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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 21, 2019 7:47:48 GMT
I remember being told that the Brexit negotiations would be the easiest negotiations in History. I remember being told that the Conservatives were the party of competence in Government I remember being told that the EU "needed us more than we needed them" I remember being told that a 52:48 split would mean this issue would be unresolved I remember us voting to leave the EU on the 29th March 2019 in June 2016 Who set that date, and did they do it before the referendum result?
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Post by lawrieleslie on Mar 21, 2019 8:02:13 GMT
I remember us voting to leave the EU on the 29th March 2019 in June 2016 Who set that date, and did they do it before the referendum result? The date was set when Article 50 was triggered by a letter from our PM delivered to Tusk on 29th March 2017. Just to remind you .......In a leaflet sent out before the referendum, the UK government stated "This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide." Just saying.
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 21, 2019 8:08:10 GMT
I remember us voting to leave the EU on the 29th March 2019 in June 2016 Who set that date, and did they do it before the referendum result? No And it’s eu law So if you disagree with it take it up with you’re MEP whilst you still have one
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 21, 2019 8:12:36 GMT
Who set that date, and did they do it before the referendum result? The date was set when Article 50 was triggered by a letter from our PM delivered to Tusk on 29th March 2017. Just to remind you .......In a leaflet sent out before the referendum, the UK government stated "This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide." Just saying. So after the referendum result.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 21, 2019 8:13:35 GMT
So ( sorry Harry!)..if you voted for Brexit, which I interprete as expressing your view that you would prefer not to be in the EU, you are " our enemy" ... Presumably the EU's enemy....How does that work? It suggests that there is only one possible direction that is unquestionably correct and any different view is not only wrong but should be defeated .... onwards with Ever Closer Union. As stupid as calling anyone who thought we were better off in the EU an 'enemy of the people'.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 8:14:16 GMT
I remember all the polls telling us remain would win in 2016 I remember the times always suggesting the world would end if we voted leave I remember being told that the Brexit negotiations would be the easiest negotiations in History. I remember being told that the Conservatives were the party of competence in Government I remember being told that the EU "needed us more than we needed them" I remember being told that a 52:48 split would mean this issue would be unresolved The only people making it difficult are the enemy within Stop using Tory or Labour.......this is fuck all to do with red or blue bullshit May is a bigger remainer than corbyn If we'd have gone into negotiations as a united kingdom showing a strong will and a pair of bollocks the EU would be the ones infighting Its back scratching politicians in Westminster from all sides that has fucked it up.....and that includes may and corbyn
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 8:18:56 GMT
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Post by 4372 on Mar 21, 2019 8:21:20 GMT
I remember being told that the Brexit negotiations would be the easiest negotiations in History. I remember being told that the Conservatives were the party of competence in Government I remember being told that the EU "needed us more than we needed them" I remember being told that a 52:48 split would mean this issue would be unresolved I remember us voting to leave the EU on the 29th March 2019 in June 2016 I remember that there was no date set for leaving the EU in the June 2016 Referendum.
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Post by 4372 on Mar 21, 2019 8:31:06 GMT
I remember being told that the Brexit negotiations would be the easiest negotiations in History. I remember being told that the Conservatives were the party of competence in Government I remember being told that the EU "needed us more than we needed them" I remember being told that a 52:48 split would mean this issue would be unresolved The only people making it difficult are the enemy within Stop using Tory or Labour.......this is fuck all to do with red or blue bullshit May is a bigger remainer than corbyn If we'd have gone into negotiations as a united kingdom showing a strong will and a pair of bollocks the EU would be the ones infighting Its back scratching politicians in Westminster from all sides that has fucked it up.....and that includes may and corbyn Not really possible to "stop using Tory or Labour" This is first and foremost a Tory issue. The origins of the Referendum lie in the Tory party split. The Conservatives do claim to be the party of competence, and yet never examined the Referendum proposal in detail before submitting it to the people of the UK. The Tory Party is the party in power, and it is their internal split that is largely responsible for the current impasse. The Labour Party is in a mess, but it is not in power. Time and time again Tory leaders, when questioned about Brexit,start to talk about the Labour Party,rather than address issues inside the Tory Party. "The enemy within"....Really????
