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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 9, 2018 19:32:39 GMT
You have more faith than I, Clayton. I still think May will shaft us. May will try but party politics will come into play and the opposition will force a no deal in place for a while. The question is what happens then? Probably a GE and all bets are off on the path after that. Instead of sniping Corbyn, if elected, will have to put into play the deal that he says he has, that is waiting to be signed by the EU. We'll see. Corbyn the mumbling contradiction The Eu has said it won’t allow cherry picking Corbyns deal doesn’t only want cherries he wants icing as well It would be royal icing but he’s not into the monarchy
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 9, 2018 20:19:36 GMT
May will try but party politics will come into play and the opposition will force a no deal in place for a while. The question is what happens then? Probably a GE and all bets are off on the path after that. Instead of sniping Corbyn, if elected, will have to put into play the deal that he says he has, that is waiting to be signed by the EU. We'll see. Corbyn the mumbling contradiction The Eu has said it won’t allow cherry picking Corbyns deal doesn’t only want cherries he wants icing as well It would be royal icing but he’s not into the monarchy Corbyn's only interest is becoming PM, literally nothing he won't say or do to achieve it, here's the thing though he is only interested in being PM post brexit so he can blame May or whoever for the deal we come out with. Anyway EU have got greedy and have now pretty much given a deal that will get voted down so hopefully no deal it is. I mean obviously I realise no deal means we all starve to death because since we are not in the EU all those EU companies that give away food to EU hauliers to deliver free of charge through EU ports that are also free of charge to UK supermarkets for them to sell to people living in the UK will stop doing that as soon as we leave the EU, hold on wait you say its not free Of all the contemptible lies I have heard the you will all starve to death in the event of no deal is right up there.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 9, 2018 20:33:44 GMT
You have more faith than I, Clayton. I still think May will shaft us. Of course she will, she's a fully fledged Remainer. I agree with Johnson's comments, the games rules will be set fully by the EU, and we wont be able to oppose anything we don't like... Which does nothing but prove us right all along. We're not getting Brexit in the slightest, we're infact getting the exact opposite, we're getting Remain on steroids. I think you are right. The narrative is that Brexit isn't achievable; but the truth is we haven't even tried.
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 9, 2018 20:40:46 GMT
Has anyone who wants a second vote considered the consequences of what conditions the EU would place on us to revoke Article 50??? We haven't left yet but we've invoked Article 50 which makes turning back subject to EU agreements. Surely no one would want that scenario??? I suppose the gullible remainers are so frightened and cowed they would accept any old shit? At the moment this point is in the hand of the courts and has gone all the way up to .... you've guessed it the European court!!! I'm quite sure you are right, why you take such glee I'm not so sure.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 9, 2018 20:41:15 GMT
Genuinely can't perceive any positive outcome. I can from your point of view. May will come back again something akin to remaining, but still not good enough to sway parliament, there will be a second referendum and Remain will win 52% to 48%. And then the shit will really hit the fan.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 9, 2018 20:44:58 GMT
At the moment this point is in the hand of the courts and has gone all the way up to .... you've guessed it the European court!!! I'm quite sure you are right, why you take such glee I'm not so sure. Because many on here seem happy to be subservient to the EU mafia. They have taken great delight in the seeming humiliation of our Prime Minister and country. The same goes for the media. They have been on the EU's side from day one.
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 9, 2018 20:48:55 GMT
Genuinely can't perceive any positive outcome. I can from your point of view. May will come back again something akin to remaining, but still not good enough to sway parliament, there will be a second referendum and Remain will win 52% to 48%. And then the shit will really hit the fan. I think you've hit the nail on the head, the people voted and everyone knows the result. At the moment all this second 'people vote' seems a little abstract to reality, but if it became reality there would be a serious backlash (outside of London obviously).
