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Post by henry on Dec 31, 2018 12:21:56 GMT
We’re the deluded children of the 50’s 60’s 70’s... Nobody on here has the right to bang on about the 1st & 2nd WW I shouldn’t imagine many on here have seen any military action, never mind taken any shots in anger. We simply don’t have the infrastructure to go it alone in the World, we’re not all that 🇬🇧 Thats the spirit
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 31, 2018 12:33:30 GMT
Sighs. We do not currently "take it up the arse by the Germans on a daily basis", and I don't remember hearing anything like that back in 2016 as a reason to leave. But either the wonderful British government is trying to pull a fast one and push through a no-deal BREXIT; or is wasting a lot of money on unnecessary contingencies which could be put to much better and more urgent use than trying to make May's deal (which nobody likes or wants) more palatable, even though this last option will mean less control (they promised Brexit would take back control, remember?), less money (they promised you'd all be better off after BREXIT, remember?), and more money for the NHS in particular (the NHS employees at all levels are crying out about it's current state and how it is getting worse because of Brexit)! Clear and succinct enough for you? 1) I personally did not post the original link to the world wars but I personally think we are getting screwed on a daily basis by the Eu Which despite what we are told is run with German money and control with a touch of French charm to soften the edges 2) I voted leave not to be better off as economic arguments matter not one jot in my reasoning And to assume that people were somehow conned into voting leave exhibits the condenseding attitude that contributed to the leave vote 3) the bus slogan absolute bull shit I don’t know one leave voter that was swayed by it 4) as for more money on the nhs that should be debated on its own thread I voted leave because I want this country to make laws with politicians that I can have a part in removing I want this country to be able to set its own taxation rates including vat We have those two things you mention at the bottom already.
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 31, 2018 12:33:32 GMT
We’re the deluded children of the 50’s 60’s 70’s... Nobody on here has the right to bang on about the 1st & 2nd WW I shouldn’t imagine many on here have seen any military action, never mind taken any shots in anger. We simply don’t have the infrastructure to go it alone in the World, we’re not all that 🇬🇧 Thats the spirit HappyNewYearXx
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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 31, 2018 12:38:43 GMT
1) I personally did not post the original link to the world wars but I personally think we are getting screwed on a daily basis by the Eu Which despite what we are told is run with German money and control with a touch of French charm to soften the edges 2) I voted leave not to be better off as economic arguments matter not one jot in my reasoning And to assume that people were somehow conned into voting leave exhibits the condenseding attitude that contributed to the leave vote 3) the bus slogan absolute bull shit I don’t know one leave voter that was swayed by it 4) as for more money on the nhs that should be debated on its own thread I voted leave because I want this country to make laws with politicians that I can have a part in removing I want this country to be able to set its own taxation rates including vat We have those two things you mention at the bottom already. We're not able to set VAT independently.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 31, 2018 12:41:24 GMT
We have those two things you mention at the bottom already. We're not able to set VAT independently. We are
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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 31, 2018 12:42:55 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 31, 2018 12:50:36 GMT
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Post by maxplonk on Dec 31, 2018 12:56:02 GMT
[/quote]1) I personally did not post the original link to the world wars but I personally think we are getting screwed on a daily basis by the Eu Which despite what we are told is run with German money and control with a touch of French charm to soften the edges 2) I voted leave not to be better off as economic arguments matter not one jot in my reasoning And to assume that people were somehow conned into voting leave exhibits the condenseding attitude that contributed to the leave vote 3) the bus slogan absolute bull shit I don’t know one leave voter that was swayed by it 4) as for more money on the nhs that should be debated on its own thread I voted leave because I want this country to make laws with politicians that I can have a part in removing I want this country to be able to set its own taxation rates including vat [/quote] 1) No you didn't post the link but you did react to it. Nevertheless, your personal views are your own and you are free to entertain them, although others might not share them. But to refer to just one aspect of DE influence in the UK, it will be intresting to see if we are being more or less "screwed" by DE should DE decide to remove Mini production from the UK, post Brexit. 2)Your resons for voting leave are your own and you are entitled to them but others might well include economic factors in their decision-making processes (I'm starting to see a pattern, here). 3) The bus slogan was indeed bullshit but it struck a chord with many in Britain and still does. Perhaps you don't know any leave voter who was swayed by it but I think it's more accurate to say you don't know anyone who admitted to being swayed by it (people will lie to save face, you know). And your circle of friends and contacts probably isn't representative of the whole country. 4) The argument about the money for the NHS is implied by the "bus" argument and should not be dismissed so easily, no matter how convenient that might appear to some. I'm happy that you can have a part in removing politicians, I don't although there decisions affect me greatly! With regard to the question of VAT, surely that will disappear should GB leave the EU and everything will become 20% cheaper in April? I can't help noticing that in your last response you began each sentence by referring to yourself even though the original post wasn't directed at you personally.
