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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 10, 2018 13:50:16 GMT
Patrick O'Flynn is someone that I've found to have good insight into " what's going on" judging by what he has previously said. I tend to agree with what he tweets here... whether it would also spark a leadership challenge in the Conservative party is a possibility.....the reason that there has not already been one, in my opinion, is simply because the ERG group , or any others have not got the numbers to win a contest. Really it could be argued that she is holding Her party to ransom...my way ( BRINO) or more chaos and uncertainty ( the end result of which could be BRINO or No BREXIT). Remains to be seen though. This is foolish and she'll get destroyed. The stitch up is getting closer to completion. Two parties who have no respect for the result of the referendum. And people harp on about lies on a fucking bus.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 10, 2018 13:52:57 GMT
Freedom of movement is two directional,i worked in warehouse/logistics and without migrant workers we would have struggled (along with hospitality,care homes,agriculture and other sectors ) and the operatives in the warehouse were paid well above the minimum wage so in my case did not drive down wages? T Well I can assure you in Norfolk all free movement has achieved is the lowering of unskilled work to the minimum wage Almost all unskilled work is through agencies One of which two main ones are run by Portuguese the other by poles One of my sons found himself temporarily unemployed went for a job to these agencies mysteriously no work a Portuguese mate of his (went to school with him ) got a start the next day There are vast areas of this country were the indigenous population are heartily pissed off that they can’t get a doctors appointment They cart get there kids into a school of choice Social housing forget it And most of these problems are directly caused by uncontrollable mass migration from Europe Directly engineered by the Blair government in a blatant attempt to gerrymander the electorate so as to insure a labour government for life Blair and his cohorts have got what they deserve with the leave vote You reap what you sow Thank you.
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Post by skemstokie on Nov 10, 2018 14:11:35 GMT
I think the EU is scapegoat for a lot of issues,if you check rules imposed by the EU most favour the general public not the elite? You can think what you like same as everyone else, that’s why we have elections and referendum. What we don’t need is you telling everyone who voted the other way they were wrong because of what you think and that we’d be better off doing it again until we get the result you want. All i did was express my opinion which i believe is my right,i don`t` recall telling people they voted wrong,they voted based on their opinion as did i.
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Post by skemstokie on Nov 10, 2018 14:14:25 GMT
Freedom of movement is two directional,i worked in warehouse/logistics and without migrant workers we would have struggled (along with hospitality,care homes,agriculture and other sectors ) and the operatives in the warehouse were paid well above the minimum wage so in my case did not drive down wages? T Well I can assure you in Norfolk all free movement has achieved is the lowering of unskilled work to the minimum wage Almost all unskilled work is through agencies One of which two main ones are run by Portuguese the other by poles One of my sons found himself temporarily unemployed went for a job to these agencies mysteriously no work a Portuguese mate of his (went to school with him ) got a start the next day There are vast areas of this country were the indigenous population are heartily pissed off that they can’t get a doctors appointment They cart get there kids into a school of choice Social housing forget it And most of these problems are directly caused by uncontrollable mass migration from Europe Directly engineered by the Blair government in a blatant attempt to gerrymander the electorate so as to insure a labour government for life Blair and his cohorts have got what they deserve with the leave vote You reap what you sow I will agree with you on one part, all agency and zero hour contracts should be banned but that is my opinion.
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Post by skemstokie on Nov 10, 2018 14:19:06 GMT
Do you really believe that if we leave and as seems most likely we are worse off any of those issues will improve You're right, lets go with the status quo. Lets ignore the thick ignorant plebs and carry on as is I don`t recall calling anyone thick ignorant plebs but do think status quo is best in my opinion which i was what i thought we did on this forum? It is all opinions.
