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Post by lommack on Aug 28, 2019 16:42:05 GMT
A good photograph to save for future generations showing the true enemies of the people an democracy Here’s a photograph for you to frame and hang on the wall. True enemies of the people and democracy!!! House in the small lounge Dennis
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 16:43:14 GMT
If Brexit happens on 31 October, there will be an election in the spring, maybe earlier. If Brexit turns out to be a disaster, there’s a very good chance Labour will be elected. If it’s a success, the Tories will probably win by a landslide. In either case, the electorate get to choose. Your time frame for deciding whether Brexit is a success or failure seems too short. On what basis will your judgement be? Economically there is bound to be a very difficult period whilst the economy re-aligns to life outside the EU, but in the long term the country will be better off like Australia, Canada, Switzerland, Singapore, etc. But many of us want to leave the EU because we don't want to be governed from Brussels. We voted to stay in a common market 40 years ago, not ever closer political union. There is no doubt there will a difficult economic situation, but not as bad as the remainers keep warning. We are the 5th biggest economy in the world, millions want to come and live here, we will be much better off in the long term. The EU is fighting hard to keep us in, they need to keep exporting to us and for us to keep paying for Brussels and Strasburg. For example, we are the #1 export country for French champagne, France would stupid to start a trade war. Germany has a €25 billion trade balance with us. Boris wants a trade deal and the only leverage he has with the EU is to say give one or we crash out, which is the last thing the EU wants. The EU are not going to budge an inch as long as they think there is a strong enough lobby in the UK to stop a no deal situation. Boris is increasing the pressure on the EU to do what is best in the whole of Europe's interest. I think that you are correct on the timescale Mr Coke but I think that Partick is correct that if the SHORT TERM difficult period is sold to us as ' i told you , BREXIT is a disaster, project fear has become true,", then if there is an election in this period people may be frightened into blaming Boris/ voting for Remain parties.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 28, 2019 16:44:12 GMT
Noting that Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union ( link), I rather think that those people who fought and died for this country would be quite happy with what has happened today. Correct. 40 years ago I argued vehemently with my father about being in the EEC as it was then. He was totally opposed to giving up sovereignty to the Europe, whilst I believed being in the common market would be good. I was wrong and events of the last 40 years, particularly the last 3, have proven that my father was totally correct, God rest his soul. Surely the events of the last three years have said more about Britains inability to govern itself effectively than anything else - the greatest single barrier to Brexit has been the gross incompetence and self serving opportunism the elected members of our own sovereign parliament.
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Post by butlerstbob on Aug 28, 2019 16:44:47 GMT
You do realise that a coup is an action against a government don't you? A government can't complete a coup against itself. Looking at most of your posts on this thread today, you seem to have an extraordinary lack of grasp of how these things work. Oh I don't know closing down the democratically elected heart of government to get what you want might be construed as a coup. Get ready for the medal adorned General Fothering Smythe on the 6 o'clock news telling you that everything is fine nothing to see here. And just how do things work in your fully informed world? Closing debate in the country and telling elected representatives to bugger off is ok is it? The hypocrisy is astounding "Closing debate in the country and telling elected representatives to bugger off is ok is it? The hypocrisy is ASTOUNDING" Oh the Irony, your lot have been doing this for 3 years!
