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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2019 19:29:51 GMT
He's saying Jones will be backed like Rowett was, which means he can cherry pick the best players in the league, hopefully Jones won't get too excited like Rowett did and blow it all
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Post by kidcrewbob on May 15, 2019 19:46:49 GMT
Where's my eggy soldiers ??? Wibble......
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Post by robstokie on May 15, 2019 19:48:47 GMT
He's saying Jones will be backed like Rowett was, which means he can cherry pick the best players in the league, hopefully Jones won't get too excited like Rowett did and blow it all It wasnt so much how Rowett spent, but the fact he spent on players who are mediocre to shite. |
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Post by tony1234 on May 15, 2019 20:04:24 GMT
I feel insulted now when he speaks, to think he might believe im stupid enough to swallow the sentiments.
This season was forseeable. His and the club's delusions of grandeur and ridiculous baseless arrogance were and remain a huge part of the problem.
While GR made errors galore, his style of play was well known to be hard to watch: which meant that he was always likely to face dissent and divide fans at a time the club needed a feel-good factor and unity.
He had no Champs-winning experience. No experience of a "turnaround". And he had to deal with a swamp of complex problems from players of a sort he'd not had to deal with before, encased in a culture of failure, which few managers would solve immediately. I've heard one player or manager after another talk about it only taking 1 or 2 to disrupt a dressing room. So, the incoming manager - GR or whoever - should never have been left with N'Diaye and Berahinho to deal with, by any Board expecting the manager to immediately create the sort of motivated, cohesive and professional culture needed to be a promotion candidate.
Bad choice, for foreseeable reasons. Brought in under bad circumstances. Forseeable too.
The game's moved on, evidently well beyond the capabilities of the boys club who mismanage the club.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 15, 2019 20:05:24 GMT
Are you serious? Spending nearly 40m on Afobe, Ince, McClean, Clucas and Martina says otherwise. It’s the lies from the likes of Scholes I detest, I really can’t stand the bloke, I was on the next table to him at a charity event last year and god what a tool, for the fool to actually try and tell us that we’d spent in the region of 100 games watching the above players is an insult. Never seen Martina play but the remainder are actually quite shit and always have been, so why the friggin hell did we buy them you couldn’t make it up Because the manager wanted them. I’m confused here, are we saying the manager has too much power or not enough? |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2019 20:22:14 GMT
He's saying Jones will be backed like Rowett was, which means he can cherry pick the best players in the league, hopefully Jones won't get too excited like Rowett did and blow it all It wasnt so much how Rowett spent, but the fact he spent on players who are mediocre to shite. I don't even think it was that I think it was the fact they can't play together, they don't fit together or fit the formation he wanted to play. It was utterly bizarre. |
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Post by Rt Hon Reverend Luvpump on May 15, 2019 21:56:47 GMT
Well I though we'd be top six at the start of the season but at half time in the Leeds game I realised how wrong I was. A good number of people (including me) under-estimated just how bad our squad was. Rowett's signings were just the lippy on the pig. The lippy might not have been top quality but it wasn't his fault he inherited one really ugly pig. Just out of interest the relegation season did you think we could have stayed up? I really did and still have cold sweat’s now thinking how did we let that happen the missed penalties the own goals! |
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Post by numberounominion on May 16, 2019 17:28:16 GMT
On finishing something like 6 or 7th from bottom ( nobody honestly counts Birmingham below stoke, given that they scored more points on us on the pitch) , with the biggest budget in the league: ' no one is to blame '
On a media department, that follows up #ambition, with a pathetic public comments on wba: 'no one is to blame '
On a transfer team that sign a player from West Brom, KNOWING that the bloke has maliciously and vindictively attacked Brentford boss Uwe Rossler, and been told he has lost all respect of the players, manager and owners of Brentford, and is having his loan terminated and being sent home, BEFORE we signed him. Has vindictively and publicly attacked Wba chairman Jeremy peace and been told he has to leave the club, BEFORE we signed him.
Was in a video on you tube of himself, taking nitrous oxide on you tube BEFORE we signed him.
And just for good measure failed an FA drugs test BEFORE we signed him... 'no one is to blame '
Brilliant, thanks for clearing that up The Sentinel
If only the Sentinel ran the Wasington Post, the Vietnam war would still be going and the Republicans would be celebrating 50 years in power.
