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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 1, 2020 10:04:23 GMT
Fucking play, fucking properly, or get in the fucking U23s for the remainder of your contract. Just imagine if he'd stayed here, knuckled down, been our best midfielder, he might have a promoted side looking at him now, for another tilt at the PL. But no, he's a lower half Championship player again. Same goes for his mate. Let's see how many of the newly-relegated teams have huge issues with players wanting out. When has he not played properly when he’s played? |
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Post by Championship Potter on Aug 1, 2020 10:34:59 GMT
Fair enough on Trabzonspor I just looked though and they have not spent more than £5m on a player ever and that was 12 years ago and as you say they won't come near his wage. Turkey as a country is flaty broke, the football clubs don't have 2 coins to rub together, I just can't see it. So maybe we should just take the bull by the horn and insist that N'diaye must play for us, which, given the cons and pros, might just work out for the best for all. N'diaye gets his wages and a chance to shine on a bigger stage (yes I know it sounds daft that the Championship is a bigger stage than a Turkish team taking part in the Europa, but it's a fact that it is; I don't know why N'diaye's agents cant work it out)) and we get a bloody good player who could help us regain our footing and we get service for the money we pay. Do we know how long he has left on his contract? A standout season in the Championship would give him the perfect platform to secure a lucrative Prem contract on a bosman. If it’s two years, I’d probably even consider adding a low release clause for a Prem team to take him after next season. Surely a good way of getting him playing for a season. |
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Post by bolders on Aug 1, 2020 10:50:40 GMT
So maybe we should just take the bull by the horn and insist that N'diaye must play for us, which, given the cons and pros, might just work out for the best for all. N'diaye gets his wages and a chance to shine on a bigger stage (yes I know it sounds daft that the Championship is a bigger stage than a Turkish team taking part in the Europa, but it's a fact that it is; I don't know why N'diaye's agents cant work it out)) and we get a bloody good player who could help us regain our footing and we get service for the money we pay. Do we know how long he has left on his contract? A standout season in the Championship would give him the perfect platform to secure a lucrative Prem contract on a bosman. If it’s two years, I’d probably even consider adding a low release clause for a Prem team to take him after next season. Surely a good way of getting him playing for a season. Ndiaye 2022 Etebo 2023 |
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Post by mamasgloves on Aug 1, 2020 10:53:20 GMT
Summon them in for training with the rest of the squad. Arrange a meeting with each player and their agent. Play hardball and in no uncertain terms tell them their attitudes need to be spot-on or they will be worked extremely hard and fined two-weeks wages every time they break a rule or step out-of-line. This white never kicking a ball for the Club again unless they show the required 100% commitment to the cause. The alternative being for the agent to secure a permanent move for their player(s), away from the Club, at a level acceptable to the Club. I don't know where this alleged myth of the two of them as rule breakers and step out of liners come from. When they were training and playing - admittedly that wasn't often enough over the length of their contracts - they did more than well as could be expected. They might have shown up a little late after African tournaments, but that is par for the course. Every club has this problem, which passes after a day or two, and a little fine, not out of hand. N'diaye played very well in our relegation season and for the short time under Jones. O'Neill said he was our worst player vs Cardiff, but I'm not so sure. Etebo were some people's PotY candidate last season. Some people may have aggressions because of Imbula et al, but neither player are Imbulas by any stretch. I think if you were to have an intelligent conversation with them and their agent - that would require a lot on both sides - they could be made to understand that it is really in their best interests to turn out for the club. It's easier to think that they are horrible nasty players because they don't actually care about the club, much like 90% of the people on here feel about their employers. They still so their jobs though, just like these two did. A team full of useless triers who run all day is what most seem to want, forgive the rest for daring to dream of more. A manager's job is to manage, Jesus, even Pulis admits to having to adapt his methods for the modern player. Cutting off your nose to spite your face. |
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Post by mamasgloves on Aug 1, 2020 10:56:07 GMT
So maybe we should just take the bull by the horn and insist that N'diaye must play for us, which, given the cons and pros, might just work out for the best for all. N'diaye gets his wages and a chance to shine on a bigger stage (yes I know it sounds daft that the Championship is a bigger stage than a Turkish team taking part in the Europa, but it's a fact that it is; I don't know why N'diaye's agents cant work it out)) and we get a bloody good player who could help us regain our footing and we get service for the money we pay. First game of our first season down we played him and he was dogshit and wasn’t interested and wanted away. We can’t afford to have a passenger That's just bollocks. He put himself forward to play despite carrying an injury, wasn't nearly the worst player on the pitch but was an easy scapegoat |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 10:58:11 GMT
