|
Post by Absolution on Aug 26, 2018 23:20:54 GMT
Or was Woods signed in a panic after Wednesday’s debacle? Beforehand it was very much said to be the case that we’d got to move Ndiaye on before we could sign Woods. As someone said, it was as though after the match, somebody high up had said “Just get it done FFS.” Well, the fact that it was done now - late August - would certainly give weight to that! If the club step back after relegation in May and said, "right, who stays & who goes in CM"... then it looks for much of the summer like there is no huge rush to get rid of Adam, Fletcher, Imbula, N'Diaye (even Cameron). Everyone at the club seems happy with Allen, Fletcher, N'Diaye and Etobo. Then the season starts - Leeds happens - Clucas arrives - the announcement that four can leave - rumours for Arter and then Woods comes... Yep, it looks a bit like the result of another Stoke "planning session" all round in the final week of the window.! So much seems to be done ‘on the hoof’. The fact that five years into this process there are still debates over who does what, who scouts, who decides, who signs, is to me a sign that everything is very haphazard. After that amount of time, surely even us supporters outside the loop would know how the process works like clockwork. The fact that none of us are sure just who is to blame and to what degree, tells me that the process isn’t anywhere near as defined as it should be. By that I mean it’s a shambles.
|
|
|
Post by tony1234 on Aug 26, 2018 23:42:22 GMT
Well, the fact that it was done now - late August - would certainly give weight to that! If the club step back after relegation in May and said, "right, who stays & who goes in CM"... then it looks for much of the summer like there is no huge rush to get rid of Adam, Fletcher, Imbula, N'Diaye (even Cameron). Everyone at the club seems happy with Allen, Fletcher, N'Diaye and Etobo. Then the season starts - Leeds happens - Clucas arrives - the announcement that four can leave - rumours for Arter and then Woods comes... Yep, it looks a bit like the result of another Stoke "planning session" all round in the final week of the window.! So much seems to be done ‘on the hoof’. The fact that five years into this process there are still debates over who does what, who scouts, who decides, who signs, is to me a sign that everything is very haphazard. After that amount of time, surely even us supporters outside the loop would know how the process works like clockwork. The fact that none of us are sure just who is to blame and to what degree, tells me that the process isn’t anywhere near as defined as it should be. By that I mean it’s a shambles. Yes, totally agree. Its hard to progress as a club while this is going on. Pointed out elsewhere that our main Sports Science bod came from Bury in Jan after Hughes was appointed; the old one going off to Seattle Sounders of all places. But, with all due respect to the guy, when you look at the CVs of these folks now with PL clubs, they are a lot more impressive than Bury. I may be dead wrong, but it suggests the club don't really invest or see the "back office" teams and things like "due diligence processes" as integral to their decision making. The silver lining - I can see some logic in probably most of Rowett's actions so far - Clucas, Ince, Afobe, Woods, Etobo all 25ish or under - Only Etobo is on a steep learning curve. Re: Maclean, i think were 5-10 better options, but we needed grit, speed and aggression - and guess he does have some of that about him - so its a "wait and see". Overall though, resigned to thinking this is going to take him at least a season just to flush the club of deadwood and have 11 competent, honest players lining up for us - playing to a system - and he is going to have to fighting with the club a lot of the way to get there.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Aug 27, 2018 9:21:44 GMT
As things stand we are going to be racking up some serious debts this season, even with the 55% parachute payment. Yes, seems we are doing what Villa did, and not reduce our wage bill markedly in Yr 1. The bean-counters would feel a bit happier, i bet, if they could bank 12m+ for N'Diaye this coming week (and shunt one or two more, like ECM).... Can only think N'Diaye is quite close to going otherwise they wouldn't have sanctioned Woods, but goodness knows whats going on finance wise!. Yes, I also wonder if the bean-counters had £30m penciled in their Excel document for the sale of Jack Butland and it's not happened. I bet none of the columns add up any more!
