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Post by Northy on Aug 28, 2019 15:40:14 GMT
How is it a precedent, Ive already posted a bit back that in answer to Essex that it was labour in 1948 that set the precedent, anybody now attempting to amount a legal challenge will be setting a precedent.. Proroguing is a common thing, prorogation is a prerogative act of the Crown and the Queen accepts the advice of her ministers as to when to prorogue. Oh come on mate, this pretence that this perfectly normal and not to do with Brexit as the Fat Dictator said earlier, shows utter and complete contempt to the people of this country. this normal pretence? have you not seen what the bunch of objectors have been doing for 3 years since they lost a vote, that shows utter and complete contempt for the people of this country.
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Post by Northy on Aug 28, 2019 15:41:49 GMT
Don't tell me deep down that none of you don't find setting this precedent very worrying? Now the cat is out of the bag it can be used for anything at any time... be very careful what you cheer for especially with characters like Johnson I don't think people are cheering, just pointing out the hypocrisy, labour supporters moaning yet it was Labour that set the precedent of this process in 1948
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 28, 2019 15:44:57 GMT
No one seems to actually be thinking about what will happen to the UK here. It's all about winning the leave or remain war based on which way you voted. Whatever achieves that end is fine no matter how underhand it may be. There are probably a lot of people who voted leave who would now prefer to remain, and vica versa. There are probably a lot of people who didn't bother to vote last time around but now would. There are probably a lot people who voted last time that have now passed away, as well there being a lot that have now reached the legal age to vote. It's been 3 years of bullshit so far so why not just have a second referendum and find out once and for all what the majority wants. Than have it written up that it will be acted on on a predefined date, no exceptions. Quite. Seems to me that the Leave side of the debate have lost all arguement that the UK will be in anyway better off any time soon by leaving with even the current governments own assessment of the likely consequences of a No Deal suggesting that Project Fear was anything but. For the Leavers 'leave' has become the be all and end all with the only arguement left standing being that of an extremely narrow referendum result and whilst it is the job of government to respect the mandate it is not their job to do so at any cost. As a remainer, a believer in democracy and a sometime negotiator I respect the referendum, hope for a deal and understand how a negotiating position is weakened by taking No Deal off the table. On the basis that the best outcome for Johnsons broad personal popularity (and therefore his colossal ego) would be to deliver a deal thereby pacifying the moderates within both the leave and the remain camps I still hold that hope, however I can't help but think he's little more than a useful idiot in this process as a stooge for the right of the Conservatives looking to both see off the threat of Farage and seize the initiative on a populist and divisive right wing agenda which will damage this country for all but a few for a couple of generations or more.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 15:45:40 GMT
So a Parliament that voted 70%-30% in ruling out No Deal is now being sidelined to pursue a no deal. The default position of this country is that the top hat wearing lunatics in the ERG get what they want over 80% of the population in the last poll on the matter That constitutes democracy in the UK 2019? Let's be honest and stop this fucking bullshit, those 70% aren't opposing No Deal they are opposing Brexit. I'm actually pissing myself listening to the likes is Soubrey and Grieve blubbering because they've been outwitted by this bumbling prime minister. I don't think the country can stomach any more extensions or another referendum. We seem to have stumbled across a prime minister who is prepared to lead and make decisions. Exactly. My biggest error in predictions is one where I said something like Boris was a bumbling fool who must never be PM. Early days, but he is turning out to be an extraordinary leader. By which I mean a leader capable of getting something done. Which after three years of prevarication is most welcome.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 15:47:34 GMT
Don't tell me deep down that none of you don't find setting this precedent very worrying? Now the cat is out of the bag it can be used for anything at any time... be very careful what you cheer for especially with characters like Johnson and any characters that follow Deep down I don't find setting this precedent very worrying. I find a concerted effort to thwart democracy and give control of our sovereignty to an undemocratic German and French led EU more concerning ( i don't tend to worry). Exceptional times require exceptional action.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 15:50:31 GMT
No one seems to actually be thinking about what will happen to the UK here. It's all about winning the leave or remain war based on which way you voted. Whatever achieves that end is fine no matter how underhand it may be. There are probably a lot of people who voted leave who would now prefer to remain, and vica versa. There are probably a lot of people who didn't bother to vote last time around but now would. There are probably a lot people who voted last time that have now passed away, as well there being a lot that have now reached the legal age to vote. It's been 3 years of bullshit so far so why not just have a second referendum and find out once and for all what the majority wants. Than have it written up that it will be acted on on a predefined date, no exceptions. Quite. Seems to me that the Leave side of the debate have lost all arguement that the UK will be in anyway better off any time soon by leaving with even the current governments own assessment of the likely consequences of a No Deal suggesting that Project Fear was anything but. For the Leavers 'leave' has become the be all and end all with the only arguement left standing being that of an extremely narrow referendum result and whilst