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Post by wilcopotter on Jul 31, 2020 14:38:01 GMT
Players like Etebo and Badou despite their obvious talent need to look in the mirror and ask themselves why teams aren't queueing up to keep them after loans, or why Premier League or equivalent teams aren't coming in for them. I have a hunch they won't....... Probably because they are now millionaires and don’t give a shite. Don’t take it personal it’s not about Stoke, any mug club will do them. They’re not the only ones. |
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Post by Fred Merger on Jul 31, 2020 15:15:21 GMT
Wasn't there somebody in the recruitment team at West Ham a few years ago who got into trouble for saying he didn't like the idea of signing players from African countries, as a lot of the ones he had dealt with had questionable attitudes and didn't like dealing with them because of these type of reasons. I can't remember his name,but I think they got rid of him because of it!
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jul 31, 2020 15:23:31 GMT
We have gone back to the 80's where we sell any talent we find. Chamberlain, Heath, Bracewell, Dixon, Bould, etc sold when I was growing up, and despite our ludicrous wealth, we are doing it again, because of the utter fuck up we have made of running a club. How is Scholes still here? In relation to Etobe hasn’t MON stated that both he and Ndaiye were knocking on his door to leave? |
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Post by bolders on Jul 31, 2020 15:29:09 GMT
Wasn't there somebody in the recruitment team at West Ham a few years ago who got into trouble for saying he didn't like the idea of signing players from African countries, as a lot of the ones he had dealt with had questionable attitudes and didn't like dealing with them because of these type of reasons. I can't remember his name,but I think they got rid of him because of it! Tony Henry. It might not be their attitudes that's the problem its those blood sucking parasites i mean agents that are the problem |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 15:31:00 GMT
We have gone back to the 80's where we sell any talent we find. Chamberlain, Heath, Bracewell, Dixon, Bould, etc sold when I was growing up, and despite our ludicrous wealth, we are doing it again, because of the utter fuck up we have made of running a club. How is Scholes still here? In relation to Etobe hasn’t MON stated that both he and Ndaiye were knocking on his door to leave? Yes, some time after the late great Tricky posted that message |
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Post by Trouserdog on Jul 31, 2020 15:34:26 GMT
Etebo, when on his game, is a brilliant midfielder at this level, as is N'Diaye.
The fact they both share the same agent tells us where the problem is, and we should have known what we were letting ourselves in for the second time around.
God forbid we hold Nathan Jones up as an example for how to manage anything competently, but the way he handled N'Diaye was exactly what we should do again. Tell them both that they're in our first team squad and playing for a move away. If we get a decent offer then we'll let them both go. If we don't, then they'll have to play well for us or no fucker will want them. N'Diaye, to be fair to him, looked a cut above for the few months he was in the team.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 31, 2020 15:38:04 GMT
Michael isn't inherently "stubborn" - if anything, he's pragmatic, as his masterful handling of that balloon Kyle Lafferty proved (got him playing for a campaign, then eventually replaced him with a far less talented, but much more committed, professional in Josh Magennis, who he'd been preparing for just that eventuality) So that he'll measure the short-term gain to be derived from Etebo's ability versus the medium-to-long term loss which might arise if a dodgy attitude starts to infect the dressing room.
My money's on Attitude beating Ability.
Etebo might be worth a punt if he can persuade MON he wants to play for us. He is decent central midfielder which is somewhere we need some strength in depth. Providing he is the one that makes the move. There is no way O'Neill should be obliged to approach Etebo - he was spot on about only wanting players who want to play for the club when he sent him out on loan and nothing has changed on that front other than the players who remained committed saving us from relegation while Etebo put himself in the shop window. Good player but I'd rather we played someone who wants to be here. |
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Post by spiderpuss on Jul 31, 2020 16:31:23 GMT
If they were looking like the part and really pushing Getafe on, then I'm sure the money would change hands. It hasn't and it won't. They are hum-drum players we played too too much for. For clubs like Getafe they're never ever going to spend £3-4m on a player unless they're absolutely stand out performers. It was never going to happen, did he actually even play? 10 apps and one goal. |
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Post by march4 on Jul 31, 2020 16:37:51 GMT
The quickest route for Etebo to the Prem is via SCFC.
If he wants a Prem club then he needs to get playing for us at a consistently high standard. He will soon be snapped up.