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 10:00:12 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 10:00:12 GMT
As you suggest I haven't seen him in a Stoke shirt for quite a while and that's because he' hasn't played in a Stoke shirt for quite a while. I did manage to watch him on satelite tv for Touluse (sp?) and while he didn't exactly run around like the headless chicken that some Stoke supporters idolise - Berahino seems to have won you over on account of exactly that - he did show he remains a skillful player but in a struggling team. I think your obvious distaste for the player borders on ignorance or worse. Aguero apparently has an English vocabulary of some fifty words despite living in the country for several years and it doesn't stop him from being first choice for Citeh even if he too seems lazy at times. But at Stoke we can't afford to give the player a chance, because he doesn't say good morning. I will admit his body language probably goes against him, but you know, looks can be deceiving. I'm about the same height and body build (well to be honest I'm probably a little heavier) and I can't count the amount of times I've been called lazy just because of the way I move. As you say he looked good when he first arrived, but then something changed. I think MH tried to turn him into something he wasn't, and that's not really Imbula's fault. That said Imbula hasn't helped himself, by keeping himself to himself, although that was something Bowen said at the time was okay. As I've already stated countless times we might recall him if other players fail to do the business, and some already have, but I'm not suggesting that he's first in line to replace the names that have played so far. Personally I would like nothing more than seeing Lasse and Thibaud being given an opportunity to establish themselves, at least in the matchday squad, but there isn't much in GR's selections that suggests that that is about to happen. Moreover neither of those players play where Imbula might make an impact. It's not too easy to define which system GR prefers from his first five games, so I will say he has shown himself to be tactically flexible. He does however seem to follow the traditional emphasis on two wide players. I'm suggesting there might be a situation in a game, where at halftime or some later point in the second half we might dispense with the orthodox wingplay and send on Imbula as an impact sub to play as a leftsided attacking midfielder either replacing Mcclean or the current Berahino position (I don't see Saido lasting long, no matter how much he runs he's never going to score, it's as simple as that, so that position is up for grabs, but Bojan is probably first in line for that) - sort of to play in a similar fashion as Davide Silva. I would not send him on for Allen. They are just not alike in any way, even if he's been poor, his energy levels and running is not something you will see from Imbula. But G might just score goals and make decisive passes, and that's exactly what we need. Fella I didn't intend replying but I simply can't let this fucker go. If you're implying with that line that I'm in any way racist then you'd better clarify or fucking retract it pronto. I dislike Imbula because he's a wastrel who's taking the piss out of our club and us supporters and the fact that he has failed to integrate himself into the changing room or the language is simply a symptom of that. It has absolutely fucking nothing to do with the colour of his skin. This is definitely my last comment on the subject and I hope you and G live a long and happy life together somewhere nowhere near Stoke City Football Club. I most certainly did not term you a racist. After all you suck up to Berahino, at least for the time being. Thanks for not embarrassing yourself with further comments...
|
|
|
Post by rondogmcmuffin on Aug 27, 2018 10:47:55 GMT
Fella I didn't intend replying but I simply can't let this fucker go. If you're implying with that line that I'm in any way racist then you'd better clarify or fucking retract it pronto. I dislike Imbula because he's a wastrel who's taking the piss out of our club and us supporters and the fact that he has failed to integrate himself into the changing room or the language is simply a symptom of that. It has absolutely fucking nothing to do with the colour of his skin. This is definitely my last comment on the subject and I hope you and G live a long and happy life together somewhere nowhere near Stoke City Football Club. I most certainly did not term you a racist. After all you suck up to Berahino, at least for the time being. Thanks for not embarrassing yourself with further comments... Fishing for a bite with that last sentence haha! I couldn't resist replying if someone said that to me.
|
|
|
Post by rondogmcmuffin on Aug 27, 2018 11:04:43 GMT
Yes, seems we are doing what Villa did, and not reduce our wage bill markedly in Yr 1. The bean-counters would feel a bit happier, i bet, if they could bank 12m+ for N'Diaye this coming week (and shunt one or two more, like ECM).... Can only think N'Diaye is quite close to going otherwise they wouldn't have sanctioned Woods, but goodness knows whats going on finance wise!. Yes, I also wonder if the bean-counters had £30m penciled in their Excel document for the sales of Jack and it's not happened. I bet none of the columns add up any more! Highly doubt they can uae excel to be fair
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 11:14:04 GMT
Post by FullerMagic on Aug 27, 2018 11:14:04 GMT
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 11:18:52 GMT
Post by Laughing Gravy on Aug 27, 2018 11:18:52 GMT
|
|
|
Post by scfc5 on Aug 27, 2018 11:19:57 GMT
Well, I'd prefer sales, but I guess this is the next best alternative. Gets them away from here, damaging our atmosphere.
|
|
|
Post by berahinosgoals on Aug 27, 2018 12:11:41 GMT
Looks increasingly like we don't need them 👋
Etebo Allen Clucas Woods Sorenson
Not a bad bunch at all.
