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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 14, 2018 14:52:50 GMT
Of course they'd get behind Brexit then. You only have to read the posts on this forum to see for yourself that if you scratch even slightly beneath the surface hardly any of the Remainers are against Brexit really, they're just full of hatred for the Tories & can't seperate Brexit/Tory, so they view being pro-Brexit as being pro-Tory, and because they're very much anti-Tory they have to, by default, be anti-Brexit. If Jezza/Labour threw their full weight behind Brexit (Like they should have done from the get go) suddenly the bell would finally ding for a lot of these people & they'd realise that being pro-Brexit does not mean you have to be pro-Tory at all & they'd fully support the idea. (A lot of people realised this from the off, hence massively pro-Labour areas like Stoke also being massive pro-Brexit. Unfortunately the Elite-types who write for the Guardian managed to convince their readership as this meant you were a thicko racist that didn't know what you were voting for.) Here's what labour will be thinking... (or what I'd be thinking if I was a strategist in labour HQ) They will back Brexit - but not the Brexit deal Theresa may has negotiated. They will look to vote down the Brexit bill in parliament and force a general election. They will hope (with good cause) that the civil war in the Tory will put enough voters off voting Conservative meaning they, effectively, win by default. It's a useful reminder of an old election mantra: Opposition parties don't win elections, Governments lose them BTW, in this (highly likely) scenario a second referendum is much higher. Something the Tory Hard Brexiteers may like to consider. Meaning, what is on the table now is as good as it's likely to get. There is zero causation between May's Brexit deal being voted down and a general election but that aside, you conveniently forgot to mention what Labour's Brexit Plan would be once they come to power?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 14, 2018 15:04:03 GMT
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 14, 2018 15:07:59 GMT
Here's what labour will be thinking... (or what I'd be thinking if I was a strategist in labour HQ) They will back Brexit - but not the Brexit deal Theresa may has negotiated. They will look to vote down the Brexit bill in parliament and force a general election. They will hope (with good cause) that the civil war in the Tory will put enough voters off voting Conservative meaning they, effectively, win by default. It's a useful reminder of an old election mantra: Opposition parties don't win elections, Governments lose them BTW, in this (highly likely) scenario a second referendum is much higher. Something the Tory Hard Brexiteers may like to consider. Meaning, what is on the table now is as good as it's likely to get. There is zero causation between May's Brexit deal being voted down and a general election but that aside, you conveniently forgot to mention what Labour's Brexit Plan would be once they come to power? Remain, and reform, is John McDonnell's preference, or it was. Didn't Labour promise to honour the result, though? The Daily Politics played a clip of their changing stance on various aspects of Brexit ; it was hilarious to see various front benchers contradict themselves.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 14, 2018 15:09:16 GMT
"Betty, I'm being masticated!".
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 14, 2018 15:20:57 GMT
Here's what labour will be thinking... (or what I'd be thinking if I was a strategist in labour HQ) They will back Brexit - but not the Brexit deal Theresa may has negotiated. They will look to vote down the Brexit bill in parliament and force a general election. They will hope (with good cause) that the civil war in the Tory will put enough voters off voting Conservative meaning they, effectively, win by default. It's a useful reminder of an old election mantra: Opposition parties don't win elections, Governments lose them BTW, in this (highly likely) scenario a second referendum is much higher. Something the Tory Hard Brexiteers may like to consider. Meaning, what is on the table now is as good as it's likely to get. There is zero causation between May's Brexit deal being voted down and a general election but that aside, you conveniently forgot to mention what Labour's Brexit Plan would be once they come to power? It really doesn't matter (from the perspective of how they will fight a general election) what it is other than them saying it will be better than what Theresa May has been able to produce.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 15:24:05 GMT
For all you sad Brexiteers who want to live in the past like fossils.....take a look above at the all new, forward thinking man of Britain ....the future's bright (((Gulp)))
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 14, 2018 15:29:11 GMT
There is zero causation between May's Brexit deal being voted down and a general election but that aside, you conveniently forgot to mention what Labour's Brexit Plan would be once they come to power? It really doesn't matter (from the perspective of how they will fight a general election) what it is other than them saying it will be better than what Theresa May has been able to produce. So just say anything to get into power and then deal with it afterwards? That's exactly what Labour are doing now Given that the majority of Labour seats voted Leave and Article 50 and March 29th doesn't stop for general elections don't you think you should really have a plan? Hang on! Maybe you do work for Labour HQ
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 14, 2018 15:34:24 GMT
An interesting article re: Whitehall. For those of you who think MP's run the country. Think again. Amazing documents from 1971, hidden from the public, describing how sovereignty will be lost to Brussels. Long in the planning – Whitehall’s anti-Brexit coup
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 14, 2018 15:57:26 GMT
It really doesn't matter (from the perspective of how they will fight a general election) what it is other than them saying it will be better than what Theresa May has been able to produce. So just say anything to get into power and then deal with it afterwards? That's exactly what Labour are doing now Given that the majority of Labour seats voted Leave and Article 50 and March 29th doesn't stop for general elections don't you think you should really have a plan? Hang on! Maybe you do work for Labour HQ I think they should have a plan - I don't think they need one! Don't believe that? Try this quote from Robin Cook when he was health secretary under Tony Blair (and he was not untypical) "Over 70% of the electorate approve of my health policy and I haven't got one. When and if that figure falls I'll get one". Welcome to the real world of politics! Where they are all as bad as each other. Except Jeremy Corbyn of course - he is a lot worse. Beyond the pale you might say (except that might incite allegations of antisemitism.)
