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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2021 8:54:05 GMT
No reason whatsoever to doubt him Despite there being little or no evidence to support what he claims, you've no reason to doubt him. He also claimed that a dinghy full of asylum seekers all tested positive for Covid-19. The Home Office completely refuted this. You had every reason to doubt the HO. Isn't that just the flipside of this..."Is it a case of " we hate Farage, he's a horrible man , so he can't be right on this. And if the evidence says he was, he still wasn't because he doesn't agree with what I want on other things"! No it's deciding Farage in particular must be wrong on everything, particularly on things like invading Iraq, supported by Labour, so we'd better discredit him, even if there is no evidence. Pursued by those who can't let themselves think outside entrenched party lines. Your starting point bi's " Farage must be wrong". Anyway I'll leave it with you, in your own world.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 1, 2021 9:16:01 GMT
Despite there being little or no evidence to support what he claims, you've no reason to doubt him. He also claimed that a dinghy full of asylum seekers all tested positive for Covid-19. The Home Office completely refuted this. You had every reason to doubt the HO. Isn't that just the flipside of this..."Is it a case of " we hate Farage, he's a horrible man , so he can't be right on this. And if the evidence says he was, he still wasn't because he doesn't agree with what I want on other things"! No it's deciding Farage in particular must be wrong on everything, particularly on things like invading Iraq, supported by Labour, so we'd better discredit him, even if there is no evidence. Pursued by those who can't let themselves think outside entrenched party lines. Your starting point bi's " Farage must be wrong". Anyway I'll leave it with you, in your own world. That's just two sides of the same coin, John. You'll always choose to believe Farage because you love him, others will choose not to because they hate him. Interesting that you'll choose to disbelieve the HO on the basis of...well, nothing more than that you want to believe your man to be correct, so anything that might challenge that has to be disbelieved...like I said, same approach, different side.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2021 9:24:41 GMT
No it's deciding Farage in particular must be wrong on everything, particularly on things like invading Iraq, supported by Labour, so we'd better discredit him, even if there is no evidence. Pursued by those who can't let themselves think outside entrenched party lines. Your starting point bi's " Farage must be wrong". Anyway I'll leave it with you, in your own world. That's just two sides of the same coin, John. You'll always choose to believe Farage because you love him, others will choose not to because they hate him. Interesting that you'll choose to disbelieve the HO on the basis of...well, nothing more than that you want to believe your man to be correct, so anything that might challenge that has to be disbelieved...like I said, same approach, different side. No it isn't, it's as I've said a case of we must discredit Farage, even if we have no evidence ( please reread, repeat ad infinitum after your next response) If you actually read this particular of a thread, I have questioned the truth of the claim, but also would question the HO...of course thst doesn’t fit the agenda. And of course Farage is correct to draw attention to the Channel crossings. Anyway, I have better things to do today.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 1, 2021 11:42:45 GMT
That's just two sides of the same coin, John. You'll always choose to believe Farage because you love him, others will choose not to because they hate him. Interesting that you'll choose to disbelieve the HO on the basis of...well, nothing more than that you want to believe your man to be correct, so anything that might challenge that has to be disbelieved...like I said, same approach, different side. No it isn't, it's as I've said a case of we must discredit Farage, even if we have no evidence ( please reread, repeat ad infinitum after your next response) If you actually read this particular of a thread, I have questioned the truth of the claim, but also would question the HO...of course thst doesn’t fit the agenda. And of course Farage is correct to draw attention to the Channel crossings. Anyway, I have better things to do today. Whereas, in the case of the dinghy full of Covid sufferers, we must discredit the HO (and by inference, believe Farage) even if we have no evidence to do so, but believe him when he says he was against the Iraq and Libyan wars, even if we have no evidence to do so....see the contrast?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 1, 2021 11:50:08 GMT