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 12:18:46 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 12:18:46 GMT
Do you understand present tense? Yes. Do you understand the concept of drawing conclusions based on evidence? You’ve managed to completely absolve him of any responsibility for his failure over the last few years. He’s been the record signing for two clubs in a row who wanted him gone within a year. His loan spell saw Toulouse fans write an open letter to him asking him to put some effort in and his manager call him a disgrace. You seem to be suggesting that none of that, nor his numerous poor performances with us, count, but his handful of good ones nearly three years ago do. How does that work? As for the ‘sort of player he is’, what is that exactly? He hasn’t got a defensive instinct to play DM, he’s painfully one footed and he has something like three career assists, so he isn’t a creative type either... When you draw a line in the sand, you erase all data, good or bad, from the hard disk. I know it's "painfully" hard for you to do, not just in the case of Imbula but any other player.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 27, 2018 12:20:32 GMT
Yes. Do you understand the concept of drawing conclusions based on evidence? You’ve managed to completely absolve him of any responsibility for his failure over the last few years. He’s been the record signing for two clubs in a row who wanted him gone within a year. His loan spell saw Toulouse fans write an open letter to him asking him to put some effort in and his manager call him a disgrace. You seem to be suggesting that none of that, nor his numerous poor performances with us, count, but his handful of good ones nearly three years ago do. How does that work? As for the ‘sort of player he is’, what is that exactly? He hasn’t got a defensive instinct to play DM, he’s painfully one footed and he has something like three career assists, so he isn’t a creative type either... When you draw a line in the sand, you erase all data, good or bad, from the hard disk. I know it's "painfully" hard for you to do, not just in the case of Imbula but any other player. Life doesn’t work that way. You can’t just bury your head in the sand and pretend the past never happened.
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 12:24:35 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 12:24:35 GMT
The Turkish club is quite wealthy, so we may wave goodbye to Ndiaye. But the three Spanish clubs mentioned are all hard up, so no matter how the Stoke PR Dept. will dress this up, this will be a money losing exercise for us. Moreover the Imbula problem won't have been solved, when he goes to struggle at a struggling club. Within a year or maybe even sooner he will be back to whistle buenos dias to anyone who will listen.
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 12:25:16 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 12:25:16 GMT
When you draw a line in the sand, you erase all data, good or bad, from the hard disk. I know it's "painfully" hard for you to do, not just in the case of Imbula but any other player. Life doesn’t work that way. You can’t just bury your head in the sand and pretend the past never happened. That's your life, not mine.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 27, 2018 13:17:01 GMT
Life doesn’t work that way. You can’t just bury your head in the sand and pretend the past never happened. That's your life, not mine. It’s just life. You yourself have based your argument on the good stuff he’s done in the past, which is pretty selective don’t you think?
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 13:20:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 13:20:19 GMT
Good. Just Adam, Cameron and Choupo-Moting to ship out now before Friday and then the squad can get on with the job in hand free from all this bollocks....
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 14:01:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 27, 2018 14:01:00 GMT
Are we getting a loan fee from Vallecano or are our players so toxic we don't so that anymore?
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 14:10:37 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 14:10:37 GMT
That's your life, not mine. It’s just life. You yourself have based your argument on the good stuff he’s done in the past, which is pretty selective don’t you think? I'm not blind to his attitude. I've stated above I think he'll struggle at Rayo (if he goes there). I just think we're talking about real people, not just literal dead wood, and that he still could do a job for us, at first as an impact sub, and if that works out he could play selected games for us (I wouldn't pick him vs the likes of Boro, for instance). He's no different than any other player in the sense he needs to feel wanted, needs to regain confidence, be given an honest chance and a decent run in the team. If his contract was running out next month, then by all means, "get rid", but as it runs another three or four seasons, depending on the terms, we'd do better for ourselves if we tried to deal with the matter ourselves. But now (if it's Rayo) we've just postponed the problem. We've also prolonged it, because no doubt the Sentinel et al will do regular reports on how it goes, and new threads at the Oatcake will emerge, thereby ensuring he's never out of sight.
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 14:11:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by Absolution on Aug 27, 2018 14:11:18 GMT
Are we getting a loan fee from Vallecano or are our players so toxic we don't so that anymore? No one's ever heard of them and their ground holds 14,700. What do you think? 😏
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 14:14:24 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 14:14:24 GMT
Good. Just Adam, Cameron and Choupo-Moting to ship out now before Friday and then the squad can get on with the job in hand free from all this bollocks.... And Fletcher, Pieters, Shawcross, and Berahino (because his problem will resurface, although he's flavour of the week right now). Plus we still need to get fully rid of Wimmer. If pushed, I'd keep Ryan on.
