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Post by shangamuzo on Jun 12, 2017 9:10:18 GMT
48% voted remain, I bet most of us would take a soft brexit deal. There's no way all who voted leave want a hard brexit either, so soft is fair. Both phrases introduced after the referendum result. Out means fucking out. I'd like to know who coined those phrases, somebody in the Lib-Dems probably. Soft brexit means continued free movement and I for one am totally opposed to that. So were the Labour voters who defected to UKIP then switched back when they saw the latest Labour party manifesto under Corbyn. Labour played a much smarter game than the Tories during the election campaign. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 9:29:15 GMT
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Post by Gods on Jun 12, 2017 9:30:20 GMT
That's what Michael Heseltine is suggesting we ask for isn't it. It would almost certainly be the best solution for the country as a whole given where we are and of course if the other EU members would buy it. I certainly wouldn't if I were them but they might just do it for a quiet life. Trouble is you'd have Farrage hopping up and down again like a demented baboon so its probably not possible at the moment. If the economy continues to degrade as it is you could maybe just about get away with in a year or two's time as the public mood changes but not quite yet. It may be too late by then of course. We've certainly shot ourselves in the foot with brexit, it going to hurt, for decades. PS Just seen Tuppence's thread, there he goes already! |
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Post by yeokel on Jun 12, 2017 9:40:39 GMT
That's what Michael Heseltine is suggesting we ask for isn't it. It would almost certainly be the best solution for the country as a whole given where we are and of course if the other EU members would buy it. I certainly wouldn't if I were them but they might just do it for a quiet life. Trouble is you'd have Farrage hopping up and down again like a demented baboon so its probably not possible at the moment. If the economy continues to degrade as it is you could maybe just about get away with in a year or two's time as the public mood changes but not quite yet. It may be too late by then of course. We've certainly shot ourselves in the foot with brexit, it going to hurt, for decades. PS Just seen Tuppence's thread, there he goes already! There seems to be a lot of "certainly" in your post which actually only contains your personal opinions. As far as I can see, the only certainty is that this is all going to take a long time. Those of us who voted 'leave' are likely to feel shafted at the end of the process, in my opinion, but that is merely conjecture at the moment, not a certainty. |
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Post by Northy on Jun 12, 2017 9:41:02 GMT
What Cameron asked for to stop a referendum wasn't it, and the EU told him to do one? |
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Post by Gods on Jun 12, 2017 9:48:24 GMT
What Cameron asked for to stop a referendum wasn't it, and the EU told him to do one? Yes, its exactly that as Michael Heseltine said yesterday but he thought it was worth a try. Remaining in the 'European Family' he called it, if not the full EU. I suppose the difference now from then is that they know we will really leave this time, last time there was simply the threat of a referendum which could have gone either way. I honestly don't think they'd buy it but I suppose there is no harm in asking. I suppose the EU is a bit like a golf club. A membership fee with some nice benefits and some serious responsibilities. They are not really in the business of creating bespoke packages. Not for a member for whom they had done it before but continues to have a a long history of belly-aching about the place. I think they will just tell us to piss off as quick as possible in the end and we will depart considerably poorer with a firm foot up our jacksy! |
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Post by Biblical on Jun 12, 2017 10:09:39 GMT
So Theresa May wanted an election because she felt that having a majority of 17 wasn't enough to secure a good deal with the EU. She wanted a bigger majority to strengthen her hand.
What sort of position do we find ourselves in now that that majority has been wiped out? It doesn't look good does it. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 10:15:13 GMT
So Theresa May wanted an election because she felt that having a majority of 17 wasn't enough to secure a good deal with the EU. She wanted a bigger majority to strengthen her hand.
