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Post by lommack on Aug 28, 2019 14:06:40 GMT
Yes but I voted in the general election (as did millions of others) whose elected representatives are now being ignored. Are you saying that some elections are more important than others? I suppose that some elections are more important than others. An election of a milk monitor is less important than that of an MP. Mind you the election of an MEP is a pretty pointless cosmetic exercise to give a semblance of democracy..... not sure how effective or ineffective those elections are...mind you , to answer your question, I didn't say anything about the relative importance of elections. I do think it's important to honour the referendum result though because people were asked the question and promised by the government that their decision would be honoured....basic democracy really. It is as equally important to honour the result of the general election and let parliament be sovereign, not an executive. It doesn't matter whether your mp is is a remoaner, a leaving loony or ambivalent, this is the system of government we have and to bypass it will be gross betrayal to our democracy
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 14:15:42 GMT
I suppose that some elections are more important than others. An election of a milk monitor is less important than that of an MP. Mind you the election of an MEP is a pretty pointless cosmetic exercise to give a semblance of democracy..... not sure how effective or ineffective those elections are...mind you , to answer your question, I didn't say anything about the relative importance of elections. I do think it's important to honour the referendum result though because people were asked the question and promised by the government that their decision would be honoured....basic democracy really. It is as equally important to honour the result of the general election and let parliament be sovereign, not an executive. It doesn't matter whether your mp is is a remoaner, a leaving loony or ambivalent, this is the system of government we have and to bypass it will be gross betrayal to our democracy The parties at the election promised to honour the referendum result. That's important. Boris is trying to do that. The Remainers aren't. He shouldn't have to prorogue parliament in order to keep the promise to the electorate...but as Partick has said, to do so he would be acting within his parliamentary power. Perhaps you are in favour of parliamentary democracy because you can't accept leaving the EU and this has now become the latest way in which Remainers can see of getting their own way... have you considered that?
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Aug 28, 2019 14:20:43 GMT
Is there time to vote the government down, and if so what happens if the parliament is suspended and there is no government in place?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 14:23:04 GMT
It is as equally important to honour the result of the general election and let parliament be sovereign, not an executive. It doesn't matter whether your mp is is a remoaner, a leaving loony or ambivalent, this is the system of government we have and to bypass it will be gross betrayal to our democracy The parties at the election promised to honour the referendum result. That's important. Boris is trying to do that. The Remainers aren't. He shouldn't have to prorogue parliament in order to keep the promise to the electorate...but as Partick has said, to do so he would be acting within his parliamentary power. Perhaps you are in favour of parliamentary democracy because you can't accept leaving the EU and this has now become the latest way in which Remainers can see of getting their own way... have you considered that? Was the referendum result a "No Deal Brexit", BJR? I think my ballot paper was broken.
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Post by John Smiths Upper Fan on Aug 28, 2019 14:23:49 GMT
It's been 3 years of bullshit so far so why not just have a second referendum and find out once and for all what the majority wants. Than have it written up that it will be acted on on a predefined date, no exceptions. A bit like what should have happened the first time we voted to leave? Having another vote is the worst possible thing we can do as far as democracy is concerned.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 28, 2019 14:24:11 GMT
why shouldn't he keep his hand close to his chest. He's playing to win but, it would seem, playing within the rules. Same as his opponents. Your continuing bleating would suggest he's somewhat better at it than his opponents. Although, of course, that remains to be seen. Is it worth reminding you PP that you started this behemoth of a thread with the assertion that there was no mandate for a hard Brexit and now suddenly closing down our democratic organs of state suddenly gives him that mandate? I'm a bit puzzled! Yeah - cracking opening post wasn’t it. And things have largely played out as I said - May, following that GE pursued a soft Brexit but wasn’t able to achieve it. This indeed caused ructions in the Tories and the return of Nige on his new horse which saw the downfall of May and the rise of Boris (that last bit I didn’t of course predict). The net outcome is Parliament has killed a soft Brexit. So where are we now? Seems to me there are now only two options on the table - No Deal Brexit or No Brexit. As this Parliament is charged with delivering Brexit, it seems reasonable to me that it now does that. And the only route to do it, thanks to Parliament’s inability to agree a soft Brexit, is to go down the hard Brexit route. (BTW I should say that the prospect of Brexit with a deal is only possible if No Deal remains on the table, so anyone opposed to No Deal Brexit is effectively saying they are are opposed to Brexit happening period - which is a perfectly respectable viewer rather would be if it was spoken about honestly rather than disingenuously).