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 14:24:12 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 14:24:12 GMT
Are we getting a loan fee from Vallecano or are our players so toxic we don't so that anymore? No one's ever heard of them and their ground holds 14,700. What do you think? 😏 They're like the WBA of Spanish football. A complete yo yo team. They did have a spell a spell a while back where they managed to stay up for few seasons, even qualifying for Europe, but mostly it's been about relegation or promotion. They don't have any money. We'll probably be paying them a fee just to take Imbula...just kidding! But I do think we will be paying the majority of his wages.
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 14:26:20 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 27, 2018 14:26:20 GMT
It’s just life. You yourself have based your argument on the good stuff he’s done in the past, which is pretty selective don’t you think? I'm not blind to his attitude. I've stated above I think he'll struggle at Rayo (if he goes there). I just think we're talking about real people, not just literal dead wood, and that he still could do a job for us, at first as an impact sub, and if that works out he could play selected games for us (I wouldn't pick him vs the likes of Boro, for instance). He's no different than any other player in the sense he needs to feel wanted, needs to regain confidence, be given an honest chance and a decent run in the team. If his contract was running out next month, then by all means, "get rid", but as it runs another three or four seasons, depending on the terms, we'd do better for ourselves if we tried to deal with the matter ourselves. But now (if it's Rayo) we've just postponed the problem. We've also prolonged it, because no doubt the Sentinel et al will do regular reports on how it goes, and new threads at the Oatcake will emerge, thereby ensuring he's never out of sight. If he earns an opportunity for any kind of redemption with us, great. It's almost certainly not going to happen though. Some signings don't work out, and the primary responsibility is with the player to sort themselves out.
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 14:31:33 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 14:31:33 GMT
Good. Just Adam, Cameron and Choupo-Moting to ship out now before Friday and then the squad can get on with the job in hand free from all this bollocks.... And Fletcher, Pieters, Shawcross, and Berahino (because his problem will resurface, although he's flavour of the week right now). Plus we still need to get fully rid of Wimmer. If pushed, I'd keep Ryan on. Not going to happen in a million years, we have 1 or 2 loan signings max to come in.....
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 14:38:22 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 14:38:22 GMT
I'm not blind to his attitude. I've stated above I think he'll struggle at Rayo (if he goes there). I just think we're talking about real people, not just literal dead wood, and that he still could do a job for us, at first as an impact sub, and if that works out he could play selected games for us (I wouldn't pick him vs the likes of Boro, for instance). He's no different than any other player in the sense he needs to feel wanted, needs to regain confidence, be given an honest chance and a decent run in the team. If his contract was running out next month, then by all means, "get rid", but as it runs another three or four seasons, depending on the terms, we'd do better for ourselves if we tried to deal with the matter ourselves. But now (if it's Rayo) we've just postponed the problem. We've also prolonged it, because no doubt the Sentinel et al will do regular reports on how it goes, and new threads at the Oatcake will emerge, thereby ensuring he's never out of sight. If he earns an opportunity for any kind of redemption with us, great. It's almost certainly not going to happen though. Some signings don't work out, and the primary responsibility is with the player to sort themselves out. That's not going to happen while GR's in charge. He's just stated that he wants a team of eleven McCleans, so that precludes any Shaqs, Arnies, Bojans let alone Imbula. Moreover we proably don't need those types of players if we are to have a long life in the Championship, which it looks like, with more McCleans coming our way in the next transfer windows. But a lot of things would have looked different if we'd appointed QSF or somebody else of that ilk. He would almost certainly have given Imbula that chance, though as you say, it's up to the player to take it or not.
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 14:50:09 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 27, 2018 14:50:09 GMT
If he earns an opportunity for any kind of redemption with us, great. It's almost certainly not going to happen though. Some signings don't work out, and the primary responsibility is with the player to sort themselves out. That's not going to happen while GR's in charge. He's just stated that he wants a team of eleven McCleans, so that precludes any Shaqs, Arnies, Bojans let alone Imbula. Moreover we proably don't need those types of players if we are to have a long life in the Championship, which it looks like, with more McCleans coming our way in the next transfer windows. But a lot of things would have looked different if we'd appointed QSF or somebody else of that ilk. He would almost certainly have given Imbula that chance, though as you say, it's up to the player to take it or not. I'm not sure he would to be honest - QSF is very much a safety first manager as well. The problem with Imbula is it's difficult to know what kind of player he is. He's not creative enough to be a number 10 and he's not defensive enough to play deeper.
