|
Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 20, 2020 11:31:11 GMT
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Oct 20, 2020 11:50:01 GMT
I don’t think the Tories in Westminster have a clue about how to counter the SNP. Nor, sadly, do Labour. The Union will rest, and quite rightly so, on what the parties in Scotland do. In fairness to the Tories they’ve ditched the lamentable Jackson Carlaw which means a return to front line politics of Ruth Davidson who can at least give Nicola Sturgeon a run for her money. Whether Carlaw’s replacement, Douglas Ross, is any good only time will tell. At least he has the advantage of not being Jackson Carlaw. Labour, on the other hand, have decided to stick with Richard Leonard, the latest in a line of insipid leaders north of the border. This is not good news for the Union. Hardly anyone knows who the he is, and those who do don’t care who he is. Labour need a new leader in Scotland to re-invigorate their voters who have moved to the SNP in recent years. If Labour isn’t credible, they allow the SNP to paint Independence as a battle between heartless Westminster Tories (as illustrated by bumbling Boris) against empathetic nationalism (typified by Saint Nicola). The LibDems are an irrelevance. Specifically and generally. As things stand the biggest challenge to independence looks like coming from the SNP themselves who are currently embarked on a civil war as well as demonstrating a level of incompetence in government as bad as anything seen since devolution. It’s a bit of a miserable state of affairs when you are relying on your opponents to score own goals to win you the game!
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 20, 2020 12:08:33 GMT
I don’t think the Tories in Westminster have a clue about how to counter the SNP. Nor, sadly, do Labour. The Union will rest, and quite rightly so, on what the parties in Scotland do. In fairness to the Tories they’ve ditched the lamentable Jackson Carlaw which means a return to front line politics of Ruth Davidson who can at least give Nicola Sturgeon a run for her money. Whether Carlaw’s replacement, Douglas Ross, is any good only time will tell. At least he has the advantage of not being Jackson Carlaw. Labour, on the other hand, have decided to stick with Richard Leonard, the latest in a line of insipid leaders north of the border. This is not good news for the Union. Hardly anyone knows who the he is, and those who do don’t care who he is. Labour need a new leader in Scotland to re-invigorate their voters who have moved to the SNP in recent years. If Labour isn’t credible, they allow the SNP to paint Independence as a battle between heartless Westminster Tories (as illustrated by bumbling Boris) against empathetic nationalism (typified by Saint Nicola). The LibDems are an irrelevance. Specifically and generally. As things stand the biggest challenge to independence looks like coming from the SNP themselves who are currently embarked on a civil war as well as demonstrating a level of incompetence in government as bad as anything seen since devolution. It’s a bit of a miserable state of affairs when you are relying on your opponents to score own goals to win you the game! It was the bit about accepting that 'Brexit had changed the game' that caught my eye and the basic maths of Remainers moving to Yes outnumbering Leavers moving to No. It's all looking fairly inevitable to me.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 20, 2020 12:11:22 GMT
I don’t think the Tories in Westminster have a clue about how to counter the SNP. Nor, sadly, do Labour. The Union will rest, and quite rightly so, on what the parties in Scotland do. In fairness to the Tories they’ve ditched the lamentable Jackson Carlaw which means a return to front line politics of Ruth Davidson who can at least give Nicola Sturgeon a run for her money. Whether Carlaw’s replacement, Douglas Ross, is any good only time will tell. At least he has the advantage of not being Jackson Carlaw. Labour, on the other hand, have decided to stick with Richard Leonard, the latest in a line of insipid leaders north of the border. This is not good news for the Union. Hardly anyone knows who the he is, and those who do don’t care who he is. Labour need a new leader in Scotland to re-invigorate their voters who have moved to the SNP in recent years. If Labour isn’t credible, they allow the SNP to paint Independence as a battle between heartless Westminster Tories (as illustrated by bumbling Boris) against empathetic nationalism (typified by Saint Nicola). The LibDems are an irrelevance. Specifically and generally. As things stand the biggest challenge to independence looks like coming from the SNP themselves who are currently embarked on a civil war as well as demonstrating a level of incompetence in government as bad as anything seen since devolution. It’s a bit of a miserable state of affairs when you are relying on your opponents to score own goals to win you the game! I think the Union will rest, for the most part, on what is seen as the difference between the Scottish Government (SNP) and the Westminster (English, Conservative) government and how much Sturgeon can demonstrate that the remote English Tory government doesn't care about Scottish interests. If she can continue to do that, and it's not hard at the moment, the SNP will prosper and independence is quite likely. I think in private most Westminster politicians are accepting it's inevitable. What might turn things is if Brexit has some major benefits for Scotland in the immediate few years from January 2021. Most of the other political parties in Scotland are largely irrelevant, as next year's polls will probably demonstrate. Getting an outright majority (if the SNP does) in a PR system is quite the achievement. Passed me by, is Ruth Davidson back in Tory politics? I thought it was Ross Linesman or whatever his name is?