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Post by Northy on Nov 14, 2018 16:13:08 GMT
Penny Mordaunt and Esther McVey resigning today apparently. Esther is my MP who is a brexiteer
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Post by Northy on Nov 14, 2018 16:17:08 GMT
Time for a conviction politician to step forward. Are there any left? Jefferey Archer is still knocking about - he's a convicted politician. he's just a baron now, why get the hassle of being a politician when you can be on the gravy train without the hassle.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 14, 2018 16:48:42 GMT
A little glimpse at the EU side.
The 'temporary' customs arrangement that we can leave anytime is actually designed to be forever the basis of our future relationship.
Accepting EU environmental policy until 2030 and that level playing field means we accept the EU's direction on how we can set our tax levels.
No wonder Olly Robbins was up until 2am.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 14, 2018 17:02:24 GMT
People's Vote gathering momentum, I see. Exactly as predicted. You've been duped. And no bus was required.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 14, 2018 17:10:12 GMT
Just heard for the umpteenth time that a no deal is indisputably catastrophic. Is it really? I mean isn't it at least debatable?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 14, 2018 17:16:46 GMT
Blair's been in town today. He actually said this.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 14, 2018 17:29:29 GMT
Blair's been in town today. He actually said this. And people are happy with this? Butt fucked by the EU, and loving it? Backing the likes of Blair and Campbell, and going against left wing Labour tradition? I notice it went quiet on here when I asked what Labour voters would do if Corbyn had the balls to stand by his principles, but this is beyond party politics ; this is treachery. Etc
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 14, 2018 17:29:33 GMT
Just heard for the umpteenth time that a no deal is indisputably catastrophic. Is it really? I mean isn't it at least debatable? My thoughts too. What parts are the really bad bits that offset the fact we can tell Europe to just fuck off. I always thought leaving would cost money and there would be some pain, but it’s like the Government have gone out of their way to make it as worse as possible and have our noses rubbed in it by Europe. Where’s the pride and guts this country once had? Oh, yes, it was washed away by those who tell us it’s evil and wrong to have these characteristics. Just think the country is too far gone to ever recover and this is the greatest opportunity spectacularly missed by those politicians who have deceived the majority in a vote.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 14, 2018 17:35:19 GMT
Just heard for the umpteenth time that a no deal is indisputably catastrophic. Is it really? I mean isn't it at least debatable? My thoughts too. What parts are the really bad bits that offset the fact we can tell Europe to just fuck off. I always thought leaving would cost money and there would be some pain, but it’s like the Government have gone out of their way to make it as worse as possible and have our noses rubbed in it by Europe. Where’s the pride and guts this country once had? Oh, yes, it was washed away by those who tell us it’s evil and wrong to have these characteristics. Just think the country is too far gone to ever recover and this is the greatest opportunity spectacularly missed by those politicians who have deceived the majority in a vote. I don't think for a minute that it couldn't be done,if all the parties got behind it. But when 80% of MPs didn’t want Brexit in the first place, what do you expect? How do you fight for something you don't believe in?
