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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Aug 4, 2020 10:13:36 GMT
Davies has the jersey I guess, but I'm not getting too carried away. Will MON look for a number 1 or is AD the new kid in town? Given our problems elsewhere in the squad, I doubt we'll look elsewhere, assuming Jack leaves. But is Bursik ready to be second choice?
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conroyfan
Lads'n'Dads
Any advice on last min tkt should I go to Anfield and try to get in amongst Reds?
Posts: 99
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Post by conroyfan on Aug 4, 2020 10:21:32 GMT
Kelleher,the Liverpool reserve keeper due to go out on loan, Kloop and goalkeeping coaches think the world of him but he lacks games despite playing 4 times last season. He is unlikely to replace Allison any time soon so would be an asset to any club just like Henderson proved at Sheffield Utd.
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Post by tachyon on Aug 4, 2020 18:39:17 GMT
Where on the frame of the goal every on target attempt has been aimed at JB during the 2019/20 Championship season. Blue circles are goals, orange are saves. Size of the bubble is how difficult the save was. The cluster of large blue circles in JB's bottom right hand corner have an xG of around 0.7. There's a lot of them. Attachment Deleted
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Butland
Aug 4, 2020 19:18:27 GMT
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Post by wilcopotter on Aug 4, 2020 19:18:27 GMT
I hope by the time we get to page 8 of this thread he’s gone and we’re a few million richer. Time for both parties to part imo. Davies deserves a run.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 21:34:05 GMT
You're memory is worse than my grandads and hes fucking dead. Actually that's unfair on him as you actually just have an agenda. Preston - they score a penalty and from 7 yards out after a player shanks a volley. None of them his fault. Relatively lengthy highlights show no errors. Wigan - they score no goals, not one, from outside the box. The first is from 6 yards out after some awful defending. The defending for the second is even worse. Neither Butlands fault. The third is a penalty. Highlights so show no mistakes from Butland. Birmingham - they score against the run of play from 4 yards out from a great cross. No mistake by Butland nor any shown on the highlights. Birmingham - they score 2 superb goals. There isn't a keeper out there who'd have stopped either. Butland does make 2 or 3 good saves in the highlights. I gave up watching after that as you are clearly mentally unwell. Put the 3.1 defeat at Preston on. Butland is rubbish. Get yourself a new hero and get over your man crush. You can see why other clubs supporters call Stokies stupid orcs, with supporters like you. Keep throwing stones at the moon. So let's quickly analyse this. There was a post saying he was voted Supporters group player of the season 18/19 so he cant have been as bad as you (and others) were saying. You refute this saying he made many, many mistakes that season. I ask you to pick 5 games where he did, easy given how often his mistakes were purported to be. You pick some games and go as far as giving us a synopsis on one of the games goals which turns out to be utter horseshit. Bar Leeds there are no mistakes. Not one. In fact there are some very good saves. Having realised you have made a total cock of yourself you maintain that Butland is wank, ask us to watch a game from this season which has fuck all to do with the original post and then call me an orc despite the fact that it's you that is being an absolute fucking bellend. I don't no why you would dislike a player to the point where you have to create untruths about them? Maybe you just don't like keepers full stop? Hang on......were you the victim of Foxys glove!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 21:42:52 GMT
I can't understand, and never will because I don't see them on a day to day basis nor hear them on a matchday, how and why the defence improved with Davies and had more confidence in Davies.
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Butland
Aug 4, 2020 22:37:04 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 4, 2020 22:37:04 GMT
I can't understand, and never will because I don't see them on a day to day basis nor hear them on a matchday, how and why the defence improved with Davies and had more confidence in Davies. We were all over the shop in the first half against Brizzle and should have been 2 down vs Forest. I don’t think they looked any better.
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Post by tachyon on Aug 5, 2020 7:18:41 GMT
Every shot/header that ended up on target in the Championship when JB was in goal for the 2018/19 season. However you try to spin it, he was an above average shot stopper. Proportionally, there's a lot more (orange) saves and fewer (blue) goals than this season. The larger the circle, the more difficult the save. Attachment Deleted
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Post by Veritas on Aug 5, 2020 7:21:24 GMT
I can't understand, and never will because I don't see them on a day to day basis nor hear them on a matchday, how and why the defence improved with Davies and had more confidence in Davies. We were all over the shop in the first half against Brizzle and should have been 2 down vs Forest. I don’t think they looked any better. I thought Davies did well when he came in but agree the idea that the defence suddenly had a big increase in confidence is just wishful thinking.