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Post by spiderpuss on Jul 31, 2020 16:39:26 GMT
Is it me or is Peter not pulling enough tree stumps for people to exercise the purchase option. Another problem for MON to sort out. Yeah it's always you! No, it doesn't even have anything to do with Etebo. Getafe never had much money in the first place, but with the Covid hitting Spain hard, they simply won't be able to take on Etebo full time unless we give him away for free and pay 98% of his wages. How poverty stricken is this "one of richest leagues in the world"? Getafe are currently 8th and 3-4M would be a stroll in the park for them. People are still paying their TV packages and so this league still has money. Attendances (real ones) in the non- Barca-Real world have never been huge IMO. The fact they don't want to pay any money says it's yet another dope of a player who doesn't want to knuckle down for the big bucks. |
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Post by Gods on Jul 31, 2020 17:53:50 GMT
Etebo, when on his game, is a brilliant midfielder at this level, as is N'Diaye. The fact they both share the same agent tells us where the problem is, and we should have known what we were letting ourselves in for the second time around. God forbid we hold Nathan Jones up as an example for how to manage anything competently, but the way he handled N'Diaye was exactly what we should do again. Tell them both that they're in our first team squad and playing for a move away. If we get a decent offer then we'll let them both go. If we don't, then they'll have to play well for us or no fucker will want them. N'Diaye, to be fair to him, looked a cut above for the few months he was in the team. We won't get any 'decent offers' will we? We didn't before the global economy went on 'life support' and match day revenue became a thing of the past. They also both have another 'wasted' season on their CV's. So we sure as shit won't now! |
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Post by lordb on Jul 31, 2020 17:59:00 GMT
Yeah it's always you! No, it doesn't even have anything to do with Etebo. Getafe never had much money in the first place, but with the Covid hitting Spain hard, they simply won't be able to take on Etebo full time unless we give him away for free and pay 98% of his wages. How poverty stricken is this "one of richest leagues in the world"? Getafe are currently 8th and 3-4M would be a stroll in the park for them. People are still paying their TV packages and so this league still has money. Attendances (real ones) in the non- Barca-Real world have never been huge IMO. The fact they don't want to pay any money says it's yet another dope of a player who doesn't want to knuckle down for the big bucks. Money in Spain is far more concentrated than here I e. Barca and Real Madrid get nearly all of it. Getafe budget will be really small |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 18:51:12 GMT
Yeah it's always you! No, it doesn't even have anything to do with Etebo. Getafe never had much money in the first place, but with the Covid hitting Spain hard, they simply won't be able to take on Etebo full time unless we give him away for free and pay 98% of his wages. How poverty stricken is this "one of richest leagues in the world"? Getafe are currently 8th and 3-4M would be a stroll in the park for them. People are still paying their TV packages and so this league still has money. Attendances (real ones) in the non- Barca-Real world have never been huge IMO. The fact they don't want to pay any money says it's yet another dope of a player who doesn't want to knuckle down for the big bucks. Barcelona and Real make up the rich clubs in Spain, Athletico can play along, but even clubs that have done well in Europe not so long ago like Valencia, Villereal, and Sevilla are frequently in the doghouse. It helps, initially, when a rich investor gets involved, but it's not always the piece of cake that some of them think, as we know only too well in England. Just these past few days we've looked at Charlton, Wigan, and other troubled clubs. I don't know where you have the idea that Spain is "one of the richeest leagues in the world"? Seems more like a figment of your imagination. What is fact, however, is that Spain is one of the countries hardest hit by the corona virus, and it's going to take years before they recover. Even Real are forced to sell to hold it together. "The fact they don't want to pay any money says it's yet another dope of a player who doesn't want to knuckle down for the big bucks." It doesn't say that at all and there's nothing factual about what you claim. Moreover Etebo would never have made it as far as he has, for his national team and as a club player, if he was a player that refused to knuckle down. |
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Post by Trouserdog on Jul 31, 2020 18:55:42 GMT
Etebo, when on his game, is a brilliant midfielder at this level, as is N'Diaye. The fact they both share the same agent tells us where the problem is, and we should have known what we were letting ourselves in for the second time around. God forbid we hold Nathan Jones up as an example for how to manage anything competently, but the way he handled N'Diaye was exactly what we should do again. Tell them both that they're in our first team squad and playing for a move away. If we get a decent offer then we'll let them both go. If we don't, then they'll have to play well for us or no fucker will want them. N'Diaye, to be fair to him, looked a cut above for the few months he was in the team. We won't get any 'decent offers' will we? We didn't before the global economy went on 'life support' and match day revenue became a thing of the past. They also both have another 'wasted' season on their CV's. So we sure as shit won't now! Probably not. In which case we continue to use the players in our team/squad. If they don't put the effort in they rot in the U23s- it's that simple. The crucial thing is that the players are satisfied the club are trying to get them a move. N'Diaye might be a mercenary who doesn't give a shit about Stoke, but no-one could accuse him of not trying during the spell that Jones put him in the team. For that period he was easily our best player. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 19:02:02 GMT
