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Post by lordb on Mar 21, 2020 22:11:45 GMT
Not as good as Mark Chamberlain For two months in 1982 when he was at a low ebb at Barcelona (replaced by the mighty Steve Archibald), yup. Maradona was allowed to go to Napoli (not Juventus or Roma but Napoli) because he was deemed to have failed. His incredible success in Naples and for Argentina arguably motivated by getting the boot from Barcelona.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2020 23:17:24 GMT
Not as good as Mark Chamberlain For two months in 1982 when he was at a low ebb at Barcelona (replaced by the mighty Steve Archibald), yup. Maradona was allowed to go to Napoli (not Juventus or Roma but Napoli) because he was deemed to have failed. His incredible success in Naples and for Argentina arguably motivated by getting the boot from Barcelona. They sold him for a then world record fee. He didnt get the boot.
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Post by BristolMick on Mar 21, 2020 23:40:17 GMT
Really enjoyed that and it shows how important it is for young people who become superstars to have good and strong people around them. Naples and the people he called his friends used him, destroyed him and spat him out.
I have a bit more sympathy for him.now.
BM
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 21, 2020 23:44:27 GMT
Really enjoyed that and it shows how important it is for young people who become superstars to have good and strong people around them. Naples and the people he called his friends used him, destroyed him and spat him out. I have a bit more sympathy for him.now. BM Same for gazza
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2020 0:04:06 GMT
Really enjoyed that and it shows how important it is for young people who become superstars to have good and strong people around them. Naples and the people he called his friends used him, destroyed him and spat him out. I have a bit more sympathy for him.now. BM Same for gazza To a certain extent but Gazza always was a prat of an individual and didn't need the help of others to explain his stupidity. Those he surrounded himself with for that time didn't help but he's changed little. Not in the same bracket of ability by a long shot either.
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Post by PenkPonther on Mar 22, 2020 1:00:18 GMT
Ok I don't dislike him quite as much as I did now, the lardy-arsed crackhead.
The programme however was quite happy to label him as a cheat (as well as a genius), and obviously cheating-wise there was the illegal drug-taking aspect to back that up.
I just wonder though, aside from the famous handball, was there anything else that he did on the pitch that warranted him deservedly being labelled as a cheat, and also the most hated man in Italy?
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 22, 2020 3:38:26 GMT
Ok I don't dislike him quite as much as I did now, the lardy-arsed crackhead. The programme however was quite happy to label him as a cheat (as well as a genius), and obviously cheating-wise there was the illegal drug-taking aspect to back that up. I just wonder though, aside from the famous handball, was there anything else that he did on the pitch that warranted him deservedly being labelled as a cheat, and also the most hated man in Italy? He did a less famous handball against the Soviet Union in 1990. But overall Maradona was more sinned against than sinner. The physical violence he had to endure was on a par with what Pele suffered in 1966. IMHO the treatment he received from Gentile was a turning point in the rules of football. They couldn't allow that kind of assault anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2020 7:49:20 GMT
Ok I don't dislike him quite as much as I did now, the lardy-arsed crackhead. The programme however was quite happy to label him as a cheat (as well as a genius), and obviously cheating-wise there was the illegal drug-taking aspect to back that up. I just wonder though, aside from the famous handball, was there anything else that he did on the pitch that warranted him deservedly being labelled as a cheat, and also the most hated man in Italy? He did a less famous handball against the Soviet Union in 1990. But overall Maradona was more sinned against than sinner. The physical violence he had to endure was on a par with what Pele suffered in 1966. IMHO the treatment he received from Gentile was a turning point in the rules of football. They couldn't allow that kind of assault anymore. The Russia handball was at the other end of course Always known in England for the so called Hand of God which is a shame as was an absolute genius. Looked like he was back to his best with that goal v Greece until the drug test but let's not fall into the trap of claiming that was drug taking that made him a great player, far from but it seems but some seem to label him this drugs cheat. The Gentile game, wow for anyone who has never seen it. Got incredibly rough treatment from Brazil in 82 also and eventually snapped
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Post by raythesailor on Mar 22, 2020 9:07:11 GMT
Ok I don't dislike him quite as much as I did now, the lardy-arsed crackhead. The programme however was quite happy to label him as a cheat (as well as a genius), and obviously cheating-wise there was the illegal drug-taking aspect to back that up. I just wonder though, aside from the famous handball, was there anything else that he did on the pitch that warranted him deservedly being labelled as a cheat, and also the most hated man in Italy? I read somewhere and sometime ago that what we ,quite correctly, regard as cheating was in Argentina and S America regarded (then) as normal and was a everyday feature of their game. I suppose it reflects the difference in our societies everyday standards and attitudes . I enjoyed the program and may try to catch the last twenty mins on catch up as I was starting to doze towards the end.