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Post by lawrieleslie on Mar 21, 2019 8:36:34 GMT
The date was set when Article 50 was triggered by a letter from our PM delivered to Tusk on 29th March 2017. Just to remind you .......In a leaflet sent out before the referendum, the UK government stated "This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide." Just saying. So after the referendum result. Almost certainly because, after the referendum, Cameron resigned saying it was the next PM who would have the job of triggering A50 and taking the country out of the E.U. Of course there could feasibly have been an element of guess work by the Brexit camp in trying to gauge a date for withdrawal before A50 but not sure what advantage there was because of the delay due to the Miller Case. Whatever, it is a complete clusterfuck and May is right in one respect that the country are sick to death of the impasse in parliament. But to blame the MPs is even more divisive possibly putting MPs lives at risk but definitely killing the geese that could lay the golden eggs of votes to get her deal through if she gets the extension. Although this has been put in doubt this morning by French PM. At the moment a no deal exit next Friday looks highly likely unless we get yet another twist in this sorry saga.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 21, 2019 8:44:50 GMT
So after the referendum result. Almost certainly because, after the referendum, Cameron resigned saying it was the next PM who would have the job of triggering A50 and taking the country out of the E.U. Of course there could feasibly have been an element of guess work by the Brexit camp in trying to gauge a date for withdrawal before A50 but not sure what advantage there was because of the delay due to the Miller Case. Whatever, it is a complete clusterfuck and May is right in one respect that the country are sick to death of the impasse in parliament. But to blame the MPs is even more divisive possibly putting MPs lives at risk but definitely killing the geese that could lay the golden eggs of votes to get her deal through if she gets the extension. Although this has been put in doubt this morning by French PM. At the moment a no deal exit next Friday looks highly likely unless we get yet another twist in this sorry saga. Just to be clear, I was making the point that no-one voted to leave the EU on 29th March 2019 - as was claimed on the post that I quoted. The date was never set when we voted. The vast, vast, vast majority of the blame lies with May, in my opinion. The reason the vote hasn't passed is May's fault. The reason we wasted so much time is May's fault. The reason there has been fuck all progression is May's fault. There are a couple of points I'd say MPs have to take the blame: a) They shit out when the motion of no confidence in May was put forward - opting to keep her in place. b) They voted against taking charge of the Brexit process Other than that, and maybe a few other smaller things, this situation is on May's watch and is almost completely her fault.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 21, 2019 8:51:34 GMT
The only people making it difficult are the enemy within Stop using Tory or Labour.......this is fuck all to do with red or blue bullshit May is a bigger remainer than corbyn If we'd have gone into negotiations as a united kingdom showing a strong will and a pair of bollocks the EU would be the ones infighting Its back scratching politicians in Westminster from all sides that has fucked it up.....and that includes may and corbyn Not really possible to "stop using Tory or Labour" This is first and foremost a Tory issue. The origins of the Referendum lie in the Tory party split. The Conservatives do claim to be the party of competence, and yet never examined the Referendum proposal in detail before submitting it to the people of the UK. The Tory Party is the party in power, and it is their internal split that is largely responsible for the current impasse. The Labour Party is in a mess, but it is not in power. Time and time again Tory leaders, when questioned about Brexit,start to talk about the Labour Party,rather than address issues inside the Tory Party. "The enemy within"....Really???? There is a small element of truth in the fact that this issue goes beyond party politics, but I tend to find the "stop using Tory or Labour" brigade are primarily Tory or right-leaning supporters. Quite often it's simply a request to forget who has actually been in charge throughout this massive fuck up. I might try asking people to "stop using Tory or Labour" when talking about immigration, the Iraq war or PFIs.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 21, 2019 9:03:09 GMT
Almost certainly because, after the referendum, Cameron resigned saying it was the next PM who would have the job of triggering A50 and taking the country out of the E.U. Of course there could feasibly have been an element of guess work by the Brexit camp in trying to gauge a date for withdrawal before A50 but not sure what advantage there was because of the delay due to the Miller Case. Whatever, it is a complete clusterfuck and May is right in one respect that the country are sick to death of the impasse in parliament. But to blame the MPs is even more divisive possibly putting MPs lives at risk but definitely killing the geese that could lay the golden eggs of votes to get her deal through if she gets the extension. Although this has been put in doubt this morning by French PM. At the moment a no deal exit next Friday looks highly likely unless we get yet another twist in this sorry saga. Just to be clear, I was making the point that no-one voted to leave the EU on 29th March 2019 - as was claimed on the post that I quoted. The date was never set when we voted. The vast, vast, vast majority of the blame lies with May, in my opinion. The reason the vote hasn't passed is May's fault. The reason we wasted so much time is May's fault. The reason there has been fuck all progression is May's fault. There are a couple of points I'd say MPs have to take the blame: a) They shit out when the motion of no confidence in May was put forward - opting to keep her in place. b) They voted against taking charge of the Brexit process Other than that, and maybe a few other smaller things, this situation is on May's watch and is almost completely her fault. The vote to trigger Article 50 was taken on 1/2/17 and was in favour of commencing the 2 year negotiations by 498 to 114. The SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled. With the mandate given by the House A50 was triggered on 29/3/17 which set the leave date 2 years later. Now, all those that voted for A50, including all but 47 Labour MP's either didn't know what they were voting for or didn't care. This is where the root of today's issue lies.