The (albeit not very substantial) evidence suggests that UKIP were in favour of the Iraq war, given that two of their three MEPs voted for it. It's also possible they had no policy and let their MEPs vote as they wanted. For Libya it seems there is no evidence either way. I don't think checking the accuracy of his (or anyone's) statements is trying to catch him out, it's just checking that a politician is telling the truth. As has been stated earlier in this thread, they are very often lying so it's important to not just believe whatever they say without some evidence to back it up. I think you've misunderstood me in terms of Farage changing his mind. He's of course free to change his mind on any subject he wishes, and if he was initially behind the Iraq war and then changed his mind when he saw the consequences then that wouldn't be uncommon or anything unusual. I was just checking whether he was always anti-Iraq and Libyan intervention like he said, or if he was trying to rewrite historical fact. To use your Corbyn analogy, he was entitled to change his mind about (in this case) the EU but if he tried to convince everyone he's always been pro-EU he would rightly get fact-checked on it (and shown to be talking bollocks). Rip , as far as I am aware Farage has consistently been against intervention in those wars , those clips that were posted consistently show it. Farage , as with other parties, had disagreements with fellow UKIP members on a range of issues, as do other parties( If the party voted in favour of the war on Iraq, it doesn't follow that all the members are in favour, UKIP in any case were a new party, largely single issue so could have bedfellows from across the political spectrum, but united on the same common issue( Hence, not UKIP, but Clare Fox, George Galloway and Farage were able to work together extremely well but poles apart on other issues....which does illustrate the problems with party politics). I think it is a clear case of trying to get Farage when all the evidence seems to say that he was against the wars. And there may have been other reason why Farage chose not to take part in EU voting.eg he did not want to acknowledge the role of the EU in respect of jurisdiction/ relationship with the UK.Is it a case of " we hate Farage, he's a horrible man , so he can't be right on this. And if the evidence says he was, he still wasn't because he doesn't agree with what I want on other things" It might just be that he couldn't be bothered in fairness. In his time as an MEP of the 751 members he ranked 745th in terms of the number of votes he turned up for........(source votewatch.eu)
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2021 13:40:20 GMT
Rip , as far as I am aware Farage has consistently been against intervention in those wars , those clips that were posted consistently show it. Farage , as with other parties, had disagreements with fellow UKIP members on a range of issues, as do other parties( If the party voted in favour of the war on Iraq, it doesn't follow that all the members are in favour, UKIP in any case were a new party, largely single issue so could have bedfellows from across the political spectrum, but united on the same common issue( Hence, not UKIP, but Clare Fox, George Galloway and Farage were able to work together extremely well but poles apart on other issues....which does illustrate the problems with party politics). I think it is a clear case of trying to get Farage when all the evidence seems to say that he was against the wars. And there may have been other reason why Farage chose not to take part in EU voting.eg he did not want to acknowledge the role of the EU in respect of jurisdiction/ relationship with the UK.Is it a case of " we hate Farage, he's a horrible man , so he can't be right on this. And if the evidence says he was, he still wasn't because he doesn't agree with what I want on other things" It might just be that he couldn't be bothered in fairness. In his time as an MEP of the 751 members he ranked 745th in terms of the number of votes he turned up for........(source votewatch.eu) Yes, he did his job excellently, achieved his goal and got us out of the EU....that was the aim, not to take part in the project.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 1, 2021 13:48:49 GMT
It might just be that he couldn't be bothered in fairness. In his time as an MEP of the 751 members he ranked 745th in terms of the number of votes he turned up for........(source votewatch.eu) Yes, he did his job excellently, achieved his goal and got us out of the EU....that was the aim, not to take part in the project. Surely his goal was to see an economically prosperous UK outside of the EU John? In which case we're only half way there. He was always happy to take the daily allowance whether he turned up or not though I see, good Old Nige......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2021 13:56:18 GMT
Yes, he did his job excellently, achieved his goal and got us out of the EU....that was the aim, not to take part in the project. Surely his goal was to see an economically prosperous UK outside of the EU John? In which case we're only half way there. He was always happy to take the daily allowance whether he turned up or not though I see, good Old Nige...... No. Good old Nige has done his job brilliantly on behalf of ordinary people unlike good old Jeremy, hence why people need to attack him.....and he may be proved to do the same in respect of illegal immigration.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 1, 2021 13:59:22 GMT