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Post by PolPotter on May 16, 2019 17:53:50 GMT
On finishing something like 6 or 7th from bottom ( nobody honestly counts Birmingham below stoke, given that they scored more points on us on the pitch) , with the biggest budget in the league: ' no one is to blame ' On a media department, that follows up #ambition, with a pathetic public comments on wba: 'no one is to blame ' On a transfer team that sign a player from West Brom, KNOWING that the bloke has maliciously and vindictively attacked Brentford boss Uwe Rossler, and been told he has lost all respect of the players, manager and owners of Brentford, and is having his loan terminated and being sent home, BEFORE we signed him. Has vindictively and publicly attacked Wba chairman Jeremy peace and been told he has to leave the club, BEFORE we signed him. Was in a video on you tube of himself, taking nitrous oxide on you tube BEFORE we signed him. And just for good measure failed an FA drugs test BEFORE we signed him... 'no one is to blame ' Brilliant, thanks for clearing that up The Sentinel If only the Sentinel ran the Wasington Post, the Vietnam war would still be going and the Republicans would be celebrating 50 years in power. It's depressing but true and there's a whole lot more you could have added. Anyone who thinks we have a chance of pushing for promotion under the current ownership is deluded. |
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Post by FrankButcher on May 16, 2019 18:19:52 GMT
On finishing something like 6 or 7th from bottom ( nobody honestly counts Birmingham below stoke, given that they scored more points on us on the pitch) , with the biggest budget in the league: ' no one is to blame ' On a media department, that follows up #ambition, with a pathetic public comments on wba: 'no one is to blame ' On a transfer team that sign a player from West Brom, KNOWING that the bloke has maliciously and vindictively attacked Brentford boss Uwe Rossler, and been told he has lost all respect of the players, manager and owners of Brentford, and is having his loan terminated and being sent home, BEFORE we signed him. Has vindictively and publicly attacked Wba chairman Jeremy peace and been told he has to leave the club, BEFORE we signed him. Was in a video on you tube of himself, taking nitrous oxide on you tube BEFORE we signed him. And just for good measure failed an FA drugs test BEFORE we signed him... 'no one is to blame ' Brilliant, thanks for clearing that up The Sentinel If only the Sentinel ran the Wasington Post, the Vietnam war would still be going and the Republicans would be celebrating 50 years in power. It's depressing but true and there's a whole lot more you could have added. Anyone who thinks we have a chance of pushing for promotion under the current ownership is deluded. Agree with you Pol. It's an unpopular opinion to think we won't get promoted under the current ownership one that i share and stated when we got relegated that to get a complete overhaul of the club it could well take new owners as I can't see things changing for the better this malaise over the club still has its grip and it's concerning. |
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Post by FullerMagic on May 17, 2019 12:06:23 GMT
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Post by melbournestokie21 on May 17, 2019 12:58:21 GMT
To be fair we you cant really criticize coates over the rowett appointment. At the time things did make sense, who would you have rather gone after? Alladyce wouldve never come, most of the others unproven in the division. Teams have gone out in the past for superstar managers and bombed it di matteo (villa) amongst others.
I just cant fathom criticising the appointment, you can understand it. The only argument really to make would be would lambert have made a better fist of it?
However if that went tits up like rowett did, things would be even more hostile I imagine
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 15:28:36 GMT
Players need someone to believe in... rowett wasn’t the one
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 17, 2019 15:31:21 GMT
To be fair we you cant really criticize coates over the rowett appointment. At the time things did make sense, who would you have rather gone after? Alladyce wouldve never come, most of the others unproven in the division. Teams have gone out in the past for superstar managers and bombed it di matteo (villa) amongst others. I just cant fathom criticising the appointment, you can understand it. The only argument really to make would be would lambert have made a better fist of it? However if that went tits up like rowett did, things would be even more hostile I imagine Well we could’ve had a bit of imagination. Could’ve looked overseas. I wanted us to go go for Alex Neil, who wouldn’t necessarily have done better but would have been a damn sight more interesting. I thought Rowett would have us up there though, that it’d be dull and agricultural but he’d make us contenders. Nope. |
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Post by numberounominion on May 17, 2019 15:42:33 GMT
Interesting that PC sees Stoke And Man Utd suffering somewhat similar problems .
According to Roy Keane , Man U's problem is ' too many fluffers ' , too many fake footballers ( Fred , sanchez etc ) and not enough real footballers who go in hard for every 50/50 and 40/ 60 and have the battle scars to prove it ( bryan robson , steve bruce etc )
wayne Rooney agrees .. he says man utd's current team have too many players who want to ' do their talking on social media and not on the pitch '
What if Keane , Rooney and PC have all called it right ?
