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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 12, 2017 11:20:05 GMT
Yeah like Corbyn forced her to call the election. Jesus. No but Starmer and Thornberry and Miller and Juncker and Barnier's 100 billion were all parts of the drip drip of resistance that she wanted to be stronger against. But well down mate we'll all get shafted by the EU now thanks to people being daft enough to think Corbyn could have delivered on even half of his bullshit. No tuition fees? so where was the 10 billion coming from starting this September 4 extra bank holidays? So where was the extra 10 billion lost to the economy coming from? Nothing from the either manifesto is remotely deliverable before we know the Brexit deal.
Those "daft people" are the very same daft people who got Brexit over the line.
You didn't think they were daft when they were voting 'leave' did you?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 11:27:34 GMT
No, especially when they were voting for the Conservatives to win the referendum lol
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 11:35:26 GMT
No but Starmer and Thornberry and Miller and Juncker and Barnier's 100 billion were all parts of the drip drip of resistance that she wanted to be stronger against. But well down mate we'll all get shafted by the EU now thanks to people being daft enough to think Corbyn could have delivered on even half of his bullshit. No tuition fees? so where was the 10 billion coming from starting this September 4 extra bank holidays? So where was the extra 10 billion lost to the economy coming from? Nothing from the either manifesto is remotely deliverable before we know the Brexit deal.
Those "daft people" are the very same daft people who got Brexit over the line.
You didn't think they were daft when they were voting 'leave' did you?
Some......but wasn't it mainly due to the students voting en masse for the first time ever due to the huge bribe dangled under their noses? Theyll learn |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 11:39:03 GMT
Because I know leaving the EU is best for the country so that's a win and losing a majority is still an win when the nearest party are 55 seats behind even after the biggest surge since the war.  Strange that business disagrees with you entirely. You'd think a Tory would get that lo! Looking forward to Stoke claiming all three points next season whenever the opposition scores more goals under Roger rules  So come on then Einstein how did Labour win the general election? |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 12, 2017 11:39:41 GMT
Those "daft people" are the very same daft people who got Brexit over the line.
You didn't think they were daft when they were voting 'leave' did you?
Some......but wasn't it mainly due to the students voting en masse for the first time ever due to the huge bribe dangled under their noses? Theyll learn
May gambled that (many of) the traditional labour voters who had voted for Brexit (as well as the majority of the UKIP vote) would switch to Tory at the election for the 'good' of Brexit.
She completely and totally got it wrong, if she hadn't have believed that they would switch, then she would never have called the election in the first place.
The mess we now find ourselves in has been completely and totally caused by the Tories.
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Post by Skankmonkey on Jun 12, 2017 11:41:34 GMT
It affects Brexit in practical terms. All else is positioning and bluster As a nation we will now go into the negotiations in a piss weak position with a laughing stock, lame duck leader. It is unnecessary and it is entirely the fault of an arrogant, complacent, self-serving and incompetent Tory Party, yet again putting Party interests before those of the Country by calling an opportunistic election. Let the scales start to drop from your eyes now and consider Larry, Curly and Moe at the Brexit Ministry in the cold light of today. An intellectual lightweight, a buffoon and a swivel-eyed idealogue. Does anyone seriously have confidence in these comedians? REALLY ?????? Gina Miller, Keir Starmer's 137 urgent questions, SNP blocking any Brexit legislation, 114 MP's voting against A50, The Lords rejecting the initial act, Juncker shit stirring to the German press, Barnier plucking a 100 billion Euro 'divorce' bill out of the air, Clegg and Mandelson, Blair reappearing, the Lib Dems writing a second EU ref into their manifesto etc, etc. Ever since the referendum result there has been nothing but many, many groups both in the UK and the EU trying to disrupt and stop Brexit. Maybe just maybe, if those in this country had really, genuinely, actually accepted the vote and backed the UK, May wouldn't have felt the need to call this election to strengthen her hand. Wudda, Cudda, Shudda rog. 