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Oct 20, 2020 12:21:55 GMT
I don’t think the Tories in Westminster have a clue about how to counter the SNP. Nor, sadly, do Labour. The Union will rest, and quite rightly so, on what the parties in Scotland do. In fairness to the Tories they’ve ditched the lamentable Jackson Carlaw which means a return to front line politics of Ruth Davidson who can at least give Nicola Sturgeon a run for her money. Whether Carlaw’s replacement, Douglas Ross, is any good only time will tell. At least he has the advantage of not being Jackson Carlaw. Labour, on the other hand, have decided to stick with Richard Leonard, the latest in a line of insipid leaders north of the border. This is not good news for the Union. Hardly anyone knows who the he is, and those who do don’t care who he is. Labour need a new leader in Scotland to re-invigorate their voters who have moved to the SNP in recent years. If Labour isn’t credible, they allow the SNP to paint Independence as a battle between heartless Westminster Tories (as illustrated by bumbling Boris) against empathetic nationalism (typified by Saint Nicola). The LibDems are an irrelevance. Specifically and generally. As things stand the biggest challenge to independence looks like coming from the SNP themselves who are currently embarked on a civil war as well as demonstrating a level of incompetence in government as bad as anything seen since devolution. It’s a bit of a miserable state of affairs when you are relying on your opponents to score own goals to win you the game! It was the bit about accepting that 'Brexit had changed the game' that caught my eye and the basic maths of Remainers moving to Yes outnumbering Leavers moving to No. It's all looking fairly inevitable to me. There are distinct similarities with the Brexit vote in that the arguments for the status quo lack the vitality and resonance of the call for change. The big challenge the independence folk still haven’t addressed and could turn out to be the fence at which they fall is the economy, typified in the answer to the question about what will Scotland’s currency be. Imo, the SNP still haven’t addressed this. They’d like this to be a non-issue overwhelmed by everything else. That could be a mistake. Harold Wilson, I think, coined the expression “the pound in your pocket” recognising the importance people place in basic economics ie will I be better or worse of financially. Bill Clinton had a similar line... it’s the economy stupid. Politicians should never underestimate the importance votes place on the prospects for their personal financial circumstances. The SNP were guilty of that last time, they could be making a similar error next time.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Oct 20, 2020 12:27:27 GMT
I don’t think the Tories in Westminster have a clue about how to counter the SNP. Nor, sadly, do Labour. The Union will rest, and quite rightly so, on what the parties in Scotland do. In fairness to the Tories they’ve ditched the lamentable Jackson Carlaw which means a return to front line politics of Ruth Davidson who can at least give Nicola Sturgeon a run for her money. Whether Carlaw’s replacement, Douglas Ross, is any good only time will tell. At least he has the advantage of not being Jackson Carlaw. Labour, on the other hand, have decided to stick with Richard Leonard, the latest in a line of insipid leaders north of the border. This is not good news for the Union. Hardly anyone knows who the he is, and those who do don’t care who he is. Labour need a new leader in Scotland to re-invigorate their voters who have moved to the SNP in recent years. If Labour isn’t credible, they allow the SNP to paint Independence as a battle between heartless Westminster Tories (as illustrated by bumbling Boris) against empathetic nationalism (typified by Saint Nicola). The LibDems are an irrelevance. Specifically and generally. As things stand the biggest challenge to independence looks like coming from the SNP themselves who are currently embarked on a civil war as well as demonstrating a level of incompetence in government as bad as anything seen since devolution. It’s a bit of a miserable state of affairs when you are relying on your opponents to score own goals to win you the game! I think the Union will rest, for the most part, on what is seen as the difference between the Scottish Government (SNP) and the Westminster (English, Conservative) government and how much Sturgeon can demonstrate that the remote English Tory government doesn't care about Scottish interests. If she can continue to do that, and it's not hard at the moment, the SNP will prosper and independence is quite likely. I think in private most Westminster politicians are accepting it's inevitable. What might turn things is if Brexit has some major benefits for Scotland in the immediate few years from January 2021. Most of the other political parties in Scotland are largely irrelevant, as next year's polls will probably demonstrate. Getting an outright majority (if the SNP does) in a PR system is quite the achievement. Passed me by, is Ruth Davidson back in Tory politics? I thought it was Ross Linesman or whatever his name is? Ross is running the line in Westminster. Ruth is doing the business in Holyrood. Your statement about all other parties in Scotland being irrelevant is a damming indictment of Labour.