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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 30, 2020 10:28:20 GMT
Another script idea that would have been rejected by The Day Today. This inhumane, brutal, bunch of right wing bastards have gone way beyond parody No truth in the rumour that Boris has suggested building a bridge to Ascension Island to save on the transport costs...
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 20, 2020 16:54:49 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 27, 2020 18:05:23 GMT
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 29, 2020 8:25:05 GMT
That moment where a young, compassionate, well informed and intelligent woman corrects a heartless, misinformed old bigot and shoves that dog whistle right back up her arsehole
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 29, 2020 8:47:13 GMT
Quite surprised that none of the Brexiteers have commented on here on the recent quiet dropping of the salary cap from £35k to £25k for skilled workers and to £20k for unskilled economic migrants...
I guess immigration is a nice dog whistle to use when you need to, let's say to persuade people to vote in a certain way, but when it's obvious that your actual economic health (and profits) depend to some extent on these people, and enough emphasis is subsequently diverted away from immigration and onto the EU as being the bad boys in the negotiations, it'll quietly disappear as an issue.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 29, 2020 9:45:43 GMT
Quite surprised that none of the Brexiteers have commented on here on the recent quiet dropping of the salary cap from £35k to £25k for skilled workers and to £20k for unskilled economic migrants... I guess immigration is a nice dog whistle to use when you need to, let's say to persuade people to vote in a certain way, but when it's obvious that your actual economic health (and profits) depend to some extent on these people, and enough emphasis is subsequently diverted away from immigration and onto the EU as being the bad boys in the negotiations, it'll quietly disappear as an issue. Do you think that we should have an immigration policy? Now that we have left the EU, what do you think it should be?
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 29, 2020 9:48:24 GMT
That moment where a young, compassionate, well informed and intelligent woman corrects a heartless, misinformed old bigot and shoves that dog whistle right back up her arsehole Young compassionate activist drawing a hefty government funded charity salary while waiting to get on the real gravy train of being an MP more like. That clip is also old and recorded before yesterday as I was flicking between planet rock, lbc and talk radio this morning and caught her talking again today she seemed to be struggling to explain why France wasn't safe. To be honest the number of people crossing the channel is very small, australia have shown if you basically tell people if they try and enter by boat like this then you are automatically deported it stops people trying and in some cases dying and human trafficers profiting but equally you then need to put in place processes to make it easier for genuine refugees or people in fear of their lives to get here safely.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 29, 2020 9:58:57 GMT
That moment where a young, compassionate, well informed and intelligent woman corrects a heartless, misinformed old bigot and shoves that dog whistle right back up her arsehole Young compassionate activist drawing a hefty government funded charity salary while waiting to get on the real gravy train of being an MP more like. That clip is also old and recorded before yesterday as I was flicking between planet rock, lbc and talk radio this morning and caught her talking again today she seemed to be struggling to explain why France wasn't safe. To be honest the number of people crossing the channel is very small, australia have shown if you basically tell people if they try and enter by boat like this then you are automatically deported it stops people trying and in some cases dying and human trafficers profiting but equally you then need to put in place processes to make it easier for genuine refugees or people in fear of their lives to get here safely. Poor old Julia Heartless Brewer and her dog whistle. Made an absolute tit of.
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 29, 2020 10:08:27 GMT
Young compassionate activist drawing a hefty government funded charity salary while waiting to get on the real gravy train of being an MP more like. That clip is also old and recorded before yesterday as I was flicking between planet rock, lbc and talk radio this morning and caught her talking again today she seemed to be struggling to explain why France wasn't safe. To be honest the number of people crossing the channel is very small, australia have shown if you basically tell people if they try and enter by boat like this then you are automatically deported it stops people trying and in some cases dying and human trafficers profiting but equally you then need to put in place processes to make it easier for genuine refugees or people in fear of their lives to get here safely. Poor old Julia Heartless Brewer and her dog whistle. Made an absolute tit of. Yes she did but its slightly dishonest for people to start retweeting it on the same day people died with the implication it was a response to that when the attached link shows actual discussion about it but France is not safe she couldn't really explain that.....