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Post by raythesailor on Mar 21, 2019 9:10:23 GMT
Everybody blaming Tory/Labour May/Corbin and the poor deal.
It takes two to make a deal .what about pointing a few fingers at the arrogant inflexible Eurocrats who have been allowed to bully and dictate to us for the last 1001 days?
They have obstructed us at every turn . They have refused to discuss trade deals etc until the divorce settlement is agreed.
Had they discussed and agreed them we would be leaving tomorrow night and most people would be happy.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 21, 2019 9:13:15 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 21, 2019 9:15:44 GMT
Everybody blaming Tory/Labour May/Corbin and the poor deal. It takes two to make a deal .what about pointing a few fingers at the arrogant inflexible Eurocrats who have been allowed to bully and dictate to us for the last 1001 days? They have obstructed us at every turn . They have refused to discuss trade deals etc until the divorce settlement is agreed. Had they discussed and agreed them we would be leaving tomorrow night and most people would be happy. Quite correct Ray. From the outset we should have negotiated from the stance of an independent sovereign country and not as a member state frightened to leave, who didn't really want to leave and whose negotiators were in fact not really trying to leave but trying to stay in, make it easier to rejoin in the future or trying to appease a different country ( the EU). As many have said we should have left first and negotiated a deal afterwards ( if the EU would not negotiate a BREXIT in good faith)....two different things.
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Post by salopstick on Mar 21, 2019 9:21:49 GMT
Just to be clear, I was making the point that no-one voted to leave the EU on 29th March 2019 - as was claimed on the post that I quoted. The date was never set when we voted. The vast, vast, vast majority of the blame lies with May, in my opinion. The reason the vote hasn't passed is May's fault. The reason we wasted so much time is May's fault. The reason there has been fuck all progression is May's fault. There are a couple of points I'd say MPs have to take the blame: a) They shit out when the motion of no confidence in May was put forward - opting to keep her in place. b) They voted against taking charge of the Brexit process Other than that, and maybe a few other smaller things, this situation is on May's watch and is almost completely her fault. The vote to trigger Article 50 was taken on 1/2/17 and was in favour of commencing the 2 year negotiations by 498 to 114. The SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled. With the mandate given by the House A50 was triggered on 29/3/17 which set the leave date 2 years later. Now, all those that voted for A50, including all but 47 Labour MP's either didn't know what they were voting for or didn't care. This is where the root of today's issue lies. What they have done is try to stay to their belief in remain but appear to the majority that they will honour the vote What they ALL should have done was say we accept leave and will do everything we can to make it a success The party leaders should have reaffirmed this What he had was a two year bickering row which allowed the EU to present what ever sort of deal they wanted Fucking spineless all of them
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 21, 2019 9:37:16 GMT
Just to be clear, I was making the point that no-one voted to leave the EU on 29th March 2019 - as was claimed on the post that I quoted. The date was never set when we voted. The vast, vast, vast majority of the blame lies with May, in my opinion. The reason the vote hasn't passed is May's fault. The reason we wasted so much time is May's fault. The reason there has been fuck all progression is May's fault. There are a couple of points I'd say MPs have to take the blame: a) They shit out when the motion of no confidence in May was put forward - opting to keep her in place. b) They voted against taking charge of the Brexit process Other than that, and maybe a few other smaller things, this situation is on May's watch and is almost completely her fault. The