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Butland
Aug 5, 2020 7:24:50 GMT
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 5, 2020 7:24:50 GMT
Every shot/header that ended up on target in the Championship when JB was in goal for the 2018/19 season. However you try to spin it, he was an above average shot stopper. Proportionally, there's a lot more (orange) saves and fewer (blue) goals than this season. The larger the circle, the more difficult the save. View AttachmentSuperb information here. Clearly he's not getting down to the corners to stop as many shots, as well as making some silly mistakes. Is there anything to show taking the ball in his hands from crosses?
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Post by tachyon on Aug 5, 2020 7:45:36 GMT
Every shot/header that ended up on target in the Championship when JB was in goal for the 2018/19 season. However you try to spin it, he was an above average shot stopper. Proportionally, there's a lot more (orange) saves and fewer (blue) goals than this season. The larger the circle, the more difficult the save. View AttachmentSuperb information here. Clearly he's not getting down to the corners to stop as many shots, as well as making some silly mistakes. Is there anything to show taking the ball in his hands from crosses? Cheers. Keepers deal with around 7% of crosses and the last time I looked at JB was in our final PL season, where he was claiming just over that average at 7.3%.
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Butland
Aug 5, 2020 8:04:29 GMT
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Post by datguy on Aug 5, 2020 8:04:29 GMT
Bournemouth will be looking for a new keeper if Ramsdale goes to Sheff Utd...
🤞
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Butland
Aug 5, 2020 8:08:03 GMT
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Post by datguy on Aug 5, 2020 8:08:03 GMT
Every shot/header that ended up on target in the Championship when JB was in goal for the 2018/19 season. However you try to spin it, he was an above average shot stopper. Proportionally, there's a lot more (orange) saves and fewer (blue) goals than this season. The larger the circle, the more difficult the save. View AttachmentButland’s been awful but I don’t think this proves that. I don’t get using subjective statistics. It’s the same with xG. Who decides what qualifies as a good scoring opportunity or in this case an easy/hard save? It’s football so they’re both open to interpretation. One’s standard save is another’s worldie.
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Post by mamasgloves on Aug 5, 2020 8:16:54 GMT
Every shot/header that ended up on target in the Championship when JB was in goal for the 2018/19 season. However you try to spin it, he was an above average shot stopper. Proportionally, there's a lot more (orange) saves and fewer (blue) goals than this season. The larger the circle, the more difficult the save. View AttachmentButland’s been awful but I don’t think this proves that. I don’t get using subjective statistics. It’s the same with xG. Who decides what qualifies as a good scoring opportunity or in this case an easy/hard save? It’s football so they’re both open to interpretation. One’s standard save is another’s worldie. Agree 100% - it's bollocks, what about things like foot positioning/altering feet before a save, is that taken into account or is it just velocity, angle, height? What about bodies in the box? What about players more likely to block than not, i.e. if it is the same shot with a winger in front of the GK rather than a CB who might throw himself at it. Wind? Wet surface? Sunshine?
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Post by tachyon on Aug 5, 2020 8:31:03 GMT
Every shot/header that ended up on target in the Championship when JB was in goal for the 2018/19 season. However you try to spin it, he was an above average shot stopper. Proportionally, there's a lot more (orange) saves and fewer (blue) goals than this season. The larger the circle, the more difficult the save. View AttachmentButland’s been awful but I don’t think this proves that. I don’t get using subjective statistics. It’s the same with xG. Who decides what qualifies as a good scoring opportunity or in this case an easy/hard save? It’s football so they’re both open to interpretation. One’s standard save is another’s worldie. The historical data decides whether it's a good chance/save. In the case of a player taking the shot, it's where he's taking it from on the pitch (two yards out or from the touchline and near halfway), how the chance was created (from a fast break, a pull back from the byeline, a corner kick, a direct free kick etc), whether it's a header, a shot, or whether it hits him on the backside, what the defensive pressure is on the shooter etc. For a keeper you add post shot characteristics as well. So that's how well the shot was struck (events are timestamped so travel time is available), where on the frame of the goal it is destined to cross the goal line (that's just a simple H (height) and W (width) co-ordinate), whether the shot is deflected, if it moves in the air, whether it's a cross shot or near post. Overall I've got over 30 parameters I can use to describe an attempt on goal and the number you use depends on whether you want to improve the descriptive nature of the goal attempt or maximise the predictive nature for a player's output going forward. You're comparing a player to a similar situation that has arisen many times in the past and you're comparing his outcome against what historically has occurred. And you combine this information with video evidence.