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Post by BristolMick on Mar 22, 2020 10:09:53 GMT
Ok I don't dislike him quite as much as I did now, the lardy-arsed crackhead. The programme however was quite happy to label him as a cheat (as well as a genius), and obviously cheating-wise there was the illegal drug-taking aspect to back that up. I just wonder though, aside from the famous handball, was there anything else that he did on the pitch that warranted him deservedly being labelled as a cheat, and also the most hated man in Italy? I read somewhere and sometime ago that what we ,quite correctly, regard as cheating was in Argentina and S America regarded (then) as normal and was a everyday feature of their game. I suppose it reflects the difference in our societies everyday standards and attitudes . I enjoyed the program and may try to catch the last twenty mins on catch up as I was starting to doze towards the end. The people of Italy and particularly Naples were shown to be far more despicable than the people of his homeland. For example the Napoli club president who had benefited so much from Maradona’s genius turned the world on him when he scored the penalty that sent Italy out of Italia 90 in the semifinals played in Naples. It’s like he expected Maradona to deliberately miss it and it was an insult to the Italian nation when he didn’t! Thereafter he was thrown to the wolves and prosecutors were invited in and helped to indict and convict him where previously they’d never got near him because the Mafia (who’d enabled and encouraged his drug taking in the first place)had bought them all off. BM
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Post by kidcrewbob on Mar 22, 2020 10:59:50 GMT
I read somewhere and sometime ago that what we ,quite correctly, regard as cheating was in Argentina and S America regarded (then) as normal and was a everyday feature of their game. I suppose it reflects the difference in our societies everyday standards and attitudes . I enjoyed the program and may try to catch the last twenty mins on catch up as I was starting to doze towards the end. The people of Italy and particularly Naples were shown to be far more despicable than the people of his homeland. For example the Napoli club president who had benefited so much from Maradona’s genius turned the world on him when he scored the penalty that sent Italy out of Italia 90 in the semifinals played in Naples. It’s like he expected Maradona to deliberately miss it and it was an insult to the Italian nation when he didn’t! Thereafter he was thrown to the wolves and prosecutors were invited in and helped to indict and convict him where previously they’d never got near him because the Mafia (who’d enabled and encouraged his drug taking in the first place)had bought them all off. BM Spot on - the way they deified him then turned on him was scary. No wonder he went off his rocker.....what a life.....had he been born 30 years on he'd be living in a mansion in Cheshire no doubt, the most wealthy player on the planet....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2020 11:02:40 GMT
The people of Italy and particularly Naples were shown to be far more despicable than the people of his homeland. For example the Napoli club president who had benefited so much from Maradona’s genius turned the world on him when he scored the penalty that sent Italy out of Italia 90 in the semifinals played in Naples. It’s like he expected Maradona to deliberately miss it and it was an insult to the Italian nation when he didn’t! Thereafter he was thrown to the wolves and prosecutors were invited in and helped to indict and convict him where previously they’d never got near him because the Mafia (who’d enabled and encouraged his drug taking in the first place)had bought them all off. BM Spot on - the way they deified him then turned on him was scary. No wonder he went off his rocker.....what a life.....had he been born 30 years on he'd be living in a mansion in Cheshire no doubt, the most wealthy player on the planet.... He was very close to joining Sheff Utd at one time
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Post by lordb on Mar 22, 2020 11:07:18 GMT
For two months in 1982 when he was at a low ebb at Barcelona (replaced by the mighty Steve Archibald), yup. Maradona was allowed to go to Napoli (not Juventus or Roma but Napoli) because he was deemed to have failed. His incredible success in Naples and for Argentina arguably motivated by getting the boot from Barcelona. They sold him for a then world record fee. He didnt get the boot. He was deemed a failure. That's why he was for sale. That's why it wasn't an A list club buying him but provincial Napoli. He then went onto become the best player in the world
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Post by BristolMick on Mar 22, 2020 11:10:50 GMT
