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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 28, 2018 8:53:47 GMT
Aren't you just a tad concerned that no-one seems to have a clue what we actually send to the EU?? Actually many do. Those who don’t should never have been able to vote in the referendum as they don’t know what the issues they are voting about. It’s not democracy if the voters have been deceived.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Oct 28, 2018 9:04:00 GMT
Are you related to Oggy, Small (if I might be so bold as to call you that)? It's one of those irregular verbs again: Remainers PredictLeavers LieAgnostics shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe
A prediction is an opinion. I think man city will win the premiership this season. If they don’t, I haven’t lied. Whereas saying Liverpool won the league last season is a lie, because i know it is not true. How do leave voters not see the distinction? I predict the Earth will break out of it's solar orbit on 29th March 2019 and crash into the sun. Is that a prediction or a lie?
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Post by pearo on Oct 28, 2018 9:08:19 GMT
Are you related to Oggy, Small (if I might be so bold as to call you that)? It's one of those irregular verbs again: Remainers PredictLeavers LieAgnostics shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe
A prediction is an opinion. I think man city will win the premiership this season. If they don’t, I haven’t lied. Whereas saying Liverpool won the league last season is a lie, because i know it is not true. How do leave voters not see the distinction? A prediction is an opinion. I think the UK will leave the EU in 2019. If they don’t, I haven’t lied. Whereas saying Leave lost the referendum is a lie, because I know it is not true. How do Remain voters not see the distinction?
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 28, 2018 9:14:32 GMT
A prediction is an opinion. I think man city will win the premiership this season. If they don’t, I haven’t lied. Whereas saying Liverpool won the league last season is a lie, because i know it is not true. How do leave voters not see the distinction? A prediction is an opinion. I think the UK will leave the EU in 2019. If they don’t, I haven’t lied. Whereas saying Leave lost the referendum is a lie, because I know it is not true. How do Remain voters not see the distinction? I’m a remainer and I see the distinction. So you also must understand the difference between Boris’ bus and economic predictions.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 28, 2018 9:15:25 GMT
A prediction is an opinion. I think man city will win the premiership this season. If they don’t, I haven’t lied. Whereas saying Liverpool won the league last season is a lie, because i know it is not true. How do leave voters not see the distinction? I predict the Earth will break out of it's solar orbit on 29th March 2019 and crash into the sun. Is that a prediction or a lie? A prediction, unless you know absolutely that it is not possible and it won’t happen. Then arguably it is a lie.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 28, 2018 9:19:20 GMT
On a separate matter, if in an important football match, such as the world cup final, the winning team were found to all have been doping. What would happen? Would the result still stand and all those complaining about the result be told to shut up because once the game is over that ends all debate?
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Post by Clayton Wood on Oct 28, 2018 9:37:01 GMT
I predict the Earth will break out of it's solar orbit on 29th March 2019 and crash into the sun. Is that a prediction or a lie? A prediction, unless you know absolutely that it is not possible and it won’t happen. Then arguably it is a lie. Correct, except neither you or me know categorically that it will not happen. The probability is so slim that it would be considered unfounded. Then you need to consider the motive for the prediction. Why 29th March 2019? Why the whole Earth, not just the UK will be sucked off the planet and crash into the sun? When you look at the motive you understand the logic behind it. It says that if we leave the EU the whole planet will be destroyed in a fireball. To say it's just the UK land mass puts it in the impossible category, but the whole planet leaves a scintilla of credibility. Now I'm not saying all of remains/leaves predictions were of that nature, but fell somewhere in between that and certainty. It's down to the recipient of the message to decide on credibility and motive. You decided £350m a week had a motive and a credibility you could not accept. I decided that last weeks prediction that Strictly Come Dancing would end with a no deal Brexit was the same (since refuted as fake news by the BBC - pity it's shit). If you ever have nothing better to do (unlikely!) try reading www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00R6A38W4/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
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Post by Kilo on Oct 28, 2018 9:37:03 GMT
Good grief, 380 pages in and some are still whinging about what it said on the side of a bus. The figures are published - in 2016 it was £327m, in 2014 it was £361m.
With the rebate in 2014 it was £276m or nearly £1.2 Billion - each month Whether it's half a billion or one and a half every month, I want our polititians to be accountable for where that money is spent.
