't see Ryanair bailing out Easyjet do you? Your argument doesn't really hold water when it comes to sport. To over simplify. If Easyjet go bust, Ryanair just hoover up all their customers. In a sporting environment if your competitors go bust, you have no one left to compete against. I wouldn't expect individual clubs to support the lower leagues, but, I would expect the FA & Premier League as the collective representatives of those clubs to consider all the options and then take the appropriate action, whatever that might be.
|
|
|
Post by somersetstokie on Sept 22, 2020 11:34:11 GMT
The problem is that football is perfectly capable of helping itself but the Premier League Clubs have all the money and seem intent on keeping it all for themselves. Spot on. In the days before the Premier League, if something like this pandemic had arrived, the richer clubs would have been persuaded to subsidise the poorer clubs. Many fans these days probably don't realise that when I started watching football away teams got a percentage of the home team's gate receipts in league games - just as happens in the case of up games.So every season poorer clubs such as Stoke got significant windfall payments from their away games at clubs like Arsenal and Man United. Obviously this benefit was less in the lower divisions but, to be frank, players' wages were so little that it cost a pittance to keep a lower league club going in the days before player power arrived. My dad worked for what became BT - he was paid a decent wage but we weren't rich and didn't own a car (Triumph Herald) until I was in my teens. Yet my dad took home about as much as Stoke's first team players. I often used to catch the bus back home from Stoke and see younger players queuing at the same bus stop. The Premier League has distorted incomes between it and the lower leagues so much that someone needs to step in and force some sort of cross subsidy between clubs during the pandemic if we are not to lose most clubs below the Championship. To be honest, not that I've ever given it much thought, but I still believed that the Away Club got some sort of match fee or share of the Gate receipts.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 22, 2020 11:41:59 GMT
Spot on. In the days before the Premier League, if something like this pandemic had arrived, the richer clubs would have been persuaded to subsidise the poorer clubs. Many fans these days probably don't realise that when I started watching football away teams got a percentage of the home team's gate receipts in league games - just as happens in the case of up games.So every season poorer clubs such as Stoke got significant windfall payments from their away games at clubs like Arsenal and Man United. Obviously this benefit was less in the lower divisions but, to be frank, players' wages were so little that it cost a pittance to keep a lower league club going in the days before player power arrived. My dad worked for what became BT - he was paid a decent wage but we weren't rich and didn't own a car (Triumph Herald) until I was in my teens. Yet my dad took home about as much as Stoke's first team players. I often used to catch the bus back home from Stoke and see younger players queuing at the same bus stop. The Premier League has distorted incomes between it and the lower leagues so much that someone needs to step in and force some sort of cross subsidy between clubs during the pandemic if we are not to lose most clubs below the Championship. To be honest, not that I've ever given it much thought, but I still believed that the Away Club got some sort of match fee or share of the Gate receipts. I'm not sure when the away club share of the gate receipts in league games was abandoned - I suspect it was in the 60s or 70s. Anyone know the answer?
|
|
|
Post by tpholloway1 on Sept 22, 2020 11:47:21 GMT
Spot on. In the days before the Premier League, if something like this pandemic had arrived, the richer clubs would have been persuaded to subsidise the poorer clubs. Many fans these days probably don't realise that when I started watching football away teams got a percentage of the home team's gate receipts in league games - just as happens in the case of up games.So every season poorer clubs such as Stoke got significant windfall payments from their away games at clubs like Arsenal and Man United. Obviously this benefit was less in the lower divisions but, to be frank, players' wages were so little that it cost a pittance to keep a lower league club going in the days before player power arrived. My dad worked for what became BT - he was paid a decent wage but we weren't rich and didn't own a car (Triumph Herald) until I was in my teens. Yet my dad took home about as much as Stoke's first team players. I often used to catch the bus back home from Stoke and see younger players queuing at the same bus stop. The Premier League has distorted incomes between it and the lower leagues so much that someone needs to step in and force some sort of cross subsidy between clubs during the pandemic if we are not to lose most clubs below the Championship. To be honest, not that I've ever given it much thought, but I still believed that the Away Club got some sort of match fee or share of the Gate receipts. I can still remember some of the head shaking that went on at the Vic when the attendance was announced. ahem.
|
|
|
Post by femark on Sept 22, 2020 11:48:40 GMT
They're helping themselves because clubs are ran as a business. You don't see Ryanair bailing out Easyjet do you? Your argument doesn't really hold water when it comes to sport. To over simplify. If Easyjet go bust, Ryanair just hoover up all their customers. In a sporting environment if your competitors go bust, you have no one left to compete against. I wouldn't expect individual clubs to support the lower leagues, but, I would expect the FA & Premier League as the collective representatives of those clubs to consider all the options and then take the appropriate action, whatever that might be. But not every club is going to go bust? Some will go bust/into administration but the league structure will remain and continue as normal. What can the FA/Premier League do currently to make a difference? The only was they can make a difference is by distributing the prize money more evenly, but the adverse of this is reduced competitiveness.