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Post by henry on Aug 28, 2019 16:46:32 GMT
So a Parliament that voted 70%-30% in ruling out No Deal is now being sidelined to pursue a no deal. The default position of this country is that the top hat wearing lunatics in the ERG get what they want over 80% of the population in the last poll on the matter That constitutes democracy in the UK 2019? Let's be honest and stop this fucking bullshit, those 70% aren't opposing No Deal they are opposing Brexit. I'm actually pissing myself listening to the likes is Soubrey and Grieve blubbering because they've been outwitted by this bumbling prime minister. I don't think the country can stomach any more extensions or another referendum. We seem to have stumbled across a prime minister who is prepared to lead and make decisions. I said a while ago, Boris taking over has got Labour shitting it. Only time will tell, but he looks a proper leader and a breath of fresh air.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 16:47:59 GMT
Correct. 40 years ago I argued vehemently with my father about being in the EEC as it was then. He was totally opposed to giving up sovereignty to the Europe, whilst I believed being in the common market would be good. I was wrong and events of the last 40 years, particularly the last 3, have proven that my father was totally correct, God rest his soul. Surely the events of the last three years have said more about Britains inability to govern itself effectively than anything else - the greatest single barrier to Brexit has been the gross incompetence and self serving opportunism the elected members of our own sovereign parliament. Yes We do need a new set of parliamentarians. Most of these lot see their role as telling us what to do, think or say.... rather than making any attempt to represent the electorate, to listen understand and then lead. " We know best"....career politicians, largely out of touch. I think that we have become out of the habit of being leaders because we are stifled by the EU, little room for manouvre when the EU decides on the Industrial policy, trade policy, agricultural policy etc.....as Ken Clarke said, can't wait for the time when London is an administrative outpost of Brussels ( or words to that effect)
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 16:50:52 GMT
Seems like Ruth Davidson - the leader of the Tories in Scotland - is going to quit.
The reason being given is a mix of her objection to No Deal Brexit and personal pressures as a recent first time mother.
The real reason is she painted herself into a corner. I guess some might say that is a consequence of her principles (no doubt Nicola Sturgeon will say something along those lines), others might say she was incredibly naive.
Regardless, figuring out how to maintain the Scottish Tory recovery of recent years will be a priority for Johnson. In part to secure his position in Westminster but also to keep the fight going against the SNP. On one level that shouldn’t be too hard; what the Tories have done in recent times up here is to be seen as the Unionist party who stands up to the SNP.
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Post by xchpotter on Aug 28, 2019 16:52:33 GMT
Well this makes things interesting now. This whole Brexit and Anti Brexit thing is hopefully coming to a head. It’s naturally got to happen and whatever the outcome for each side I’m glad it is, as just brushing it under the carpet without a balls in final battle would just leave it festering for years to come.
Some will be happy and some unhappy with a final outcome, but it has to happen. I liken it to a couple of heavyweight boxers who have danced around getting in the ring for years before they finally do, or Harry Potter...you know he’ll have to face down Voldermort at some point and it took years to do so.
May the best man/woman/thing win.👍
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Post by lommack on Aug 28, 2019 16:52:51 GMT
Oh I don't know closing down the democratically elected heart of government to get what you want might be construed as a coup. Get ready for the medal adorned General Fothering Smythe on the 6 o'clock news telling you that everything is fine nothing to see here. And just how do things work in your fully informed world? Closing debate in the country and telling elected representatives to bugger off is ok is it? The hypocrisy is astounding "Closing debate in the country and telling elected representatives to bugger off is ok is it? The hypocrisy is ASTOUNDING" Oh the Irony, your lot have been doing this for 3 years! My lot.???? Parliament has been doing its job, we live in a parliamentary democracy, not any more apparently government by executive it is then.
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Post by serpico on Aug 28, 2019 16:57:39 GMT
Parliament voted to enact article50 meaning we leave with or without a deal, they then rejected a deal 3 times so they’ve only themselves to blame.
If Mays withdrawal agreeement had been any weaker it would be tantamount to remaining, so they had a chance to vote for the softest possible version of brexit and they rejected it making no deal more or less inevitable.
70% of parliament voted to remain, this has been the problem all along, they’ve tried to use parliamentary processes to thwart the will of the people, so I don’t see how they can complain when Boris uses an equally undemocratic process to force through brexit.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 28, 2019 17:02:01 GMT
I haven’t posted onthis thread for ages but really what did they expect? Our MPs who have again and again stood in the way of a democratically mandated instruction to leave the European Union. The we-know-better than you 'experts', the London political elite who see all those who voted for Brexit as the thick, uneducated enemy. They talk of democracy but since losing the vote on 23 June 2016 this rabble of disrespectful MPs have done nothing to honour the referendum result but have again and again sabotaged Brexit, and by extension sabotaged Britain. But it's now game over. Yippee.