The people of Italy and particularly Naples were shown to be far more despicable than the people of his homeland. For example the Napoli club president who had benefited so much from Maradona’s genius turned the world on him when he scored the penalty that sent Italy out of Italia 90 in the semifinals played in Naples. It’s like he expected Maradona to deliberately miss it and it was an insult to the Italian nation when he didn’t! Thereafter he was thrown to the wolves and prosecutors were invited in and helped to indict and convict him where previously they’d never got near him because the Mafia (who’d enabled and encouraged his drug taking in the first place)had bought them all off. BM Spot on - the way they deified him then turned on him was scary. No wonder he went off his rocker.....what a life.....had he been born 30 years on he'd be living in a mansion in Cheshire no doubt, the most wealthy player on the planet.... Reflecting on that turning point a bit more and it shows that for all his weaknesses Maradona was strong on his values and integrity when he played for his country against Italy that day. He must have come under immense pressure to be dishonest and he stuck two fingers up to them. He paid a very high price for it too! BM
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 22, 2020 11:37:56 GMT
I read somewhere and sometime ago that what we ,quite correctly, regard as cheating was in Argentina and S America regarded (then) as normal and was a everyday feature of their game. I suppose it reflects the difference in our societies everyday standards and attitudes . I enjoyed the program and may try to catch the last twenty mins on catch up as I was starting to doze towards the end. The people of Italy and particularly Naples were shown to be far more despicable than the people of his homeland. For example the Napoli club president who had benefited so much from Maradona’s genius turned the world on him when he scored the penalty that sent Italy out of Italia 90 in the semifinals played in Naples. It’s like he expected Maradona to deliberately miss it and it was an insult to the Italian nation when he didn’t! Thereafter he was thrown to the wolves and prosecutors were invited in and helped to indict and convict him where previously they’d never got near him because the Mafia (who’d enabled and encouraged his drug taking in the first place)had bought them all off. BM Ahn was going to get a contract at Perugia but when he knocked Italy out in 2002 they told him piss off.
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Post by raythesailor on Mar 22, 2020 12:14:43 GMT
Just a reminder he came to STOKE a few years ago. I think it was against Liverpool, who had an Argentinian full back playing for them.
Not knowing he was there could not understand why all the press had their lenses focused on the directors box. Thought maybe uncle Peter was having a punch up with his Chief Exec. !
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Post by spiderpuss on Mar 22, 2020 12:30:08 GMT
A great documentary with lots of original footage. You can see the same problems as our "Gazza". The game against Juventus was absolutely brutal, where nearly every tackle would be foul or a "VAR" review nowadays. We may not see this sort of skill again, a terrific player and you'd loved to see him in a Stoke shirt.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Mar 22, 2020 12:30:45 GMT
Just a reminder he came to STOKE a few years ago. I think it was against Liverpool, who had an Argentinian full back playing for them. Not knowing he was there could not understand why all the press had their lenses focused on the directors box. Thought maybe uncle Peter was having a punch up with his Chief Exec. ! With hindsight we should have made a bit more fuss of who we had in our presence and prove that we don't hold silly grudges and recognise one of the most gifted players of all time (if not the most gifted)......
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Post by raythesailor on Mar 22, 2020 12:41:20 GMT
Just a reminder he came to STOKE a few years ago. I think it was against Liverpool, who had an Argentinian full back playing for them. Not knowing he was there could not understand why all the press had their lenses focused on the directors box. Thought maybe uncle Peter was having a punch up with his Chief Exec. ! With hindsight we should have made a bit more fuss of who we had in our presence and prove that we don't hold silly grudges and recognise one of the most gifted players of all time (if not the most gifted)...... Could not agree more. It would have been great if he came out onto the pitch and let the ground (hopefully) salute him. would of put some pressure on the guy he came to watch. So what? He wasn’t playing for us. 🤪⚓️
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Post by richardparker on Mar 22, 2020 13:11:24 GMT
Damned if he did, damned if he didn't!
So sad to see how he ended up ... made a number of poor decisions off the field (and a few on it) that would not be allowed to happen in today's game.
Though it's a team effort, he practically won Napoli the Scudetta, not once but twice, on his own. At a time when the Italian top flight was the best in the world, that is probably the biggest achievement any footballer can claim in the history of the game!