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 20, 2020 12:30:44 GMT
It was the bit about accepting that 'Brexit had changed the game' that caught my eye and the basic maths of Remainers moving to Yes outnumbering Leavers moving to No. It's all looking fairly inevitable to me. There are distinct similarities with the Brexit vote in that the arguments for the status quo lack the vitality and resonance of the call for change. The big challenge the independence folk still haven’t addressed and could turn out to be the fence at which they fall is the economy, typified in the answer to the question about what will Scotland’s currency be. Imo, the SNP still haven’t addressed this. They’d like this to be a non-issue overwhelmed by everything else. That could be a mistake. Harold Wilson, I think, coined the expression “the pound in your pocket” recognising the importance people place in basic economics ie will I be better or worse of financially. Bill Clinton had a similar line... it’s the economy stupid. Politicians should never underestimate the importance votes place on the prospects for their personal financial circumstances. The SNP were guilty of that last time, they could be making a similar error next time. Of course the SNP call all of that 'Project Fear' which is pretty ironic
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 20, 2020 12:32:58 GMT
I think the Union will rest, for the most part, on what is seen as the difference between the Scottish Government (SNP) and the Westminster (English, Conservative) government and how much Sturgeon can demonstrate that the remote English Tory government doesn't care about Scottish interests. If she can continue to do that, and it's not hard at the moment, the SNP will prosper and independence is quite likely. I think in private most Westminster politicians are accepting it's inevitable. What might turn things is if Brexit has some major benefits for Scotland in the immediate few years from January 2021. Most of the other political parties in Scotland are largely irrelevant, as next year's polls will probably demonstrate. Getting an outright majority (if the SNP does) in a PR system is quite the achievement. Passed me by, is Ruth Davidson back in Tory politics? I thought it was Ross Linesman or whatever his name is? Ross is running the line in Westminster. Ruth is doing the business in Holyrood. Your statement about all other parties in Scotland being irrelevant is a damming indictment of Labour. Thank you for clearing that up. The state of the alternative political choices in Scotland is a damning indictment, more than anything, of the Scottish people's desire to be free from Westminster. They are all seen as part of the English, Westminster detachment. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't even that party political in Scotland these days, more a case of the SNP and Independence versus Labour/LD/Tory Westminster Unionism.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 20, 2020 12:35:38 GMT
There are distinct similarities with the Brexit vote in that the arguments for the status quo lack the vitality and resonance of the call for change. The big challenge the independence folk still haven’t addressed and could turn out to be the fence at which they fall is the economy, typified in the answer to the question about what will Scotland’s currency be. Imo, the SNP still haven’t addressed this. They’d like this to be a non-issue overwhelmed by everything else. That could be a mistake. Harold Wilson, I think, coined the expression “the pound in your pocket” recognising the importance people place in basic economics ie will I be better or worse of financially. Bill Clinton had a similar line... it’s the economy stupid. Politicians should never underestimate the importance votes place on the prospects for their personal financial circumstances. The SNP were guilty of that last time, they could be making a similar error next time. Of course the SNP call all of that 'Project Fear' which is pretty ironic That is the Unionist's fundamental weakness on the economic argument now. If Brexiteers can say stuff it, we don't care that much about the economy provided we've got our sovereignty, how do you counter that from a Scottish Independence point? It's the same argument.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Oct 20, 2020 13:38:33 GMT