vote to trigger Article 50 was taken on 1/2/17 and was in favour of commencing the 2 year negotiations by 498 to 114. The SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled. With the mandate given by the House A50 was triggered on 29/3/17 which set the leave date 2 years later. Now, all those that voted for A50, including all but 47 Labour MP's either didn't know what they were voting for or didn't care. This is where the root of today's issue lies. Triggering A50 meant starting the process of leaving the EU. It didn't mean they had to vote in favour of every Brexit decision put before them afterwards. After triggering A50, it was then May's job to negotiate a deal that would pass through the Commons and Lords - in her job she really should be able to know roughly what the Commons and Lords would accept. She has failed to do that, either through blind ignorance or plain stupidity. In terms of deals, the House of Commons has only had chance to vote on one deal (albeit two times) and that is May's deal, which most evidence suggests is deeply unpopular with the public.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 21, 2019 9:44:24 GMT
Everybody blaming Tory/Labour May/Corbin and the poor deal. It takes two to make a deal .what about pointing a few fingers at the arrogant inflexible Eurocrats who have been allowed to bully and dictate to us for the last 1001 days? They have obstructed us at every turn . They have refused to discuss trade deals etc until the divorce settlement is agreed. Had they discussed and agreed them we would be leaving tomorrow night and most people would be happy. The EU have negotiated a deal that is good for their own interests, and we have negotiated slowly and badly. The error the EU made was to believe May's bullshit that the deal would definitely pass - they were naive to believe a politician that is so utterly incompetent. Ultimately if that error means we leave with no deal, it'll be bad for everyone (in my opinion). But from our side, I'm not going to blame the EU for our own failings for the same reason I didn't become pissed off at Seville because we allowed them to buy Nzonzi on the cheap.
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 21, 2019 10:05:27 GMT
Everybody blaming Tory/Labour May/Corbin and the poor deal. It takes two to make a deal .what about pointing a few fingers at the arrogant inflexible Eurocrats who have been allowed to bully and dictate to us for the last 1001 days? They have obstructed us at every turn . They have refused to discuss trade deals etc until the divorce settlement is agreed. Had they discussed and agreed them we would be leaving tomorrow night and most people would be happy. The EU have negotiated a deal that is good for their own interests, and we have negotiated slowly and badly. The error the EU made was to believe May's bullshit that the deal would definitely pass - they were naive to believe a politician that is so utterly incompetent. Ultimately if that error means we leave with no deal, it'll be bad for everyone (in my opinion). But from our side, I'm not going to blame the EU for our own failings for the same reason I didn't become pissed off at Seville because we allowed them to buy Nzonzi on the cheap. If we end up leaving without a deal I shall be praising the Eu As they will have achieved what I wanted from the start And are splneless MPs didn’t have the balls to deliver
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Mar 21, 2019 10:06:44 GMT
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Post by 4372 on Mar 21, 2019 10:20:00 GMT
Everybody blaming Tory/Labour May/Corbin and the poor deal. It takes two to make a deal .what about pointing a few fingers at the arrogant inflexible Eurocrats who have been allowed to bully and dictate to us for the last 1001 days? They have obstructed us at every turn . They have refused to discuss trade deals etc until the divorce settlement is agreed. Had they discussed and agreed them we would be leaving tomorrow night and most people would be happy. # You surprise me.Boris said we could have our cake and eat it.
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Post by 4372 on Mar 21, 2019 10:20:51 GMT
And i speak as someone who loves cake...