What sort of position do we find ourselves in now that that majority has been wiped out? It doesn't look good does it. A severely weakened one thanks to Corbyn's Magic Money Tree. And that's weakened for everyone in the UK starting a week today. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 10:19:01 GMT
Anything heseltine says wants jetwashing down the shitter
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 10:19:30 GMT
What Cameron asked for to stop a referendum wasn't it, and the EU told him to do one? Yes, its exactly that as Michael Heseltine said yesterday but he thought it was worth a try. Remaining in the 'European Family' he called it, if not the full EU. I suppose the difference now from then is that they know we will really leave this time, last time there was simply the threat of a referendum which could have gone either way. I honestly don't think they'd buy it but I suppose there is no harm in asking. I suppose the EU is a bit like a golf club. A membership fee with some nice benefits and some serious responsibilities. They are not really in the business of creating bespoke packages. Not for a member for whom they had done it before but continues to have a a long history of belly-aching about the place. I think they will just tell us to piss off as quick as possible in the end and we will depart considerably poorer with a firm foot up our jacksy! Heseltine called Brexit a "cancer". "Worth a try"? Cameron did try, and was not supported by any other leader at the time, and the EU gave us fuck all. I think there is harm in asking. You don't think Drunk Junck wouldn't start a 'grovelling UK' story in the EU papers. I do. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 10:20:12 GMT
So Theresa May wanted an election because she felt that having a majority of 17 wasn't enough to secure a good deal with the EU. She wanted a bigger majority to strengthen her hand.
What sort of position do we find ourselves in now that that majority has been wiped out? It doesn't look good does it. No |
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Post by Biblical on Jun 12, 2017 10:23:30 GMT
So Theresa May wanted an election because she felt that having a majority of 17 wasn't enough to secure a good deal with the EU. She wanted a bigger majority to strengthen her hand.
What sort of position do we find ourselves in now that that majority has been wiped out? It doesn't look good does it. A severely weakened one thanks to Corbyn's Magic Money Tree. And that's weakened for everyone in the UK starting a week today. I didn't see the result coming myself and it's clearly easy to say with hindsight but what a disastrous decision it was to call the election. It's not really that much of a surprise that Labour came up with the policies that they did is it? |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 10:25:19 GMT
The Conservative party called the referendum and split the country, devalued the pound, caused inflation to rise all for the internal infightingt they were desperate to address.
The Conservative party promised to pull us out of the single market and customs union then called a general election and now we have a piss weak minority government in a coalition of chaos with terrorist linked DUP.
Meanwhile the EU is pissing itself laughing.
Let's never forget who caused this mess in our country.
Let noone think they have the country's interests at heart. Its all about them and their desire for power, always is.
Anyone who still thinks the Tory party is the best choice for the country is laughably deluded and blind to reality.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 10:28:12 GMT
So Theresa May wanted an election because she felt that having a majority of 17 wasn't enough to secure a good deal with the EU. She wanted a bigger majority to strengthen her hand.
What sort of position do we find ourselves in now that that majority has been wiped out? It doesn't look good does it. A severely weakened one thanks to Corbyn's Magic Money Tree. And that's weakened for everyone in the UK starting a week today. You have to laugh at Tory supporters - its always someone else's fault  Who called the referendum? Who called the election? |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 12, 2017 10:39:03 GMT
So Theresa May wanted an election because she felt that having a majority of 17 wasn't enough to secure a good deal with the EU. She wanted a bigger majority to strengthen her hand.
What sort of position do we find ourselves in now that that majority has been wiped out? It doesn't look good does it. A severely weakened one thanks to Corbyn's Magic Money Tree. And that's weakened for everyone in the UK starting a week today. Yeah like Corbyn forced her to call the election. Jesus. |
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Post by Skankmonkey on Jun 12, 2017 10:42:00 GMT
It affects Brexit in practical terms. All else is positioning and bluster As a nation we will now go into the negotiations in a piss weak position with a laughing stock, lame duck leader. It is unnecessary and it is entirely the fault of an arrogant, complacent, self-serving and incompetent Tory Party, yet again putting Party interests before those of the Country by calling an opportunistic election. Let the scales start to drop from your eyes now and consider Larry, Curly and Moe at the Brexit Ministry in the cold light of today. An intellectual lightweight, a buffoon and a swivel-eyed idealogue. Does anyone seriously have confidence in these comedians? REALLY ?????? And the alternative is equally laughable. ....we might as well send in Mary, Mungo and Midge. With respect, tricky, if it is the same Mary, Mungo and Midge that were responsible for the impressive Labour election campaign - maybe we should  They appear to be remarkably competent in comparison. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 10:50:10 GMT