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 28, 2018 9:52:46 GMT
Aren't you just a tad concerned that no-one seems to have a clue what we actually send to the EU?? Actually many do. Those who don’t should never have been able to vote in the referendum as they don’t know what the issues they are voting about. It’s not democracy if the voters have been deceived. Deary me are you saying we should interfere with universal suffrage What are you proposing IQ testing before being able to vote Or maybe compulsory five hours of brainwashing before going into the booth Or you could test peoples income and only allow people who have something to lose the vote It is the condescending attitude of many remainers that caused many to vote leave
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 28, 2018 9:56:20 GMT
Actually many do. Those who don’t should never have been able to vote in the referendum as they don’t know what the issues they are voting about. It’s not democracy if the voters have been deceived. Deary me are you saying we should interfere with universal suffrage What are you proposing IQ testing before being able to vote Or maybe compulsory five hours of brainwashing before going into the booth Or you could test peoples income and only allow people who have something to lose the vote It is the condescending attitude of many remainers that caused many to vote leave Actually I have a very simple solution. Stick to our parliamentary democracy and not have referenda. Allow politicians to make the decisions (as they should be better informed than any of us) amd if we don’t like them, we vote them out in general elections periodically, rather than having one off votes which are based on lies and doom mongering but the results of which are then treated as irreversible regardless as to public opinion.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 28, 2018 10:00:19 GMT
A prediction, unless you know absolutely that it is not possible and it won’t happen. Then arguably it is a lie. Correct, except neither you or me know categorically that it will not happen. The probability is so slim that it would be considered unfounded. Then you need to consider the motive for the prediction. Why 29th March 2019? Why the whole Earth, not just the UK will be sucked off the planet and crash into the sun? When you look at the motive you understand the logic behind it. It says that if we leave the EU the whole planet will be destroyed in a fireball. To say it's just the UK land mass puts it in the impossible category, but the whole planet leaves a scintilla of credibility. Now I'm not saying all of remains/leaves predictions were of that nature, but fell somewhere in between that and certainty. It's down to the recipient of the message to decide on credibility and motive. You decided £350m a week had a motive and a credibility you could not accept. I decided that last weeks prediction that Strictly Come Dancing would end with a no deal Brexit was the same (since refuted as fake news by the BBC - pity it's shit). If you ever have nothing better to do (unlikely!) try reading www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00R6A38W4/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 I didn’t decide. The fact is we do not send £350m a week to the EU and if we leave we will not have that additional sum to spend on something else, like the NHS. It was a lie and, according to the vote leave boss, Dominic Cummings, it made the dofference to win the vote for leave. Also your previous prediction had nothing whatsoever to do with the EU. Not sure why you are linking the two.
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Post by smallthorner on Oct 28, 2018 10:01:15 GMT
The figure is a gross figure and not the true contribution. It is "implied" that this figure is going to the funding of our National Health Service. So more of a prediction, as oggy would say No...its a lie... Because they knew the true net figure. They published the totally misleading gross figure. And made a statement to imply that this totally incorrect figure would go to the Health Service. Even Farage admitted it was a lie and deceitful so I don't know what your gripe is.
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 28, 2018 10:03:45 GMT
Deary me are you saying we should interfere with universal suffrage What are you proposing IQ testing before being able to vote Or maybe compulsory five hours of brainwashing before going into the booth Or you could test peoples income and only allow people who have something to lose the vote It is the condescending attitude of many remainers that caused many to vote leave Actually I have a very simple solution. Stick to our parliamentary democracy and not have referenda. Allow politicians to make the decisions (as they should be better informed than any of us) amd if we don’t like them, we vote them out in general elections periodically, rather than having one off votes which are based on lies and doom mongering but the results of which are then treated as irreversible regardless as to public opinion. I agree referendums should have no place in our democratic system So we shall return to the last general election over 82 % of people who cast there vote Voted for a party that in its manifesto said we would leave the European Union 82% of people voted leave oh and not a bus in sight
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Oct 28, 2018 10:14:15 GMT
Deary me are you saying we should interfere with universal suffrage What are you proposing IQ testing before being able to vote Or maybe compulsory five hours of brainwashing before going into the booth Or you could test peoples income and only allow people who have something to lose the vote It is the condescending attitude of many remainers that caused many to vote leave Actually I have a very simple solution. Stick to our parliamentary democracy and not have referenda. Allow politicians to make the decisions (as they should be better informed than any of us) amd if we don’t like them, we vote them out in general elections periodically, rather than having one off votes which are based on lies and doom mongering but the results of which are then treated as irreversible regardless as to public opinion. Politicians made the decision to give the public a referendum.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Oct 28, 2018 10:19:33 GMT
Actually I have a very simple solution. Stick to our parliamentary democracy and not have referenda. Allow politicians to make the decisions (as they should be better informed than any of us) amd if we don’t like them, we vote them out in general elections periodically, rather than having one off votes which are based on lies and doom mongering but the results of which are then treated as irreversible regardless as to public opinion. Politicians made the decision to give the public a referendum. By 544 to 53, hardly sneaked it in did they.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Oct 28, 2018 10:42:30 GMT
Historically the turnout was very high and the winning margin not that small. Just that pesky result eh?