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 29, 2020 10:26:47 GMT
Quite surprised that none of the Brexiteers have commented on here on the recent quiet dropping of the salary cap from £35k to £25k for skilled workers and to £20k for unskilled economic migrants... I guess immigration is a nice dog whistle to use when you need to, let's say to persuade people to vote in a certain way, but when it's obvious that your actual economic health (and profits) depend to some extent on these people, and enough emphasis is subsequently diverted away from immigration and onto the EU as being the bad boys in the negotiations, it'll quietly disappear as an issue. Do you think that we should have an immigration policy? Now that we have left the EU, what do you think it should be? Yes. Like every country does! A coherent one that doesn't change on a regular basis now that those people who came running when the dog whistle blew can be quietly forgotten about now their votes have been harvested and profits appear to matter more again! That'd be a good place to start! You tell me though, John, you've got what you wanted. Which is why seeing whether the government is delivering your idea of Brexit, and what impact that will have, is sensible.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 29, 2020 10:39:22 GMT
Do you think that we should have an immigration policy? Now that we have left the EU, what do you think it should be? Yes. Like every country does! A coherent one that doesn't change on a regular basis now that those people who came running when the dog whistle blew can be quietly forgotten about now their votes have been harvested and profits appear to matter more again! That'd be a good place to start! You tell me though, John, you've got what you wanted. Which is why seeing whether the government is delivering your idea of Brexit, and what impact that will have, is sensible. I agree we should have a coherent policy. That's got nothing to do with Brexit, as such , except to say at the next election, all and any political parties can put forward their policy and the electorate can decide, if indeed immigration is their priority. I don't quite understand your last paragraph but if it is a repetition of what you've asked before I'm waiting to see what develops over the next few months or indeed years as we , hopefully, reassert our democracy. I'm not particularly excited about the anticipation, but clearly if you keep wanting to prove" I was right about Brexit all along"...I don't see any problem with you satisfying yourself to that effect. What I would say, the more the " Left " continue along those lines , the further they will grow away from the electorate.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 29, 2020 13:32:44 GMT
Immigration was absolutely central to the Brexit issue, it doesn't matter if anyone now wants to pretend otherwise, all the independent studies carried out at the time and afterwards demonstrated that that was the case. Pressure was on the govt to amend the immigration system as a result of what was expressed during the referendum and the reasons given for voting Leave.
It's funny how it's almost completely disappeared as an issue now however.
If that fundamental aspect of Brexit can be watered down and pushed aside, seems reasonable to me to see what else might eventually be delivered or not compared to what was sold...
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Post by walstoke on Oct 29, 2020 14:40:20 GMT
Immigration was absolutely central to the Brexit issue, it doesn't matter if anyone now wants to pretend otherwise, all the independent studies carried out at the time and afterwards demonstrated that that was the case. Pressure was on the govt to amend the immigration system as a result of what was expressed during the referendum and the reasons given for voting Leave. It's funny how it's almost completely disappeared as an issue now however. If that fundamental aspect of Brexit can be watered down and pushed aside, seems reasonable to me to see what else might eventually be delivered or not compared to what was sold... I'm a leave voter, but you are 100% correct. The only reason Cameron called the referendum was immigration coz the EU wouldn't budge. The only reason I voted to leave, was my dislike of the people running the Eu and their obvious dislike of British people.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 12, 2020 11:28:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 13:04:35 GMT
More poor bastards trying to flee the most lawless, fractured place on earth. Escaping people smugglers, sex traffickers and fighting between sides that don't even know what they're fighting for anymore truth be told. Well done Obama, Cameron and Sarkozy, give yourselves a pat on the back from the comfort of your pleasant countryside retreats.....
