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Butland
Feb 29, 2020 18:36:32 GMT
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Post by GeneralFaye on Feb 29, 2020 18:36:32 GMT
How can you defend him today? Second half he was a shambles at everything he had to do. Some blamed him because he didn’t stop the pen(as ever) that’s all. Well, his record is abysmal but I was referring to the rest of his game.
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Post by skelman on Feb 29, 2020 18:40:28 GMT
Was able to have a close look at him today like you can't at many stadiums. He is shot. Confidence non existent and all but gone as a top keeper. It gives me no pleasure to say it because he seems decent fella but we need a new keeper. I remember listening to a Radio 5 live program on recruitment, many years ago. Not long after we got into the PL. TP was interviewed amongst others. One bloke on there was an ex Sheffield Wednesday scout who mentioned Jack Butland (think the scout's second name was Lee) when he was out at Cheltenham on loan as a youngster. He mentioned that one particular game he made a huge mistake and spent the rest of that half kicking the floor and chewing his gloves, which according to him is a sure sign for any scout worth his salt that the player is a naturally nervous player who struggles mentally with pressure. At the time I thought the scout was being harsh as Butland was only a really young lad at the time, but who knows, maybe it is rearing it's head again inside Jack. He was awful in the PL when under this type of pressure. He does absolutely nothing of note regularly that inspires confidence in me. Really frustrating as the last home game he was superb. Correct, he played well against Charlton. He had better control of the 6 yd area and came out to punch and collect crosses well. Problem is both we and our defence never know which Jack is going to turn up from 1 game to another. You'd have thought he'd have built on that Charlton display but then we get the spills etc in the next 2 games just as we have for well over 2 seasons now. I question his mentality too. He exaggerates some of the simplest of saves by falling forwards to smother the ball and then staying down for what seems ages. His distribution is slow albeit a bit more accurate than it has been and he's always got a cock up kick in a match. Neither is he very happy to be told what he's doing wrong by any of the back four. Yes he's made some really good saves in some games but I think his head is a rollacoaster. Unfortunately he is a shadow of his former self from before that injury and long lay off.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 18:42:28 GMT
It’s all Butland’s fault again I see🙄 It wasn't his fault directly we didn't win but if you've watched that match and have come away with a conclusion other than Butland was a liability you were watching a different match to me
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Butland
Feb 29, 2020 18:43:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 18:43:58 GMT
Ultimately he’s our best keeper. He’s in the team until May it’s as simple as that.... 3rd best in all probability. I can't imagine for a second Davies can possibly be as bad so often
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Post by liathroid on Feb 29, 2020 18:44:27 GMT
He was sloppy as fuck in the 2nd half ,but it was still nil all even after all his mistakes , it wasnt his fault we drew
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Post by skelman on Feb 29, 2020 18:45:42 GMT
I haven't seen a goalkeeper look as scared as Butland did in the second half since Gomes cried at our place. I have no idea what's going on in his head. Nail on the head. I think Jack is scared. And almost as much as that apology for a footballer Ince. Not that I'd place the two of them in the same category mind you!
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Butland
Feb 29, 2020 18:45:42 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 29, 2020 18:45:42 GMT
Ultimately he’s our best keeper. He’s in the team until May it’s as simple as that.... 3rd best in all probability. I can't imagine for a second Davies can possibly be as bad so often Davies is awful. I really don’t get why we signed him. You just had to watch his highlights to see that he’s an atrocious goalie. I can’t abide Butland but Davies makes him look a world beater.
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Post by adi on Feb 29, 2020 18:49:32 GMT
That’s not a very constructive response mate. He made some very poor claims today and we would’ve lost if not for an offside. You were very quick to jump on people last week and this week have made very little effort at defending today’s display. I think it’s because he was poor really and once again failed to save a penalty, that’s how many conceded versus saved now? I think someone says it’s 40v0 which if true is staggering. I agree his penalty record is horrendous and he never ever looks like saving one.As for jumping on people we’ve conceded 1 goal this week in 270 minutes of football from a stupid tackle from James Chester but yet again Butland is criticised(unnecessarily for me) constantly about his contribution.Some don’t agree that’s fair enough Good to have a debate without abuse on here for a change pal so we’ll agree to disagree I hope and hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend!