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 28, 2019 17:02:48 GMT
"Closing debate in the country and telling elected representatives to bugger off is ok is it? The hypocrisy is ASTOUNDING" Oh the Irony, your lot have been doing this for 3 years! My lot.???? Parliament has been doing its job, we live in a parliamentary democracy, not any more apparently government by executive it is then. What part of democracy covers actively plotting against the government. What part of democracy covers Labour frustrating Brexit to try and get JC as PM? It's hypocritical bullshit because the PM has done their traitorous legs. Democracy has had 3 years to sort this but the plotters did not want it but they've failed.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 17:09:31 GMT
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Post by lommack on Aug 28, 2019 17:13:03 GMT
My lot.???? Parliament has been doing its job, we live in a parliamentary democracy, not any more apparently government by executive it is then. What part of democracy covers actively plotting against the government. What part of democracy covers Labour frustrating Brexit to try and get JC as PM? It's hypocritical bullshit because the PM has done their traitorous legs. Democracy has had 3 years to sort this but the plotters did not want it but they've failed. I'll say it again. If the ERG and the Irish from the 17th century had voted for it we would have left in March. This is about the power of the elite and getting what they want by by-passing parliament and getting the no deal they crave. And the irony of it all is they are saying fuck democracy.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 17:18:20 GMT
What part of democracy covers actively plotting against the government. What part of democracy covers Labour frustrating Brexit to try and get JC as PM? It's hypocritical bullshit because the PM has done their traitorous legs. Democracy has had 3 years to sort this but the plotters did not want it but they've failed. I'll say it again. If the ERG and the Irish from the 17th century had voted for it we would have left in March. This is about the power of the elite and getting what they want by by-passing parliament and getting the no deal they crave. And the irony of it all is they are saying fuck democracy. Keep up! Let's look forward , not back.
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 28, 2019 17:21:30 GMT
What part of democracy covers actively plotting against the government. What part of democracy covers Labour frustrating Brexit to try and get JC as PM? It's hypocritical bullshit because the PM has done their traitorous legs. Democracy has had 3 years to sort this but the plotters did not want it but they've failed. I'll say it again. If the ERG and the Irish from the 17th century had voted for it we would have left in March. This is about the power of the elite and getting what they want by by-passing parliament and getting the no deal they crave. And the irony of it all is they are saying fuck democracy. Except there were three votes for a deal and they were rejected by Labour because they thought it would bring the government down and get JC into No10. No reason to vote against it other than party politics that's democracy? Serves them right they've fucked it up and no deal is the by product of Labour treachery. If it's any consolation I still think a deal will go through because they will have no option but to accept it now and no time to plot anymore. I was told weeks ago any deal Boris brings will pass because they know he'll take us out No deal, that is 100% what will happen. The EU will now also be shiting it he's calling the bluff of the people who are trying openly to get us to remain.
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Post by felonious on Aug 28, 2019 17:26:51 GMT
What part of democracy covers actively plotting against the government. What part of democracy covers Labour frustrating Brexit to try and get JC as PM? It's hypocritical bullshit because the PM has done their traitorous legs. Democracy has had 3 years to sort this but the plotters did not want it but they've failed. I'll say it again. If the ERG and the Irish from the 17th century had voted for it we would have left in March. This is about the power of the elite and getting what they want by by-passing parliament and getting the no deal they crave. And the irony of it all is they are saying fuck democracy. Irony
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Post by felonious on Aug 28, 2019 17:31:56 GMT
Well I must admit to have been taken aback somewhat as the last three Remainers I've spoken to have stated that Brexit has got to go ahead for the sake of democracy.
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Post by thevoid on Aug 28, 2019 17:37:29 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Aug 28, 2019 17:42:24 GMT
Only leaving without a deal on WTO terms will force these cunts to start working for this country.