There are distinct similarities with the Brexit vote in that the arguments for the status quo lack the vitality and resonance of the call for change. The big challenge the independence folk still haven’t addressed and could turn out to be the fence at which they fall is the economy, typified in the answer to the question about what will Scotland’s currency be. Imo, the SNP still haven’t addressed this. They’d like this to be a non-issue overwhelmed by everything else. That could be a mistake. Harold Wilson, I think, coined the expression “the pound in your pocket” recognising the importance people place in basic economics ie will I be better or worse of financially. Bill Clinton had a similar line... it’s the economy stupid. Politicians should never underestimate the importance votes place on the prospects for their personal financial circumstances. The SNP were guilty of that last time, they could be making a similar error next time. Of course the SNP call all of that 'Project Fear' which is pretty ironic Project Fear, in SNP terms, meant stop asking us difficult questions for which we don’t have good answers for.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Oct 20, 2020 13:46:27 GMT
Of course the SNP call all of that 'Project Fear' which is pretty ironic That is the Unionist's fundamental weakness on the economic argument now. If Brexiteers can say stuff it, we don't care that much about the economy provided we've got our sovereignty, how do you counter that from a Scottish Independence point? It's the same argument. It’s a very fair point. Several of my indie pals have been full of praise for the courage of the Brexit voters in England being prepared to commit to leaving the EU despite the “fears” raised about the economic harm it would cause. If only the Scots were as brave, they lament. On the other hand, and in defence of the Union Scots, the economic consequences for Scotland leaving England are far larger than Brexit (and are further complicated by Brexit). This is apparent in that still to be resolved question of currency. At least with Brexit, the UK knows what it’s currency is. Scotland didn’t know last time and is still unsure. You can see why folk have doubts while this is not settled adequately.
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Oct 23, 2020 18:33:24 GMT
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Oct 24, 2020 5:46:04 GMT
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 24, 2020 6:55:23 GMT
I agree, Dick. All the factors mentioned have played their part to create the climate in which Independence is more than possible. Brexit may be the current catalyst but arguably Devolution started an inevitable journey, it just did not seem as obviously controversial.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 16, 2020 22:39:08 GMT
Looks like it's started...shift the blame elsewhere, as usual. This time for the seemingly inevitable break up of the United Kingdom which will come about as a direct result of Boris's vote Leave campaign. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54965585Always somebody else's fault!
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Nov 17, 2020 0:00:18 GMT
Looks like it's started...shift the blame elsewhere, as usual. This time for the seemingly inevitable break up of the United Kingdom which will come about as a direct result of Boris's vote Leave campaign. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54965585Always somebody else's fault! In the right hands think what you could do with the money it costs to run the three devolved parliments One of the reasons I never liked devolution especially as there was no English version
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Nov 17, 2020 5:30:22 GMT
The SNP love Brexit (despite their protests) and they love Johnson (despite continually slagging him off). Why? Because they are the gifts that keep giving. Take Johnson’s latest utterings... Boris Johnson 'called Scottish devolution disaster'. Naturally the SNP can’t believe their luck. This is the sort of comment opinion piece writers come out with in the media. It is not something an astute politician would say. Which leads to the natural conclusion that Johnson is not an astute politician - which isn’t a surprise. He’s a populist one. Yet another storm in a tea cup Johnson has caused by his clumsiness.