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 22, 2020 11:56:32 GMT
Nah, fuck this. How much are we going to let it just completely fuck everything? If fans want to go to games, let them. I'm not saying max capacity and bollocks to any rules, but can you imagine how many clubs this is going to kill? It needs sorting. I'm in no way in Covid denial, but it's outdoors, and in stadiums like ours you could safely place a few thousand in the ground.
They need to get on with trying to get something back to normal. If it's going to get us anyway, we might as well get it watching a game of football.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 22, 2020 11:57:23 GMT
Your argument doesn't really hold water when it comes to sport. To over simplify. If Easyjet go bust, Ryanair just hoover up all their customers. In a sporting environment if your competitors go bust, you have no one left to compete against. I wouldn't expect individual clubs to support the lower leagues, but, I would expect the FA & Premier League as the collective representatives of those clubs to consider all the options and then take the appropriate action, whatever that might be. But not every club is going to go bust? Some will go bust/into administration but the league structure will remain and continue as normal. What can the FA/Premier League do currently to make a difference? The only was they can make a difference is by distributing the prize money more evenly, but the adverse of this is reduced competitiveness. Is reduced competitiveness for one or two seasons such a bad thing if it means the survival of our lower league system? The great thing about our league (and non league) system, is that over 95% of the population live within reasonable travel distance of a professional or semi professional football club. That simply doesn't happen in most other countries and we are hugely lucky that it happens in England.
|
|
|
Post by Olgrligm on Sept 22, 2020 12:00:13 GMT
It's about time some of that Premier League revenue was spent propping up the lower leagues rather than buying golden toilet seats for superagents. Honest question here not a pop at you. Would you have said this if we were still in The Premier ? Would you of been happy funding, Vale, Crewe, Morecambe etc etc . I would like to think so. The exorbitant wealth and wasteful spending of the PL never sat comfortably with me when we were up there, and we know what it's like to be a club on a low ebb stuck in the third division with big question marks over the future.
|
|
|
Post by sheds1862 on Sept 22, 2020 12:04:27 GMT
Honest question here not a pop at you. Would you have said this if we were still in The Premier ? Would you of been happy funding, Vale, Crewe, Morecambe etc etc . I would like to think so. The exorbitant wealth and wasteful spending of the PL never sat comfortably with me when we were up there, and we know what it's like to be a club on a low ebb stuck in the third division with big question marks over the future. I'm with you totally but we've all seen the F*** the Vale and F*** Crewe posts and the rot in hell and hope they go bust etc. Personally i'd never like to see that, and when you get the likes of Bale reportedly on 600 grand a week shared between Spurs and Real the whole thing is farcical. In fact the money Lineker earns could run Morecambe for whole season. Something somewhere has to change.
|
|
|
Post by LL Cool Dave on Sept 22, 2020 12:05:03 GMT
Football is absolutely fucked.
|
|
|
Post by telfordstokie on Sept 22, 2020 12:07:44 GMT
Nah, fuck this. How much are we going to let it just completely fuck everything? If fans want to go to games, let them. I'm not saying max capacity and bollocks to any rules, but can you imagine how many clubs this is going to kill? It needs sorting. I'm in no way in Covid denial, but it's outdoors, and in stadiums like ours you could safely place a few thousand in the ground. They need to get on with trying to get something back to normal. If it's going to get us anyway, we might as well get it watching a game of football. Speaking as someone whose asthma is serious enough that I was on the verge of being in the shielding category, I think I agree with this. The first lockdown made sense as we didn’t know what we were dealing with and the fear was we could have ended up like northern Italy with not enough ventilators for patients. We now have social distancing and better hygiene standards plus know Covid doesn’t spread as much outdoors - I personally feel there is less risk at a football match with a few hundred other supporters sat apart from each other than going to the supermarket.
|
|
|
Post by Scouse on Sept 22, 2020 12:11:06 GMT
Believe it was 1983 when Gate receipts rules were changed ( an era when FV heavily impacted on attendances , some clubs very much so )
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 22, 2020 12:17:16 GMT
Believe it was 1983 when Gate receipts rules were changed ( an era when FV heavily impacted on attendances , some clubs very much so ) Cheers - a bit later than I thought.