Etebo, when on his game, is a brilliant midfielder at this level, as is N'Diaye. The fact they both share the same agent tells us where the problem is, and we should have known what we were letting ourselves in for the second time around. God forbid we hold Nathan Jones up as an example for how to manage anything competently, but the way he handled N'Diaye was exactly what we should do again. Tell them both that they're in our first team squad and playing for a move away. If we get a decent offer then we'll let them both go. If we don't, then they'll have to play well for us or no fucker will want them. N'Diaye, to be fair to him, looked a cut above for the few months he was in the team. We won't get any 'decent offers' will we? We didn't before the global economy went on 'life support' and match day revenue became a thing of the past. They also both have another 'wasted' season on their CV's. So we sure as shit won't now! I don't think N'diaye had "a wasted season". His club was second in the Turkish league and they won the cup. That's a damn sight better than SCFC did. But the problem, as always whenever the transfer window rolls around, is that the players we want to sell cannot be bought, because the players at Stoke achieved a wage level that is quite simply out of reach for the vast majority of clubs, anywhere. |
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Post by Gods on Jul 31, 2020 20:38:33 GMT
We won't get any 'decent offers' will we? We didn't before the global economy went on 'life support' and match day revenue became a thing of the past. They also both have another 'wasted' season on their CV's. So we sure as shit won't now! I don't think N'diaye had "a wasted season". His club was second in the Turkish league and they won the cup. That's a damn sight better than SCFC did. But the problem, as always whenever the transfer window rolls around, is that the players we want to sell cannot be bought, because the players at Stoke achieved a wage level that is quite simply out of reach for the vast majority of clubs, anywhere. Fair enough on Trabzonspor I just looked though and they have not spent more than £5m on a player ever and that was 12 years ago and as you say they won't come near his wage. Turkey as a country is flaty broke, the football clubs don't have 2 coins to rub together, I just can't see it. |
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Post by theteacher on Jul 31, 2020 20:54:03 GMT
Etebo, when on his game, is a brilliant midfielder at this level, as is N'Diaye. The fact they both share the same agent tells us where the problem is, and we should have known what we were letting ourselves in for the second time around. God forbid we hold Nathan Jones up as an example for how to manage anything competently, but the way he handled N'Diaye was exactly what we should do again. Tell them both that they're in our first team squad and playing for a move away. If we get a decent offer then we'll let them both go. If we don't, then they'll have to play well for us or no fucker will want them. N'Diaye, to be fair to him, looked a cut above for the few months he was in the team. Summon them in for training with the rest of the squad. Arrange a meeting with each player and their agent. Play hardball and in no uncertain terms tell them their attitudes need to be spot-on or they will be worked extremely hard and fined two-weeks wages every time they break a rule or step out-of-line. This white never kicking a ball for the Club again unless they show the required 100% commitment to the cause. The alternative being for the agent to secure a permanent move for their player(s), away from the Club, at a level acceptable to the Club. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 8:21:12 GMT
I don't think N'diaye had "a wasted season". His club was second in the Turkish league and they won the cup. That's a damn sight better than SCFC did. But the problem, as always whenever the transfer window rolls around, is that the players we want to sell cannot be bought, because the players at Stoke achieved a wage level that is quite simply out of reach for the vast majority of clubs, anywhere. Fair enough on Trabzonspor I just looked though and they have not spent more than £5m on a player ever and that was 12 years ago and as you say they won't come near his wage. Turkey as a country is flaty broke, the football clubs don't have 2 coins to rub together, I just can't see it. So maybe we should just take the bull by the horn and insist that N'diaye must play for us, which, given the cons and pros, might just work out for the best for all. N'diaye gets his wages and a chance to shine on a bigger stage (yes I know it sounds daft that the Championship is a bigger stage than a Turkish team taking part in the Europa, but it's a fact that it is; I don't know why N'diaye's agents cant work it out)) and we get a bloody good player who could help us regain our footing and we get service for the money we pay. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 8:31:58 GMT