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Nov 17, 2020 7:37:15 GMT
The SNP love Brexit (despite their protests) and they love Johnson (despite continually slagging him off). Why? Because they are the gifts that keep giving. Take Johnson’s latest utterings... Boris Johnson 'called Scottish devolution disaster'. Naturally the SNP can’t believe their luck. This is the sort of comment opinion piece writers come out with in the media. It is not something an astute politician would say. Which leads to the natural conclusion that Johnson is not an astute politician - which isn’t a surprise. He’s a populist one. Yet another storm in a tea cup Johnson has caused by his clumsiness. Partick what is your opinion on domestic Scottish politics going forward. You have a one party country who's only objective is independence. Should they be successful this cant be a healthy situation . Where do the Scottish electorate go at that point. Given the level of incompetence SNP have shown . Do you see a resurrection of labour
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 17, 2020 7:39:50 GMT
Looks like it's started...shift the blame elsewhere, as usual. This time for the seemingly inevitable break up of the United Kingdom which will come about as a direct result of Boris's vote Leave campaign. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54965585Always somebody else's fault! In the right hands think what you could do with the money it costs to run the three devolved parliments One of the reasons I never liked devolution especially as there was no English version In the right hands, imagine what you could put right in this country as a whole with all the money swirling around in it, if only there was a political will to do so. 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world, but "apparently" not wealthy enough collectively to afford to pay for top rate health care, schooling, housing, transport etc etc. It's a disgrace really.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Nov 17, 2020 8:00:42 GMT
The SNP love Brexit (despite their protests) and they love Johnson (despite continually slagging him off). Why? Because they are the gifts that keep giving. Take Johnson’s latest utterings... Boris Johnson 'called Scottish devolution disaster'. Naturally the SNP can’t believe their luck. This is the sort of comment opinion piece writers come out with in the media. It is not something an astute politician would say. Which leads to the natural conclusion that Johnson is not an astute politician - which isn’t a surprise. He’s a populist one. Yet another storm in a tea cup Johnson has caused by his clumsiness. Partick what is your opinion on domestic Scottish politics going forward. You have a one party country who's only objective is independence. Should they be successful this cant be a healthy situation . Where do the Scottish electorate go at that point. Given the level of incompetence SNP have shown . Do you see a resurrection of labour Party politics in Scotland today is moribund. In this regard Johnson’s comments about devolution are correct. It was set up by Tony Blair to end the threat of independence, instead it has sectarianised politics into yes and no and nothing else matters. Not dissimilar in some ways to Northern Ireland but, thankfully, without the violence. Should Scotland become independent it’s hard to see what will happen. I suspect there will be a left leaning coalition for a number of years formed of factions from a break up of the SNP, various socialist groups that abandon Labour and a resurgent Green Party. After that collective has managed to destroy Scotland’s economy I suspect the country will find itself under a centrist coalition of moderates that will steady the ship.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 17, 2020 8:12:10 GMT
It's not moribund at all, it's just dominated by the SNP because they promise to deliver what most people in Scotland apparently now want, which is not what you appear to want, so by your definition party politics is moribund. All of the other parties are essentially representatives of distant Westminster politics, and represent the continuation of the Union, irrespective of whether they also speak on Scottish issues, which inevitably get lost in the clamour for independence.
If anything, the country is continuing to deliver a clear message on what their priority is, both in local and national elections - you'll probably see an outright majority for the SNP in May, that's hardly the sign of moribund party politics, more one of clarity about the future direction of the country.