Fucking play, fucking properly, or get in the fucking U23s for the remainder of your contract. Just imagine if he'd stayed here, knuckled down, been our best midfielder, he might have a promoted side looking at him now, for another tilt at the PL. But no, he's a lower half Championship player again. Same goes for his mate. Let's see how many of the newly-relegated teams have huge issues with players wanting out. When has he not played properly when he’s played? I didn't say he hadn't. I'm saying that if he's being brought back, that's what we'd need from him. 110% application. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 11:13:51 GMT
So maybe we should just take the bull by the horn and insist that N'diaye must play for us, which, given the cons and pros, might just work out for the best for all. N'diaye gets his wages and a chance to shine on a bigger stage (yes I know it sounds daft that the Championship is a bigger stage than a Turkish team taking part in the Europa, but it's a fact that it is; I don't know why N'diaye's agents cant work it out)) and we get a bloody good player who could help us regain our footing and we get service for the money we pay. Do we know how long he has left on his contract? A standout season in the Championship would give him the perfect platform to secure a lucrative Prem contract on a bosman. If it’s two years, I’d probably even consider adding a low release clause for a Prem team to take him after next season. Surely a good way of getting him playing for a season. That's what I am getting at. It's believed from transfermarkt that his contract runs another two years. On the other hand he will be 30 when the new season starts, so it's getting where it's his last chance saloon, if he wants to play at a top club. |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 1, 2020 11:20:14 GMT
Let's hope MON can get one of Etebo or Badou on board for the season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 11:23:00 GMT
When has he not played properly when he’s played? I didn't say he hadn't. I'm saying that if he's being brought back, that's what we'd need from him. 110% application. It goes without saying that we should expect exactly the same as with any other player. As I say N'diaye is not Imbula. If you/the club give him due respect, he will duly respect you/us/the club with his performances, as he did in the autumn. |
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Post by thehoof on Aug 1, 2020 12:05:44 GMT
I wonder why?
Perhaps it’s because he’s not actually that good.
Would he add more in an attacking sense than Powell or Clucas. Would he consistently put in the hard yards like Allen?
Does he have any game intelligence or would it be a visit to the manager every two weeks asking for a move?
Not our biggest waste of money by a long shot, but not a game changer either.
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Post by mamasgloves on Aug 1, 2020 12:19:11 GMT
I wonder why? Perhaps it’s because he’s not actually that good. Would he add more in an attacking sense than Powell or Clucas. Would he consistently put in the hard yards like Allen? Does he have any game intelligence or would it be a visit to the manager every two weeks asking for a move? Not our biggest waste of money by a long shot, but not a game changer either. We want to improve the squad and starting XI and he does that. To say "he's not actually that good" while we're starting games with Thompson and Cousins is a bit fucking daft |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 1, 2020 12:26:18 GMT
I wonder why? Perhaps it’s because he’s not actually that good. Would he add more in an attacking sense than Powell or Clucas. Would he consistently put in the hard yards like Allen? Does he have any game intelligence or would it be a visit to the manager every two weeks asking for a move? Not our biggest waste of money by a long shot, but not a game changer either. We want to improve the squad and starting XI and he does that. To say "he's not actually that good" while we're starting games with Thompson and Cousins is a bit fucking daft It is indeed and I think Etebo is (well was until he said he wanted to leave and that makes him shit in the eyes of a lot 😂) overrated by a lot of Stoke fans. His defensive discipline was awful when he first signed but at the start of this season he actually showed he was learning and his all round defensive awareness got a load better. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with him though. |
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Post by EccyStokie on Aug 1, 2020 12:40:50 GMT
First game of our first season down we played him and he was dogshit and wasn’t interested and wanted away. We can’t afford to have a passenger Leeds 3 Stoke 1 - Bielsa's first game in charge. We had a much stronger line-up than we have now and got absolutely rinsed. Shows how much attitude matters in sport IMHO Butland Bauer Shawcross Martins Indi Pieters Allen Ndiaye Substituted for Bojan at 63'minutes Etebo Substituted for Fletcher at 63'minutes Ince Afobe Substituted for Crouch at 76'minutes McClean That lineup had enough ability to win the championship by a mile. Their attitude was/is embarrassing. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 13:59:14 GMT
We want to improve the squad and starting XI and he does that. To say "he's not actually that good" while we're starting games with Thompson and Cousins is a bit fucking daft It is indeed and I think Etebo is (well was until he said he wanted to leave and that makes him shit in the eyes of a lot 😂) overrated by a lot of Stoke fans. His defensive discipline was awful when he first signed but at the start of this season he actually showed he was learning and his all round defensive awareness got a load better. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with him though. He also said he saw himself as a forward. We somehow never played him there and expected him to be a top notch defender.... |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 1, 2020 14:03:54 GMT