Etebo, when on his game, is a brilliant midfielder at this level, as is N'Diaye. The fact they both share the same agent tells us where the problem is, and we should have known what we were letting ourselves in for the second time around. God forbid we hold Nathan Jones up as an example for how to manage anything competently, but the way he handled N'Diaye was exactly what we should do again. Tell them both that they're in our first team squad and playing for a move away. If we get a decent offer then we'll let them both go. If we don't, then they'll have to play well for us or no fucker will want them. N'Diaye, to be fair to him, looked a cut above for the few months he was in the team. Summon them in for training with the rest of the squad. Arrange a meeting with each player and their agent. Play hardball and in no uncertain terms tell them their attitudes need to be spot-on or they will be worked extremely hard and fined two-weeks wages every time they break a rule or step out-of-line. This white never kicking a ball for the Club again unless they show the required 100% commitment to the cause. The alternative being for the agent to secure a permanent move for their player(s), away from the Club, at a level acceptable to the Club. I don't know where this alleged myth of the two of them as rule breakers and step out of liners come from. When they were training and playing - admittedly that wasn't often enough over the length of their contracts - they did more than well as could be expected. They might have shown up a little late after African tournaments, but that is par for the course. Every club has this problem, which passes after a day or two, and a little fine, not out of hand. N'diaye played very well in our relegation season and for the short time under Jones. O'Neill said he was our worst player vs Cardiff, but I'm not so sure. Etebo were some people's PotY candidate last season. Some people may have aggressions because of Imbula et al, but neither player are Imbulas by any stretch. I think if you were to have an intelligent conversation with them and their agent - that would require a lot on both sides - they could be made to understand that it is really in their best interests to turn out for the club. |
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Post by bolders on Aug 1, 2020 8:43:43 GMT
Fair enough on Trabzonspor I just looked though and they have not spent more than £5m on a player ever and that was 12 years ago and as you say they won't come near his wage. Turkey as a country is flaty broke, the football clubs don't have 2 coins to rub together, I just can't see it. So maybe we should just take the bull by the horn and insist that N'diaye must play for us, which, given the cons and pros, might just work out for the best for all. N'diaye gets his wages and a chance to shine on a bigger stage (yes I know it sounds daft that the Championship is a bigger stage than a Turkish team taking part in the Europa, but it's a fact that it is; I don't know why N'diaye's agents cant work it out)) and we get a bloody good player who could help us regain our footing and we get service for the money we pay. First game of our first season down we played him and he was dogshit and wasn’t interested and wanted away. We can’t afford to have a passenger |
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Post by neddy on Aug 1, 2020 8:47:43 GMT
I wonder re FFP if say most of the loanees stayed we would breach ffp? It must have been tight last year as we couldn’t take Brunt when Bruno didn’t go?
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Post by mallorcanstokie on Aug 1, 2020 8:51:25 GMT
With Nathen playing them, it didn’t exactly go well did it, they may have looked ok but they certainly were not team players. Can’t play them if they don’t want to be here, they may look ok but team moral would be shot. Leave O’Neil to manage them out of the club ASAP.
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Post by robwahlmann on Aug 1, 2020 8:53:48 GMT
Fair enough on Trabzonspor I just looked though and they have not spent more than £5m on a player ever and that was 12 years ago and as you say they won't come near his wage. Turkey as a country is flaty broke, the football clubs don't have 2 coins to rub together, I just can't see it. So maybe we should just take the bull by the horn and insist that N'diaye must play for us, which, given the cons and pros, might just work out for the best for all. N'diaye gets his wages and a chance to shine on a bigger stage (yes I know it sounds daft that the Championship is a bigger stage than a Turkish team taking part in the Europa, but it's a fact that it is; I don't know why N'diaye's agents cant work it out)) and we get a bloody good player who could help us regain our footing and we get service for the money we pay. I don't think Trabzonspor will be allowed to take part in any European Cup next season, they've been disqualified for some reason I've heard/read somewhere?  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 9:17:05 GMT
So maybe we should just take the bull by the horn and insist that N'diaye must play for us, which, given the cons and pros, might just work out for the best for all. N'diaye gets his wages and a chance to shine on a bigger stage (yes I know it sounds daft that the Championship is a bigger stage than a Turkish team taking part in the Europa, but it's a fact that it is; I don't know why N'diaye's agents cant work it out)) and we get a bloody good player who could help us regain our footing and we get service for the money we pay. First game of our first season down we played him and he was dogshit and wasn’t interested and wanted away. We can’t afford to have a passenger That's why I am saying we must take the bull by the horn. Can we in the long run afford to have players who are not playing but getting paid? I suppose you're referring to the Leeds game that we lost 1-3. I think your desciption is exaggerated and could refer to several players that day. One it did not refer to was Ince, who was actually trying (a little) that day. But this whole past season he's been uninterested and not wanting to take part. Yet until the last five games he was in the team all season. So why Ince but not N'daiye? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 9:18:00 GMT