Once Scotland leaves the UK, party politics will look more like south of the border, with a much greater focus on domestic issues because the big ticket issue is resolved. The overwhelming dominance of the SNP will probably wain as their main cause is no longer relevant.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Nov 17, 2020 8:35:32 GMT
It's not moribund at all, it's just dominated by the SNP because they promise to deliver what most people in Scotland apparently now want, which is not what you appear to want, so by your definition party politics is moribund. All of the other parties are essentially representatives of distant Westminster politics, and represent the continuation of the Union, irrespective of whether they also speak on Scottish issues, which inevitably get lost in the clamour for independence. If anything, the country is continuing to deliver a clear message on what their priority is, both in local and national elections - you'll probably see an outright majority for the SNP in May, that's hardly the sign of moribund party politics, more one of clarity about the future direction of the country. Once Scotland leaves the UK, party politics will look more like south of the border, with a much greater focus on domestic issues because the big ticket issue is resolved. The overwhelming dominance of the SNP will probably wain as their main cause is no longer relevant. Pretty much all of my nationalist friends up here are fed up to the back teeth with the SNP and it’s performance in government over the past years - health, education, the economy are all underperforming. Not to mention their interventions into the legal system first with the now repealed “football supporters “ act, then the aborted “named persons” act and now we have the appalling “hate crime” bill. Oh, and add to that the deceit and lies over the Salmond fiasco. These nationalist supporters though will all still vote for the SNP because independence transcends all other considerations. But they would never vote for her again subsequently. This is why I said party politics is moribund. We have sectarian politics in Scotland. Yes and No. it is no longer about parties.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 17, 2020 8:47:55 GMT
It's not moribund at all, it's just dominated by the SNP because they promise to deliver what most people in Scotland apparently now want, which is not what you appear to want, so by your definition party politics is moribund. All of the other parties are essentially representatives of distant Westminster politics, and represent the continuation of the Union, irrespective of whether they also speak on Scottish issues, which inevitably get lost in the clamour for independence. If anything, the country is continuing to deliver a clear message on what their priority is, both in local and national elections - you'll probably see an outright majority for the SNP in May, that's hardly the sign of moribund party politics, more one of clarity about the future direction of the country. Once Scotland leaves the UK, party politics will look more like south of the border, with a much greater focus on domestic issues because the big ticket issue is resolved. The overwhelming dominance of the SNP will probably wain as their main cause is no longer relevant. Pretty much all of my nationalist friends up here are fed up to the back teeth with the SNP and it’s performance in government over the past years - health, education, the economy are all underperforming. Not to mention their interventions into the legal system first with the now repealed “football supporters “ act, then the aborted “named persons” act and now we have the appalling “hate crime” bill. Oh, and add to that the deceit and lies over the Salmond fiasco. These nationalist supporters though will all still vote for the SNP because independence transcends all other considerations. But they would never vote for her again subsequently. This is why I said party politics is moribund. We have sectarian politics in Scotland. Yes and No. it is no longer about parties. I agree that independence is obviously the big ticket issue and over-rides all other concerns for most people. That doesn't necessarily equate to moribund party politics though. The problem the other parties have is that they are all pro-Union. So it boils down rapidly to Independence v Unionism or SNP vs Westminster parties. The issues underneath that are over-shadowed. Once that's done and dusted, the other issues will re-surface. Anyway, only one bunch to point the finger at for the eventual break-up of the Union...Brexit has been the biggest recruiter to the cause for decades! Perhaps the Conservative and Unionist Party should rename itself the Conservative and Separatist since they will be the ones who brought it all about in the end. Ironic!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 9:14:01 GMT
Partick what is your opinion on domestic Scottish politics going forward. You have a one party country who's only objective is independence. Should they be successful this cant be a healthy situation . Where do the Scottish electorate go at that point. Given the level of incompetence SNP have shown . Do you see a resurrection of labour Party politics in Scotland today is moribund. In this regard Johnson’s comments about devolution are correct. It was set up by Tony Blair to end the threat of independence, instead it has sectarianised politics into yes and no and nothing else matters. Not dissimilar in some ways to Northern Ireland but, thankfully, without the violence. Should Scotland become independent it’s hard to see what will happen. I suspect there will be a left leaning coalition for a number of years formed of factions from a break up of the SNP, various socialist groups that abandon Labour and a resurgent Green Party. After that collective has managed to destroy Scotland’s economy I suspect the country will find itself under a centrist coalition of moderates that will steady the ship."A centrist coalition of moderates" Sounds like something to look forward to
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Nov 17, 2020 9:51:06 GMT
Party politics in Scotland today is moribund. In this regard Johnson’s comments about devolution are correct. It was set up by Tony Blair to end the threat of independence, instead it has sectarianised politics into yes and no and nothing else matters. Not dissimilar in some ways to Northern Ireland but, thankfully, without the violence. Should Scotland become independent it’s hard to see what will happen. I suspect there will be a left leaning coalition for a number of years formed of factions from a break up of the SNP, various socialist groups that abandon Labour and a resurgent Green Party. After that collective has managed to destroy Scotland’s economy I suspect the country will find itself under a centrist coalition of moderates that will steady the ship."A centrist coalition of moderates" Sounds like something to look forward to It doesn’t get the pulse beating faster does it. I guess I prefer a Boycott (not boycott lower case!) type in politics to a Bothamesque character. Steady and safe (albeit without the inclination to run out team mates) and not swashbuckle devil-may-care. (I do appreciate this makes me more of a Starmer man than a Boris fan boy - although Starmer seems quite happy to dismissing his own side). I know. It’s a sign of age.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 9:53:02 GMT
"A centrist coalition of moderates" Sounds like something to look forward to It doesn’t get the pulse beating faster does it.