What if Stoke City have too many fluffers and too many players who want to talk the talk on social media ( instead of on the pitch )
What if Stoke city have too many Berahino's and wimmers and not enough Delaps's and Huth's ?
What would you suggest Stoke do about that Mr Coates ?
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Post by Seymour Beaver on May 17, 2019 15:45:10 GMT
To be fair we you cant really criticize coates over the rowett appointment. At the time things did make sense, who would you have rather gone after? Alladyce wouldve never come, most of the others unproven in the division. Teams have gone out in the past for superstar managers and bombed it di matteo (villa) amongst others. I just cant fathom criticising the appointment, you can understand it. The only argument really to make would be would lambert have made a better fist of it? However if that went tits up like rowett did, things would be even more hostile I imagine I never expected to bounce back straightaway but nor did I expect to be rolled over quite so easily by the likes of Wigan and Blackburn. I didn't want Rowett last summer - not for footballing reasons particulalrly but because he had been given the opportunity in January and turned it down getting himself a better contract at Derby into the bargain. To then come wagging his tail less than six months later just didn't sit right with me. Once he got here it was clear he believed in his own hype and thought the budget plus his own inestimable talent was a sure fire formula for success. I would have presonally preferred Lambert to have been given a chance. He might not have done any better but there would at least have been some integrity to what he was doing. |
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Post by Smudge_SCFC on May 17, 2019 15:52:30 GMT
I keep seeing this comment about people not appreciating how bad we were last season.
Well we were better than West Brom and they managed to comfortably make the play-offs this season, despite spending a fraction of what we splashed out.
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Post by cousindupree on May 17, 2019 16:11:36 GMT
I keep seeing this comment about people not appreciating how bad we were last season. Well we were better than West Brom and they managed to comfortably make the play-offs this season, despite spending a fraction of what we splashed out. And WBA also fired their manager which you would expect would cause some upheaval. I guess I wasn't quite prepared for Rowett to spunk over 30m on a dreadful front 3 of Ince Afobe and McClean. Just think for a moment if it had been spent on a different front 3. |
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Post by zerps on May 17, 2019 16:17:06 GMT
Whatever he says now he’s still our sugar daddy. He does need to hand the entire reigns over though.
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Post by senojbor on May 17, 2019 19:01:27 GMT
Certain clubs take action fairly quickly if their managers don't deliver, take Leicester and Southampton for an example. They are in the PL and we are not.
Hughes should have been sacked 18 months before he was.
It's not acceptable by the idiots in charge of the club.
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Post by senojbor on May 17, 2019 19:05:42 GMT
I keep seeing this comment about people not appreciating how bad we were last season. Well we were better than West Brom and they managed to comfortably make the play-offs this season, despite spending a fraction of what we splashed out. Exactly and we could go further back than last season. I find the complacency quite astounding considering the financial standing of the owner. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 19:09:24 GMT
Certain clubs take action fairly quickly if their managers don't deliver, take Leicester and Southampton for an example. They are in the PL and we are not. Hughes should have been sacked 18 months before he was. It's not acceptable by the idiots in charge of the club. Pulis also should have been sacked earlier than he was. |
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Post by zerps on May 17, 2019 19:27:03 GMT
Certain clubs take action fairly quickly if their managers don't deliver, take Leicester and Southampton for an example. They are in the PL and we are not. Hughes should have been sacked 18 months before he was. It's not acceptable by the idiots in charge of the club. Yeah but we were an anomaly, we stayed 10 years. There’s no formula for that and good luck to anyone that matches it from the championship. We are stoke and we’ll be back. |
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Post by tony1234 on May 17, 2019 19:36:03 GMT
To be fair we you cant really criticize coates over the rowett appointment. At the time things did make sense, who would you have rather gone after? Alladyce wouldve never come, most of the others unproven in the division. Teams have gone out in the past for superstar managers and bombed it di matteo (villa) amongst others. I just cant fathom criticising the appointment, you can understand it. The only argument really to make would be would lambert have made a better fist of it? However if that went tits up like rowett did, things would be even more hostile I imagine GR had no experience of - promotion from Champ - overseeing a turnaround in a club ridden with dysfunction and mired in a culture of apathy. - managing international players with big egos - spending £50m - playing the kind of football that united fans - securing good loan talent through contacts with top clubs - having the experience so often valuable now at the most competitive Championship clubs - of coaching/managing at an "elite" club in Britain/Europe, so able to understand the ways to create a winning culture and use sports-science I'd say the same now as then, that was, he was perfect if the pursuit was ugly but effective football and a finish between 8th-14th. I wanted a European (or British) coach who ticked these boxes of having experience at a top club. OR a British coach who, while risking the dinosaur label (e.g. Moyes), had the ability to manage up as well as down and saw the bigger picture so was able to put in place a structure. The reason I criticise it is was because the chances of GR succeeding were very slim. (Same with NJ, to be frank). Not impossible for a muck and brass type to win out, as Wilder as shown. But slim. |
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Post by owdestokie2 on May 17, 2019 20:15:12 GMT
IMHO.