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 12, 2020 13:30:13 GMT
More poor bastards trying to flee the most lawless, fractured place on earth. Escaping people smugglers, sex traffickers and fighting between sides that don't even know what they're fighting for anymore truth be told. Well done Obama, Cameron and Sarkozy, give yourselves a pat on the back from the comfort of your pleasant countryside retreats..... We do need to pragmatically stop the practice because people are dying ,irrespective of the root causes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 13:36:09 GMT
More poor bastards trying to flee the most lawless, fractured place on earth. Escaping people smugglers, sex traffickers and fighting between sides that don't even know what they're fighting for anymore truth be told. Well done Obama, Cameron and Sarkozy, give yourselves a pat on the back from the comfort of your pleasant countryside retreats..... We do need to pragmatically stop the practice because people are dying ,irrespective of the root causes. They're dying anyway John, it's why most are taking the risk in the first place......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 12, 2020 13:40:22 GMT
We do need to pragmatically stop the practice because people are dying ,irrespective of the root causes. They're dying anyway John, it's why most are taking the risk in the first place...... I don't think adding to their risk is the answer though, although this is the Mediterranean, obviously I am thinking of the Channel crossings. I do agree with you and Farage though
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 12, 2020 13:45:52 GMT
We do need to pragmatically stop the practice because people are dying ,irrespective of the root causes. They're dying anyway John, it's why most are taking the risk in the first place...... It does seem as though the EU are catching up a bit....... Throughout the meeting hosted by French President Macron, the latter also reiterated his stance on the EU external borders and the need to tighten controls, calling for a “rapid and coordinated” response and denounced what he described as the “misuse” of Europe’s asylum provisions. “In all of our countries we are witnessing a misuse of the right to asylum,” he said, claiming that traffickers, criminal gangs, and people from countries “which are not at war” are among those misusing the asylum laws of the EU, The Local DE reports. Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte also supported the idea of strengthening the common zone’s borders with the non-EU countries. ......... Merkel Backs Macron’s Request for Border Reform After Terrorist Attacks - SchengenVisaInfo.com www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/merkel-backs-macrons-request-for-border-reform-after-terrorist-attacks/
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 13:49:03 GMT
They're dying anyway John, it's why most are taking the risk in the first place...... It does seem as though the EU are catching up a bit....... Throughout the meeting hosted by French President Macron, the latter also reiterated his stance on the EU external borders and the need to tighten controls, calling for a “rapid and coordinated” response and denounced what he described as the “misuse” of Europe’s asylum provisions. “In all of our countries we are witnessing a misuse of the right to asylum,” he said, claiming that traffickers, criminal gangs, and people from countries “which are not at war” are among those misusing the asylum laws of the EU, The Local DE reports. Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte also supported the idea of strengthening the common zone’s borders with the non-EU countries. ......... Merkel Backs Macron’s Request for Border Reform After Terrorist Attacks - SchengenVisaInfo.com www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/merkel-backs-macrons-request-for-border-reform-after-terrorist-attacks/In the case of Libya (which relates to your original link) is he suggesting they aren't at war?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 12, 2020 14:03:22 GMT
It does seem as though the EU are catching up a bit....... Throughout the meeting hosted by French President Macron, the latter also reiterated his stance on the EU external borders and the need to tighten controls, calling for a “rapid and coordinated” response and denounced what he described as the “misuse” of Europe’s asylum provisions. “In all of our countries we are witnessing a misuse of the right to asylum,” he said, claiming that traffickers, criminal gangs, and people from countries “which are not at war” are among those misusing the asylum laws of the EU, The Local DE reports. Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte also supported the idea of strengthening the common zone’s borders with the non-EU countries. ......... Merkel Backs Macron’s Request for Border Reform After Terrorist Attacks - SchengenVisaInfo.com www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/merkel-backs-macrons-request-for-border-reform-after-terrorist-attacks/In the case of Libya (which relates to your original link) is he suggesting they aren't at war? I think that he is saying that countries( in this case the EU) should tighten their borders to reduce the possibility of illegal traffickers. Personally I'd take a wide but pragmatic interpretation of what he is saying...control borders, stop the unregulated, often risky entry....you tell me, I don't know what he is suggesting in respect of genuine asylum seekers/ Libya. Applying the principle to the Channel crossings, they should be stopped and France should help to do so....they are leaving a safe country and putting themselves at unnecessary risk.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 13, 2020 7:48:00 GMT