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 10, 2018 14:25:31 GMT
T Well I can assure you in Norfolk all free movement has achieved is the lowering of unskilled work to the minimum wage Almost all unskilled work is through agencies One of which two main ones are run by Portuguese the other by poles One of my sons found himself temporarily unemployed went for a job to these agencies mysteriously no work a Portuguese mate of his (went to school with him ) got a start the next day There are vast areas of this country were the indigenous population are heartily pissed off that they can’t get a doctors appointment They cart get there kids into a school of choice Social housing forget it And most of these problems are directly caused by uncontrollable mass migration from Europe Directly engineered by the Blair government in a blatant attempt to gerrymander the electorate so as to insure a labour government for life Blair and his cohorts have got what they deserve with the leave vote You reap what you sow I will agree with you on one part, all agency and zero hour contracts should be banned but that is my opinion. Not often I find myself in agreement with you But on the subject of agencies and zero hour contracts I couldn’t agree more
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Post by skemstokie on Nov 10, 2018 14:27:47 GMT
I think the EU is scapegoat for a lot of issues,if you check rules imposed by the EU most favour the general public not the elite? Free movement hasn't. How many British people now work and live in the EU ? are they being exploited? the problem lies closer to home we need more rules to kerb British employers exploiting ALL workers, but again that is my opinion.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 10, 2018 14:31:30 GMT
How many British people now work and live in the EU ? are they being exploited? the problem lies closer to home we need more rules to kerb British employers exploiting ALL workers, but again that is my opinion. I agree, lack of union power, for example, has contributed, but if you workers are ten a penny, it puts the employers at a huge advantage.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 10, 2018 14:34:02 GMT
I will agree with you on one part, all agency and zero hour contracts should be banned but that is my opinion. Not often I find myself in agreement with you But on the subject of agencies and zero hour contracts I couldn’t agree more Same here. Agencies really piss me off. Why go through a middle man to get a job?
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Post by skemstokie on Nov 10, 2018 15:31:39 GMT
Not often I find myself in agreement with you But on the subject of agencies and zero hour contracts I couldn’t agree more Same here. Agencies really piss me off. Why go through a middle man to get a job? I agree and i still think it is more likely to be a EU law that will eradicate this workers scourge,as people say all to often these laws are implemented by diplomats who have not been elected, a good thing meaning they don`t mind upsetting people(employers and the wealthy) and can pass laws which might not otherwise come about
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 15:56:44 GMT
The BBC are leading with ""Travesty" not to have a new brexit vote" from Boris Johnson's brother. You know, that guy that most people probably didn't know existed until logging onto the BBC site today.
Meanwhile, four dead in a car crash in Sheffield, nine dead and 150k forced to flee wildfires in California, and a woman badly burnt in acid attack in Edinburgh.
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Post by skemstokie on Nov 10, 2018 16:07:27 GMT
The BBC are leading with ""Travesty" not to have a new brexit vote" from Boris Johnson's brother. You know, that guy that most people probably didn't know existed until logging onto the BBC site today. Meanwhile, four dead in a car crash in Sheffield, nine dead and 150k forced to flee wildfires in California, and a woman badly burnt in acid attack in Edinburgh. So the B.B.C. could broadcast all the leave campaign quotes but not Jo Johnson`s thoughts?
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 10, 2018 17:35:59 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 10, 2018 17:41:40 GMT
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Post by yeokel on Nov 10, 2018 18:15:24 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 10, 2018 18:19:49 GMT
Well that's all well and good. But I go out walking every weekend in Scotland's magnificent hills (I bagged Munro #183 today btw). What am I going to do when they've all gone. Those mountains have been here for years - at least as long as we've been in the EU in fact. Possibly longer. And now it's all been put at risk. Selfish and heartless. And all because you folks believe what was written on the side of a bus.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 10, 2018 18:21:46 GMT
Well that's all well and good. But I go out walking every weekend in Scotland's magnificent hills (I bagged Munro #183 today btw). What I am going to do when they've all gone. Those mountains have been here for years - at least as long as we've been in the EU in fact. Possibly longer. And now it's all been put at risk. Selfish and heartless. And all because you folks believe what was written on the side of a bus. Emigrate to Bavaria? Or the Lake District?
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 10, 2018 18:29:40 GMT
Well that's all well and good. But I go out walking every weekend in Scotland's magnificent hills (I bagged Munro #183 today btw). What I am going to do when they've all gone. Those mountains have been here for years - at least as long as we've been in the EU in fact. Possibly longer. And now it's all been put at risk. Selfish and heartless. And all because you folks believe what was written on the side of a bus. Emigrate to Bavaria? Or the Lake District? Don't be so silly, John. The Lake District will no longer be in the EU either, so it will also disappear!