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Post by ravey123 on Feb 29, 2020 18:53:39 GMT
I haven't got the time or inclination to check but I think Jack dives to his right in 80% plus of the penalties he has faced - really makes it so easy for the penalty taker. He is the shittest goalkeeper I have EVER seen at facing penalties
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Feb 29, 2020 19:03:11 GMT
I think that injury has ruined his ability to push off on the ankle.
He barely gets off the ground for crosses & only ever dives one way on the penalties.
It’s either his own confidence in the push off or it’s genuinely buggered.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Feb 29, 2020 19:16:50 GMT
That’s not a very constructive response mate. He made some very poor claims today and we would’ve lost if not for an offside. You were very quick to jump on people last week and this week have made very little effort at defending today’s display. I think it’s because he was poor really and once again failed to save a penalty, that’s how many conceded versus saved now? I think someone says it’s 40v0 which if true is staggering. I agree his penalty record is horrendous and he never ever looks like saving one.As for jumping on people we’ve conceded 1 goal this week in 270 minutes of football from a stupid tackle from James Chester but yet again Butland is criticised(unnecessarily for me) constantly about his contribution.Some don’t agree that’s fair enough The bigger picture is that he has only ever had one truly decent season for Stoke and that was the season in which he got injured. It was also the srason he had Wollscheid playing at the heart of his defence.
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Post by loosestools on Feb 29, 2020 19:24:12 GMT
3rd best in all probability. I can't imagine for a second Davies can possibly be as bad so often Davies is awful. I really don’t get why we signed him. You just had to watch his highlights to see that he’s an atrocious goalie. I can’t abide Butland but Davies makes him look a world beater. Why can't you abide him?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 20:11:38 GMT
I haven't got the time or inclination to check but I think Jack dives to his right in 80% plus of the penalties he has faced - really makes it so easy for the penalty taker. He is the shittest goalkeeper I have EVER seen at facing penalties Sadly I thought the same and did have the inclination. As predicted, dived to right almost before ball was kicked. It's almost zoolander esque...has he ever gone left?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 29, 2020 21:31:39 GMT
Davies is awful. I really don’t get why we signed him. You just had to watch his highlights to see that he’s an atrocious goalie. I can’t abide Butland but Davies makes him look a world beater. Why can't you abide him? His on the pitch antics in the last 3 years. The amount of times he’s given the crowd the big un then dropped one in the back of the net is just awful. I think his attitude has stunk the place out for a while now. He’s right up there for me with some of the worst.
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Post by foxysgloves on Mar 1, 2020 1:02:27 GMT
His on the pitch antics in the last 3 years. The amount of times he’s given the crowd the big un then dropped one in the back of the net is just awful. I think his attitude has stunk the place out for a while now. He’s right up there for me with some of the worst. I think he actually cares. But for whatever reason he is struggling for consistency. Certainly not one of the bad guys imo.
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Butland
Mar 1, 2020 1:08:48 GMT
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Post by leegthestokie90 on Mar 1, 2020 1:08:48 GMT
I feel sorry for Davies another big time Charlie is butland can't do anything wrong him he played for England u know lol
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Post by doitforfrank on Mar 1, 2020 1:15:13 GMT
Fact is, Jack was a superb keeper, could have been England's no. 1 for years, then he got injured, and no matter what he says, since that day, his confidence in his body, and in himself has been shot to bits.
This is a guy who should have played at World Cups, but got overtaken. Pickford isn't a great keeper, but he's a more modern, ball playing keeper, or sweeper keeper for the Pep generation.
Poor Jack has been left behind, and he's now a pale imitation of the potential we signed. His England dream had gone, we've killed his premier league dream, with no chance of a top club coming knocking now.
For me it's time to move him out and give a chance to someone else, or at least until he gets his head straight.
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Butland
Mar 1, 2020 1:15:55 GMT
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Post by wilcopotter on Mar 1, 2020 1:15:55 GMT
As Jack ever saved a penalty for Stoke?