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Post by lommack on Aug 28, 2019 14:27:50 GMT
Johnson is keeping the right wing loonies (the ones that put him into power) happy, the irony is if those same right wing loons had voted to leave along with the bible bashers we would have left in March. This is about power, the power to ignore parliament and to leave on their(no deal) terms. They are taking back democracy at the death of democracy, similar to the taking back of power from the establishment by the establishment.
Enemies of the people one and all
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 28, 2019 14:31:08 GMT
The parties at the election promised to honour the referendum result. That's important. Boris is trying to do that. The Remainers aren't. He shouldn't have to prorogue parliament in order to keep the promise to the electorate...but as Partick has said, to do so he would be acting within his parliamentary power. Perhaps you are in favour of parliamentary democracy because you can't accept leaving the EU and this has now become the latest way in which Remainers can see of getting their own way... have you considered that? Was the referendum result a "No Deal Brexit", BJR? I think my ballot paper was broken.[/quote Exactly No mine didn't mention deals Sheikh. Just an in or out question on membership of the EU. Nothing else. Perhaps we all got different ones. Remember this man..... unfortunately he is too working class for some.... perhaps even thick..... (He seems to get it in my opinion though)
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Aug 28, 2019 14:32:50 GMT
The parties at the election promised to honour the referendum result. That's important. Boris is trying to do that. The Remainers aren't. He shouldn't have to prorogue parliament in order to keep the promise to the electorate...but as Partick has said, to do so he would be acting within his parliamentary power. Perhaps you are in favour of parliamentary democracy because you can't accept leaving the EU and this has now become the latest way in which Remainers can see of getting their own way... have you considered that? Was the referendum result a "No Deal Brexit", BJR? I think my ballot paper was broken. The referendum wasn't about deals, it was about leaving. If we could have left with a trade deal, great, if not, oh well, just make sure we leave.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 14:32:54 GMT
Is it worth reminding you PP that you started this behemoth of a thread with the assertion that there was no mandate for a hard Brexit and now suddenly closing down our democratic organs of state suddenly gives him that mandate? I'm a bit puzzled! Yeah - cracking opening post wasn’t it. And things have largely played out as I said - May, following that GE pursued a soft Brexit but wasn’t able to achieve it. This indeed caused ructions in the Tories and the return of Nige on his new horse which saw the downfall of May and the rise of Boris (that last bit I didn’t of course predict). The net outcome is Parliament has killed a soft Brexit. So where are we now? Seems to me there are now only two options on the table - No Deal Brexit or No Brexit. As this Parliament is charged with delivering Brexit, it seems reasonable to me that it now does that. And the only route to do it, thanks to Parliament’s inability to agree a soft Brexit, is to go down the hard Brexit route. (BTW I should say that the prospect of Brexit with a deal is only possible if No Deal remains on the table, so anyone opposed to No Deal Brexit is effectively saying they are are opposed to Brexit happening period - which is a perfectly respectable viewer rather would be if it was spoken about honestly rather than disingenuously). So a Parliament that voted 70%-30% in ruling out No Deal is now being sidelined to pursue a no deal. The default position of this country is that the top hat wearing lunatics in the ERG get what they want over 80% of the population in the last poll on the matter That constitutes democracy in the UK 2019?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 14:37:55 GMT
I expect The Health Secretary will be resigning shortly or is he like the abominable Nicky Morgan, once the snout is in the trough, principles can be left at the door?
Matt Hancock ✔ @matthancock Proroguing Parliament undermines parliamentary democracy and risks a general election. I rule it out and call on all candidates to do the same
Just two short months ago.