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 28, 2018 10:48:05 GMT
Actually I have a very simple solution. Stick to our parliamentary democracy and not have referenda. Allow politicians to make the decisions (as they should be better informed than any of us) amd if we don’t like them, we vote them out in general elections periodically, rather than having one off votes which are based on lies and doom mongering but the results of which are then treated as irreversible regardless as to public opinion. Politicians made the decision to give the public a referendum. If someone needs an operation, it wouldn’t be right for the surgeon to say “this time I’ll let the patient do it themselves”
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 28, 2018 10:50:50 GMT
Actually I have a very simple solution. Stick to our parliamentary democracy and not have referenda. Allow politicians to make the decisions (as they should be better informed than any of us) amd if we don’t like them, we vote them out in general elections periodically, rather than having one off votes which are based on lies and doom mongering but the results of which are then treated as irreversible regardless as to public opinion. I agree referendums should have no place in our democratic system So we shall return to the last general election over 82 % of people who cast there vote Voted for a party that in its manifesto said we would leave the European Union 82% of people voted leave oh and not a bus in sight You are right. But the only reason the two major parties said that was on the back of the referendum result. Had there been no referendum we wouldn’t be in the monumnetal mess we are in at the moment where all domestic policy is on hold until this damned Brexit thing is determined.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 28, 2018 10:52:18 GMT
Historically the turnout was very higher and the winning margin not that small. Just that pesky result eh? Utter garbage. We are leaving on 29 March 2019. The result was to leave. So how in any way is that not being implemented!?!?
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Post by Timmypotter on Oct 28, 2018 10:55:58 GMT
Aren't you just a tad concerned that no-one seems to have a clue what we actually send to the EU?? Actually many do. Those who don’t should never have been able to vote in the referendum as they don’t know what the issues they are voting about. It’s not democracy if the voters have been deceived. Dark.
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Post by harryburrows on Oct 28, 2018 11:08:33 GMT
Historically the turnout was very higher and the winning margin not that small. Just that pesky result eh? Utter garbage. We are leaving on 29 March 2019. The result was to leave. So how in any way is that not being implemented!?!? We have 2 year transition period before we know what brexit will look like . Next march nothing will change
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 28, 2018 11:42:15 GMT
Utter garbage. We are leaving on 29 March 2019. The result was to leave. So how in any way is that not being implemented!?!? We have 2 year transition period before we know what brexit will look like . Next march nothing will change On 29 March 2019, the referendum result will be 100% implemented. But I agree with you. We have no idea about any details of what the leave vote was for.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 28, 2018 12:10:57 GMT
Actually I have a very simple solution. Stick to our parliamentary democracy and not have referenda. Allow politicians to make the decisions (as they should be better informed than any of us) amd if we don’t like them, we vote them out in general elections periodically, rather than having one off votes which are based on lies and doom mongering but the results of which are then treated as irreversible regardless as to public opinion. Politicians made the decision to give the public a referendum. And then spent 2 years fucking around, thinking of a way to stop Brexit by any means. I have no doubt that there will be a second referendum and Remain will win. I am surprised that they didn't fix the first vote.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Oct 28, 2018 12:21:33 GMT
Historically the turnout was very higher and the winning margin not that small. Just that pesky result eh? Utter garbage. We are leaving on 29 March 2019. The result was to leave. So how in any way is that not being implemented!?!? What a retard.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 28, 2018 12:52:53 GMT
Politicians made the decision to give the public a referendum. And then spent 2 years fucking around, thinking of a way to stop Brexit by any means. I have no doubt that there will be a second referendum and Remain will win. I am surprised that they didn't fix the first vote. You clearly don’t understand the process required to leave the EU as set out in article 50.
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Post by shangamuzo on Oct 28, 2018 13:49:19 GMT
We have 2 year transition period before we know what brexit will look like . Next march nothing will change On 29 March 2019, the referendum result will be 100% implemented. But I agree with you. We have no idea about any details of what the leave vote was for. To leave the European Union and Cameron explicitly said that a vote to leave would be a vote to leave the single market.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Oct 28, 2018 13:59:12 GMT
On 29 March 2019, the referendum result will be 100% implemented. But I agree with you. We have no idea about any details of what the leave vote was for. To leave the European Union and Cameron explicitly said that a vote to leave would be a vote to leave the single market. Cameron also said he wouldn't resign. Unfortunately sometimes politicians don't tell the truth.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 28, 2018 13:59:34 GMT
And then spent 2 years fucking around, thinking of a way to stop Brexit by any means. I have no doubt that there will be a second referendum and Remain will win. I am surprised that they didn't fix the first vote. You clearly don’t understand the process required to leave the EU as set out in article 50. Well, I am a thick Brexiteer, after all.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 28, 2018 14:00:28 GMT
To leave the European Union and Cameron explicitly said that a vote to leave would be a vote to leave the single market. Cameron also said he wouldn't resign. Unfortunately sometimes politicians don't tell the truth. So why so much fuss about the bus?
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Oct 28, 2018 14:02:03 GMT
Cameron also said he wouldn't resign. Unfortunately sometimes politicians don't tell the truth. So why so much fuss about the bus? Do you mean the fuss to try and make out it wasn't a lie? I dunno.
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