Quite surprised that none of the Brexiteers have commented on here on the recent quiet dropping of the salary cap from £35k to £25k for skilled workers and to £20k for unskilled economic migrants... I guess immigration is a nice dog whistle to use when you need to, let's say to persuade people to vote in a certain way, but when it's obvious that your actual economic health (and profits) depend to some extent on these people, and enough emphasis is subsequently diverted away from immigration and onto the EU as being the bad boys in the negotiations, it'll quietly disappear as an issue. Do you think that we should have an immigration policy? Now that we have left the EU, what do you think it should be? We should sign up to the single market to massively benefit our economy, and as part of it keep free movement of workers, to also massively benefit our economy. No brainer really. We could perhaps strengthen aspects of our rules to non-EU citizens who, whilst on average costing less than the average Brit to the economy, they certainly do not benefit our economy as much as average EU migrants. This would be a humane system that benefits our economy and requires no expensive, bureaucratic and difficult changes and the endless litigation that will follow. Best of all worlds
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 13, 2020 7:55:27 GMT
In the case of Libya (which relates to your original link) is he suggesting they aren't at war? I think that he is saying that countries( in this case the EU) should tighten their borders to reduce the possibility of illegal traffickers. Personally I'd take a wide but pragmatic interpretation of what he is saying...control borders, stop the unregulated, often risky entry....you tell me, I don't know what he is suggesting in respect of genuine asylum seekers/ Libya. Applying the principle to the Channel crossings, they should be stopped and France should help to do so....they are leaving a safe country and putting themselves at unnecessary risk. How many illegal immigrants walk through borders? How would tightening borders protect against that? Tightening our border won’t stop boats of migrants, nor will tightening of borders in Europe. Reducing wars and impact of climate change in poor countries will reduce numbers of migrants/refugees. The way to solve it is for us to take our fair share (which we do not do) and for countries to work together to make these nations where they are fleeing more attractive for them to stay in. If they are willing to pay every penny they have and risk the lives of their children to get out, think how bad it must be in their home nation.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 13, 2020 8:46:02 GMT
I think that he is saying that countries( in this case the EU) should tighten their borders to reduce the possibility of illegal traffickers. Personally I'd take a wide but pragmatic interpretation of what he is saying...control borders, stop the unregulated, often risky entry....you tell me, I don't know what he is suggesting in respect of genuine asylum seekers/ Libya. Applying the principle to the Channel crossings, they should be stopped and France should help to do so....they are leaving a safe country and putting themselves at unnecessary risk. How many illegal immigrants walk through borders? How would tightening borders protect against that? Tightening our border won’t stop boats of migrants, nor will tightening of borders in Europe. Reducing wars and impact of climate change in poor countries will reduce numbers of migrants/refugees. The way to solve it is for us to take our fair share (which we do not do) and for countries to work together to make these nations where they are fleeing more attractive for them to stay in. If they are willing to pay every penny they have and risk the lives of their children to get out, think how bad it must be in their home nation. I am probably as aware as you are about how bad it is in their home countries Oggy. I agree with Farage that we should not have interfered in the first place. We are a small country, we can't dive world problems, we can't even solve our own. The crossing of the Channel from a safe country, France, needs stopping for the same reasons that Macron gives for tightening the EU borders...it encourages the traffickers, as well as putting lives at risk , never mind increasing the possibility of terrorist infiltration ( Macron’s words).