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Post by claytonscrubs on Aug 28, 2019 14:41:56 GMT
Kay’s gutted! 😂
Good old Liz I knew she wouldn’t let us down 👍
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Post by numpty40 on Aug 28, 2019 14:44:17 GMT
Yeah - cracking opening post wasn’t it. And things have largely played out as I said - May, following that GE pursued a soft Brexit but wasn’t able to achieve it. This indeed caused ructions in the Tories and the return of Nige on his new horse which saw the downfall of May and the rise of Boris (that last bit I didn’t of course predict). The net outcome is Parliament has killed a soft Brexit. So where are we now? Seems to me there are now only two options on the table - No Deal Brexit or No Brexit. As this Parliament is charged with delivering Brexit, it seems reasonable to me that it now does that. And the only route to do it, thanks to Parliament’s inability to agree a soft Brexit, is to go down the hard Brexit route. (BTW I should say that the prospect of Brexit with a deal is only possible if No Deal remains on the table, so anyone opposed to No Deal Brexit is effectively saying they are are opposed to Brexit happening period - which is a perfectly respectable viewer rather would be if it was spoken about honestly rather than disingenuously). So a Parliament that voted 70%-30% in ruling out No Deal is now being sidelined to pursue a no deal. The default position of this country is that the top hat wearing lunatics in the ERG get what they want over 80% of the population in the last poll on the matter That constitutes democracy in the UK 2019? Let's be honest and stop this fucking bullshit, those 70% aren't opposing No Deal they are opposing Brexit. I'm actually pissing myself listening to the likes is Soubrey and Grieve blubbering because they've been outwitted by this bumbling prime minister. I don't think the country can stomach any more extensions or another referendum. We seem to have stumbled across a prime minister who is prepared to lead and make decisions.
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Post by lommack on Aug 28, 2019 14:46:26 GMT
Kay’s gutted! 😂 Good old Liz I knew she wouldn’t let us down 👍 A good photograph to save for future generations showing the true enemies of the people an democracy
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 28, 2019 14:53:45 GMT
You think Corbyn declaring himself PM is the way to go? Where was the outcry to this crackpot idea? You think Sourbry and co-conspirators, meeting together outside Parliament to go against what Parliament decided is the way to go? If the house democratically votes government down the leader of the opposition becomes PM. A leader who has actually been democratically chosen with a far bigger mandate than any other political leader in this country. Don't like it? Tough shit, that's democracy. Only if they can command a majority If they can not then a general election is called And the present incumbent remains as pm until after the election
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 28, 2019 14:56:06 GMT
.@matthancock Prorouging parliament "goes against everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought and died for".
@amberruddhr "I think it's outrageous to consider proroguing Parliament. We are not Stuart kings."
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Post by serpico on Aug 28, 2019 14:56:52 GMT
So a Parliament that voted 70%-30% in ruling out No Deal is now being sidelined to pursue a no deal. The default position of this country is that the top hat wearing lunatics in the ERG get what they want over 80% of the population in the last poll on the matter That constitutes democracy in the UK 2019? Let's be honest and stop this fucking bullshit, those 70% aren't opposing No Deal they are opposing Brexit. I'm actually pissing myself listening to the likes is Soubrey and Grieve blubbering because they've been outwitted by this bumbling prime minister. I don't think the country can stomach any more extensions or another referendum. We seem to have stumbled across a prime minister who is prepared to lead and make decisions. Many of them wouldn’t even vote for Mays half baked surrender BRINO withdrawal agreement so it’s obvious theyre opposed to brexit in all its forms.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 14:59:32 GMT
.@matthancock Prorouging parliament "goes against everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought and died for". @amberruddhr "I think it's outrageous to consider proroguing Parliament. We are not Stuart kings." Have they resigned yet?
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Post by Northy on Aug 28, 2019 14:59:45 GMT
Businesses were ready in March for a brexit one way or another, they still have these plans in place. My business is not ready because we dont know what to be ready for.We try to be,but we import and export an awful lot of our goods.For the second time in six months we have had to attempt to fill our warehouse which has a severe impact on our business planning. Ours is, we are a £2billion UK company so a lot of planning on lots of different streams. Yesterday I was on a con call to Japan, and involved UK, Nordics, Germany to ensure we have all options in place. Just the Italians missing who are still on their month long shutdown, and they wonder why their economy is up the shitter.
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 28, 2019 14:59:51 GMT
with Boris abuse of his powers as pm and overriding the parliament for his own political gin it is now ore important than ever that we make a stand against this corrupt and unconstitutional government to this end please sign this petition A petition to stop the prorogation of Parliament has gained more than 120,000 signatures. "Parliament must not be prorogued or dissolved unless and until the Article 50 period has been sufficiently extended or the UK's intention to withdraw from the EU has been cancelled," sign it here linkNo
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Post by Northy on Aug 28, 2019 15:01:46 GMT
.@matthancock Prorouging parliament "goes against everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought and died for". @amberruddhr "I think it's outrageous to consider proroguing Parliament. We are not Stuart kings." Have they resigned yet? Probably waiting for Corbyn to go first following his manifesto lie, and his 180' u turn
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 15:03:08 GMT
Kay’s gutted! 😂 Good old Liz I knew she wouldn’t let us down 👍 She wasn't going to say no now was she. However this a pretty big precedent, where the Monarch is used as a pawn to instigate constitutional irregularities. Hopefully it will see the decline of the wankers once and for all.