I read PC’s comments and whilst agreeing with the sentiments I fail to understand why there was no family intervention in what was obviously a flawed and disastrous recruitment policy, which without doubt was the reason that we were relegated from the EPL with all its riches and which would have provided “sustainability”, the clubs mantra. Who can remember that word being used publicly by the hierarchy
In no other business that I’m aware of would a CEO who presided over such a calamitous decline and financial loss over a three year period retained their employment status. A CEO should set the level of the bar that sees the organisation being an envy for others to emulate.
There is is indeed a level of culpability on the family for not taking the same level action at Board level as they have at Manager level
I did say IMHO. Others may have a different opinion.
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Post by swampySCFC on May 17, 2019 22:00:47 GMT
I keep seeing this comment about people not appreciating how bad we were last season. Well we were better than West Brom and they managed to comfortably make the play-offs this season, despite spending a fraction of what we splashed out. Im not sure we were any better than West Brom Smudge we were clearly in a constant sliding decline and could have actually saved ourselves in our last few games. withered on the vine. went out with a whimper with no comment or input from our owners. Followed by a turgid boring season in the Championship where our ten year tenure in the Prem under the stewardship of TP are long forgotten and often maligned |
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Post by Davef on May 17, 2019 22:14:25 GMT
I keep seeing this comment about people not appreciating how bad we were last season. Well we were better than West Brom and they managed to comfortably make the play-offs this season, despite spending a fraction of what we splashed out. Im not sure we were any better than West Brom Smudge we were clearly in a constant sliding decline and could have actually saved ourselves in our last few games. withered on the vine. went out with a whimper with no comment or input from our owners. Followed by a turgid boring season in the Championship where our ten year tenure in the Prem under the stewardship of TP are long forgotten and often maligned Five years of Premier League football under Pulis. I take it you're including the three 9th place finishes under Hughes in those seasons that are often maligned? |
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Post by melbournestokie21 on May 18, 2019 2:19:26 GMT
To be fair we you cant really criticize coates over the rowett appointment. At the time things did make sense, who would you have rather gone after? Alladyce wouldve never come, most of the others unproven in the division. Teams have gone out in the past for superstar managers and bombed it di matteo (villa) amongst others. I just cant fathom criticising the appointment, you can understand it. The only argument really to make would be would lambert have made a better fist of it? However if that went tits up like rowett did, things would be even more hostile I imagine GR had no experience of - promotion from Champ - overseeing a turnaround in a club ridden with dysfunction and mired in a culture of apathy. - managing international players with big egos - spending £50m - playing the kind of football that united fans - securing good loan talent through contacts with top clubs - having the experience so often valuable now at the most competitive Championship clubs - of coaching/managing at an "elite" club in Britain/Europe, so able to understand the ways to create a winning culture and use sports-science I'd say the same now as then, that was, he was perfect if the pursuit was ugly but effective football and a finish between 8th-14th. I wanted a European (or British) coach who ticked these boxes of having experience at a top club. OR a British coach who, while risking the dinosaur label (e.g. Moyes), had the ability to manage up as well as down and saw the bigger picture so was able to put in place a structure. The reason I criticise it is was because the chances of GR succeeding were very slim. (Same with NJ, to be frank). Not impossible for a muck and brass type to win out, as Wilder as shown. But slim. Look im not a fan as rowett as much as the next guy but what im saying is who else? Rowett had pulled brum from the shit, showcasing he could turn around a club void of confidence Moyes on the other hand completely failed to turn around an already bad situation at sunderland. I know a few managers have struggled but im just applying the same logic as you have to rowetts appointment. Keeping lambert wouldnt really have struck people with positivity or belief. All other managers in the league had question marks around them. Farke no experience in the above. Even though he bottled it with derby he still got them up there and abouts with an old squad. Out of all the managers for them to pick who else? Following that who is to say one they wouldve come here and two wouldve had the credentials rowett had |
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Post by wilcopotter on May 18, 2019 5:43:48 GMT