And, unlike certain world-beaters of the modern age, he ran the show on the world stage too.
Diego Armando Maradona ... the most tenacious,resilient and skillful footballer ever. Love him or loathe him (or anything in between). That is fact!
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Post by tpholloway1 on Mar 22, 2020 13:22:04 GMT
Damned if he did, damned if he didn't! So sad to see how he ended up ... made a number of poor decisions off the field (and a few on it) that would not be allowed to happen in today's game. Though it's a team effort, he practically won Napoli the Scudetta, not once but twice, on his own. At a time when the Italian top flight was the best in the world, that is probably the biggest achievement any footballer can claim in the history of the game! And, unlike certain world-beaters of the modern age, he ran the show on the world stage too. Diego Armando Maradona ... the most tenacious,resilient and skillful footballer ever. Love him or loathe him (or anything in between). That is fact! I remember reading an article by a player (can't remember who) about his first training session at Napoli. He walked out, flicked a ball up and volleyed straight up into the air. When it came down he did the same again, several times. The other players just stood open mouthed. Anyone who's played, at any level. will know how difficult, if not impossible, this is. Footballing genius.
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Post by werrington on Mar 22, 2020 15:49:09 GMT
Just watched on catch up
Truly superb viewing
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Post by raythesailor on Mar 22, 2020 16:04:46 GMT
Just watched on catch up Truly superb viewing Just read that the documentary won an Oscar.
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Post by BristolMick on Mar 22, 2020 16:36:31 GMT
Just watched on catch up Truly superb viewing Did it change your opinion of him at all mate? BM
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Post by werrington on Mar 22, 2020 16:38:59 GMT
Just watched on catch up Truly superb viewing Did it change your opinion of him at all mate? BM Yes mate he was a tortured soul who was just used His antics in later life cannot be excused but he lost his year 20s to the masses and you can see it’s probably a spin off of that Gascogne was/is a similar scenario
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Post by theoptimist on Mar 22, 2020 18:35:40 GMT
Pure genius! Played in an era when it was still okay to kick lumps out of you - especially in Italy!
Amazing he was able to keep producing on the pitch with all that crap going on. Would have had far more shielding from public madness these days.
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Post by spiderpuss on Mar 22, 2020 18:47:19 GMT
Damned if he did, damned if he didn't! So sad to see how he ended up ... made a number of poor decisions off the field (and a few on it) that would not be allowed to happen in today's game. Though it's a team effort, he practically won Napoli the Scudetta, not once but twice, on his own. At a time when the Italian top flight was the best in the world, that is probably the biggest achievement any footballer can claim in the history of the game! And, unlike certain world-beaters of the modern age, he ran the show on the world stage too. Diego Armando Maradona ... the most tenacious,resilient and skillful footballer ever. Love him or loathe him (or anything in between). That is fact! I remember reading an article by a player (can't remember who) about his first training session at Napoli. He walked out, flicked a ball up and volleyed straight up into the air. When it came down he did the same again, several times. The other players just stood open mouthed. Anyone who's played, at any level. will know how difficult, if not impossible, this is. Footballing genius. About 2.43 in, yeah that's special.
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Post by raythesailor on Mar 22, 2020 19:01:13 GMT
Anybody who has not seen it I believe it is now available on the More 4 app if you can get it. Well worth watching and thanks to the OP Richard for telling us it was on.
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 22, 2020 20:26:16 GMT
Best player I've ever seen and I saw Pele, Cruyff, Best and many more. He was a footballing genius, no doubt.
I was bowled over by the Documentary BUT just seeing the guy in action is jaw dropping. They tried to kick lumps out of him too. Its an insight into an era and curiously Maradona wasn't really a cheat when it came to playacting and simulating on the field. He used skip over horrendous challenges.
The story writes itself in some ways but what a story. The Napoli era is just mind boggling. An average side (bar him) win a title twice, that was when those Italian teams (Milan, Juve) were giants. The fact that he did drugs all week as well is just mad. They were the opposite of performance enhancing!
He just made terrible decisions off the pitch and the mafia screwed him. Part victim, part self destruct.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 23, 2020 9:41:25 GMT
The suggestions of his transfer fee being mafia money actually exacerbates his legend. It’s perfectly Maradona.
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