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 21, 2019 10:49:06 GMT
The vote to trigger Article 50 was taken on 1/2/17 and was in favour of commencing the 2 year negotiations by 498 to 114. The SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled. With the mandate given by the House A50 was triggered on 29/3/17 which set the leave date 2 years later. Now, all those that voted for A50, including all but 47 Labour MP's either didn't know what they were voting for or didn't care. This is where the root of today's issue lies. Triggering A50 meant starting the process of leaving the EU. It didn't mean they had to vote in favour of every Brexit decision put before them afterwards. After triggering A50, it was then May's job to negotiate a deal that would pass through the Commons and Lords - in her job she really should be able to know roughly what the Commons and Lords would accept. She has failed to do that, either through blind ignorance or plain stupidity. In terms of deals, the House of Commons has only had chance to vote on one deal (albeit two times) and that is May's deal, which most evidence suggests is deeply unpopular with the public. Yet they vote No Deal out, which seems quite popular with the public. Let's not pretend that the public is being factored in.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 21, 2019 11:05:53 GMT
Triggering A50 meant starting the process of leaving the EU. It didn't mean they had to vote in favour of every Brexit decision put before them afterwards. After triggering A50, it was then May's job to negotiate a deal that would pass through the Commons and Lords - in her job she really should be able to know roughly what the Commons and Lords would accept. She has failed to do that, either through blind ignorance or plain stupidity. In terms of deals, the House of Commons has only had chance to vote on one deal (albeit two times) and that is May's deal, which most evidence suggests is deeply unpopular with the public. Yet they vote No Deal out, which seems quite popular with the public. Let's not pretend that the public is being factored in. Fair point. You can take the public part out of my post and the point still remains - the MPs have only had the chance to vote on one deal (twice) and it was a deal that most people (not just the public, but MPs, media, experts etc) think is shit. On the subject of people's opinions, I did a bit of looking on the YouGov site last night to see what polls they have done. Obviously polls don't offer a precise view, but if you combine the results it seems that the public are just as split about what to do from here. Try offering a solution that pleases all the following results (they were taken before the most recent voting down of May's WA, so slightly outdated but you get the meaning): - A majority of people (46% v 33%) do not want no-deal Brexit (rest of the numbers fall under 'Don't know', I assume) - A majority of people (43 v 38) do not want a dealay to Brexit - A majority of people (36 v 32) would reject Theresa's May Brexit deal. So against May's WA, against a delay, but also against no deal.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 21, 2019 11:12:33 GMT
The vote to trigger Article 50 was taken on 1/2/17 and was in favour of commencing the 2 year negotiations by 498 to 114. The SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled. With the mandate given by the House A50 was triggered on 29/3/17 which set the leave date 2 years later. Now, all those that voted for A50, including all but 47 Labour MP's either didn't know what they were voting for or didn't care. This is where the root of today's issue lies. Triggering A50 meant starting the process of leaving the EU. It didn't mean they had to vote in favour of every Brexit decision put before them afterwards. After triggering A50, it was then May's job to negotiate a deal that would pass through the Commons and Lords - in her job she really should be able to know roughly what the Commons and Lords would accept. She has failed to do that, either through blind ignorance or plain stupidity. In terms of deals, the House of Commons has only had chance to vote on one deal (albeit two times) and that is May's deal, which most evidence suggests is deeply unpopular with the public. If you believe the EU, and you evidently do, there is only one deal which they will ratify. The one presented and rejected twice in the House. It's not May's deal in as far it's an isolationist piece of work, it has outline agreement with the EU, subject to ratification by the other 27 member states. As far as other deals, if you recall when Sturgeon went to see the EU negotiators she was sent away as they would only deal with the Head of State (May and her advisers). So, as many monkeys could turn up as you like, but the EU will only deal with one organ grinder. Now, if you are saying May set off down the wrong track in the first place (a Remainer trying to flannel a deal) and it's a bad deal for us, then I would agree. What is failing to be resolved now should have been sorted out before A50 was triggered, but with the exception of the minor parties and 48 Labour MP's they were evidently happy to trigger first and ask questions later.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 21, 2019 11:16:38 GMT
Yet they vote No Deal out, which seems quite popular with the public. Let's not pretend that the public is being factored in. Fair point. You can take the public part out of my post and the point still remains - the MPs have only had the chance to vote on one deal (twice) and it was a deal that most people (not just the public, but MPs, media, experts etc) think is shit. On the subject of people's opinions, I did a bit of looking on the YouGov site last night to see what polls they have done. Obviously polls don't offer a precise view, but if you combine the results it seems that the public are just as split about what to do from here. Try offering a solution that pleases all the following results (they were taken before the most recent voting down of May's WA, so slightly outdated but you get the meaning): - A majority of people (46% v 33%) do not want no-deal Brexit (rest of the numbers fall under 'Don't know', I assume) - A majority of people (43 v 38) do not want a dealay to Brexit - A majority of people (36 v 32) would reject Theresa's May Brexit deal. So against May's WA, against a delay, but also against no deal. How do you see this playing out?