I guess I prefer a Boycott (not boycott lower case!) type in politics to a Bothamesque character. Steady and safe (albeit without the inclination to run out team mates) and not swashbuckle devil-may-care. (I do appreciate this makes me more of a Starmer man than a Boris fan boy!). I know. It’s a sign of age. It might actually be the most depressing sentence I've ever read
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 17, 2020 10:43:41 GMT
"A centrist coalition of moderates" Sounds like something to look forward to It doesn’t get the pulse beating faster does it. I guess I prefer a Boycott (not boycott lower case!) type in politics to a Bothamesque character. Steady and safe (albeit without the inclination to run out team mates) and not swashbuckle devil-may-care. (I do appreciate this makes me more of a Starmer man than a Boris fan boy - although Starmer seems quite happy to dismissing his own side). I know. It’s a sign of age. The only way to get a genuine representative, " middle of the road" , government is to reform First past the Post, for a form of Proportional representation, in my opinion. FPTP has served the career politicians very well until recent years, but has helped to disenfranchise the electorate, led to elected " dictatorships ", short term politics and stifled genuine, pragmatic, creative thinking because of the need to toe the party line. The House of Lords needs abolishing while we are at it , as it helps to propagate the same system.
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Nov 17, 2020 11:40:38 GMT
It doesn’t get the pulse beating faster does it. I guess I prefer a Boycott (not boycott lower case!) type in politics to a Bothamesque character. Steady and safe (albeit without the inclination to run out team mates) and not swashbuckle devil-may-care. (I do appreciate this makes me more of a Starmer man than a Boris fan boy - although Starmer seems quite happy to dismissing his own side). I know. It’s a sign of age. The only way to get a genuine representative, " middle of the road" , government is to reform First past the Post, fir a form of Proportional representation, in my opinion. FPTP has served the career politicians very well until recent years, but has helped to disenfranchise the electorate, led to elected " dictatorships ", short term politics and stifled genuine, pragmatic, creative thinking because of the need to toe the party line. The House of Lords needs abolishing while we are at it , as it helps to propagate the same system. PR would be a disaster. Can you imagine the recriminations and blaming during and afterwards. The last coalition has almost destroyed the Libdems.
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Nov 17, 2020 11:43:58 GMT
The only way to get a genuine representative, " middle of the road" , government is to reform First past the Post, fir a form of Proportional representation, in my opinion. FPTP has served the career politicians very well until recent years, but has helped to disenfranchise the electorate, led to elected " dictatorships ", short term politics and stifled genuine, pragmatic, creative thinking because of the need to toe the party line. The House of Lords needs abolishing while we are at it , as it helps to propagate the same system. PR would be a disaster. Can you imagine the recriminations and blaming during and afterwards. The last coalition has almost destroyed the Libdems. Bad coalition negotiations by Nick Clegg destroyed the libdems. Without going over old ground reference the crash it wasn’t the worst government ever and they did ok given what they had to work with. University fees should have been his absolute red line
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Nov 17, 2020 11:44:44 GMT
Looks like it's started...shift the blame elsewhere, as usual. This time for the seemingly inevitable break up of the United Kingdom which will come about as a direct result of Boris's vote Leave campaign. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54965585Always somebody else's fault! Scotland was an issue that Blair caused through trying to solve an internal Labour party problem. He's caused division and resentment South of the border as well by not giving England any separate representation. It's Blair's disaster amongst a few other major disasters during his period in office.
|
|