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 9, 2018 20:56:53 GMT
I can from your point of view. May will come back again something akin to remaining, but still not good enough to sway parliament, there will be a second referendum and Remain will win 52% to 48%. And then the shit will really hit the fan. I think you've hit the nail on the head, the people voted and everyone knows the result. At the moment all this second 'people vote' seems a little abstract to reality, but if it became reality there would be a serious backlash (outside of London obviously). People laughed it off a while ago, but they are taking more seriously about it now. I think the politicians who didn't think we could possibly vote for Brexit will have a "people's vote" rather than agree to push any form of it through. They then look good, and democratic while sneakily getting their way.
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 9, 2018 21:10:42 GMT
I think you've hit the nail on the head, the people voted and everyone knows the result. At the moment all this second 'people vote' seems a little abstract to reality, but if it became reality there would be a serious backlash (outside of London obviously). People laughed it off a while ago, but they are taking more seriously about it now. I think the politicians who didn't think we could possibly vote for Brexit will have a "people's vote" rather than agree to push any form of it through. They then look good, and democratic while sneakily getting their way. The problem for the London centric establishment is that they are so far detached from the common man/woman . I'm not so sure that a second referendum would give the result that the chattering classes want.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Nov 9, 2018 22:00:28 GMT
So, to sum up, we can't leave the EU unless ditch or annexe Northern Ireland?
I cannot remember this issue coming up in the referendum debates, and it it did, then the remainers did a piss poor job of explaining the futility of us trying to leave the EU.
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Post by lordb on Nov 9, 2018 23:28:03 GMT
Genuinely can't perceive any positive outcome. I can from your point of view. May will come back again something akin to remaining, but still not good enough to sway parliament, there will be a second referendum and Remain will win 52% to 48%. And then the shit will really hit the fan. Remain or Brexit the country is divided,this will last a very very long time. That's bad news for everyone.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 9, 2018 23:44:57 GMT
I can from your point of view. May will come back again something akin to remaining, but still not good enough to sway parliament, there will be a second referendum and Remain will win 52% to 48%. And then the shit will really hit the fan. Remain or Brexit the country is divided,this will last a very very long time. That's bad news for everyone. That we can agree on.
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Post by potteringermany on Nov 10, 2018 8:42:38 GMT
Remain or Brexit the country is divided,this will last a very very long time. That's bad news for everyone. That we can agree on. I also agree. And for me, the politicians for the last thrity or so years are mainly responsible. The referendum result has only brought the divisions that were already there to the surface and many could and should have been acted on before - the North/South divide, jobs in the Midlands and North, funding of the NHS, training of doctors and nurses, illegal immigration ...etc,etc
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 10, 2018 9:00:56 GMT
I also agree. And for me, the politicians for the last thrity or so years are mainly responsible. The referendum result has only brought the divisions that were already there to the surface and many could and should have been acted on before - the North/South divide, jobs in the Midlands and North, funding of the NHS, training of doctors and nurses, illegal immigration ...etc,etc That's my worry if Brexit gets overturned ; all those issues get overlooked again and the political class think everything is hunky dory. It was largely working class people that voted out, and they have been ignored for too long.
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Post by lordb on Nov 10, 2018 9:25:55 GMT
I also agree. And for me, the politicians for the last thrity or so years are mainly responsible. The referendum result has only brought the divisions that were already there to the surface and many could and should have been acted on before - the North/South divide, jobs in the Midlands and North, funding of the NHS, training of doctors and nurses, illegal immigration ...etc,etc That's my worry if Brexit gets overturned ; all those issues get overlooked again and the political class think everything is hunky dory. It was largely working class people that voted out, and they have been ignored for too long. If we have Brexit or not those issues will continue to be ignored. Anyone expecting anything else is going to be disappointed
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 10, 2018 9:34:13 GMT
That's my worry if Brexit gets overturned ; all those issues get overlooked again and the political class think everything is hunky dory. It was largely working class people that voted out, and they have been ignored for too long. If we have Brexit or not those issues will continue to be ignored. Anyone expecting anything else is going to be disappointed I think you may be right. I have heard the same shit from all the parties for the best part of 40 years. All have promised so much, but delivered so little. I think Brexit highlighted wrongs, but there seems no interest in righting them. The status quo suits too many.