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Post by tachyon on Aug 5, 2020 8:32:11 GMT
Butland’s been awful but I don’t think this proves that. I don’t get using subjective statistics. It’s the same with xG. Who decides what qualifies as a good scoring opportunity or in this case an easy/hard save? It’s football so they’re both open to interpretation. One’s standard save is another’s worldie. Agree 100% - it's bollocks, what about things like foot positioning/altering feet before a save, is that taken into account or is it just velocity, angle, height? What about bodies in the box? What about players more likely to block than not, i.e. if it is the same shot with a winger in front of the GK rather than a CB who might throw himself at it. Wind? Wet surface? Sunshine? Rag doll
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Post by mamasgloves on Aug 5, 2020 10:11:27 GMT
Agree 100% - it's bollocks, what about things like foot positioning/altering feet before a save, is that taken into account or is it just velocity, angle, height? What about bodies in the box? What about players more likely to block than not, i.e. if it is the same shot with a winger in front of the GK rather than a CB who might throw himself at it. Wind? Wet surface? Sunshine? Rag doll So, no then?
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Post by tachyon on Aug 5, 2020 10:19:25 GMT
No, a keeper's stick man shape is used to designate posture etc. Rag doll. But tbh you lost me at "bollocks"
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Post by mamasgloves on Aug 5, 2020 10:33:23 GMT
No, a keeper's stick man shape is used to designate posture etc. Rag doll. But tbh you lost me at "bollocks" At the point of contact with the ball or in the preceding second/both? And is this a manual process or do you have AI and this written into a programme so at least it can be consistently applied?
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Post by tachyon on Aug 5, 2020 10:43:25 GMT
No, a keeper's stick man shape is used to designate posture etc. Rag doll. But tbh you lost me at "bollocks" At the point of contact with the ball or in the preceding second/both? And is this a manual process or do you have AI and this written into a programme so at least it can be consistently applied? Frame by frame, so at any point as required, AI, outsourced, timestamped tracking data for defensive positioning.
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Butland
Aug 5, 2020 11:38:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 11:38:38 GMT
Every shot/header that ended up on target in the Championship when JB was in goal for the 2018/19 season. However you try to spin it, he was an above average shot stopper. Proportionally, there's a lot more (orange) saves and fewer (blue) goals than this season. The larger the circle, the more difficult the save. View AttachmentWhat a crap visual. Does it come with any P-value for the claim that ‘he was above average’?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 14:09:27 GMT
Every shot/header that ended up on target in the Championship when JB was in goal for the 2018/19 season. However you try to spin it, he was an above average shot stopper. Proportionally, there's a lot more (orange) saves and fewer (blue) goals than this season. The larger the circle, the more difficult the save. View AttachmentWhat a crap visual. Does it come with any P-value for the claim that ‘he was above average’? Nah it comes with the backing of numerous people who saw was above average in 18/19 rathe than the small minority of idiots who think he's the worst goalkeeper to ever have played football ever
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Post by tachyon on Aug 5, 2020 14:34:42 GMT
[/quote]What a crap visual. Does it come with any P-value for the claim that ‘he was above average’?[/quote]
C'mon no one uses p values anymore!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 19:26:02 GMT
So if he does go to Coventry he could either keep them out of trouble, i.e. finish 21st or he'll be playing League 1 the season after next...
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Butland
Aug 5, 2020 21:25:00 GMT
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Aug 5, 2020 21:25:00 GMT
Put the 3.1 defeat at Preston on. Butland is rubbish. Get yourself a new hero and get over your man crush. You can see why other clubs supporters call Stokies stupid orcs, with supporters like you. Keep throwing stones at the moon. So let's quickly analyse this. There was a post saying he was voted Supporters group player of the season 18/19 so he cant have been as bad as you (and others) were saying. You refute this saying he made many, many mistakes that season. I ask you to pick 5 games where he did, easy given how often his mistakes were purported to be. You pick some games and go as far as giving us a synopsis on one of the games goals which turns out to be utter horseshit. Bar Leeds there are no mistakes. Not one. In fact there are some very good saves. Having realised you have made a total cock of yourself you maintain that Butland is wank, ask us to watch a game from this season which has fuck all to do with the original post and then call me an orc despite the fact that it's you that is being an absolute fucking bellend. I don't no why you would dislike a player to the point where you have to create untruths about them? Maybe you just don't like keepers full stop? Hang on......were you the victim of Foxys glove! So you are a butland supporter and not a Stoke supporter. The performances by him in those clips are terrible, he is a low league standard and was very lucky to play in the premiership and will never play in the premiership again. No wonder there is problems behind the scenes when Begovic and Grant where dropped for butland I don't dislike him, don't know him, he is just not good enough for Stoke City. You are making yourself look silly again with all the swearing and a lame attempt at some sort of humour. Keep throwing stones at the moon.