You are a rational chap mate, and I look forward to the day when the penny finally drops and you start to point the finger at the real villains of the piece - the unscrupulous, self serving and irresponsible politicians who managed to convince a significant proportion of an otherwise sensible and well meaning population that Brexit would be easily and painlessly achieved, and would lead to a wonderful land of milk and honey for all.
The pragmatists amongst us  realised this was unlikely to be the case and that the checks and balances built into the democratic system in this country would make the process long, drawn out, economically damaging and the result ultimately very disappointing - particularly for it's proponents.
As I said at the time "Expectations have been raised that CANNOT be fulfilled by our system". Cameron's ill-considered advisory referendum short circuited the democratic process in this country. We live in a parliamentary democracy and there was not a parliamentary majority in favour of Brexit. There still isn't a parliamentary majority honestly in favour of Brexit - predominately we have a set of remainers forced to act against their judgement in trying to carry out the popular will. For that reason alone, never mind the foolishness of Theresa May, the resulting Brexit is guaranteed to prove sub-optimal.
If you want an example of how to sensibly effect change in a democratic society just look at Macron's La République en Marche. A popular movement built from nothing in next to no time, is about to achieve an unassailable majority in the French Parliament and with it a legitimate and PRACTICAL mandate for their change programme If supporters of Leaving the EU had followed a similar parliamentary path in this country we would not be in the mess we are now and the implementation of Brexit would be relatively painless.
As it is, Brexit is going to happen but it won't truly please anybody, it will prove a bitter disappointment for most and, economically, it will be grim for many people. 
POPULISM = FAILURE. Learn the lessons of history.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 11:46:33 GMT
So "sticking to principles" is your way of saying not accepting the referendum result, campaigning to water Brexit down and ultimately remain. Righto. Yes exactly that. As he pointed out to the interviewer who tried to make the same point yesterday several times during his political career Labour won elections, you might call it a referendum result. He didn't just shrug his shoulders and say 'oh well, those socialists were right after all' he continued to argue the case for the Conservatives and I expect you did too. Why would anyone stop making their argument if you believe in it enough just because others disagree? Terrible analogy. The referendum isn't on a 4 yearly cycle. It was understood by all sides it was supposed to be a once in a lifetime vote. Until bad losers start using democracy as an excuse to ignore democracy. Why don't those, including you, have the balls to just start a "We don't accept the referendum decision Party" and have done with all of this bullshit and deflection. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 11:46:41 GMT
Those "daft people" are the very same daft people who got Brexit over the line.
You didn't think they were daft when they were voting 'leave' did you?
Some......but wasn't it mainly due to the students voting en masse for the first time ever due to the huge bribe dangled under their noses? Theyll learn Sadly, it'll probably take all those poor working class people who voted for Brexit in droves to suffer at the hands of a failing economy to do the same. They'll slowly start to change their minds when the shit really starts to hit the fan. Remember, nothing has actually happened yet and consumer spending (which the economy relies on completely) has collapsed for the first time in four years. What happens when we actually leave the single market, the Eurozone steams ahead and we get left behind? I think the mood might change quite rapidly. Probably not on here, noone ever admits to that on here! But here is irrelevant. Shame that these people will suffer, but let noone be in doubt the Tories caused it. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 11:48:06 GMT
Strange that business disagrees with you entirely. You'd think a Tory would get that lo! Looking forward to Stoke claiming all three points next season whenever the opposition scores more goals under Roger rules So come on then Einstein how did Labour win the general election? Grow up, you clown, noone said they did. Just that your lot fucked it up big style! |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 11:51:59 GMT
No but Starmer and Thornberry and Miller and Juncker and Barnier's 100 billion were all parts of the drip drip of resistance that she wanted to be stronger against. But well down mate we'll all get shafted by the EU now thanks to people being daft enough to think Corbyn could have delivered on even half of his bullshit. No tuition fees? so where was the 10 billion coming from starting this September 4 extra bank holidays? So where was the extra 10 billion lost to the economy coming from? Nothing from the either manifesto is remotely deliverable before we know the Brexit deal.