So maybe we should just take the bull by the horn and insist that N'diaye must play for us, which, given the cons and pros, might just work out for the best for all. N'diaye gets his wages and a chance to shine on a bigger stage (yes I know it sounds daft that the Championship is a bigger stage than a Turkish team taking part in the Europa, but it's a fact that it is; I don't know why N'diaye's agents cant work it out)) and we get a bloody good player who could help us regain our footing and we get service for the money we pay. I don't think Trabzonspor will be allowed to take part in any European Cup next season, they've been disqualified for some reason I've heard/read somewhere? That's probably correct. Well more reason for N'daiye to take our stage. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 9:23:31 GMT
With Nathen playing them, it didn’t exactly go well did it, they may have looked ok but they certainly were not team players. Can’t play them if they don’t want to be here, they may look ok but team moral would be shot. Leave O’Neil to manage them out of the club ASAP. I'd prefer O'Neill to manage them inside the club, but it 's going to take some amount of negotiating the likes of which he's not done before, never having managed a top club before. But he's already done a lot that he hasn't done before, and now with relegation off his mind, he can concentrate on the little quality we already own.It didn't go well under Nathan...isn't that almost like a letter of recommendation? Because what did go well under Nathan? |
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 1, 2020 9:32:23 GMT
So maybe we should just take the bull by the horn and insist that N'diaye must play for us, which, given the cons and pros, might just work out for the best for all. N'diaye gets his wages and a chance to shine on a bigger stage (yes I know it sounds daft that the Championship is a bigger stage than a Turkish team taking part in the Europa, but it's a fact that it is; I don't know why N'diaye's agents cant work it out)) and we get a bloody good player who could help us regain our footing and we get service for the money we pay. First game of our first season down we played him and he was dogshit and wasn’t interested and wanted away. We can’t afford to have a passenger Things were very different for that game. When we first went down, the club wanted N'Diaye to stay and weren't actively trying to get him a move. Therefore, he couldn't be arsed to perform. When he was in the team and we were trying to put him in the shop window, he was a different player altogether. Ideally, we don't want a tosspot like him, who'll only turn it on when it suits him, but the reality of the situation is that we have two Premier League-class midfielders on the books whom we have to manage. What we can't afford to do is have the pair of them sat in the stands doing sod all. |
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Post by Rt Hon Reverend Luvpump on Aug 1, 2020 9:35:46 GMT
Etebo, when on his game, is a brilliant midfielder at this level, as is N'Diaye. The fact they both share the same agent tells us where the problem is, and we should have known what we were letting ourselves in for the second time around. God forbid we hold Nathan Jones up as an example for how to manage anything competently, but the way he handled N'Diaye was exactly what we should do again. Tell them both that they're in our first team squad and playing for a move away. If we get a decent offer then we'll let them both go. If we don't, then they'll have to play well for us or no fucker will want them. N'Diaye, to be fair to him, looked a cut above for the few months he was in the team. Summon them in for training with the rest of the squad. Arrange a meeting with each player and their agent. Play hardball and in no uncertain terms tell them their attitudes need to be spot-on or they will be worked extremely hard and fined two-weeks wages every time they break a rule or step out-of-line. This white never kicking a ball for the Club again unless they show the required 100% commitment to the cause. The alternative being for the agent to secure a permanent move for their player(s), away from the Club, at a level acceptable to the Club. I wouldn’t risk having their attitude anywhere near the team,we all know there were problems in the club with egos and attitudes and it’s taken a long time to start turning it around. |
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Aug 1, 2020 9:42:15 GMT
Aside from all the money and FFP and attitude side of things ask yourself this question.
With Etebo and/or Ndiaye in the team are we more or less likely to have a chance at promotion next season?
The answer is a resounding YES. That would be our midfield sorted for next season alongside striking options and goalkeeper.
We then only need to fix the defence and back-up winger options with transfers.
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Post by Gods on Aug 1, 2020 9:54:53 GMT
So maybe we should just take the bull by the horn and insist that N'diaye must play for us, which, given the cons and pros, might just work out for the best for all. N'diaye gets his wages and a chance to shine on a bigger stage (yes I know it sounds daft that the Championship is a bigger stage than a Turkish team taking part in the Europa, but it's a fact that it is; I don't know why N'diaye's agents cant work it out)) and we get a bloody good player who could help us regain our footing and we get service for the money we pay. First game of our first season down we played him and he was dogshit and wasn’t interested and wanted away. We can’t afford to have a passenger Leeds 3 Stoke 1 - Bielsa's first game in charge. We had a much stronger line-up than we have now and got absolutely rinsed. Shows how much attitude matters in sport IMHO Butland Bauer Shawcross Martins Indi Pieters Allen Ndiaye Substituted for Bojan at 63'minutes Etebo Substituted for Fletcher at 63'minutes Ince Afobe Substituted for Crouch at 76'minutes McClean |
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