It is indeed and I think Etebo is (well was until he said he wanted to leave and that makes him shit in the eyes of a lot 😂) overrated by a lot of Stoke fans. His defensive discipline was awful when he first signed but at the start of this season he actually showed he was learning and his all round defensive awareness got a load better. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with him though. He also said he saw himself as a forward. We somehow never played him there and expected him to be a top notch defender.... He can see himself as whatever he wants but for Nigeria they played him as a central midfielder and he definitely played in a position with defensive duties and he was crap at it hence why I was less than convinced from the get go. Also his best forward stuff comes from deep so again his classification of himself seems fanciful. |
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Post by luke2u on Aug 1, 2020 14:09:13 GMT
Both Etebo and Badou have previously been goalscoring midfielders, but we think we've got two defensive ones. I think this is a bit strange.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 14:11:02 GMT
I wonder why? Perhaps it’s because he’s not actually that good. Would he add more in an attacking sense than Powell or Clucas. Would he consistently put in the hard yards like Allen? Does he have any game intelligence or would it be a visit to the manager every two weeks asking for a move? Not our biggest waste of money by a long shot, but not a game changer either. He doesn't have to be better than Powell or run as aimlessly as Allen. We might just see a better side of him if we played him in his best position and we might see him combining well with Clucas and Powell and score a few goals for us. Someone whether it's his agent, his manager, or a friendly teammate will have to tell him a few simple rules about the transfer system and about contracts. Then we wouldn't see such visits, but you also have to understand things from his point of view. he shook hands on an agreement with Jones. When he was gone, can you blame him for feeling insecure and expressing desire for a better situation... |
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Post by Squeekster on Aug 1, 2020 14:12:02 GMT
Summon them in for training with the rest of the squad. Arrange a meeting with each player and their agent. Play hardball and in no uncertain terms tell them their attitudes need to be spot-on or they will be worked extremely hard and fined two-weeks wages every time they break a rule or step out-of-line. This white never kicking a ball for the Club again unless they show the required 100% commitment to the cause. The alternative being for the agent to secure a permanent move for their player(s), away from the Club, at a level acceptable to the Club. I don't know where this alleged myth of the two of them as rule breakers and step out of liners come from. When they were training and playing - admittedly that wasn't often enough over the length of their contracts - they did more than well as could be expected. They might have shown up a little late after African tournaments, but that is par for the course. Every club has this problem, which passes after a day or two, and a little fine, not out of hand. N'diaye played very well in our relegation season and for the short time under Jones. O'Neill said he was our worst player vs Cardiff, but I'm not so sure. Etebo were some people's PotY candidate last season. Some people may have aggressions because of Imbula et al, but neither player are Imbulas by any stretch. I think if you were to have an intelligent conversation with them and their agent - that would require a lot on both sides - they could be made to understand that it is really in their best interests to turn out for the club. Didn't MON say that Etebo wasn't performing well enough in training to be considered for a start and was less than impressive. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 14:13:07 GMT
Leeds 3 Stoke 1 - Bielsa's first game in charge. We had a much stronger line-up than we have now and got absolutely rinsed. Shows how much attitude matters in sport IMHO Butland Bauer Shawcross Martins Indi Pieters Allen Ndiaye Substituted for Bojan at 63'minutes Etebo Substituted for Fletcher at 63'minutes Ince Afobe Substituted for Crouch at 76'minutes McClean That lineup had enough ability to win the championship by a mile. Their attitude was/is embarrassing. They were 11/14 good players. But they weren't a team. |
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Post by fulagoals on Aug 1, 2020 14:20:48 GMT
Not in MON’s plans.
Neither is N’diaye.
Move on, end of.
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Post by markby on Aug 1, 2020 17:09:34 GMT
Yeah it's always you! No, it doesn't even have anything to do with Etebo. Getafe never had much money in the first place, but with the Covid hitting Spain hard, they simply won't be able to take on Etebo full time unless we give him away for free and pay 98% of his wages. How poverty stricken is this "one of richest leagues in the world"? Getafe are currently 8th and 3-4M would be a stroll in the park for them. Hardly definitive, but at €140m, this list from Transfermarkt has Getafe as the 10th most valuable club in La Liga:
Which sounds impressive until you realise that Real Madrid and Barca are valued at around €1 bn.
As for transfer fees, this summer they've signed Cucurella for €10m, which is also impressive, until you realise (a ) that's the most they've ever spent on a player, and (b ) they've sold 3 other players for €8.5m to finance it:
And for the whole of 2019/20, their entire net spend was €10m, which for a team which finished 5th and qualified for Europe, is peanuts.