Those "daft people" are the very same daft people who got Brexit over the line.
You didn't think they were daft when they were voting 'leave' did you?
So how come Momo was telling us that 60% of Labour voters voted Remain? You just couldn't put the party differences to one side until we got through Brexit. Daft. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 11:59:42 GMT
Some......but wasn't it mainly due to the students voting en masse for the first time ever due to the huge bribe dangled under their noses? Theyll learn
May gambled that (many of) the traditional labour voters who had voted for Brexit (as well as the majority of the UKIP vote) would switch to Tory at the election for the 'good' of Brexit.
She completely and totally got it wrong, if she hadn't have believed that they would switch, then she would never have called the election in the first place.
The mess we now find ourselves in has been completely and totally caused by the Tories.
I think she is guilty of coming across as plastic, same old Westminster elite that we are all sick of.
Also, how could a governing party compete when all those free money bribes were offered to all age groups
question....seeing as corbyn lost with all those bribes, how many more freebe's on top of that lot will corbyn have to offer next G election to actually win it? |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 12, 2017 12:03:23 GMT
The laughing stock of Europe
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 12, 2017 12:05:41 GMT
Those "daft people" are the very same daft people who got Brexit over the line.
You didn't think they were daft when they were voting 'leave' did you?
So how come Momo was telling us that 60% of Labour voters voted Remain? You just couldn't put the party differences to one side until we got through Brexit. Daft. Are you for real? So now you can't vote Labour AND vote Brexit? It's exactly this sort of Tory arrogance that has got us into this mess. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 12:11:46 GMT
So come on then Einstein how did Labour win the general election? Grow up, you clown, noone said they did. Just that your lot fucked it up big style! Your arguments are weaker than your bullshit statements. Which is saying something. You came out with some nonsense goals analogy and "how is losing a majority winning" cobblers. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 12:12:13 GMT
May gambled that (many of) the traditional labour voters who had voted for Brexit (as well as the majority of the UKIP vote) would switch to Tory at the election for the 'good' of Brexit.
She completely and totally got it wrong, if she hadn't have believed that they would switch, then she would never have called the election in the first place.
The mess we now find ourselves in has been completely and totally caused by the Tories.
I think she is guilty of coming across as plastic, same old Westminster elite that we are all sick of.
Also, how could a governing party compete when all those free money bribes were offered to all age groups
question....seeing as corbyn lost with all those bribes, how many more freebe's on top of that lot will corbyn have to offer next G election to actually win it? Answer - who knows? If he offers hope over the misery of endless cuts to public services and misery maybe people will accept borrowing g to fund it? After all, apparently 13 million Tory voters are quite happy to accept more borrowing as a result of delaying the eradication of the deficit from 2015 (pffft!) to 2025 (never gonna happen) and to fund the growing debt and interest payments and to fund the multi billion pound car crash that Brexit is going to cause. The Tory and Brexiteer magic money tree is just as big and leafy. The fruit of Corbyn's is hope, the fruit of the other is self inflicted misery. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 12:14:00 GMT
Grow up, you clown, noone said they did. Just that your lot fucked it up big style! Your arguments are weaker than your bullshit statements. Which is saying something. You came out with some nonsense goals analogy and "how is losing a majority winning" cobblers. Oh dear, its getting a bit desperate. Go on tell us again how the Tories won the referendum lol And how losing a majority is winning! |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 12:14:43 GMT