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Post by yeokel on Nov 10, 2018 18:45:16 GMT
When people on here accuse me of not knowing what I voted for it is beginning to seem that they might be right. Why didn't Remain warn us that the Scottish Highlands, the English Lake District, Snowdonia in Wales might disappear as a result of Brexit.
I feel betrayed, and demand another vote.
I can only hope that the Peak District is spared the ecological and geological disasters we know as Brexit.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Nov 10, 2018 18:45:29 GMT
Well that's all well and good. But I go out walking every weekend in Scotland's magnificent hills (I bagged Munro #183 today btw). What am I going to do when they've all gone. Those mountains have been here for years - at least as long as we've been in the EU in fact. Possibly longer. And now it's all been put at risk. Selfish and heartless. And all because you folks believe what was written on the side of a bus. Think this may cover all bases.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 10, 2018 19:09:40 GMT
Freedom of movement is two directional,i worked in warehouse/logistics and without migrant workers we would have struggled (along with hospitality,care homes,agriculture and other sectors ) and the operatives in the warehouse were paid well above the minimum wage so in my case did not drive down wages? T Well I can assure you in Norfolk all free movement has achieved is the lowering of unskilled work to the minimum wage Almost all unskilled work is through agencies One of which two main ones are run by Portuguese the other by poles One of my sons found himself temporarily unemployed went for a job to these agencies mysteriously no work a Portuguese mate of his (went to school with him ) got a start the next day There are vast areas of this country were the indigenous population are heartily pissed off that they can’t get a doctors appointment They cart get there kids into a school of choice Social housing forget it And most of these problems are directly caused by uncontrollable mass migration from Europe Directly engineered by the Blair government in a blatant attempt to gerrymander the electorate so as to insure a labour government for life Blair and his cohorts have got what they deserve with the leave vote You reap what you sow That's just not true waga as remain voters told us all immigration has absolutely no impact on wages, ooops
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Post by tuum on Nov 11, 2018 2:01:34 GMT
That's my worry if Brexit gets overturned ; all those issues get overlooked again and the political class think everything is hunky dory. It was largely working class people that voted out, and they have been ignored for too long. That may be statistically true, but their are plenty of middle class (and higher) voted out as well. I spent a lifetime as a senior manager in industry, many years working for a French company and for Dutch managers. I was a member of a European committee which I chaired for for 3 years. My step-son now semi-retired was a CEO for an international company based in Singapore. We are both very much opposed to being in the EU which not only ties the hands of our countries economy it has destroyed the economies of Southern Europe. I have changed my view 180 degrees from the 1970s when I was very pro the Common Market. The world has massively changed since the Common Market was established in the 1950s. My father was implacably opposed to it and said "You watch they will come to rule this country, you cannot have economic union without political union". How right he was. The world is much "smaller" with e commerce and Europe will only grow economically very slowly. We need to be trading freely with the rest of the world instead of being tied to an economic union with which our proportion of trade is declining* while our growth of trade with the rest of the world could grow must faster.+ The EU concept belongs to the second half of the 20th century. The future is world economies being drawn closer together. We are no longer a manufacturing country but have a service economy that can service the whole of he world, particularly those economies that are growing rapidly. * fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2dmT3e3J3gIVwpTVCh1jzANZEAAYAyAAEgIyu_D_BwE* www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/08/why-the-uk-trade-deficit-with-the-eu-is-woeful-and-widening+ www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-exports-to-non-eu-countries-continue-to-outstrip-eu "90% of global trade will come from outside EU." + www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.html?redirect NB This is an EU document. I agree. The EU is outdated. Staying in the EU is the safe option but is a very short sighted view. Economically the EU will not grow anywhere near as fast as the rest of the world and we will be left behind.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 11, 2018 8:41:39 GMT