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Post by henry on Dec 31, 2018 13:01:08 GMT
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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 31, 2018 13:18:22 GMT
In much the same way as you could have a model T Ford in any colour you wanted.
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 31, 2018 13:25:22 GMT
1) I personally did not post the original link to the world wars but I personally think we are getting screwed on a daily basis by the Eu Which despite what we are told is run with German money and control with a touch of French charm to soften the edges 2) I voted leave not to be better off as economic arguments matter not one jot in my reasoning And to assume that people were somehow conned into voting leave exhibits the condenseding attitude that contributed to the leave vote 3) the bus slogan absolute bull shit I don’t know one leave voter that was swayed by it 4) as for more money on the nhs that should be debated on its own thread I voted leave because I want this country to make laws with politicians that I can have a part in removing I want this country to be able to set its own taxation rates including vat We have those two things you mention at the bottom already. So this country has the right to abolish vat on any goods it chooses to ? If so I stand corrected
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 31, 2018 13:33:03 GMT
1) I personally did not post the original link to the world wars but I personally think we are getting screwed on a daily basis by the Eu Which despite what we are told is run with German money and control with a touch of French charm to soften the edges 2) I voted leave not to be better off as economic arguments matter not one jot in my reasoning And to assume that people were somehow conned into voting leave exhibits the condenseding attitude that contributed to the leave vote 3) the bus slogan absolute bull shit I don’t know one leave voter that was swayed by it 4) as for more money on the nhs that should be debated on its own thread I voted leave because I want this country to make laws with politicians that I can have a part in removing I want this country to be able to set its own taxation rates including vat [/quote] 1) No you didn't post the link but you did react to it. Nevertheless, your personal views are your own and you are free to entertain them, although others might not share them. But to refer to just one aspect of DE influence in the UK, it will be intresting to see if we are being more or less "screwed" by DE should DE decide to remove Mini production from the UK, post Brexit. 2)Your resons for voting leave are your own and you are entitled to them but others might well include economic factors in their decision-making processes (I'm starting to see a pattern, here). 3) The bus slogan was indeed bullshit but it struck a chord with many in Britain and still does. Perhaps you don't know any leave voter who was swayed by it but I think it's more accurate to say you don't know anyone who admitted to being swayed by it (people will lie to save face, you know). And your circle of friends and contacts probably isn't representative of the whole country. 4) The argument about the money for the NHS is implied by the "bus" argument and should not be dismissed so easily, no matter how convenient that might appear to some. I'm happy that you can have a part in removing politicians, I don't although there decisions affect me greatly! With regard to the question of VAT, surely that will disappear should GB leave the EU and everything will become 20% cheaper in April? I can't help noticing that in your last response you began each sentence by referring to yourself even though the original post wasn't directed at you personally.[/quote] I use the term myself quite regularly as I am increasingly frustrated by quite a few remain supporters generalisation of leave voters as a collective group There are many reasons why people voted leave As there are many reasons people voted remain ( note I used the term quite a few remain supporters)
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 31, 2018 14:05:05 GMT
We have those two things you mention at the bottom already. So this country has the right to abolish vat on any goods it chooses to ? If so I stand corrected We set our tax rates. Compare French, German, English and Scottish tax rates. You will see that they are ALL different. VAT has to be charged on certain things but in the grand scheme of things, that’s utterly irrelevant and about as good a reason to leave the EU as blue passports. VAT rates across the EU are different.
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 31, 2018 14:07:13 GMT
We have those two things you mention at the bottom already. We're not able to set VAT independently. So are you saying VAT rates are uniform across the EU!?