Err..... or maybe not..... |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 10:52:17 GMT
A severely weakened one thanks to Corbyn's Magic Money Tree. And that's weakened for everyone in the UK starting a week today. You have to laugh at Tory supporters - its always someone else's fault Who called the referendum? Who called the election? And won 'em both  |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 10:55:01 GMT
A severely weakened one thanks to Corbyn's Magic Money Tree. And that's weakened for everyone in the UK starting a week today. Yeah like Corbyn forced her to call the election. Jesus. Roger's a clown isn't he! Can't accept the absence of a 100 seat majority obviously. Understandable, if embarrassing. He's clearly a fan of Wilders in Holland and Le Pen in France, presumably because wins for them would've weakened the EU. Unfortunately for Bodge both had their arses handed to them and the EU is stronger than ever. At home, the Tories fucked it up completely all by themselves, consumer spending falls for the first time in four years, business confidence plummets - all as a result of Tory decisions, which everyone can see. The telegraph is talking of recession, meanwhile the Eurozone forges on. But don't worry, brexiteers, its all just scaremongering, Project Fear and all that lol |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 10:56:02 GMT
You have to laugh at Tory supporters - its always someone else's fault Who called the referendum? Who called the election? And won 'em both How did the Tories win the referendum?! And losing a majority counts as a win does it |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 10:59:36 GMT
A severely weakened one thanks to Corbyn's Magic Money Tree. And that's weakened for everyone in the UK starting a week today. Yeah like Corbyn forced her to call the election. Jesus. No but Starmer and Thornberry and Miller and Juncker and Barnier's 100 billion were all parts of the drip drip of resistance that she wanted to be stronger against. But well down mate we'll all get shafted by the EU now thanks to people being daft enough to think Corbyn could have delivered on even half of his bullshit. No tuition fees? so where was the 10 billion coming from starting this September 4 extra bank holidays? So where was the extra 10 billion lost to the economy coming from? Nothing from the either manifesto is remotely deliverable before we know the Brexit deal. |
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Post by Gods on Jun 12, 2017 11:00:02 GMT
Yes, its exactly that as Michael Heseltine said yesterday but he thought it was worth a try. Remaining in the 'European Family' he called it, if not the full EU. I suppose the difference now from then is that they know we will really leave this time, last time there was simply the threat of a referendum which could have gone either way. I honestly don't think they'd buy it but I suppose there is no harm in asking. I suppose the EU is a bit like a golf club. A membership fee with some nice benefits and some serious responsibilities. They are not really in the business of creating bespoke packages. Not for a member for whom they had done it before but continues to have a a long history of belly-aching about the place. I think they will just tell us to piss off as quick as possible in the end and we will depart considerably poorer with a firm foot up our jacksy! Heseltine called Brexit a "cancer". "Worth a try"? Cameron did try, and was not supported by any other leader at the time, and the EU gave us fuck all. I think there is harm in asking. You don't think Drunk Junck wouldn't start a 'grovelling UK' story in the EU papers. I do. Yes Heseltine has stuck with the principles he believed in before the referendum rather than flip-flopping like the PM and others. As for Mr Juncker I appreciate he makes a nice bogey man for the media and the little Englander's in UKIP to attack, but at the end of the day he's an administrator, he has no power at all, he will do what the elected representatives like Merkel and Macron tell him to do. They are a much harder to try to bully and ridicule though so they get left alone. It's very poor really. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 11:02:48 GMT
Anyone claiming that the results of this GE are a sign that there is no mandate for hard-brexit are full of shit. We were explicitly told by Cameron that a vote to leave would be a vote to leave the single-market, which is the definition of a hard-brexit. The fact that labour did quite well isn't people turning on brexit, it's people turning on the tories. There are surely good numbers of left-wingers who want a hard-brexit and will have voted for labour.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 11:04:53 GMT
And won 'em both How did the Tories win the referendum?! And losing a majority counts as a win does it Because I know leaving the EU is best for the country so that's a win and losing a majority is still an win when the nearest party are 55 seats behind even after the biggest surge since the war. |
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Post by Gods on Jun 12, 2017 11:05:12 GMT