|
|
|
Post by AlliG on Sept 22, 2020 12:17:40 GMT
Your argument doesn't really hold water when it comes to sport. To over simplify. If Easyjet go bust, Ryanair just hoover up all their customers. In a sporting environment if your competitors go bust, you have no one left to compete against. I wouldn't expect individual clubs to support the lower leagues, but, I would expect the FA & Premier League as the collective representatives of those clubs to consider all the options and then take the appropriate action, whatever that might be. But not every club is going to go bust? Some will go bust/into administration but the league structure will remain and continue as normal. What can the FA/Premier League do currently to make a difference? The only was they can make a difference is by distributing the prize money more evenly, but the adverse of this is reduced competitiveness. How does distributing the prize money more evenly make for reduced competitiveness? Surely it would have the opposite effect? How many clubs going bust is too many in your world? How would you feel if it was your club going down the pan? (It is one of the reasons why the FA, Premier League & EFL need to operate above the level of naked self-interest) The risk at the moment is that 20 - 30 league clubs could fold if there were no fans this season. In that scenario do you think that the league structure would be able to continue as normal? Relatively speaking the amount required to enable the clubs to survive is not that great. One Timo Werner or Kai Havertz would allow Division 1 & 2 clubs to at least survive this season. A levy on transfer fees / agents fees (applying to both Premier League & EFL) might be a good place to start. .
|
|
|
Post by ravey123 on Sept 22, 2020 12:24:08 GMT
They need to bring out a streaming season ticket then. I’d rather my money go to the club but £10 per game is far too steep. I've been prattling on about this exact thing for bloody weeks. Should be £5 per game but you MUST buy all 44 games (ie what's left of the season) - total price £220. £110 goes to your club and £5 to each of the other 22 clubs you are to play away from home - simples. You don't have to be on a multi million pound contract Mr Scholes to come up with a good, sensible and fair idea.
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Sept 22, 2020 12:26:31 GMT
No football (and other live sport), concerts, theatres, weddings restricted to 15 guests, holidays aren't worth bothering with.
The very fabric of society is being ripped to shreds. These are worrying times.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 12:26:55 GMT
They need to bring out a streaming season ticket then. I’d rather my money go to the club but £10 per game is far too steep. I've been prattling on about this exact thing for bloody weeks. Should be £5 per game but you MUST buy all 44 games (ie what's left of the season) - total price £220. £110 goes to your club and £5 to each of the other 22 clubs you are to play away from home - simples. You don't have to be on a multi million pound contract Mr Scholes to come up with a good, sensible and fair idea. £10 is a fair deal per game all things considered, especially when you are saving money on travel to and from the game, parking, any food and drink you'd pay over the odds for etc. It's just the ability to buy all games, or half games at least as a block, instead of having to log in and buy individual games that would be a useful addition IMO. Come on, a tenner is fair isn't it? and yes, I have changed my mind from previous...
|
|
|
Post by femark on Sept 22, 2020 12:31:47 GMT
But not every club is going to go bust? Some will go bust/into administration but the league structure will remain and continue as normal. What can the FA/Premier League do currently to make a difference? The only was they can make a difference is by distributing the prize money more evenly, but the adverse of this is reduced competitiveness. Is reduced competitiveness for one or two seasons such a bad thing if it means the survival of our lower league system? The great thing about our league (and non league) system, is that over 95% of the population live within reasonable travel distance of a professional or semi professional football club. That simply doesn't happen in most other countries and we are hugely lucky that it happens in England. It wouldn't be for one or two seasons though, it would have to be an ongoing thing otherwise there is very little benefit to doing it. You couldn'treally change the season prize money for a couple of seasons and the impact of doing so wouldn't come into play until the end of the season.
|
|
|
Post by Olgrligm on Sept 22, 2020 12:39:11 GMT
Nah, fuck this. How much are we going to let it just completely fuck everything? If fans want to go to games, let them. I'm not saying max capacity and bollocks to any rules, but can you imagine how many clubs this is going to kill? It needs sorting. I'm in no way in Covid denial, but it's outdoors, and in stadiums like ours you could safely place a few thousand in the ground. They need to get on with trying to get something back to normal. If it's going to get us anyway, we might as well get it watching a game of football. Speaking as someone whose asthma is serious enough that I was on the verge of being in the shielding category, I think I agree with this. The first lockdown made sense as we didn’t know what we were dealing with and the fear was we could have ended up like northern Italy with not enough ventilators for patients. We now have social distancing and better hygiene standards plus know Covid doesn’t spread as much outdoors - I personally feel there is less risk at a football match with a few hundred other supporters sat apart from each other than going to the supermarket. I think there is a core point here that with all of these different activities, such as watching football matches and so on, there is some mitigation in place that massively reduces the risk of the virus spreading to a point that the risk is much lower than in what we know are the two places where the virus will spread like wildfire: schools and universities. If schools and universities are going to be kept open by government decree, then all of these other measures are just about trying to sweep up the mess caused by them being open.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 12:53:11 GMT
If the track, trace and test system in this country hadn't been such a monumental clusterfuck, make no mistake about it there would be several thousand of us sat in the ground for the Birmingham game in a fortnights time.....
|
|