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 31, 2018 14:12:47 GMT
So this country has the right to abolish vat on any goods it chooses to ? If so I stand corrected We set our tax rates. Compare French, German, English and Scottish tax rates. You will see that they are ALL different. VAT has to be charged on certain things but in the grand scheme of things, that’s utterly irrelevant and about as good a reason to leave the EU as blue passports. VAT rates across the EU are different. So quite simply the answer is no we can’t set are tax and vat rates In a free independent country vat doesn’t have to be charged at all
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 31, 2018 14:23:55 GMT
So this country has the right to abolish vat on any goods it chooses to ? If so I stand corrected We set our tax rates. Compare French, German, English and Scottish tax rates. You will see that they are ALL different. VAT has to be charged on certain things but in the grand scheme of things, that’s utterly irrelevant and about as good a reason to leave the EU as blue passports. VAT rates across the EU are different. I’m glad paying a extra 20 % on a pair of shoes maybe the odd shirt or two And a bottle of wine or a pint is irrelevant to you Some of us don’t have the disposable income to think likewise
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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 31, 2018 14:35:13 GMT
We're not able to set VAT independently. So are you saying VAT rates are uniform across the EU!? No, I am quite literally saying, "We're not able to set VAT independently"
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Post by starkiller on Dec 31, 2018 14:38:02 GMT
1) I personally did not post the original link to the world wars but I personally think we are getting screwed on a daily basis by the Eu Which despite what we are told is run with German money and control with a touch of French charm to soften the edges 2) I voted leave not to be better off as economic arguments matter not one jot in my reasoning And to assume that people were somehow conned into voting leave exhibits the condenseding attitude that contributed to the leave vote 3) the bus slogan absolute bull shit I don’t know one leave voter that was swayed by it 4) as for more money on the nhs that should be debated on its own thread I voted leave because I want this country to make laws with politicians that I can have a part in removing I want this country to be able to set its own taxation rates including vat 1) No you didn't post the link but you did react to it. Nevertheless, your personal views are your own and you are free to entertain them, although others might not share them. But to refer to just one aspect of DE influence in the UK, it will be intresting to see if we are being more or less "screwed" by DE should DE decide to remove Mini production from the UK, post Brexit. 2)Your resons for voting leave are your own and you are entitled to them but others might well include economic factors in their decision-making processes (I'm starting to see a pattern, here). 3) The bus slogan was indeed bullshit but it struck a chord with many in Britain and still does. Perhaps you don't know any leave voter who was swayed by it but I think it's more accurate to say you don't know anyone who admitted to being swayed by it (people will lie to save face, you know). And your circle of friends and contacts probably isn't representative of the whole country. 4) The argument about the money for the NHS is implied by the "bus" argument and should not be dismissed so easily, no matter how convenient that might appear to some. I'm happy that you can have a part in removing politicians, I don't although there decisions affect me greatly! With regard to the question of VAT, surely that will disappear should GB leave the EU and everything will become 20% cheaper in April? I can't help noticing that in your last response you began each sentence by referring to yourself even though the original post wasn't directed at you personally.[/quote] I use the term myself quite regularly as I am increasingly frustrated by quite a few remain supporters generalisation of leave voters as a collective group There are many reasons why people voted leave As there are many reasons people voted remain ( note I used the term quite a few remain supporters) [/quote] The bus slogan wasn't bullshit. £394 million a week Start 1:30
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 31, 2018 14:41:37 GMT
We have to implement the directives and regulations of the EU. The political EU court is supreme over our court. The purpose of the EU is Political and Economic union. The model is one of an administrative bureacracy with decision making dictated centrally, top down ; dictats governed by Ever Closer Union. The decision makers have not got the interests of the UK uppermost, rather their unchallengeable vision of a United States of Europe. The EU does not have the UK at the heart of its thinking and decision making. The pseudo parliament does not introduce legislation and is not the same as the UK parliament, it us just there as a talking shop and affirming mouthpiece for the project....some EU countries would see this as an improvement on their recent history of war, dictatorship and control by the USSR. ....it does not have/ need to involve the UK. The problems in the East and Southern borders of Europe are not our problems.... I don't trust the EU in respect of involving us. The Euro and Eurogroup are the heart of the EU plan ( 2025 Five presidents report)...we will either have to join eventually or be outsiders and completely shafted and misled.....as we have been since joining the Common Market. Likewise, as the vision is one of a single united bloc across Europe; we will have to accept free movement, no matter how long it takes.