That's my worry if Brexit gets overturned ; all those issues get overlooked again and the political class think everything is hunky dory. It was largely working class people that voted out, and they have been ignored for too long. That may be statistically true, but their are plenty of middle class (and higher) voted out as well. I spent a lifetime as a senior manager in industry, many years working for a French company and for Dutch managers. I was a member of a European committee which I chaired for for 3 years. My step-son now semi-retired was a CEO for an international company based in Singapore. We are both very much opposed to being in the EU which not only ties the hands of our countries economy it has destroyed the economies of Southern Europe. I have changed my view 180 degrees from the 1970s when I was very pro the Common Market. The world has massively changed since the Common Market was established in the 1950s. My father was implacably opposed to it and said "You watch they will come to rule this country, you cannot have economic union without political union". How right he was. The world is much "smaller" with e commerce and Europe will only grow economically very slowly. We need to be trading freely with the rest of the world instead of being tied to an economic union with which our proportion of trade is declining* while our growth of trade with the rest of the world could grow must faster.+ The EU concept belongs to the second half of the 20th century. The future is world economies being drawn closer together. We are no longer a manufacturing country but have a service economy that can service the whole of he world, particularly those economies that are growing rapidly. * fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2dmT3e3J3gIVwpTVCh1jzANZEAAYAyAAEgIyu_D_BwE* www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/08/why-the-uk-trade-deficit-with-the-eu-is-woeful-and-widening+ www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-exports-to-non-eu-countries-continue-to-outstrip-eu "90% of global trade will come from outside EU." + www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.html?redirect NB This is an EU document. Brilliant post, and a different slant on things.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 11, 2018 9:57:50 GMT
That may be statistically true, but their are plenty of middle class (and higher) voted out as well. I spent a lifetime as a senior manager in industry, many years working for a French company and for Dutch managers. I was a member of a European committee which I chaired for for 3 years. My step-son now semi-retired was a CEO for an international company based in Singapore. We are both very much opposed to being in the EU which not only ties the hands of our countries economy it has destroyed the economies of Southern Europe. I have changed my view 180 degrees from the 1970s when I was very pro the Common Market. The world has massively changed since the Common Market was established in the 1950s. My father was implacably opposed to it and said "You watch they will come to rule this country, you cannot have economic union without political union". How right he was. The world is much "smaller" with e commerce and Europe will only grow economically very slowly. We need to be trading freely with the rest of the world instead of being tied to an economic union with which our proportion of trade is declining* while our growth of trade with the rest of the world could grow must faster.+ The EU concept belongs to the second half of the 20th century. The future is world economies being drawn closer together. We are no longer a manufacturing country but have a service economy that can service the whole of he world, particularly those economies that are growing rapidly. * fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2dmT3e3J3gIVwpTVCh1jzANZEAAYAyAAEgIyu_D_BwE* www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/08/why-the-uk-trade-deficit-with-the-eu-is-woeful-and-widening+ www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-exports-to-non-eu-countries-continue-to-outstrip-eu "90% of global trade will come from outside EU." + www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.html?redirect NB This is an EU document. Brilliant post, and a different slant on things. Shows how we are successfully trading with the rest of the world while inside the EU.
Doesn't read well for those who thought Brexit would mean we rebalance our economy towards manufacturing and get decent jobs back in the UK for the working class - bankers and the likes of Rees-Mogg / May's hubby will do well.
Interesting to see Macedonia highlighted as one of the country's with strong net trade growth for the UK- we are currently trying to persuade them to join the EU
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Post by Northy on Nov 11, 2018 10:23:45 GMT
So the current land management regimes and grouse shooting for the elite have nothing to do with the demise at present? I funded my lad to volunteer at trees for life (scotland) twice, as part of the re-establishing the caledonian forest, that will certainly help keep them going? hen harries are being persecuted by the grouse shooting brigade, nothing to do with Brexit. The thing that these charities are worried about and say they are going to lose the 'EU funding' but where does the EU get it's money from to fund these projects?
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 11, 2018 12:11:49 GMT
So the current land management regimes and grouse shooting for the elite have nothing to do with the demise at present? I funded my lad to volunteer at trees for life (scotland) twice, as part of the re-establishing the caledonian forest, that will certainly help keep them going? hen harries are being persecuted by the grouse shooting brigade, nothing to do with Brexit. The thing that these charities are worried about and say they are going to lose the 'EU funding' but where does the EU get it's money from to fund these projects? Would it be too cynical to think the primary motivation of the people making these assertions is their continued funding?