So how come Momo was telling us that 60% of Labour voters voted Remain? You just couldn't put the party differences to one side until we got through Brexit. Daft. Are you for real? So now you can't vote Labour AND vote Brexit? It's exactly this sort of Tory arrogance that has got us into this mess. Well no apparently when Labour's Shadow Secretary of State for International Trade Barry Gardiner said this morning that he's be looking for "reformed membership". Anyway, we'll see how much Brexit you get for your Labour vote. Bookmark this post. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 12:18:36 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 12, 2017 12:20:32 GMT
Are you for real? So now you can't vote Labour AND vote Brexit? It's exactly this sort of Tory arrogance that has got us into this mess. Well no apparently when Labour's Shadow Secretary of State for International Trade Barry Gardiner said this morning that he's be looking for "reformed membership". Anyway, we'll see how much Brexit you get for your Labour vote. Bookmark this post. The point is, that if the Tories hadn't been so arrogant to take it for granted that many of the Labour (and UKIP) voters who voted for Brexit would then in turn vote for them in a GE, then they wouldn't have called the election in the first place. It was a massive mistake to do so, a mistake of their OWN making. And we're all going to suffer because of that mistake. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 12:23:18 GMT
Gina Miller, Keir Starmer's 137 urgent questions, SNP blocking any Brexit legislation, 114 MP's voting against A50, The Lords rejecting the initial act, Juncker shit stirring to the German press, Barnier plucking a 100 billion Euro 'divorce' bill out of the air, Clegg and Mandelson, Blair reappearing, the Lib Dems writing a second EU ref into their manifesto etc, etc. Ever since the referendum result there has been nothing but many, many groups both in the UK and the EU trying to disrupt and stop Brexit. Maybe just maybe, if those in this country had really, genuinely, actually accepted the vote and backed the UK, May wouldn't have felt the need to call this election to strengthen her hand. Wudda, Cudda, Shudda rog.
You are a rational chap mate, and I look forward to the day when the penny finally drops and you start to point the finger at the real villains of the piece - the unscrupulous, self serving and irresponsible politicians who managed to convince a significant proportion of an otherwise sensible and well meaning population that Brexit would be easily and painlessly achieved, and would lead to a wonderful land of milk and honey for all.
The pragmatists amongst us realised this was unlikely to be the case and that the checks and balances built into the democratic system in this country would make the process long, drawn out, economically damaging and the result ultimately very disappointing - particularly for it's proponents.
As I said at the time "Expectations have been raised that CANNOT be fulfilled by our system". Cameron's ill-considered advisory referendum short circuited the democratic process in this country. We live in a parliamentary democracy and there was not a parliamentary majority in favour of Brexit. There still isn't a parliamentary majority honestly in favour of Brexit - predominately we have a set of remainers forced to act against their judgement in trying to carry out the popular will. For that reason alone, never mind the foolishness of Theresa May, the resulting Brexit is guaranteed to prove sub-optimal.
If you want an example of how to sensibly effect change in a democratic society just look at Macron's La République en Marche. A popular movement built from nothing in next to no time, is about to achieve an unassailable majority in the French Parliament and with it a legitimate and PRACTICAL mandate for their change programme If supporters of Leaving the EU had followed a similar parliamentary path in this country we would not be in the mess we are now and the implementation of Brexit would be relatively painless.
As it is, Brexit is going to happen but it won't truly please anybody, it will prove a bitter disappointment for most and, economically, it will be grim for many people.
POPULISM = FAILURE. Learn the lessons of history.
Great post, accurate and eloquent |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 12, 2017 12:28:10 GMT
Said it before and I'll say it again...
2016 will come to be seen as the Year of Stupid in the UK (and the US).
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 12, 2017 12:29:34 GMT
Yeah fancy Corbyn calling this needless election and then having the temerity to fight it with policies and that....
