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Post by metalhead on Apr 2, 2020 15:42:36 GMT
Why? It's all hypothetical and I see no harm in suggesting that in the context of the modern game, Maradona is probably one of greatest of all time and would have had no trouble in the modern game and been up there with the Ronaldo's and Messi's.... we are probably at the end of of football's technical peak. When you look at football now and say 20 years ago, the differences are barely noticeable. 30 years ago... barely noticeable... it takes some 40 years before the logarithmic curve of progress begins to resemble actual noticeable differences. Let me give you another example, most on the EE board know I'm a keen guitarist and musician. Look at guitar playing and technique from the 30's up to 80's. I know I'm fully opening myself up to some abuse here, but Jimi Hendrix is a bit like a Bobby Charlton of music. In his era, he was utterly stunning, but nowadays, Hendrix' technique and general playing ability would be considered, well, fairly ordinary. Heck, his playing was pretty obsolete by the early 70's when you compare to some of the players around that time, which is why I cringe when people say he's the greatest guitarist of all time. Really, he was more like the most influential guitarist of all time.... because his playing changed the way guitar was seen and used. Similar to 80's football though, guitar playing saw huge changes during the 70's and even more during the 80's and the introduction of the 'modern era' of guitar playing... superior 'technical' musicians like Yngwie Malmsteen, Michael Angelo Batio, Satriani etc (one genre I know)... it's the same reason guys like Brian May really don't hold up against the technical virtuoso's. Since the late 80s then, there hasn't been the technical leaps that took place in the years before that... so a bit like football, the technique curve kind of hit it's peak, again, in the 80's. There are plenty of stunning young guitar players now, but a lot of the technique is derived from guitar players in the 80s, which is why... not hampered by athletic atrophy like footballers are, many of the best 80's players are still at the top of the game now. It's called exponential plateau. I'm fully with you on the view that Maradona would quite easily make the grade in today's game. I personally believe he would surpass Messi and Ronaldo into the bargain. I'm quite interested in your reference to music as a comparison. Whilst footballing legends return to the stage as past has-beens and charge a fiver to get in to a charity match, music legends fill arenas and stadiums at costs upwards of 80 quid. (This btw is a masiive bug-bear to me as I am a big champion of new music and am eternally shocked people will pay £100 to watch a fraud like Phil Collins and then wince at paying a tiny fraction of that to see something fresh and current). As far as Hendrix goes, for me he is still the best guitarist that ever graced this planet. Don't forget for one minute the innovator he was. His experimentation with reverb and feedback has practically shaped rock music for the past 50 years and will continue to do so as long as people plug in an electric guitar. His short solo in Hey Joe packs more feeling and emotion into 10 seconds than most guitarists achieve in a lifetime of virtuosity. There'd quite simply be no Michael Angelo Batio or the like, without Jimi Hendrix! Ultimately, music and football is not a such a good comparison, in my humble opinion. I wasn't trying to compare them closely, but give an example of two exponential plateaus.
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Post by meggeth on Apr 2, 2020 18:58:51 GMT
Sorry nothing to do with Maradona (I did watch it though!), but.... Hey richardparker (not using quote - too long!) I wouldn't exactly call Phil Collins a fraud. I know a lot of his stuff is looked upon as being boring now (and I agree to a large extent), but during the 70s he made some fantastic music, both with genesis and on his own, was an incredible drummer, performed in some great concerts, and wrote some superb music. He was very highly regarded back then. I think he paid his dues as a musician. So personally, I wouldn't call him a fraud. My view anyway 😁
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Post by richardparker on Apr 2, 2020 20:36:50 GMT
Sorry nothing to do with Maradona (I did watch it though!), but.... Hey richardparker (not using quote - too long!) I wouldn't exactly call Phil Collins a fraud. I know a lot of his stuff is looked upon as being boring now (and I agree to a large extent), but during the 70s he made some fantastic music, both with genesis and on his own, was an incredible drummer, performed in some great concerts, and wrote some superb music. He was very highly regarded back then. I think he paid his dues as a musician. So personally, I wouldn't call him a fraud. My view anyway 😁 Apologies! He probably deserves more respect. I saw him front Genesis at Bingley Hall in the 70s and enjoyed the gig. At the time, he benefited from being in a band that had excellent musicianship and song-writing talent. He was never (in my eyes) a satisfactory replacement for Peter Gabriel. His best known song is a poor rendition, if not catchy, of an old Motown hit. He regularly tours, with tickets weighing in at around £80-130.That for someone who has produced very little of worth (again, in my eyes) since the 1970s. All of this has undoubtedly blinkered my view of him.