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Post by skemstokie on Nov 10, 2018 10:23:53 GMT
I also agree. And for me, the politicians for the last thrity or so years are mainly responsible. The referendum result has only brought the divisions that were already there to the surface and many could and should have been acted on before - the North/South divide, jobs in the Midlands and North, funding of the NHS, training of doctors and nurses, illegal immigration ...etc,etc That's my worry if Brexit gets overturned ; all those issues get overlooked again and the political class think everything is hunky dory. It was largely working class people that voted out, and they have been ignored for too long. Do you really believe that if we leave and as seems most likely we are worse off any of those issues will improve The push for Brexit has mainly been lead by people with wealth who will not troubled by it.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Nov 10, 2018 10:26:48 GMT
That's my worry if Brexit gets overturned ; all those issues get overlooked again and the political class think everything is hunky dory. It was largely working class people that voted out, and they have been ignored for too long. Do you really believe that if we leave and as seems most likely we are worse off any of those issues will improve :-S You're right, lets go with the status quo. Lets ignore the thick ignorant plebs and carry on as is :-S
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Post by skemstokie on Nov 10, 2018 10:30:12 GMT
Do you really believe that if we leave and as seems most likely we are worse off any of those issues will improve You're right, lets go with the status quo. Lets ignore the thick ignorant plebs and carry on as is I think the EU is scapegoat for a lot of issues,if you check rules imposed by the EU most favour the general public not the elite?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 10, 2018 10:47:57 GMT
You're right, lets go with the status quo. Lets ignore the thick ignorant plebs and carry on as is I think the EU is scapegoat for a lot of issues,if you check rules imposed by the EU most favour the general public not the elite? Free movement hasn't.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 10, 2018 10:50:36 GMT
That's my worry if Brexit gets overturned ; all those issues get overlooked again and the political class think everything is hunky dory. It was largely working class people that voted out, and they have been ignored for too long. Do you really believe that if we leave and as seems most likely we are worse off any of those issues will improve The push for Brexit has mainly been lead by people with wealth who will not troubled by it. Like Blair and Heseltine? Jezza secretly wants out, and so did a lot of Labour stalwarts.
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Post by skemstokie on Nov 10, 2018 11:12:56 GMT
Sorry i was not aware you knew Jezza`s secrets.
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Post by skemstokie on Nov 10, 2018 11:18:51 GMT
I think the EU is scapegoat for a lot of issues,if you check rules imposed by the EU most favour the general public not the elite? Free movement hasn't. Freedom of movement is two directional,i worked in warehouse/logistics and without migrant workers we would have struggled (along with hospitality,care homes,agriculture and other sectors ) and the operatives in the warehouse were paid well above the minimum wage so in my case did not drive down wages?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 10, 2018 11:53:36 GMT
Freedom of movement is two directional,i worked in warehouse/logistics and without migrant workers we would have struggled (along with hospitality,care homes,agriculture and other sectors ) and the operatives in the warehouse were paid well above the minimum wage so in my case did not drive down wages? In your case. Not in mine or loads of other people I know. I have worked nights on minimum wage in the care sector. That never happened before there was a huge supply of immigrants for cheapskate employers to pick from. Some of the care they delivered was shit, too.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 10, 2018 11:59:53 GMT
Sorry i was not aware you knew Jezza`s secrets. Well it's not even a secret. The fucker wanted out for 35 years, but sold his soul for a bit of power!
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 10, 2018 12:10:23 GMT
Patrick O'Flynn is someone that I've found to have good insight into " what's going on" judging by what he has previously said. I tend to agree with what he tweets here... whether it would also spark a leadership challenge in the Conservative party is a possibility.....the reason that there has not already been one, in my opinion, is simply because the ERG group , or any others have not got the numbers to win a contest. Really it could be argued that she is holding Her party to ransom...my way ( BRINO) or more chaos and uncertainty ( the end result of which could be BRINO or No BREXIT). Remains to be seen though.