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Butland
Aug 5, 2020 22:27:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by PotteringThrough on Aug 5, 2020 22:27:43 GMT
So let's quickly analyse this. There was a post saying he was voted Supporters group player of the season 18/19 so he cant have been as bad as you (and others) were saying. You refute this saying he made many, many mistakes that season. I ask you to pick 5 games where he did, easy given how often his mistakes were purported to be. You pick some games and go as far as giving us a synopsis on one of the games goals which turns out to be utter horseshit. Bar Leeds there are no mistakes. Not one. In fact there are some very good saves. Having realised you have made a total cock of yourself you maintain that Butland is wank, ask us to watch a game from this season which has fuck all to do with the original post and then call me an orc despite the fact that it's you that is being an absolute fucking bellend. I don't no why you would dislike a player to the point where you have to create untruths about them? Maybe you just don't like keepers full stop? Hang on......were you the victim of Foxys glove! So you are a butland supporter and not a Stoke supporter. The performances by him in those clips are terrible, he is a low league standard and was very lucky to play in the premiership and will never play in the premiership again. No wonder there is problems behind the scenes when Begovic and Grant where dropped for butland I don't dislike him, don't know him, he is just not good enough for Stoke City. You are making yourself look silly again with all the swearing and a lame attempt at some sort of humour. Keep throwing stones at the moon. Can't you be both or do you actively seek Jack to fail? I like Jack. I think he gives a shit about the club. I think he should move on to get his career back on track and I genuinely think he can do it to get back to the top level. He is good enough we just don't seem to be a good match at the moment. If he does leave I genuinely hope he sorts himself out and gets back to being a top class keeper.
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Butland
Aug 5, 2020 23:32:49 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 5, 2020 23:32:49 GMT
What a crap visual. Does it come with any P-value for the claim that ‘he was above average’? Nah it comes with the backing of numerous people who saw was above average in 18/19 rathe than the small minority of idiots who think he's the worst goalkeeper to ever have played football ever Where does your love for this overrated fool come from? One good season and bar that average to shite.
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Butland
Aug 5, 2020 23:35:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 5, 2020 23:35:45 GMT
So you are a butland supporter and not a Stoke supporter. The performances by him in those clips are terrible, he is a low league standard and was very lucky to play in the premiership and will never play in the premiership again. No wonder there is problems behind the scenes when Begovic and Grant where dropped for butland I don't dislike him, don't know him, he is just not good enough for Stoke City. You are making yourself look silly again with all the swearing and a lame attempt at some sort of humour. Keep throwing stones at the moon. Can't you be both or do you actively seek Jack to fail? I like Jack. I think he gives a shit about the club. I think he should move on to get his career back on track and I genuinely think he can do it to get back to the top level. He is good enough we just don't seem to be a good match at the moment. If he does leave I genuinely hope he sorts himself out and gets back to being a top class keeper. You think he gives a shit? His attitude is appalling and it shocks how people can’t see it. The crocodile tears when we were relegated were one of the most pathetic sights witnessed in a long time from a Stoke player. He just gives me the impression that he hates it here and tbh I don’t blame him.
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Butland
Aug 5, 2020 23:52:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 23:52:00 GMT
Can't you be both or do you actively seek Jack to fail? I like Jack. I think he gives a shit about the club. I think he should move on to get his career back on track and I genuinely think he can do it to get back to the top level. He is good enough we just don't seem to be a good match at the moment. If he does leave I genuinely hope he sorts himself out and gets back to being a top class keeper. You think he gives a shit? His attitude is appalling and it shocks how people can’t see it. The crocodile tears when we were relegated were one of the most pathetic sights witnessed in a long time from a Stoke player. He just gives me the impression that he hates it here and tbh I don’t blame him. He tried to get a move with beswicks a couple of years ago .It didn't happen .He blamed beswicks and got a more high profile agent ( either wayne Rooney's agent or the agent who got Wayne Rooney his move to man utd , I forget which , but one or the other . He couldn't find any takers ( last summer ) either !! Anyway , what ever it was , getting in a new high profile agent, only to find out...still nobody wants you .. hardly counts as loyalty
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Butland
Aug 5, 2020 23:53:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 23:53:07 GMT
Can't you be both or do you actively seek Jack to fail? I like Jack. I think he gives a shit about the club. I think he should move on to get his career back on track and I genuinely think he can do it to get back to the top level. He is good enough we just don't seem to be a good match at the moment. If he does leave I genuinely hope he sorts himself out and gets back to being a top class keeper. You think he gives a shit? His attitude is appalling and it shocks how people can’t see it. The crocodile tears when we were relegated were one of the most pathetic sights witnessed in a long time from a Stoke player. He just gives me the impression that he hates it here and tbh I don’t blame him. He tried to get a move with beswicks a couple of years ago .It didn't happen .He blamed beswicks and got a more high profile agent ( either wayne Rooney's agent or the agent who got Wayne Rooney his move to man utd , I forget which , but one or the other . He couldn't find any takers ( last summer ) either !! Anyway , what ever it was , getting in a new high profile agent, only to find out...still nobody wants you .. hardly counts as loyalty
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