Surely his goal was to see an economically prosperous UK outside of the EU John? In which case we're only half way there. He was always happy to take the daily allowance whether he turned up or not though I see, good Old Nige...... No. Good old Nige has done his job brilliantly on behalf of ordinary people unlike good old Jeremy, hence why people need to attack him.....and he may be proved to do the same in respect of illegal immigration. You're very protective of old Nige, and extremely cranky on here these days John if I may be so bold. And there you go again mentioning Corbyn (I'm assuming you didn't mean Vine, Hunt, former local cricketer Snape or any other Jeremy)
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2021 15:50:20 GMT
No. Good old Nige has done his job brilliantly on behalf of ordinary people unlike good old Jeremy, hence why people need to attack him.....and he may be proved to do the same in respect of illegal immigration. You're very protective of old Nige, and extremely cranky on here these days John if I may be so bold. And there you go again mentioning Corbyn (I'm assuming you didn't mean Vine, Hunt, former local cricketer Snape or any other Jeremy) Just comparing party leaders, both of whom have made a living out of politics. I Know that Mr Corbyn is dear to your heart.....but perhaps you are right, he isn't relevant, perhaps should not be mentioned.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 1, 2021 15:59:36 GMT
You're very protective of old Nige, and extremely cranky on here these days John if I may be so bold. And there you go again mentioning Corbyn (I'm assuming you didn't mean Vine, Hunt, former local cricketer Snape or any other Jeremy) Just comparing party leaders, both of whom have made a living out of politics. I Know that Mr Corbyn is dear to your heart.....but perhaps you are right, he isn't relevant, perhaps should not be mentioned. As a leader I believe he showed way too many weaknesses and have said that all along, as a person I believe it's an absolute scandal the way he's been treated and will continue to take that stance until someone shows me evidence otherwise. Not sure of the relevance though as I keep saying but you keep trying to use him as some kind of stick to beat me with Neither are party leaders by the way John, I think you're a bit out of touch my friend.......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2021 16:25:18 GMT
Just comparing party leaders, both of whom have made a living out of politics. I Know that Mr Corbyn is dear to your heart.....but perhaps you are right, he isn't relevant, perhaps should not be mentioned. As a leader I believe he showed way too many weaknesses and have said that all along, as a person I believe it's an absolute scandal the way he's been treated and will continue to take that stance until someone shows me evidence otherwise. Not sure of the relevance though as I keep saying but you keep trying to use him as some kind of stick to beat me with Neither are party leaders by the way John, I think you're a bit out of touch my friend....... Are you sure it's not you who is cranky, I'd say thst Farage is the leader of the Reform party and the other man used to be a leader of the party he turned into a busted flush...
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 1, 2021 16:30:47 GMT
As a leader I believe he showed way too many weaknesses and have said that all along, as a person I believe it's an absolute scandal the way he's been treated and will continue to take that stance until someone shows me evidence otherwise. Not sure of the relevance though as I keep saying but you keep trying to use him as some kind of stick to beat me with Neither are party leaders by the way John, I think you're a bit out of touch my friend....... Are you sure it's not you who is cranky, I'd say thst Farage is the leader of the Reform party and the other man used to be a leader of the party he turned into a busted flush... I think Labour have been a busted flush since they completely lost Scotland 12/15 years ago John. Have you checked Farage's dinghy got back ok today? We wouldn't want him blowing out to sea now......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2021 16:39:49 GMT
Are you sure it's not you who is cranky, I'd say thst Farage is the leader of the Reform party and the other man used to be a leader of the party he turned into a busted flush... I think Labour have been a busted flush since they completely lost Scotland 15 years ago John. Have you checked Farage's dinghy got back ok today? We wouldn't want him blowing out to sea now...... Good, nothing to do with your hero then. Yes , Nigel is fine. Hehas let me know that he is breaking the rules and having a pint and a pub lunch, but asked me to keep it quiet.( He says " thanks for asking about him")
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 1, 2021 16:48:52 GMT
I think Labour have been a busted flush since they completely lost Scotland 15 years ago John. Have you checked Farage's dinghy got back ok today? We wouldn't want him blowing out to sea now...... Good, nothing to do with your hero then. Yes , Nigel is fine. Hehas let me know that he is breaking the rules and having a pint and a pub lunch, but asked me to keep it quiet.( He says " thanks for asking about him") My hero is Mark Stein. Tell him to lay of the fags, that throaty laugh he has is concerning me......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2021 17:42:58 GMT
Don't be ashamed of Jeremy, he meant well.
I met Mark once, on one of those organised tours (actually organised for a friend with terminal cancer) in the dressing room just before a match
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