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 28, 2019 15:10:09 GMT
.@matthancock Prorouging parliament "goes against everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought and died for". @amberruddhr "I think it's outrageous to consider proroguing Parliament. We are not Stuart kings." Have they resigned yet? Of course not. That would require integrity.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 15:10:26 GMT
Probably waiting for Corbyn to go first following his manifesto lie, and his 180' u turn This isn't a broken manifesto promise of which there are hundreds of Tory and Labour examples, these are clear statements by senior Government Ministers that the find the very concept of prorogation as shameful, unconscionable and indefensible. I would expect that if either have them have a shred of self respect or dignity they'll be gone by tonight. Alternatively they will expose themselves for the shameless, snivelling, Tory careerists that they most likely are.
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Post by Northy on Aug 28, 2019 15:19:09 GMT
Kay’s gutted! 😂 Good old Liz I knew she wouldn’t let us down 👍 She wasn't going to say no now was she. However this a pretty big precedent, where the Monarch is used as a pawn to instigate constitutional irregularities. Hopefully it will see the decline of the wankers once and for all. How is it a precedent, Ive already posted a bit back that in answer to Essex that it was labour in 1948 that set the precedent, anybody now attempting to amount a legal challenge will be setting a precedent.. Proroguing is a common thing, prorogation is a prerogative act of the Crown and the Queen accepts the advice of her ministers as to when to prorogue.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 15:23:03 GMT
She wasn't going to say no now was she. However this a pretty big precedent, where the Monarch is used as a pawn to instigate constitutional irregularities. Hopefully it will see the decline of the wankers once and for all. How is it a precedent, Ive already posted a bit back that in answer to Essex that it was labour in 1948 that set the precedent, anybody now attempting to amount a legal challenge will be setting a precedent.. Proroguing is a common thing, prorogation is a prerogative act of the Crown and the Queen accepts the advice of her ministers as to when to prorogue. Oh come on mate, this pretence that this perfectly normal and not to do with Brexit as the Fat Dictator said earlier, shows utter and complete contempt to the people of this country.
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Post by Northy on Aug 28, 2019 15:23:26 GMT
Probably waiting for Corbyn to go first following his manifesto lie, and his 180' u turn This isn't a broken manifesto promise of which there are hundreds of Tory and Labour examples, these are clear statements by senior Government Ministers that the find the very concept of prorogation as shameful, unconscionable and indefensible. I would expect that if either have them have a shred of self respect or dignity they'll be gone by tonight. Alternatively they will expose themselves for the shameless, snivelling, Tory careerists that they most likely are. Come off it, a u turn on the biggest issue since the last labour huge u turn on the Lisbon treaty can't be dismissed lightly, this issue has been at the forefront of our politics for nearly 4 years. Corbyn stated many times live on TV that he would 'honour' the result of the referendum. What's good for the goose is good for the gander unless it is the side you don't like ?
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 28, 2019 15:25:00 GMT
Probably waiting for Corbyn to go first following his manifesto lie, and his 180' u turn This isn't a broken manifesto promise of which there are hundreds of Tory and Labour examples, these are clear statements by senior Government Ministers that the find the very concept of prorogation as shameful, unconscionable and indefensible. I would expect that if either have them have a shred of self respect or dignity they'll be gone by tonight. Alternatively they will expose themselves for the shameless, snivelling, Tory careerists that they most likely are. If you can change your mind on supporting the IRA or the nuclear deterrent I think its possible to change your mind on prorogaing parliament for an extra 3 fucking days. Its interesting though that sometimes the votes of the 172 Labour Mp's are sacroasanct like on no deal but when they vote on who they want as leader of the Labour party not so much......
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 28, 2019 15:28:33 GMT
"Changed their mind"! Fuck me 'them's some forceful words' just 6 weeks ago. If they don't resign they are pathetic jellyfish, to be laughed at and ridiculed. Just the sort of vegetables the Fat Dictator wants at his cabinet table, I suppose.
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Post by lommack on Aug 28, 2019 15:39:06 GMT
Don't tell me deep down that none of you don't find setting this precedent very worrying? Now the cat is out of the bag it can be used for anything at any time... be very careful what you cheer for especially with characters like Johnson and any characters that follow
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