it is the job of government to respect the mandate it is not their job to do so at any cost. As a remainer, a believer in democracy and a sometime negotiator I respect the referendum, hope for a deal and understand how a negotiating position is weakened by taking No Deal off the table. On the basis that the best outcome for Johnsons broad personal popularity (and therefore his colossal ego) would be to deliver a deal thereby pacifying the moderates within both the leave and the remain camps I still hold that hope, however I can't help but think he's little more than a useful idiot in this process as a stooge for the right of the Conservatives looking to both see off the threat of Farage and seize the initiative on a populist and divisive right wing agenda which will damage this country for all but a few for a couple of generations or more. If Brexit happens on 31 October, there will be an election in the spring, maybe earlier. If Brexit turns out to be a disaster, there’s a very good chance Labour will be elected. If it’s a success, the Tories will probably win by a landslide. In either case, the electorate get to choose.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 28, 2019 15:51:19 GMT
Let's be honest and stop this fucking bullshit, those 70% aren't opposing No Deal they are opposing Brexit. I'm actually pissing myself listening to the likes is Soubrey and Grieve blubbering because they've been outwitted by this bumbling prime minister. I don't think the country can stomach any more extensions or another referendum. We seem to have stumbled across a prime minister who is prepared to lead and make decisions. Many of them wouldn’t even vote for Mays half baked surrender BRINO withdrawal agreement so it’s obvious theyre opposed to brexit in all its forms. All they could come up with were those indicative votes that solved nothing. They have had 3 years to try and come up with a form of Brexit, but instead actively campaigned to Remain or have a People's Vote (an insult of a term). Now I see Burley and Remain MPs are crying "What about the people?". For 3 years they have been gleeful at every attempt to shaft the people by Parliament, loving winning votes by 1 and so on. It's a case of the biter bit.
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Post by lommack on Aug 28, 2019 15:56:31 GMT
Don't tell me deep down that none of you don't find setting this precedent very worrying? Now the cat is out of the bag it can be used for anything at any time... be very careful what you cheer for especially with characters like Johnson I don't think people are cheering, just pointing out the hypocrisy, labour supporters moaning yet it was Labour that set the precedent of this process in 1948 I think you might be on a sticky wicket with the hypocrisy route, the establishment have just closed off the democratic heart of the country. I wonder what those people would think who fought and died defending the freedoms and liberties of the country being threatened by a small number of elites who think they are more important than our democracy
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Post by yeokel on Aug 28, 2019 15:59:28 GMT
The parties at the election promised to honour the referendum result. That's important. Boris is trying to do that. The Remainers aren't. He shouldn't have to prorogue parliament in order to keep the promise to the electorate...but as Partick has said, to do so he would be acting within his parliamentary power. Perhaps you are in favour of parliamentary democracy because you can't accept leaving the EU and this has now become the latest way in which Remainers can see of getting their own way... have you considered that? Was the referendum result a "No Deal Brexit", BJR? I think my ballot paper was broken. There is nothing about deals or no deals in the image below. They kept it nice and simple for all of us - Do we Leave or do we Remain? The decision did NOT depend on having a deal in place.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 15:59:51 GMT
I don't think people are cheering, just pointing out the hypocrisy, labour supporters moaning yet it was Labour that set the precedent of this process in 1948 I think you might be on a sticky wicket with the hypocrisy route, the establishment have just closed off the democratic heart of the country. I wonder what those people would think who fought and died defending the freedoms and liberties of the country being threatened by a small number of elites who think they are more important than our democracy Many Tory MPs believe this. I wonder if they'll resign?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 28, 2019 16:02:46 GMT
What's been the EU's response to the latest events?
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 16:02:54 GMT
I don't think people are cheering, just pointing out the hypocrisy, labour supporters moaning yet it was Labour that set the precedent of this process in 1948 I think you might be on a sticky wicket with the hypocrisy route, the establishment have just closed off the democratic heart of the country. I wonder what those people would think who fought and died defending the freedoms and liberties of the country being threatened by a small number of elites who think they are more important than our democracy Noting that Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union ( link), I rather think that those people who fought and died for this country would be quite happy with what has happened today.
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Post by lommack on Aug 28, 2019 16:03:43 GMT
How long before we get a General on the tele telling us that the coup is complete?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 28, 2019 16:06:20 GMT
I think you might be on a sticky wicket with the hypocrisy route, the establishment have just closed off the democratic heart of the country. I wonder what those people would think who fought and died defending the freedoms and liberties of the country being threatened by a small number of elites who think they are more important than our democracy Noting that Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union ( link), I rather think that those people who fought and died for this country would be quite happy with what has happened today. And isn't the sudden respect for the elderly enchanting? The people who were hopefully going to die off to make way for right thinking youngsters!