Beyond RM, Barca and Atletico, there is little or money in Spanish football, with Getafe in a different league from the likes of Valencia or Sevilla, never mind the Big Three.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Aug 1, 2020 17:17:46 GMT
Let's hope MON can get one of Etebo or Badou on board for the season. Only possible if he sold Allen and Clucas. No way we can afford 4 midfielders earning over £1 million and comply with the profit and sustainability rules |
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Post by thehoof on Aug 1, 2020 17:19:29 GMT
I wonder why? Perhaps it’s because he’s not actually that good. Would he add more in an attacking sense than Powell or Clucas. Would he consistently put in the hard yards like Allen? Does he have any game intelligence or would it be a visit to the manager every two weeks asking for a move? Not our biggest waste of money by a long shot, but not a game changer either. We want to improve the squad and starting XI and he does that. To say "he's not actually that good" while we're starting games with Thompson and Cousins is a bit fucking daft It’s daft? Remind me of our league position when Etebo was starting? Oh, that’s right- rock bottom. We should have carried on with him- now that would have been “fucking daft”. |
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Post by thehoof on Aug 1, 2020 17:27:14 GMT
I wonder why? Perhaps it’s because he’s not actually that good. Would he add more in an attacking sense than Powell or Clucas. Would he consistently put in the hard yards like Allen? Does he have any game intelligence or would it be a visit to the manager every two weeks asking for a move? Not our biggest waste of money by a long shot, but not a game changer either. He doesn't have to be better than Powell or run as aimlessly as Allen. We might just see a better side of him if we played him in his best position and we might see him combining well with Clucas and Powell and score a few goals for us. Someone whether it's his agent, his manager, or a friendly teammate will have to tell him a few simple rules about the transfer system and about contracts. Then we wouldn't see such visits, but you also have to understand things from his point of view. he shook hands on an agreement with Jones. When he was gone, can you blame him for feeling insecure and expressing desire for a better situation... His contract was with Stoke not Nathan Jones. His performances were nothing exceptional- one goal , one missed penalty, one sending off, numerous runs past 2 or 3 but then a woeful final ball either out of play or to the opposition. When players don’t want to play for the club ( as O’Neill told us), then we won’t see the best of him. People are carried away by his good games in the World Cup, but if he was such a good player, he should have had more influence on Stoke games than he did- look at Grealish in Villa’s promotion year. Again, nobody seems to be the slightest bit interested in signing him- why? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 18:04:32 GMT
He doesn't have to be better than Powell or run as aimlessly as Allen. We might just see a better side of him if we played him in his best position and we might see him combining well with Clucas and Powell and score a few goals for us. Someone whether it's his agent, his manager, or a friendly teammate will have to tell him a few simple rules about the transfer system and about contracts. Then we wouldn't see such visits, but you also have to understand things from his point of view. he shook hands on an agreement with Jones. When he was gone, can you blame him for feeling insecure and expressing desire for a better situation... His contract was with Stoke not Nathan Jones. His performances were nothing exceptional- one goal , one missed penalty, one sending off, numerous runs past 2 or 3 but then a woeful final ball either out of play or to the opposition. When players don’t want to play for the club ( as O’Neill told us), then we won’t see the best of him. People are carried away by his good games in the World Cup, but if he was such a good player, he should have had more influence on Stoke games than he did- look at Grealish in Villa’s promotion year. Again, nobody seems to be the slightest bit interested in signing him- why? True but he was at odds with the club, but Jones worked out an agreement - I don't know the wording - which Etebo (and N'diaye) agreed to. It somehow made them agree to stay and fight for the club. I don't recall much about Etebo's games(which would seem to confirm your analysis), but I do remember that Etebo's dismissal was seen as harsh. He missed a penalty, well, who else did not miss a pen for us that season? I thought N'diaye did much better, played out of position, but still our best player in some games. Again I don't know, but I assume they needed a manager who stood up for them, and Jones seemingly did, so when he was sacked, they lost a little more of their footing. O'Neill offered no such thing for them. I don't think it's fair to compare Etebo with Grealish. Etebo is young man, a little lost in an alien culture, whereas Grealish is a lifelong Villa diehard. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 18:12:12 GMT
Let's hope MON can get one of Etebo or Badou on board for the season. Only possible if he sold Allen and Clucas. I like the sound of that. Good idea. |
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Post by thehoof on Aug 1, 2020 18:15:23 GMT