Yeah like Corbyn forced her to call the election. Jesus. Roger's a clown isn't he! Can't accept the absence of a 100 seat majority obviously. Understandable, if embarrassing. He's clearly a fan of Wilders in Holland and Le Pen in France, presumably because wins for them would've weakened the EU. Unfortunately for Bodge both had their arses handed to them and the EU is stronger than ever. At home, the Tories fucked it up completely all by themselves, consumer spending falls for the first time in four years, business confidence plummets - all as a result of Tory decisions, which everyone can see. The telegraph is talking of recession, meanwhile the Eurozone forges on. But don't worry, brexiteers, its all just scaremongering, Project Fear and all that lol This is the problem which won't go away. The economy is going down hill faster than a greased pig and when that happens it's no secret it will hit the low income/no income people hardest, exactly the people who voted Brexit. Try as I might I don't see any happy ending unless someone can find the 'stop' button. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 11:05:43 GMT
Yeah like Corbyn forced her to call the election. Jesus. No but Starmer and Thornberry and Miller and Juncker and Barnier's 100 billion were all parts of the drip drip of resistance that she wanted to be stronger against. But well down mate we'll all get shafted by the EU now thanks to people being daft enough to think Corbyn could have delivered on even half of his bullshit. No tuition fees? so where was the 10 billion coming from starting this September 4 extra bank holidays? So where was the extra 10 billion lost to the economy coming from? Nothing from the either manifesto is remotely deliverable before we know the Brexit deal. All this shit has been caused by one party - the Conservatives. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 11:08:11 GMT
Heseltine called Brexit a "cancer". "Worth a try"? Cameron did try, and was not supported by any other leader at the time, and the EU gave us fuck all. I think there is harm in asking. You don't think Drunk Junck wouldn't start a 'grovelling UK' story in the EU papers. I do. Yes Heseltine has stuck with the principles he believed in before the referendum rather than flip-flopping like the PM and others. As for Mr Juncker I appreciate he makes a nice bogey man for the media and the little Englander's in UKIP to attack, but at the end of the day he's an administrator, he has no power at all, he will do what the elected representatives like Merkel and Macron tell him to do. They are a much harder to try to bully and ridicule though so they get left alone. It's very poor really. So "sticking to principles" is your way of saying not accepting the referendum result, campaigning to water Brexit down and ultimately remain. Righto. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 11:08:24 GMT
How did the Tories win the referendum?! And losing a majority counts as a win does it Because I know leaving the EU is best for the country so that's a win and losing a majority is still an win when the nearest party are 55 seats behind even after the biggest surge since the war. Strange that business disagrees with you entirely. You'd think a Tory would get that lo! Looking forward to Stoke claiming all three points next season whenever the opposition scores more goals under Roger rules  |
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Post by Gods on Jun 12, 2017 11:14:58 GMT
Yes Heseltine has stuck with the principles he believed in before the referendum rather than flip-flopping like the PM and others. As for Mr Juncker I appreciate he makes a nice bogey man for the media and the little Englander's in UKIP to attack, but at the end of the day he's an administrator, he has no power at all, he will do what the elected representatives like Merkel and Macron tell him to do. They are a much harder to try to bully and ridicule though so they get left alone. It's very poor really. So "sticking to principles" is your way of saying not accepting the referendum result, campaigning to water Brexit down and ultimately remain. Righto. Yes exactly that. As he pointed out to the interviewer who tried to make the same point yesterday several times during his political career Labour won elections, you might call it a referendum result. He didn't just shrug his shoulders and say 'oh well, those socialists were right after all' he continued to argue the case for the Conservatives and I expect you did too. Why would anyone stop making their argument if you believe in it enough just because others disagree? |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 11:18:31 GMT
Roger's a clown isn't he! Can't accept the absence of a 100 seat majority obviously. Understandable, if embarrassing. He's clearly a fan of Wilders in Holland and Le Pen in France, presumably because wins for them would've weakened the EU. Unfortunately for Bodge both had their arses handed to them and the EU is stronger than ever. At home, the Tories fucked it up completely all by themselves, consumer spending falls for the first time in four years, business confidence plummets - all as a result of Tory decisions, which everyone can see. The telegraph is talking of recession, meanwhile the Eurozone forges on. But don't worry, brexiteers, its all just scaremongering, Project Fear and all that lol This is the problem which won't go away. The economy is going down hill faster than a greased pig and when that happens it's no secret it will hit the low income/no income people hardest, exactly the people who voted Brexit. Try as I might I don't see any happy ending unless someone can find the 'stop' button. Never fear the Tories won the referendum apparently, so all's well |
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They appear to be remarkably competent in comparison.