A deal is not the same as Leaving the EU. Australia is not in the EU and is doing ok. The people of the UK will never relate to Brussels as its capital......mind you there is growing opposition across Europe as well.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 31, 2018 15:18:07 GMT
For me the Brexit question has been one of the best things to have happened politically in my lifetime. It has always been a concern that 30 to 40 per cent of the electorate don't bother to vote. There might be many reasons for this , but the basic root cause is that those people who don't vote don't see the point in doing so. ...or they would have. The simple question of whether as a country we wanted to Remain in the EU or Leave resonated with more people in our history to result in the biggest turn out in our history. On the day of the vote every single person who voted did so knowing what they were voting for and believing that their vote would count. To say otherwise is disrespectful , arrogant and derisory towards each and every voter. Their vote and their reasons for making their decision are as valid as yours , no matter what you think..... they could say the same about your decision . The ballot box and a belief in the political system is the basis of our democracy. Not to honour the result is to undermine the very system. All the talk about illegality, advisory, not knowing what we voted for , mind changing... etc etc are simply attempts to undermine the result and none of those issues were brought up before the Referendum. If any election had been scrutinised as much as this, and if there had been such a delay in implementing the result those accusations could be made of any election. Most importantly it is the only election in which the usual loyalty lines have not only been blurred but have been rearranged. This hasn't been left v right, Conservative v Labour but largely the " usually disenfranchised and working class" against " the system". The basic reason that there hss been so much confusion and deliberately created chaos is because those tasked with delivering the result don't want to do so and are in cahoots with the EU in not wanting us to leave. The powerful against the powerless. Unfortunately threat and fear of economic catastrophe, in working class terms " losing your job", is the only weapon that those who intend on undermining Democracy have and since they control the information, the institutions and the media they have the means to constantly and persistently undermine the vote. For me it is classic Marxism, a parallel being controlling the means of production and the instruments of the state. I think that Marx was right in his interpretation of society, the exploiters and the exploited , not necessarily so good in being pragmatic and astute in appealing to reason and the middle ground, instead of resorting to revolution....his vocabulary puts many people off , who don't consider themselves to be the extreme.( In other words his Socialist vision/ the socialist vision of many socialists as portrayed in the press is not the answer) The next 88 days to " Brexit" are vital for the future of the country. I still think that it could go either way. I think that those who think that they are on the left are the most guilty of misleading and betraying the working class, playing into the hands of the political elite, the political class and our rulers who are found in the Labour party, the Conservative party, the LibDems and the EU parliament. If our Democracy is undermined the working class are the ones who will suffer and if their vote is ignored they will certainly feel undermined and they will be right. The promises made to them by the Government before the Referendum were absolutely clear. All the discussion since has been generated and perpetuated by those who want to renege on that promise....and thereby betraying the working class. It's now about Democracy and the Political system of the UK...... people are not stupid and if the vote is not honoured( irrespective if YOUR inability to accept the result for WHATEVER Your reasons ) then the system is going to be held in contempt. What the consequences of that are. ....who knows?)
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Post by stokie66 on Dec 31, 2018 15:45:28 GMT
This article, from a source I don't usually agree with, does offer an interesting insight into the possible reasons behind the Leave vote. I am a Remainer but I can understand that because of historical factors our relationship with mainland Europe differs from that between other member states. Perhaps we do have a greater affinity with the USA than Europe although for me personally that is certainly not the case. One of the reasons for me voting Remain was my fear that a UK outside the EU would become drawn more and more under the influence of the US. Whether or not this happens we will have to wait and see. One of of my favourite commentators on the Brexit situation is Fintan O'Toole who offers an Irish perspective on our predicament. Look at this interview in which he discusses Brexit in general but also focuses on the notion of English rather than British nationalism and the part it played in the Leave vote.