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 14, 2018 17:36:38 GMT
People's Vote gathering momentum, I see. Exactly as predicted. You've been duped. And no bus was required. A second vote with EU pushing for an army and closer ties they should be careful of what they wish for lol The EU are shouting this is a big win for them but unless I am missing something we appear to retain all the access we previously had and don't have to pay a bean for it anymore and this is the worst deal ever supposedly , I suspect the truth is somewhere in between despite what Faisal and all will say.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 14, 2018 17:42:07 GMT
People's Vote gathering momentum, I see. Exactly as predicted. You've been duped. And no bus was required. A second vote with EU pushing for an army and closer ties they should be careful of what they wish for lol The EU are shouting this is a big win for them but unless I am missing something we appear to retain all the access we previously had and don't have to pay a bean for it anymore and this is the worst deal ever supposedly , I suspect the truth is somewhere in between despite what Faisal and all will say. I think a second referendum is the worst possible outcome. Imagine the fucking smugness in the media and on here?
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 14, 2018 17:59:18 GMT
A second vote with EU pushing for an army and closer ties they should be careful of what they wish for lol The EU are shouting this is a big win for them but unless I am missing something we appear to retain all the access we previously had and don't have to pay a bean for it anymore and this is the worst deal ever supposedly , I suspect the truth is somewhere in between despite what Faisal and all will say. I think a second referendum is the worst possible outcome. Imagine the fucking smugness in the media and on here? That would last until the first set of polling numbers came out, vote to remain and for an EU army etc good luck with trying to sell that that pretty much anyway in the uk......
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Post by boothenboy75 on Nov 14, 2018 18:02:52 GMT
I remember Cameron lying that he would campaign to vote out if the EU didn't give him a meaningful deal. Much like May said she'd prefer no deal than a bad one. A pair of lying twats.
Is there anybody left who thinks this is anything but a bad deal?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 14, 2018 18:22:40 GMT
So just say anything to get into power and then deal with it afterwards? That's exactly what Labour are doing now Given that the majority of Labour seats voted Leave and Article 50 and March 29th doesn't stop for general elections don't you think you should really have a plan? Hang on! Maybe you do work for Labour HQ I think they should have a plan - I don't think they need one! Don't believe that? Try this quote from Robin Cook when he was health secretary under Tony Blair (and he was not untypical) "Over 70% of the electorate approve of my health policy and I haven't got one. When and if that figure falls I'll get one". Welcome to the real world of politics! Where they are all as bad as each other. Except Jeremy Corbyn of course - he is a lot worse. Beyond the pale you might say (except that might incite allegations of antisemitism.) But the difference, and it's a big one with an end date and time enshrined in International Law, is that the UK really do need a Brexit plan. Whether the UK is lead by Labour or the Conservatives. This isn't Straw's blase memoirs. Your plan to just say the opposite of what the Conservatives say but not to have a credible alternative is exactly Labour's present situation and the reason why they wouldn't win an election until Brexit is sorted.
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Post by Northy on Nov 14, 2018 18:24:43 GMT
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 14, 2018 18:31:23 GMT
What I like about the Brexit lot is that they're not hysterical or full of hyperbole: EDIT: Btw, Southampton's response to that tweet was pretty impressive:
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 14, 2018 18:37:17 GMT
I am Dave's Views.
Confidence vote in May is on. Letters in. Hasn't convinced cabinet. Cancelled presser. Cancelled meeting with big business. DUP still not briefed. She's gone.
EDIT: Raab's trip to Brussels cancelled.
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 14, 2018 18:39:56 GMT
I am Dave's Views. Confidence vote in May is on. Letters in. Hasn't convinced cabinet. Cancelled presser. Cancelled meeting with big business. DUP still not briefed. She's gone. If true. Thank God. Now get someone in who is more competent and committed to deliver for those who voted out.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 14, 2018 18:45:06 GMT
Imagine being the sort of people who campaign and vote to leave the EU, and then get hugely pissed off when a Prime Minister tries to take the country out of the EU. What has gotten into the Eurosceptic side of the Tory party?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 14, 2018 18:53:58 GMT
She's never tried at all. Fit up.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 14, 2018 18:58:42 GMT
The day the Eurosceptic side of the Tory party tried to get rid of the Prime Minister because she formulated a plan for us to leave the EU is going to seem like an odd day in history.
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