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Post by salopstick on Aug 28, 2019 17:44:46 GMT
Parliament voted to enact article50 meaning we leave with or without a deal, they then rejected a deal 3 times so they’ve only themselves to blame. If Mays withdrawal agreeement had been any weaker it would be tantamount to remaining, so they had a chance to vote for the softest possible version of brexit and they rejected it making no deal more or less inevitable. 70% of parliament voted to remain, this has been the problem all along, they’ve tried to use parliamentary processes to thwart the will of the people, so I don’t see how they can complain when Boris uses an equally undemocratic process to force through brexit. You can’t see how they can complain? Open your eyes mate Plenty on here agree with them
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Post by butlerstbob on Aug 28, 2019 17:47:41 GMT
I haven’t posted onthis thread for ages but really what did they expect? Our MPs who have again and again stood in the way of a democratically mandated instruction to leave the European Union. The we-know-better than you 'experts', the London political elite who see all those who voted for Brexit as the thick, uneducated enemy. They talk of democracy but since losing the vote on 23 June 2016 this rabble of disrespectful MPs have done nothing to honour the referendum result but have again and again sabotaged Brexit, and by extension sabotaged Britain. But it's now game over. Yippee. 👏👏👏
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 17:49:23 GMT
What part of democracy covers actively plotting against the government. What part of democracy covers Labour frustrating Brexit to try and get JC as PM? It's hypocritical bullshit because the PM has done their traitorous legs. Democracy has had 3 years to sort this but the plotters did not want it but they've failed. I'll say it again. If the ERG and the Irish from the 17th century had voted for it we would have left in March. This is about the power of the elite and getting what they want by by-passing parliament and getting the no deal they crave. And the irony of it all is they are saying fuck democracy. You have to understand Lommack, democracy a very moveable feast for the right wingers on this board. As my old Grandma used to say, 'they're fucking hypocrites.'
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Post by salopstick on Aug 28, 2019 17:50:30 GMT
I'll say it again. If the ERG and the Irish from the 17th century had voted for it we would have left in March. This is about the power of the elite and getting what they want by by-passing parliament and getting the no deal they crave. And the irony of it all is they are saying fuck democracy. You have to understand Lommack, democracy a very moveable feast for the right wingers on this board. As my old Grandma used to say, 'they're fucking hypocrites.' She would fucking love jezza then
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Post by felonious on Aug 28, 2019 17:52:29 GMT
Only leaving without a deal on WTO terms will force these cunts to start working for this country. Don't hold your breath, some of them have been working for the EU for decades.
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 28, 2019 17:55:33 GMT
Unelected PM suspends Parliament ...... I thought this only happened in dodgy South American dictatorships.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 17:58:23 GMT
Unelected PM suspends Parliament ...... I thought this only happened in dodgy South American dictatorships. I think that we need voter id as well.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 17:59:22 GMT
Unelected PM suspends Parliament ...... I thought this only happened in dodgy South American dictatorships. I’ll type this slowly so you can take your time to understand a simple fact about how democracy works in this country... We don’t elect a PM.
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Post by Miles Offside on Aug 28, 2019 18:06:43 GMT
I'll say it again. If the ERG and the Irish from the 17th century had voted for it we would have left in March. This is about the power of the elite and getting what they want by by-passing parliament and getting the no deal they crave. And the irony of it all is they are saying fuck democracy. You have to understand Lommack, democracy a very moveable feast for the right wingers on this board. As my old Grandma used to say, 'they're fucking hypocrites.' There are plenty of examples of democracy being a very moveable feast for the Left, too. In this case, though, I don't think Leave/Remain is a Left/Right issue.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 18:08:30 GMT
You have to understand Lommack, democracy a very moveable feast for the right wingers on this board. As my old Grandma used to say, 'they're fucking hypocrites.' There are plenty of examples of democracy being a very moveable feast for the Left, too. In this case, though, I don't think Leave/Remain is a Left/Right issue. Mo sees everything as left or right. He should take a trip to spec savers. They might also help with that red tinted vision defect he also suffers from.
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