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Post by yeokel on Nov 11, 2018 12:58:22 GMT
So the current land management regimes and grouse shooting for the elite have nothing to do with the demise at present? I funded my lad to volunteer at trees for life (scotland) twice, as part of the re-establishing the caledonian forest, that will certainly help keep them going? hen harries are being persecuted by the grouse shooting brigade, nothing to do with Brexit. The thing that these charities are worried about and say they are going to lose the 'EU funding' but where does the EU get it's money from to fund these projects? Would it be too cynical to think the primary motivation of the people making these assertions is their continued funding? Wash your mouth out with a bar of soap. I'm sure there is not a single ounce of self interest in their claims.
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Post by capto on Nov 11, 2018 17:23:23 GMT
EL4C @el4jc Sir Harold Evans: "What's been forgotten, is how the war started - it started because of Nationalism." Probably the most profound and insightful comment you will hear today. @armisticeday100 Pilar Gomez #FBPE 🇪🇺 @redalphababe · What is it the TPA don’t want discovered in court that they have capitulated on everything in this case without a fight ? bbc TaxPayers’ Alliance concedes it launched smears against Brexit whistleblower Ya’akov Sloman @yaakovsloman · For those who use today to "remember those who died for <our country>", they are missing the point. We all must remember those who died because greedy people with the power to start wars do, and those with no power and good intentions fight and die for them. 1. For every £1.00 (0.6% of GDP) we contribute to the EU, the country earns over £10 from membership 2. For every £10 the UK earns, 82%, so £8-20 goes to the top 1% of the population. 3. Everything quitters, leavers, brexiteers, far-right, MSM etc you about the EU is lies 4. Ask the question - why would they lie?
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 11, 2018 21:26:00 GMT
EL4C @el4jc Sir Harold Evans: "What's been forgotten, is how the war started - it started because of Nationalism." Probably the most profound and insightful comment you will hear today. @armisticeday100 Pilar Gomez #FBPE 🇪🇺 @redalphababe · What is it the TPA don’t want discovered in court that they have capitulated on everything in this case without a fight ? bbc TaxPayers’ Alliance concedes it launched smears against Brexit whistleblower Ya’akov Sloman @yaakovsloman · For those who use today to "remember those who died for <our country>", they are missing the point. We all must remember those who died because greedy people with the power to start wars do, and those with no power and good intentions fight and die for them. 1. For every £1.00 (0.6% of GDP) we contribute to the EU, the country earns over £10 from membership 2. For every £10 the UK earns, 82%, so £8-20 goes to the top 1% of the population. 3. Everything quitters, leavers, brexiteers, far-right, MSM etc you about the EU is lies 4. Ask the question - why would they lie? So you're now quoting 90 year old journalists who haven't lived in Europe for the past 30 years (yes I was sad enough to actually follow one of capto's links
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 11, 2018 21:47:00 GMT
EL4C @el4jc Sir Harold Evans: "What's been forgotten, is how the war started - it started because of Nationalism." Probably the most profound and insightful comment you will hear today. @armisticeday100 Pilar Gomez #FBPE 🇪🇺 @redalphababe · What is it the TPA don’t want discovered in court that they have capitulated on everything in this case without a fight ? bbc TaxPayers’ Alliance concedes it launched smears against Brexit whistleblower Ya’akov Sloman @yaakovsloman · For those who use today to "remember those who died for <our country>", they are missing the point. We all must remember those who died because greedy people with the power to start wars do, and those with no power and good intentions fight and die for them. 1. For every £1.00 (0.6% of GDP) we contribute to the EU, the country earns over £10 from membership 2. For every £10 the UK earns, 82%, so £8-20 goes to the top 1% of the population. 3. Everything quitters, leavers, brexiteers, far-right, MSM etc you about the EU is lies 4. Ask the question - why would they lie? So you're now quoting 90 year old journalists who haven't lived in Europe for the past 30 years (yes I was sad enough to actually follow one of capto's links That is sad.
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