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 28, 2019 16:07:09 GMT
Quite. Seems to me that the Leave side of the debate have lost all arguement that the UK will be in anyway better off any time soon by leaving with even the current governments own assessment of the likely consequences of a No Deal suggesting that Project Fear was anything but. For the Leavers 'leave' has become the be all and end all with the only arguement left standing being that of an extremely narrow referendum result and whilst it is the job of government to respect the mandate it is not their job to do so at any cost. As a remainer, a believer in democracy and a sometime negotiator I respect the referendum, hope for a deal and understand how a negotiating position is weakened by taking No Deal off the table. On the basis that the best outcome for Johnsons broad personal popularity (and therefore his colossal ego) would be to deliver a deal thereby pacifying the moderates within both the leave and the remain camps I still hold that hope, however I can't help but think he's little more than a useful idiot in this process as a stooge for the right of the Conservatives looking to both see off the threat of Farage and seize the initiative on a populist and divisive right wing agenda which will damage this country for all but a few for a couple of generations or more. If Brexit happens on 31 October, there will be an election in the spring, maybe earlier. If Brexit turns out to be a disaster, there’s a very good chance Labour will be elected. If it’s a success, the Tories will probably win by a landslide. In either case, the electorate get to choose. Possibly - though I wouldn't bet against an election before 31 October. Spending review has been brought forward, plenty will be promised, 'Boris Bounce' 'Sorry to mess you about Ma'am but the prorogation business has caused a bit of a stir, thought we'd ask your subjects on the matter' Gamble on a majority which under the fixed term will keep them in for 5 years to smooth out the 'bumps in the road'. High stakes but it appears that's what Cummings is about.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 16:07:49 GMT
Well said JC.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 16:13:35 GMT
Perhaps Boris will have to resign now as well at absolute outrage at his own decision?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 16:13:39 GMT
I don't think people are cheering, just pointing out the hypocrisy, labour supporters moaning yet it was Labour that set the precedent of this process in 1948 I think you might be on a sticky wicket with the hypocrisy route, the establishment have just closed off the democratic heart of the country. I wonder what those people would think who fought and died defending the freedoms and liberties of the country being threatened by a small number of elites who think they are more important than our democracy I wonder what those people who fought and died defending our freedoms and liberties would think about the majority of parliament now happy to hand over more and more power to Brussels and effectively been ruled by Germany and France?
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 16:14:54 GMT
That’s clearly JCs main angle of attack just now. It’s a pretty feeble one though. Btw - what is Corbyn’s position on Brexit?
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Aug 28, 2019 16:21:08 GMT
Why is everyone so shit scared of Boris & The Don? There'll be elections on both sides of the Atlantic soon enough, and we've been told over & over again that Jezza is going to win by a landslide & The Don will be off in a jail cell. So are we saying that Labour & the Democrats (Lead by 'The Squad') are still going to fuck us all over, or have we just been talking shit for ages about how Boris & The Don are done for?
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Post by yeokel on Aug 28, 2019 16:22:18 GMT
How long before we get a General on the tele telling us that the coup is complete? You do realise that a coup is an action against a government don't you? A government can't complete a coup against itself. Looking at most of your posts on this thread today, you seem to have an extraordinary lack of grasp of how these things work.