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 10, 2018 12:32:12 GMT
Freedom of movement is two directional,i worked in warehouse/logistics and without migrant workers we would have struggled (along with hospitality,care homes,agriculture and other sectors ) and the operatives in the warehouse were paid well above the minimum wage so in my case did not drive down wages? T Well I can assure you in Norfolk all free movement has achieved is the lowering of unskilled work to the minimum wage Almost all unskilled work is through agencies One of which two main ones are run by Portuguese the other by poles One of my sons found himself temporarily unemployed went for a job to these agencies mysteriously no work a Portuguese mate of his (went to school with him ) got a start the next day There are vast areas of this country were the indigenous population are heartily pissed off that they can’t get a doctors appointment They cart get there kids into a school of choice Social housing forget it And most of these problems are directly caused by uncontrollable mass migration from Europe Directly engineered by the Blair government in a blatant attempt to gerrymander the electorate so as to insure a labour government for life Blair and his cohorts have got what they deserve with the leave vote You reap what you sow
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 10, 2018 12:59:02 GMT
I also agree. And for me, the politicians for the last thrity or so years are mainly responsible. The referendum result has only brought the divisions that were already there to the surface and many could and should have been acted on before - the North/South divide, jobs in the Midlands and North, funding of the NHS, training of doctors and nurses, illegal immigration ...etc,etc That's my worry if Brexit gets overturned ; all those issues get overlooked again and the political class think everything is hunky dory. It was largely working class people that voted out, and they have been ignored for too long. That may be statistically true, but their are plenty of middle class (and higher) voted out as well. I spent a lifetime as a senior manager in industry, many years working for a French company and for Dutch managers. I was a member of a European committee which I chaired for for 3 years. My step-son now semi-retired was a CEO for an international company based in Singapore. We are both very much opposed to being in the EU which not only ties the hands of our countries economy it has destroyed the economies of Southern Europe. I have changed my view 180 degrees from the 1970s when I was very pro the Common Market. The world has massively changed since the Common Market was established in the 1950s. My father was implacably opposed to it and said "You watch they will come to rule this country, you cannot have economic union without political union". How right he was. The world is much "smaller" with e commerce and Europe will only grow economically very slowly. We need to be trading freely with the rest of the world instead of being tied to an economic union with which our proportion of trade is declining* while our growth of trade with the rest of the world could grow must faster.+ The EU concept belongs to the second half of the 20th century. The future is world economies being drawn closer together. We are no longer a manufacturing country but have a service economy that can service the whole of he world, particularly those economies that are growing rapidly. * fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2dmT3e3J3gIVwpTVCh1jzANZEAAYAyAAEgIyu_D_BwE* www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/08/why-the-uk-trade-deficit-with-the-eu-is-woeful-and-widening+ www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-exports-to-non-eu-countries-continue-to-outstrip-eu "90% of global trade will come from outside EU." + www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.html?redirect NB This is an EU document.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Nov 10, 2018 13:23:43 GMT
You're right, lets go with the status quo. Lets ignore the thick ignorant plebs and carry on as is :-S I think the EU is scapegoat for a lot of issues,if you check rules imposed by the EU most favour the general public not the elite? You can think what you like same as everyone else, that’s why we have elections and referendum. What we don’t need is you telling everyone who voted the other way they were wrong because of what you think and that we’d be better off doing it again until we get the result you want.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 13:30:14 GMT
Patrick O'Flynn is someone that I've found to have good insight into " what's going on" judging by what he has previously said. I tend to agree with what he tweets here... whether it would also spark a leadership challenge in the Conservative party is a possibility.....the reason that there has not already been one, in my opinion, is simply because the ERG group , or any others have not got the numbers to win a contest. Really it could be argued that she is holding Her party to ransom...my way ( BRINO) or more chaos and uncertainty ( the end result of which could be BRINO or No BREXIT). Remains to be seen though. This is foolish and she'll get destroyed.
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