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 21, 2019 11:26:03 GMT
Triggering A50 meant starting the process of leaving the EU. It didn't mean they had to vote in favour of every Brexit decision put before them afterwards. After triggering A50, it was then May's job to negotiate a deal that would pass through the Commons and Lords - in her job she really should be able to know roughly what the Commons and Lords would accept. She has failed to do that, either through blind ignorance or plain stupidity. In terms of deals, the House of Commons has only had chance to vote on one deal (albeit two times) and that is May's deal, which most evidence suggests is deeply unpopular with the public. If you believe the EU, and you evidently do, there is only one deal which they will ratify. The one presented and rejected twice in the House. It's not May's deal in as far it's an isolationist piece of work, it has outline agreement with the EU, subject to ratification by the other 27 member states. As far as other deals, if you recall when Sturgeon went to see the EU negotiators she was sent away as they would only deal with the Head of State (May and her advisers). So, as many monkeys could turn up as you like, but the EU will only deal with one organ grinder. Now, if you are saying May set off down the wrong track in the first place (a Remainer trying to flannel a deal) and it's a bad deal for us, then I would agree. What is failing to be resolved now should have been sorted out before A50 was triggered, but with the exception of the minor parties and 48 Labour MP's they were evidently happy to trigger first and ask questions later. I don't particularly believe the EU - I don't believe what politicians or political organisations say in general unless they've got some evidence to back it up, or if there actions match their words. I've said before (I think on this thread) that clearly parliament should've been involved in the negotiating stages - maybe voting on what the red lines should be, or at the very least keeping the incompetent May in check along the way. Clearly that would've resulted in May bringing back a deal that was more palatable than the current one. In fairness I've said this in hindsight, and I'm not sure it would've been as a big a problem if May had brought back an acceptable deal. I don't think she set off on the wrong track trying to ruin Brexit, in fact all the time-wasting and shite negotiating has brought us closer to the ERG wet dream of a no deal. I've said for quite some time that she is stalling in order to get a no deal Brexit by accident - one she can complain about and blame on the EU, thus ridding herself of all blame (which she's currently trying to do by pushing the blame on MPs). I think we're fairly close to the point where the EU may decide that we leave with no deal, as they're becoming sick and tired of May's constant waiting, and Parliaments refusal to fuck her off - this, in my opinion, has been the desired end game for quite a while now. Should Parliament have refused to trigger A50 without guarantees that they would've had an element of control over the negotiations? Perhaps. Although I don't believe A50 would've even been triggered in that case, which would've 100% killed Brexit (as opposed to the small chance of Brexit not happening that currently exists).
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 21, 2019 11:29:58 GMT
Fair point. You can take the public part out of my post and the point still remains - the MPs have only had the chance to vote on one deal (twice) and it was a deal that most people (not just the public, but MPs, media, experts etc) think is shit. On the subject of people's opinions, I did a bit of looking on the YouGov site last night to see what polls they have done. Obviously polls don't offer a precise view, but if you combine the results it seems that the public are just as split about what to do from here. Try offering a solution that pleases all the following results (they were taken before the most recent voting down of May's WA, so slightly outdated but you get the meaning): - A majority of people (46% v 33%) do not want no-deal Brexit (rest of the numbers fall under 'Don't know', I assume) - A majority of people (43 v 38) do not want a dealay to Brexit - A majority of people (36 v 32) would reject Theresa's May Brexit deal. So against May's WA, against a delay, but also against no deal. How do you see this playing out? One of the following (sorry mate, no chance I can give one answer because it's completely unpredictable): - EU losing patience and declaring that we will leave with no deal - The UK getting a long extension (one or two year) on the premise either having another In/Out referendum or a general election (probably the former). - May's deal passing with a tiny majority. This is probably the unlikeliest of scenarios.
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Post by Davef on Mar 21, 2019 11:33:57 GMT
Everybody blaming Tory/Labour May/Corbin and the poor deal. It takes two to make a deal .what about pointing a few fingers at the arrogant inflexible Eurocrats who have been allowed to bully and dictate to us for the last 1001 days? They have obstructed us at every turn . They have refused to discuss trade deals etc until the divorce settlement is agreed. Had they discussed and agreed them we would be leaving tomorrow night and most people would be happy. Quite correct Ray. From the outset we should have negotiated from the stance of an independent sovereign country and not as a member state frightened to leave, who didn't really want to leave and whose negotiators were in fact not really trying to leave but trying to stay in, make it easier to rejoin in the future or trying to appease a different country ( the EU). As many have said we should have left first and negotiated a deal afterwards ( if the EU would not negotiate a BREXIT in good faith)....two different things. That was never ever an option. Michel Barnier openly stated that trade talks wouldn't begin until we had left the EU. They can't and wouldn't negotiate a trade deal with a member nation. This is basic stuff.
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