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Butland
Mar 1, 2020 1:21:52 GMT
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Post by leegthestokie90 on Mar 1, 2020 1:21:52 GMT
As Jack ever saved a penalty for Stoke? just hazard in cup I think
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Post by lawrieleslie on Mar 1, 2020 7:08:27 GMT
During the latter stages of Mad Nathan’s tenure one of the better things he did was to give Butland a break and bring in Feds. Feds didn’t put a foot wrong and seemed to be instilling a bit of confidence in his defenders and his distribution was sound. Then for some inexplicable reason Delap dropped him for the one game he had in charge before MON was appointed and gave Butland his place back, undeservedly so in my opinion. This is no time for sentiments or allowing Butland chances to get back his confidence by playing him game after game. The immediate answer to this dilemma begins with F and ends in ederici ........in my opinion that is.
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Post by crowey on Mar 1, 2020 7:12:32 GMT
..... Butland needs dropping (again). God knows how he ever got his place back when Fedders was totally sound
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Butland
Mar 1, 2020 7:12:53 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 1, 2020 7:12:53 GMT
I haven't got the time or inclination to check but I think Jack dives to his right in 80% plus of the penalties he has faced - really makes it so easy for the penalty taker. He is the shittest goalkeeper I have EVER seen at facing penalties Sadly I thought the same and did have the inclination. As predicted, dived to right almost before ball was kicked. It's almost zoolander esque...has he ever gone left? He went left v rotherham last season.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 1, 2020 7:14:44 GMT
..... Butland needs dropping (again). God knows how he ever got his place back when Fedders was totally sound 6 defeats in 8 games suggests he was far from "totally sound".
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Butland
Mar 1, 2020 7:19:50 GMT
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Post by crowey on Mar 1, 2020 7:19:50 GMT
..... Butland needs dropping (again). God knows how he ever got his place back when Fedders was totally sound 6 defeats in 8 games suggests he was far from "totally sound". .... didn’t seem that way. Point taken
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Butland
Mar 1, 2020 7:27:33 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 1, 2020 7:27:33 GMT
6 defeats in 8 games suggests he was far from "totally sound". .... didn’t seem that way. Point taken If we had a viable alternative you'd drop Jack in a heartbeat. I'm really not sure we do. My 6 year old is better than Davies and Federici is no great shakes either.
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Post by tosh on Mar 1, 2020 8:52:22 GMT
As Jack ever saved a penalty for Stoke? just hazard in cup I think I think Butland’s league games penalty record for Stoke is none saved out of eighteen attempts. A decent stat is saving 25 % of penalties. Mark Crossley I think saved nearly one third of the penalties he faced. Thomas Sorensen saved approximately 25%. I think he not only nearly always goes to his right, he seems to go early enough for the penalty taker to adjust if necessary. He must surely do better if he just waited for the occasional poor or straight down the middle penalty. He certainly couldn’t do worse!
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Post by robwahlmann on Mar 1, 2020 9:10:31 GMT
I'm more concerned about him having a potential howler every game! At Blackburn he was very lucky with an offside decision, and again the same against Luton where he also dropped a simple cross in the second half. I'm not sure if it's his nerves or focus that is the problem, but he certainly doesn't install any confidence in the defenders in front of him like he is playing right now. Something has certainly happened to his self-confidence. Maybe he should see a shrink?
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Butland
Mar 1, 2020 9:22:45 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 1, 2020 9:22:45 GMT
His on the pitch antics in the last 3 years. The amount of times he’s given the crowd the big un then dropped one in the back of the net is just awful. I think his attitude has stunk the place out for a while now. He’s right up there for me with some of the worst. I think he actually cares. But for whatever reason he is struggling for consistency. Certainly not one of the bad guys imo. I don’t. His crocodile tears were pathetic when we got relegated.
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Butland
Mar 1, 2020 9:25:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 9:25:32 GMT
I think he actually cares. But for whatever reason he is struggling for consistency. Certainly not one of the bad guys imo. I don’t. His crocodile tears were pathetic when we got relegated. I agree but stick your tin hat on for that one. The other clue is his changing of agents. When a player moves from a local agency to one that represented Wayne Rooney then you know exactly what type of fight he is coming for.
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Butland
Mar 1, 2020 9:31:40 GMT
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 1, 2020 9:31:40 GMT
Once a goalkeeper has got the dreaded jitters, it's a long road back. Some manage it (James, Hennesey) others never recover (Wright, Carson). If you're an English goalkeeper, it creeps in during a World Cup year, as it did for Jack.
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