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jun 12, 2017 12:36:57 GMT
Yeah fancy Corbyn calling this needless election and then having the temerity to fight it with policies and that.... ..... which he can't pay for. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 12, 2017 12:43:04 GMT
Yeah fancy Corbyn calling this needless election and then having the temerity to fight it with policies and that.... ..... which he can't pay for. Perhaps if there was a mechanism for the Prime Minister to discuss with him whether or not this was the case, you know something like a television debate? |
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Post by Gods on Jun 12, 2017 12:44:04 GMT
Yes exactly that. As he pointed out to the interviewer who tried to make the same point yesterday several times during his political career Labour won elections, you might call it a referendum result. He didn't just shrug his shoulders and say 'oh well, those socialists were right after all' he continued to argue the case for the Conservatives and I expect you did too. Why would anyone stop making their argument if you believe in it enough just because others disagree? Terrible analogy. The referendum isn't on a 4 yearly cycle. It was understood by all sides it was supposed to be a once in a lifetime vote. Until bad losers start using democracy as an excuse to ignore democracy. Why don't those, including you, have the balls to just start a "We don't accept the referendum decision Party" and have done with all of this bullshit and deflection. Well I can only tell you I haven't signed up to a 'lifetime' of this purgatory however good Nigel Farage and the other fruit loops in UKIP think it will be for me. |
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Post by Gods on Jun 12, 2017 13:03:53 GMT
Gina Miller, Keir Starmer's 137 urgent questions, SNP blocking any Brexit legislation, 114 MP's voting against A50, The Lords rejecting the initial act, Juncker shit stirring to the German press, Barnier plucking a 100 billion Euro 'divorce' bill out of the air, Clegg and Mandelson, Blair reappearing, the Lib Dems writing a second EU ref into their manifesto etc, etc. Ever since the referendum result there has been nothing but many, many groups both in the UK and the EU trying to disrupt and stop Brexit. Maybe just maybe, if those in this country had really, genuinely, actually accepted the vote and backed the UK, May wouldn't have felt the need to call this election to strengthen her hand. Wudda, Cudda, Shudda rog.
You are a rational chap mate, and I look forward to the day when the penny finally drops and you start to point the finger at the real villains of the piece - the unscrupulous, self serving and irresponsible politicians who managed to convince a significant proportion of an otherwise sensible and well meaning population that Brexit would be easily and painlessly achieved, and would lead to a wonderful land of milk and honey for all.
The pragmatists amongst us realised this was unlikely to be the case and that the checks and balances built into the democratic system in this country would make the process long, drawn out, economically damaging and the result ultimately very disappointing - particularly for it's proponents.
As I said at the time "Expectations have been raised that CANNOT be fulfilled by our system". Cameron's ill-considered advisory referendum short circuited the democratic process in this country. We live in a parliamentary democracy and there was not a parliamentary majority in favour of Brexit. There still isn't a parliamentary majority honestly in favour of Brexit - predominately we have a set of remainers forced to act against their judgement in trying to carry out the popular will. For that reason alone, never mind the foolishness of Theresa May, the resulting Brexit is guaranteed to prove sub-optimal.
If you want an example of how to sensibly effect change in a democratic society just look at Macron's La République en Marche. A popular movement built from nothing in next to no time, is about to achieve an unassailable majority in the French Parliament and with it a legitimate and PRACTICAL mandate for their change programme If supporters of Leaving the EU had followed a similar parliamentary path in this country we would not be in the mess we are now and the implementation of Brexit would be relatively painless.
As it is, Brexit is going to happen but it won't truly please anybody, it will prove a bitter disappointment for most and, economically, it will be grim for many people.
POPULISM = FAILURE. Learn the lessons of history.
Excellent post. That summarises perfectly how we got here and try as I might I can't see any happy ending. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 12, 2017 13:20:05 GMT
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jun 12, 2017 13:30:08 GMT
Ergo they're 'sensible creationists'??? |
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Post by crapslinger on Jun 12, 2017 13:46:57 GMT
Grow up, you clown, noone said they did. Just that your lot fucked it up big style! Your arguments are weaker than your bullshit statements. Which is saying something. You came out with some nonsense goals analogy and "how is losing a majority winning" cobblers. Losing is the new winning if you are a Labour supporter  |
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Post by capto on Jun 12, 2017 13:52:01 GMT
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realised this was unlikely to be the case and that the checks and balances built into the democratic system in this country would make the process long, drawn out, economically damaging and the result ultimately very disappointing - particularly for it's proponents. 