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Post by lordb on Dec 31, 2018 15:48:17 GMT
We have to implement the directives and regulations of the EU. The political EU court is supreme over our court. The purpose of the EU is Political and Economic union. The model is one of an administrative bureacracy with decision making dictated centrally, top down ; dictats governed by Ever Closer Union. The decision makers have not got the interests of the UK uppermost, rather their unchallengeable vision of a United States of Europe. The EU does not have the UK at the heart of its thinking and decision making. The pseudo parliament does not introduce legislation and is not the same as the UK parliament, it us just there as a talking shop and affirming mouthpiece for the project....some EU countries would see this as an improvement on their recent history of war, dictatorship and control by the USSR. ....it does not have/ need to involve the UK. The problems in the East and Southern borders of Europe are not our problems.... I don't trust the EU in respect of involving us. The Euro and Eurogroup are the heart of the EU plan ( 2025 Five presidents report)...we will either have to join eventually or be outsiders and completely shafted and misled.....as we have been since joining the Common Market. Likewise, as the vision is one of a single united bloc across Europe; we will have to accept free movement, no matter how long it takes. A deal is not the same as Leaving the EU. Australia is not in the EU and is doing ok. The people of the UK will never relate to Brussels as its capital......mind you there is growing opposition across Europe as well. Australian views on Brexit was,and is, incredulity at the vote to leave.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 31, 2018 16:21:02 GMT
We have to implement the directives and regulations of the EU. The political EU court is supreme over our court. The purpose of the EU is Political and Economic union. The model is one of an administrative bureacracy with decision making dictated centrally, top down ; dictats governed by Ever Closer Union. The decision makers have not got the interests of the UK uppermost, rather their unchallengeable vision of a United States of Europe. The EU does not have the UK at the heart of its thinking and decision making. The pseudo parliament does not introduce legislation and is not the same as the UK parliament, it us just there as a talking shop and affirming mouthpiece for the project....some EU countries would see this as an improvement on their recent history of war, dictatorship and control by the USSR. ....it does not have/ need to involve the UK. The problems in the East and Southern borders of Europe are not our problems.... I don't trust the EU in respect of involving us. The Euro and Eurogroup are the heart of the EU plan ( 2025 Five presidents report)...we will either have to join eventually or be outsiders and completely shafted and misled.....as we have been since joining the Common Market. Likewise, as the vision is one of a single united bloc across Europe; we will have to accept free movement, no matter how long it takes. A deal is not the same as Leaving the EU. Australia is not in the EU and is doing ok. The people of the UK will never relate to Brussels as its capital......mind you there is growing opposition across Europe as well. Australian views on Brexit was,and is, incredulity at the vote to leave. Is that the whole of Australia? I think that you will find that there are many different views about BREXIT. I think it is true to say that Australia is a free independent Sovereign country that trades ( even with the EU) and does not enjoy Free movement with New Zealand nor is it subservient to New Zealand's court. I don't think that they would stand for that. www.express.co.uk/news/uk/717898/Tony-Abbott-backs-brexit-former-australia-pm
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 31, 2018 16:47:14 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 31, 2018 16:51:32 GMT
Some good advice from Tony Abbott.....who, at the time, thought that the UK should stay in the EU. It is long.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 31, 2018 17:09:47 GMT
Huddy The document is dead right, which is why Brexiteers can't support it. It is a betrayal of the Referendum result , designed to keep the UK in the EU and to make our rejoining easier five years down the line, the argument being that as we are, as close as matters, " IN " , we may as well really join....and just like the traitorous May and many of our other pro EU politicians they will fully support rejoining.... when the Referendum has been forgotten. My reading of your link is saying that May's deal is BRINO , I agree with it. A premature Happy New Year!
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 31, 2018 17:14:03 GMT
Huddy The document is dead right, which is why Brexiteers can't support it. It is a betrayal of the Referendum result , designed to keep the UK in the EU and to make our rejoining easier five years down the line, the argument being that as we are, as close as matters, " IN " , we may as well really join....and just like the traitorous May and many of our other pro EU politicians they will fully support rejoining.... when the Referendum has been forgotten. My reading of your link is saying that May's deal is BRINO , I agree with it. A premature Happy New Year! Remainers clearly can't either! HNY BJR!