His contract was with Stoke not Nathan Jones. His performances were nothing exceptional- one goal , one missed penalty, one sending off, numerous runs past 2 or 3 but then a woeful final ball either out of play or to the opposition. When players don’t want to play for the club ( as O’Neill told us), then we won’t see the best of him. People are carried away by his good games in the World Cup, but if he was such a good player, he should have had more influence on Stoke games than he did- look at Grealish in Villa’s promotion year. Again, nobody seems to be the slightest bit interested in signing him- why? True but he was at odds with the club, but Jones worked out an agreement - I don't know the wording - which Etebo (and N'diaye) agreed to. It somehow made them agree to stay and fight for the club. I don't recall much about Etebo's games(which would seem to confirm your analysis), but I do remember that Etebo's dismissal was seen as harsh. He missed a penalty, well, who else did not miss a pen for us that season? I thought N'diaye did much better, played out of position, but still our best player in some games. Again I don't know, but I assume they needed a manager who stood up for them, and Jones seemingly did, so when he was sacked, they lost a little more of their footing. O'Neill offered no such thing for them. I don't think it's fair to compare Etebo with Grealish. Etebo is young man, a little lost in an alien culture, whereas Grealish is a lifelong Villa diehard. I take your point about Grealish being a lifelong Villa fan, and to be honest if I thought that there was a cat in hell’s chance of Etebo knuckling down and trying to justify his place in the team, I’d be glad to let him try. I don’t think his heart ( based on O’Neill’s comments) is in it at all, a bit like Ince- we can keep giving them chances and then be disappointed when they don’t produce. Trouble is that we are stuck with players who we can’t get rid of without incurring an FFP loss, and the only respite is to try and loan them out- in Etebo’s case it’s unlikely that a Premier club will come in for him ( Newcastle ?), I don’t think we’d loan him to a Championship club ( probably couldn’t meet his wages), so it only leaves another loan abroad? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 18:40:31 GMT
True but he was at odds with the club, but Jones worked out an agreement - I don't know the wording - which Etebo (and N'diaye) agreed to. It somehow made them agree to stay and fight for the club. I don't recall much about Etebo's games(which would seem to confirm your analysis), but I do remember that Etebo's dismissal was seen as harsh. He missed a penalty, well, who else did not miss a pen for us that season? I thought N'diaye did much better, played out of position, but still our best player in some games. Again I don't know, but I assume they needed a manager who stood up for them, and Jones seemingly did, so when he was sacked, they lost a little more of their footing. O'Neill offered no such thing for them. I don't think it's fair to compare Etebo with Grealish. Etebo is young man, a little lost in an alien culture, whereas Grealish is a lifelong Villa diehard. I take your point about Grealish being a lifelong Villa fan, and to be honest if I thought that there was a cat in hell’s chance of Etebo knuckling down and trying to justify his place in the team, I’d be glad to let him try. I don’t think his heart ( based on O’Neill’s comments) is in it at all, a bit like Ince- we can keep giving them chances and then be disappointed when they don’t produce. Trouble is that we are stuck with players who we can’t get rid of without incurring an FFP loss, and the only respite is to try and loan them out- in Etebo’s case it’s unlikely that a Premier club will come in for him ( Newcastle ?), I don’t think we’d loan him to a Championship club ( probably couldn’t meet his wages), so it only leaves another loan abroad? I don't take O'Neill completely at face value. He was looking to clear the dressing room of players, received a barrage of critical questions from the gentleman of the press, and justified his decision in a way which I thought was unworthy, not to mention, it was counterproductive; if you're looking to sell players do you let prospective buyers know that one trains badly and another is the worst player on the pitch (vs Cardiff). But I think O'Neill very much was under pressure at the time, which might explain it. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Aug 1, 2020 18:52:16 GMT
Etebo is a cracking player who should play at the highest level!  |
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Aug 1, 2020 19:03:22 GMT
With our hands tied due to ffp unless we get top dollar its not in our interests ffp wise to sell so I would tell his agent he's got 3 options. Find a buyer who will pay top dollar. Find a loan club who will pay a fee and 100% of etebos wages. The player returns to stoke and will train with the u18's or bomb squad for the season as he's not wanted near the first team squad. If he refuses to train don't pay him. The best interests of our club is what's important now not a group of mercenaries. The manager wants him gone as much as he allegedly wants out, so I'm not sure how a hardline stance of training with the U18s will wash. If all parties want out then you have to get it done. The fact we seemingly can't sell a 24/25 year old international midfielder without violating FFP speaks very different volumes though. With every passing deal or problem it just cements how awful our recruitment has been for years. I agree training with the u18's isn't ideal but it just might focus the agent and players mind to get Etebo a move away from the club. |
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