Players need someone to believe in... rowett wasn’t the one True. However, managers need players to believe in, he didn’t have them. Problem was, the players he signed made no impact either. Nobody questioned his appointment though as I recall, seemed like a good one at the time. He sealed his own fate with his manner. Interestingly, no other club as engaged him either during their strive to avoid relegation etc. His actions at Stoke do not appear to have helped him. |
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Post by tony1234 on May 18, 2019 10:20:05 GMT
GR had no experience of - promotion from Champ - overseeing a turnaround in a club ridden with dysfunction and mired in a culture of apathy. - managing international players with big egos - spending £50m - playing the kind of football that united fans - securing good loan talent through contacts with top clubs - having the experience so often valuable now at the most competitive Championship clubs - of coaching/managing at an "elite" club in Britain/Europe, so able to understand the ways to create a winning culture and use sports-science I'd say the same now as then, that was, he was perfect if the pursuit was ugly but effective football and a finish between 8th-14th. I wanted a European (or British) coach who ticked these boxes of having experience at a top club. OR a British coach who, while risking the dinosaur label (e.g. Moyes), had the ability to manage up as well as down and saw the bigger picture so was able to put in place a structure. The reason I criticise it is was because the chances of GR succeeding were very slim. (Same with NJ, to be frank). Not impossible for a muck and brass type to win out, as Wilder as shown. But slim. Look im not a fan as rowett as much as the next guy but what im saying is who else? Rowett had pulled brum from the shit, showcasing he could turn around a club void of confidence Moyes on the other hand completely failed to turn around an already bad situation at sunderland. I know a few managers have struggled but im just applying the same logic as you have to rowetts appointment. Keeping lambert wouldnt really have struck people with positivity or belief. All other managers in the league had question marks around them. Farke no experience in the above. Even though he bottled it with derby he still got them up there and abouts with an old squad. Out of all the managers for them to pick who else? Following that who is to say one they wouldve come here and two wouldve had the credentials rowett had I think it was unimaginative and unnecessarily so. The attributes of successful Champs managers who were getting the teams nearer the top have become increasingly correlated with them having spent time at top clubs since around 2013. I'm assuming the advantage this gives them is exposure to leading practices and thinking in how to create a successful culture, behaviours, disciplines, processes etc - exposure to top data scientists, nutritionists, psychologsts etc - to be able to translate the learning - as clearly they wouldn't have the same resources in their new club. Moreover, they are perhaps more the clubs trusted by Prem league clubs to be the recipient of their top young talents on loan, as they know their development will be looked-after. So, if I'd been appointing I'd have noted this trend:- Wagner - Borussia Dortmund Jokanavic - Chelsea Benitez - Liverpool, Napoli, Madrid, Chelsea Karanka - Madrid and Bilbao, Spain national set up Hughton - Tottenham and Ireland set up (And since then, Farke, Biesla and Lampard have had good seasons) On top of this note experience of Directors of Football or similar. (Norwich's was Procurement Director at Liverpool; Villa's was involved with the Spain national set up and was DOF at Atletico Madrid). We can see Southgate having emerged from becoming steeped in the theories and practices of elite sports culture. Alternatively, I'd have noted that managers who get promoted once are a good bet to do it more than once. Bruce, Warnock, Jokanavic, Dyche That's a hell of a big percentage of managers that have one of just two success factors: 1) Top club experience OR 2) previous Champs promotions. (Once they get into the PL, there are different factors and attributes that give a better chance of staying there) So to go for someone who does NOT have those attributes, you need to know that they possess something special or different which negates their lack of experience. Perhaps they are bringing with them a DOF from Bayer Munich II for instance? GR was nowhere on this radar. So, for me, it was a sloppy, lazy-minded second rate appointment based on being a seemingly "solid" bloke and having done "pretty okay" in the mid to lower end of the Champs and well in L1. What's the point on spending 50m on players and not investing in a manager and DOF? Its like building an F1 car and have it driven by taxi-driver. Who else you ask? Hard to say exactly, as I can't remember who was available and imagine who would come. I'd have certainly been looking at the 2nd team managers, coaches and quiet brains behind clubs like Madrid, Munich, Atletico, Bor Dortmund, Hoffenheim, Schalke, Ajax, PSG, Juve, Milan etc or national U21 set ups etc. There are probably 30-40 candidates in there. OR, I would have allocated 40m of my budget to players and 10m to Manager & DOF. |
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