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 28, 2019 16:24:24 GMT
I don't think people are cheering, just pointing out the hypocrisy, labour supporters moaning yet it was Labour that set the precedent of this process in 1948 I think you might be on a sticky wicket with the hypocrisy route, the establishment have just closed off the democratic heart of the country. I wonder what those people would think who fought and died defending the freedoms and liberties of the country being threatened by a small number of elites who think they are more important than our democracy They fought and died for the freedom and liberties of this country They were betrayed the minute we joined the Eu
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 28, 2019 16:24:31 GMT
Don't tell me deep down that none of you don't find setting this precedent very worrying? Now the cat is out of the bag it can be used for anything at any time... be very careful what you cheer for especially with characters like Johnson and any characters that follow You mean like all the shenanigans Bercow and MP's have been pulling off for months, even creating new precedent to try and get their own way, this has not been required to do this and despite all this talk about coups MP's are free at any time to hold a Vote of No Confidence and try and bring the government down pretty certain in actual coups you don't get this as an option.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 28, 2019 16:24:58 GMT
Quite. Seems to me that the Leave side of the debate have lost all arguement that the UK will be in anyway better off any time soon by leaving with even the current governments own assessment of the likely consequences of a No Deal suggesting that Project Fear was anything but. For the Leavers 'leave' has become the be all and end all with the only arguement left standing being that of an extremely narrow referendum result and whilst it is the job of government to respect the mandate it is not their job to do so at any cost. As a remainer, a believer in democracy and a sometime negotiator I respect the referendum, hope for a deal and understand how a negotiating position is weakened by taking No Deal off the table. On the basis that the best outcome for Johnsons broad personal popularity (and therefore his colossal ego) would be to deliver a deal thereby pacifying the moderates within both the leave and the remain camps I still hold that hope, however I can't help but think he's little more than a useful idiot in this process as a stooge for the right of the Conservatives looking to both see off the threat of Farage and seize the initiative on a populist and divisive right wing agenda which will damage this country for all but a few for a couple of generations or more. If Brexit happens on 31 October, there will be an election in the spring, maybe earlier. If Brexit turns out to be a disaster, there’s a very good chance Labour will be elected. If it’s a success, the Tories will probably win by a landslide. In either case, the electorate get to choose. Your time frame for deciding whether Brexit is a success or failure seems too short. On what basis will your judgement be? Economically there is bound to be a very difficult period whilst the economy re-aligns to life outside the EU, but in the long term the country will be better off like Australia, Canada, Switzerland, Singapore, etc. But many of us want to leave the EU because we don't want to be governed from Brussels. We voted to stay in a common market 40 years ago, not ever closer political union. There is no doubt there will a difficult economic situation, but not as bad as the remainers keep warning. We are the 5th biggest economy in the world, millions want to come and live here, we will be much better off in the long term. The EU is fighting hard to keep us in, they need to keep exporting to us and for us to keep paying for Brussels and Strasburg. For example, we are the #1 export country for French champagne, France would stupid to start a trade war. Germany has a €25 billion trade balance with us. Boris wants a trade deal and the only leverage he has with the EU is to say give one or we crash out, which is the last thing the EU wants. The EU are not going to budge an inch as long as they think there is a strong enough lobby in the UK to stop a no deal situation. Boris is increasing the pressure on the EU to do what is best in the whole of Europe's interest.
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Post by thevoid on Aug 28, 2019 16:25:09 GMT
with Boris abuse of his powers as pm and overriding the parliament for his own political gin it is now ore important than ever that we make a stand against this corrupt and unconstitutional government to this end please sign this petition A petition to stop the prorogation of Parliament has gained more than 120,000 signatures. "Parliament must not be prorogued or dissolved unless and until the Article 50 period has been sufficiently extended or the UK's intention to withdraw from the EU has been cancelled," sign it here linkNo I'm just wondering what political gin tastes like. Probably bitter of essex has any say in it 😉
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 16:27:50 GMT
What's been the EU's response to the latest events? There’s panic on the streets of Brussels Dublin, Paris, Strasbourg
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 28, 2019 16:30:47 GMT
That’s clearly JCs main angle of attack just now. It’s a pretty feeble one though. Btw - what is Corbyn’s position on Brexit? He doesn't want a No deal and won't vote for any deal the Tories bring back, he wants to be PM and then negotiate a new deal that he can then put to the people in a referendum where he will campaign against the deal he has just negotiated It sounds like a plot of a lost Yes Prime Minister episode doesnt it.....
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 28, 2019 16:31:47 GMT
I think you might be on a sticky wicket with the hypocrisy route, the establishment have just closed off the democratic heart of the country. I wonder what those people would think who fought and died defending the freedoms and liberties of the country being threatened by a small number of elites who think they are more important than our democracy Noting that Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union ( link), I rather think that those people who fought and died for this country would be quite happy with what has happened today. Correct. 40 years ago I argued vehemently with my father about being in the EEC as it was then. He was totally opposed to giving up sovereignty to the Europe, whilst I believed being in the common market would be good. I was wrong and events of the last 40 years, particularly the last 3, have proven that my father was totally correct, God rest his soul.
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Post by claytonscrubs on Aug 28, 2019 16:34:52 GMT
Kay’s gutted! 😂 Good old Liz I knew she wouldn’t let us down 👍 A good photograph to save for future generations showing the true enemies of the people an democracy Here’s a photograph for you to frame and hang on the wall. True enemies of the people and democracy!!!
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Post by lommack on Aug 28, 2019 16:40:04 GMT
How long before we get a General on the tele telling us that the coup is complete? You do realise that a coup is an action against a government don't you? A government can't complete a coup against itself. Looking at most of your posts on this thread today, you seem to have an extraordinary lack of grasp of how these things work. Oh I don't know closing down the democratically elected heart of government to get what you want might be construed as a coup. Get ready for the medal adorned General Fothering Smythe on the 6 o'clock news telling you that everything is fine nothing to see here. And just how do things work in your fully informed world? Closing debate in the country and telling elected representatives to bugger off is ok is it? The hypocrisy is astounding
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