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 31, 2018 17:24:12 GMT
Huddy The document is dead right, which is why Brexiteers can't support it. It is a betrayal of the Referendum result , designed to keep the UK in the EU and to make our rejoining easier five years down the line, the argument being that as we are, as close as matters, " IN " , we may as well really join....and just like the traitorous May and many of our other pro EU politicians they will fully support rejoining.... when the Referendum has been forgotten. My reading of your link is saying that May's deal is BRINO , I agree with it. A premature Happy New Year! Remainers clearly can't either! HNY BJR! True For me ( and I know that there are other opinions)...…as it was an in or out vote ( a decision) any attempt at compromise will fail...and even though May tries to sell her plan as compromise it in fact is not... best description I've heard is "Remain minus". For me May's deal is not even a deal...it is saying " let's stay in and keep negotiating". .....if part of the argument is " business needs certainty" ( which for me is not actually the main criteria) then the best certainty is ( new jargon).. " managed WTO... that in my opinion is the closest to bringing closure ( which certainly a referendum or election would not do). In any case May's deal is an attempt at just that...a" deal"....the Referendum was about Remaining in or Leaving the EU... Irrespective of any deal
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Post by harryburrows on Dec 31, 2018 17:41:18 GMT
So this country has the right to abolish vat on any goods it chooses to ? If so I stand corrected We set our tax rates. Compare French, German, English and Scottish tax rates. You will see that they are ALL different. VAT has to be charged on certain things but in the grand scheme of things, that’s utterly irrelevant and about as good a reason to leave the EU as blue passports. VAT rates across the EU are different. Paying VAT on your energy bills or your wife's sanitary products may be irrelevant to you but it is a mandatory Tax as instructed by the EU and affects the very poorest in our communities
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Post by 4372 on Dec 31, 2018 18:30:21 GMT
For me the Brexit question has been one of the best things to have happened politically in my lifetime. It has always been a concern that 30 to 40 per cent of the electorate don't bother to vote. There might be many reasons for this , but the basic root cause is that those people who don't vote don't see the point in doing so. ...or they would have. The simple question of whether as a country we wanted to Remain in the EU or Leave resonated with more people in our history to result in the biggest turn out in our history. On the day of the vote every single person who voted did so knowing what they were voting for and believing that their vote would count. To say otherwise is disrespectful , arrogant and derisory towards each and every voter. Their vote and their reasons for making their decision are as valid as yours , no matter what you think..... they could say the same about your decision . The ballot box and a belief in the political system is the basis of our democracy. Not to honour the result is to undermine the very system. All the talk about illegality, advisory, not knowing what we voted for , mind changing... etc etc are simply attempts to undermine the result and none of those issues were brought up before the Referendum. If any election had been scrutinised as much as this, and if there had been such a delay in implementing the result those accusations could be made of any election. Most importantly it is the only election in which the usual loyalty lines have not only been blurred but have been rearranged. This hasn't been left v right, Conservative v Labour but largely the " usually disenfranchised and working class" against " the system". The basic reason that there hss been so much confusion and deliberately created chaos is because those tasked with delivering the result don't want to do so and are in cahoots with the EU in not wanting us to leave. The powerful against the powerless. Unfortunately threat and fear of economic catastrophe, in working class terms " losing your job", is the only weapon that those who intend on undermining Democracy have and since they control the information, the institutions and the media they have the means to constantly and persistently undermine the vote. For me it is classic Marxism, a parallel being controlling the means of production and the instruments of the state. I think that Marx was right in his interpretation of society, the exploiters and the exploited , not necessarily so good in being pragmatic and astute in appealing to reason and the middle ground, instead of resorting to revolution....his vocabulary puts many people off , who don't consider themselves to be the extreme.( In other words his Socialist vision/ the socialist vision of many socialists as portrayed in the press is not the answer) The next 88 days to " Brexit" are vital for the future of the country. I still think that it could go either way. I think that those who think that they are on the left are the most guilty of misleading and betraying the working class, playing into the hands of the political elite, the political class and our rulers who are found in the Labour party, the Conservative party, the LibDems and the EU parliament. If our Democracy is undermined the working class are the ones who will suffer and if their vote is ignored they will certainly feel undermined and they will be right. The promises made to them by the Government before the Referendum were absolutely clear. All the discussion since has been generated and perpetuated by those who want to renege on that promise....and thereby betraying the working class. It's now about Democracy and the Political system of the UK...... people are not stupid and if the vote is not honoured( irrespective if YOUR inability to accept the result for WHATEVER Your reasons ) tgen the system is going to be held in contempt. What tge consequences of that are. ....who knows?) All is forgiven. Can you please go back to your copy and paste routine.
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