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 13, 2020 8:55:59 GMT
Do you think that we should have an immigration policy? Now that we have left the EU, what do you think it should be? We should sign up to the single market to massively benefit our economy, and as part of it keep free movement of workers, to also massively benefit our economy. No brainer really. We could perhaps strengthen aspects of our rules to non-EU citizens who, whilst on average costing less than the average Brit to the economy, they certainly do not benefit our economy as much as average EU migrants. This would be a humane system that benefits our economy and requires no expensive, bureaucratic and difficult changes and the endless litigation that will follow. Best of all worlds You mention free movement of workers, completely different from free movement of people. We could have a free trade deal with the EU/ single market if the EU would accept our full independence.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 13, 2020 9:03:44 GMT
How many illegal immigrants walk through borders? How would tightening borders protect against that? Tightening our border won’t stop boats of migrants, nor will tightening of borders in Europe. Reducing wars and impact of climate change in poor countries will reduce numbers of migrants/refugees. The way to solve it is for us to take our fair share (which we do not do) and for countries to work together to make these nations where they are fleeing more attractive for them to stay in. If they are willing to pay every penny they have and risk the lives of their children to get out, think how bad it must be in their home nation. I am probably as aware as you are about how bad it is in their home countries Oggy. I agree with Farage that we should not have interfered in the first place. We are a small country, we can't dive world problems, we can't even solve our own. The crossing of the Channel from a safe country, France, needs stopping for the same reasons that Macron gives for tightening the EU borders...it encourages the traffickers, as well as putting lives at risk , never mind increasing the possibility of terrorist infiltration ( Macron’s words). We agree on the interventions. I’m not sure a trafficker will be put off by stricter borders as they tend not to use legal borders. Perhaps it would help. But am I right that borders have frequently been closed/tighter in mainland Europe because of Covid and that hasn’t stopped the crossings. You would have thought that better collaboration with the French could be done to reduce the attempted crossings. If UK asylum could be applied for in France, that may help (I acknowledge that they shouldn’t be trying to leave a safe country of France for here but clearly that rule does not work). People want to come here because of colonial routes and language, despite our comparatively less generous benefits system with France and Germany
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 13, 2020 9:16:12 GMT
We should sign up to the single market to massively benefit our economy, and as part of it keep free movement of workers, to also massively benefit our economy. No brainer really. We could perhaps strengthen aspects of our rules to non-EU citizens who, whilst on average costing less than the average Brit to the economy, they certainly do not benefit our economy as much as average EU migrants. This would be a humane system that benefits our economy and requires no expensive, bureaucratic and difficult changes and the endless litigation that will follow. Best of all worlds You mention free movement of workers, completely different from free movement of people. We could have a free trade deal with the EU/ single market if the EU would accept our full independence. We have never been part of schengen and have actively chosen not to enforce free movement rules here during eu membership. I’m not saying sign up to schengen (free movement of persons), but have free movement for workers (like now) but enforce the rules No nation is sovereign. We could have all the money and resources on earth if countries signed up to trade agreements giving everything to us. Strangely they don’t.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 13, 2020 9:48:09 GMT
You mention free movement of workers, completely different from free movement of people. We could have a free trade deal with the EU/ single market if the EU would accept our full independence. We have never been part of schengen and have actively chosen not to enforce free movement rules here during eu membership. I’m not saying sign up to schengen (free movement of persons), but have free movement for workers (like now) but enforce the rules No nation is sovereign. We could have all the money and resources on earth if countries signed up to trade agreements giving everything to us. Strangely they don’t. Of course if ,say, a Polish lorry driver , drives into the country, they should have free passage. That's the case now. The UK should fully control its own borders without reference to anything else, including schengen. No real point in hypothetically discussing what is meant by Sovereignty with you.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 13, 2020 10:02:51 GMT
We have never been part of schengen and have actively chosen not to enforce free movement rules here during eu membership. I’m not saying sign up to schengen (free movement of persons), but have free movement for workers (like now) but enforce the rules No nation is sovereign. We could have all the money and resources on earth if countries signed up to trade agreements giving everything to us. Strangely they don’t. Of course if ,say, a Polish lorry driver , drives into the country, they should have free passage. That's the case now. The UK should fully control its own borders without reference to anything else, including schengen. No real point in hypothetically discussing what is meant by Sovereignty with you. Exactly. As the independent and sovereign nation we are, we should choose to sign up to the single market and the immigration rules that accompany it and all be better off for it.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 21, 2020 14:16:45 GMT
A tragedy for those who died in the lorry. An horrific death. Some very young, with families. Exploited by people traffickers. I guess they wanted a better life in Britain. Perhaps they have family here? They were already in France and Belgium, safe countries. What are they fleeing from in Vietnam? How many have actually come into the country that we don't know about? Essex lorry deaths: Two men guilty of killing 39 migrants found in back of trailer The Vietnamese migrants - 28 men, eight women and three children aged between 15 and 44 - were found dead in the back of a lorry trailer in Grays, Essex, as the temperature inside reached an 'unbearable' 38.5C f7td5.app.goo.gl/k5UBhj
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