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Post by richardparker on Apr 2, 2020 20:42:54 GMT
I'm fully with you on the view that Maradona would quite easily make the grade in today's game. I personally believe he would surpass Messi and Ronaldo into the bargain. I'm quite interested in your reference to music as a comparison. Whilst footballing legends return to the stage as past has-beens and charge a fiver to get in to a charity match, music legends fill arenas and stadiums at costs upwards of 80 quid. (This btw is a masiive bug-bear to me as I am a big champion of new music and am eternally shocked people will pay £100 to watch a fraud like Phil Collins and then wince at paying a tiny fraction of that to see something fresh and current). As far as Hendrix goes, for me he is still the best guitarist that ever graced this planet. Don't forget for one minute the innovator he was. His experimentation with reverb and feedback has practically shaped rock music for the past 50 years and will continue to do so as long as people plug in an electric guitar. His short solo in Hey Joe packs more feeling and emotion into 10 seconds than most guitarists achieve in a lifetime of virtuosity. There'd quite simply be no Michael Angelo Batio or the like, without Jimi Hendrix! Ultimately, music and football is not a such a good comparison, in my humble opinion. I wasn't trying to compare them closely, but give an example of two exponential plateaus. That's fine, but not sure you needed to. Just out of interest, is there any other example of an exponential plateau you could give?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 16:46:10 GMT
An absolutely fantastic footballer .
He came from the poorest of the poorest of Buenos Aires slums ...Vila fortina ... with literally no fresh water and sanitation , where everyone lived in a shack . As a youngster he had a football but no other possessions
Surprisingly, or not surprisingly ( depending upon your point of view ) , he found he was less happy as a millionaire footballer awash with possessions, money and fame .He was less happy than as a poor boy from the slums .
Makes you wonder how many times , this story has been repeated in football , music and the film industry .
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 16:49:13 GMT
An absolutely fantastic footballer . He came from the poorest of the poorest of Buenos Aires slums ...Vila fortina ... with literally no fresh water and sanitation , where everyone lived in a shack . As a youngster he had a football but no other possessions Surprisingly, or not surprisingly ( depending upon your point of view ) , he found he was less happy as a millionaire footballer awash with possessions, money and fame .He was less happy than as a poor boy from the slums . Makes you wonder how many times , this story has been repeated in football , music and the film industry . Yep,you can clearly see in the documentary how happy he is at home with his parents but the whole Naples scene was driving him crazy.
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Post by blackpoolred on Apr 3, 2020 22:45:33 GMT
I think our Stan was the ultimate Chameleon was he not - playing across 5 decades. He was light years ahead of his time in terms of fitness and diet and had a burst of pace over 5 yards that would leave many a modern day player on their backs - he would have no problem playing in any era. I once saw our very own Hudson, who played the majority of his career in the 60/70's come on as a sub for 20 mins against Leeds in 1985 and tear them to shreds without even breaking into canter. I would like to have seen a lot of these modern day footballers - who fall on the floor and roll around like they have been shot if anybody goes within a yard of them - playing in eras gone by - trying to play with a ball with laces in it, on awful pitches while getting lumps kicked out of them - a lot of them would not have cut the mustard. Regarding guitar, Django Reinhardt was technically better than anybody on the planet before and after him and he only had the use of a few fingers - and he died in 1953 - music has been going backwards for centuries. Stan was light years ahead of his generation. What he did was exceptional.... but it's now considered normal, if not an expectation laid down pretty early on to young footballers. While I agree the first part of your statement, as soon as you resort to "I'd like to see these modern day footballers".... I always think, well hold on, how would a 60's defender cope against a skilful modern player less prone to taking a dive... a Ricardo Fuller, a Peter Hoekstra, a Robbie Fowler considering their superior technique compared to players of their age. I have actually alluded to the fact in earlier posts that part of the reason we saw such progress and as such hit an exponential plateau, certainly technique wise is down to the significant investment in football-specific equipment during the 70's and 80's. There is only so much you can physically achieve with football boots akin to a set of WW2 army boots. Fontball was a less technically advanced game back in the 60's.... and it remains my opinion that the advancement of the game hit the current era in the 80's. As for Django Reinhardt, lol.... sorry mate, you're romanticising it. It's fair to say his guitar playing abilities roughly represent that of a very very good physically limited player. He is nowhere near as skilled technically (I'm thinking vibrato etc) than a Yngwie or a Satriani. A lot the technical side of guitar playing hit that ceiling in the 80's and there were very few before it that really came close. If you want your anomaly.... Albert Lee - Country Boy. Absolutely outrageous technique and before the days of the super technical players. I'll give you the football related stuff - However, I have to say in 40 years of playing all forms of guitar and reading many articles on the subject I have I never heard anybody describe Django as limited In guitar world this is considered as treason and you should be brought to trial Satriani is good but using your own analogy, in this day and age, you could probably find a 12 year old french girl on youtube with just as much talent Oh and by the way, if skill and pace are now the norm in modern day football - can you please inform Stoke City FC as they seem to have missed the boat
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