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 15:34:02 GMT
Post by baystokie on Aug 27, 2018 15:34:02 GMT
No one's ever heard of them and their ground holds 14,700. What do you think? 😏 They're like the WBA of Spanish football. A complete yo yo team. They did have a spell a spell a while back where they managed to stay up for few seasons, even qualifying for Europe, but mostly it's been about relegation or promotion. They don't have any money. We'll probably be paying them a fee just to take Imbula...just kidding! But I do think we will be paying the majority of his wages. I don't see how anyone on here can know what loan fee is being paid, our contribution (if any) to his wages and even whether or not there's any end-of-deal options - we may guess, we may think so everything is conjecture or wishful thinking
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 15:54:18 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 15:54:18 GMT
They're like the WBA of Spanish football. A complete yo yo team. They did have a spell a spell a while back where they managed to stay up for few seasons, even qualifying for Europe, but mostly it's been about relegation or promotion. They don't have any money. We'll probably be paying them a fee just to take Imbula...just kidding! But I do think we will be paying the majority of his wages. I don't see how anyone on here can know what loan fee is being paid, our contribution (if any) to his wages and even whether or not there's any end-of-deal options - we may guess, we may think so everything is conjecture or wishful thinking We can form our opinions on how similar deals often pan out, but opinions is all that the Oatcake is. If for some bizarre reason opinions were banned there would only be one message is every week...
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 16:04:53 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 16:04:53 GMT
That's not going to happen while GR's in charge. He's just stated that he wants a team of eleven McCleans, so that precludes any Shaqs, Arnies, Bojans let alone Imbula. Moreover we proably don't need those types of players if we are to have a long life in the Championship, which it looks like, with more McCleans coming our way in the next transfer windows. But a lot of things would have looked different if we'd appointed QSF or somebody else of that ilk. He would almost certainly have given Imbula that chance, though as you say, it's up to the player to take it or not. I'm not sure he would to be honest - QSF is very much a safety first manager as well. The problem with Imbula is it's difficult to know what kind of player he is. He's not creative enough to be a number 10 and he's not defensive enough to play deeper. I agree on the latter part. That's part of the mistake Hughes made, he tried to play him as a Kante which he wasn't, and he tried to play him as a dm, which was disatrous. I think he is very much a ten-ish player, but he likes to come from deeper positions, make runs which tear open defences, but with limited understanding from his team mates (although I think training should have sorted that out eventually) those runs often went nowhere with team mates just looking on instead of trying to exploit the spaces he opened, or he would shoot himself, which did lead to a couple of stunners, but because of his blatant one-footed play was easy to block. I think he should probably be positioned like a Hazard or Zidane, i.e wide on the left when the opposition has the ball, and anywhere he chooses when the ball is at his feet. Problem of course is that even as we aspired to an upper midtable team we were never Real or Chelsea, so in many games he was a luxury we couldn't afford.
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 16:22:41 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 27, 2018 16:22:41 GMT
I'm not sure he would to be honest - QSF is very much a safety first manager as well. The problem with Imbula is it's difficult to know what kind of player he is. He's not creative enough to be a number 10 and he's not defensive enough to play deeper. I agree on the latter part. That's part of the mistake Hughes made, he tried to play him as a Kante which he wasn't, and he tried to play him as a dm, which was disatrous. I think he is very much a ten-ish player, but he likes to come from deeper positions, make runs which tear open defences, but with limited understanding from his team mates (although I think training should have sorted that out eventually) those runs often went nowhere with team mates just looking on instead of trying to exploit the spaces he opened, or he would shoot himself, which did lead to a couple of stunners, but because of his blatant one-footed play was easy to block. I think he should probably be positioned like a Hazard or Zidane, i.e wide on the left when the opposition has the ball, and anywhere he chooses when the ball is at his feet. Problem of course is that even as we aspired to an upper midtable team we were never Real or Chelsea, so in many games he was a luxury we couldn't afford. He wasn't really creative though. Yes he drove forward but his decision making was poor, he held onto the ball too long, and he doesn't create many chances or have much in the way of career assists to his name.
|
|
|
Imbula
Aug 27, 2018 17:12:49 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 17:12:49 GMT
his decision making was poor, he held onto the ball too long, and he doesn't create many chances or have much in the way of career assists to his name. Because his team mates stood still and gazed amazed. What has happened before or after in his temporary post-Stoke career I don't really have much knowledge about. And I'm not holding my breath for his career at Rayo. It's the wrong move for them, but also for us, because we don't get the chance to see if he now can fulfill his potential - in the event that we sent a scout to follow up on him, like some other clubs do.
|
|