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Post by Northy on Jul 3, 2021 8:16:04 GMT
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Post by 4372 on Jul 3, 2021 9:08:38 GMT
Just to point out that when I clicked the link, it took me to an article from the Daily Express. A retirement home for flag-flying fetishists.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 3, 2021 9:41:19 GMT
Having had a Dutch boss for some years and visited IJmuiden more times than I could possibly remember (literally scores), I'm aware the Dutch see issues with the EU but they would never leave. The Netherlands is too deeply enmeshed in the EU to even seriously think about leaving. It was my experience at European meetings that the Germans set the agenda and most countries shrug their shoulders and go along with it. Hutte plays a clever game; he is often very critical of EU policy but at the end of the day always votes with the Commission's wishes. He pretends to be Euro sceptic. I do not want the end of a European organization. I want to see a dramatic change with no parliament, court, and a drastically slimmed down executive who simply carry out the wishes of a Council representing each country. Each country should retain its own legal sovereignty and not be over ruled by any one else. Free to leave if they wish. Free to leave the Euro if they wish, etc. I want a free trade association, and committees to promote mutual benefits, such as exchanging best practices. As our relationship with Ireland, Schengen, NATO, Euratom, and other arrangements demonstrate , it is perfectly possible to have mutually beneficial reciprocal arrangements between countries, without having a government.
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Post by neworleanstokie on Jul 3, 2021 12:54:09 GMT
JPMorgan have 19,000 employees in the UK based in London, Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Bournemouth, where they are the biggest employer in the county. They have decided to move a few hundred* (read the link), to Paris to be in the Eurozone as the EU refuses to allow London to trade in Euroshares, and will not grant equivalence to London without setting regulations, just as they will not give equivalence to Switzerland. * I have heard that many employees are refusing to be transferred. London and Zurich are major world centres for finance. London is almost as large as the whole of the EU economic centres combined. Incidentally JPM rapidly terminated employees working from home when lockdown lifted and insisted they report to work. www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/04/28/jp-morgan-requires-employees-to-return-to-their-offices-by-july-striking-a-blow-to-the-remote-work-trend/ I fail to see how anything you mentioned is good news for the UK as a result of Brexit? Investment going to France, high paying jobs lost or relocated, families impacted , the associated financial transactions not occurring in the UK etc Pre-Brexit this was referred to by many as project fear.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 3, 2021 14:12:19 GMT
JPMorgan have 19,000 employees in the UK based in London, Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Bournemouth, where they are the biggest employer in the county. They have decided to move a few hundred* (read the link), to Paris to be in the Eurozone as the EU refuses to allow London to trade in Euroshares, and will not grant equivalence to London without setting regulations, just as they will not give equivalence to Switzerland. * I have heard that many employees are refusing to be transferred. London and Zurich are major world centres for finance. London is almost as large as the whole of the EU economic centres combined. Incidentally JPM rapidly terminated employees working from home when lockdown lifted and insisted they report to work. www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/04/28/jp-morgan-requires-employees-to-return-to-their-offices-by-july-striking-a-blow-to-the-remote-work-trend/ I fail to see how anything you mentioned is good news for the UK as a result of Brexit? Investment going to France, high paying jobs lost or relocated, families impacted , the associated financial transactions not occurring in the UK etc Pre-Brexit this was referred to by many as project fear. The "good news" is that the "up to 1000 jobs transferred" referred to during project fear by the Guardian is not coming to pass, as aren't post of the project fear predictions. www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/03/jp-morgan-jobs-uk-brexit-dublin-frankfurt-luxembourgLondon will continue to be a world financial centre and focuss more on the none EU world economy, which is growing much faster and maturing and in need of financial services. There have been moves afoot in the Eurozone for a decade to try and move dealings in Euro commerce into the Euro zone. Some of this sort of transfer could well have taken place even if the UK had decided to stay in the EU.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 3, 2021 15:36:37 GMT
I fail to see how anything you mentioned is good news for the UK as a result of Brexit? Investment going to France, high paying jobs lost or relocated, families impacted , the associated financial transactions not occurring in the UK etc Pre-Brexit this was referred to by many as project fear. The "good news" is that the "up to 1000 jobs transferred" referred to during project fear by the Guardian is not coming to pass, as aren't post of the project fear predictions. www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/03/jp-morgan-jobs-uk-brexit-dublin-frankfurt-luxembourgLondon will continue to be a world financial centre and focuss more on the none EU world economy, which is growing much faster and maturing and in need of financial services. There have been moves afoot in the Eurozone for a decade to try and move dealings in Euro commerce into the Euro zone. Some of this sort of transfer could well have taken place even if the UK had decided to stay in the EU. Great result... www.standard.co.uk/business/brexit-city-ps1tn-jobs-relocate-brussels-b930095.html
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Post by foster on Jul 3, 2021 15:44:39 GMT
The good news is that it's not quite as bad as predicted ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 3, 2021 17:55:36 GMT
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Post by foster on Jul 3, 2021 21:43:26 GMT
www.bbc.com/news/business-57705253Another big one such as Cadbury and Asda to join the list of British institutions being taken over by the yanks (maybe). Don't have an issue with protectionism tbh.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 4, 2021 7:45:52 GMT
The good news is that it's not quite as bad as predicted ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) To be fair to Mr Coke, he was right when he said that the Guardian's Project Fear prediction that up to 1,000 jobs could be lost didn't come to pass. It was 7,500. So far.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 4, 2021 8:03:31 GMT
The good news is that it's not quite as bad as predicted ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) To be fair to Mr Coke, he was right when he said that the Guardian's Project Fear prediction that up to 1,000 jobs could be lost didn't come to pass. It was 7,500. So far. From the Guardian… Brexit could lead to loss of 100,000 financial services jobs, report warnsNot bad for you - only out by two orders of magnitude.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 4, 2021 8:41:25 GMT
What’s the odd nine hundred and ninety nine thousand got to do with it when you trying to run the country down
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 4, 2021 8:55:43 GMT
Thankyou for posting that link, which I was searching for myself to answer the remainers posts about job losses in the city. It is really quite pathetic how much of the remain camp scratch around for any bit of bad news (and they are little bits relative to the whole picture) to try and prove Brexit was a wrong. The article below is a couple of years old from the Financial Times and puts the job losses in London's finance industry in context. I repeat that London is the main issue for the Guardian and Independent but it actually only represents half the UK financial services business which is growing, notably in Leeds, and will continue to grow with the government opening a Treasury office in Darlington. FT, which I don't think is a Brexit supporter, says: Brexit has failed to deliver a big hit to financial services employment in London, Financial Times research has shown, with international banks maintaining most of their staff since the vote to leave the EU and big asset managers hiring in the UK capital.Initial warnings that tens of thousands of jobs would leave the City as a result of the 2016 Brexit vote have been drastically scaled back. An FT survey of 24 large international banks and asset managers found that the majority had increased their London headcount over the past five years.Twelve overseas-based banks, which employed about 71,000 people in London five years ago, now have a reduced headcount of about 65,000. But most of the decline came from group-wide restructurings at Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank and Nomura.Nine of the world’s largest asset managers have ramped up hiring in the UK since the vote, with their total combined headcount rising 35 per cent to more than 10,000 employees over the period.“There was a certain shift, but the magnitude has been relatively moderate,” said Frédéric Oudéa, chief executive of Société Générale. He said his bank had moved 300 people from London to Paris.French rival BNP Paribas has increased its headcount in the UK. Japan’s MUFG has added a net 400 jobs in London. Goldman Sachs has gone up by about 900 staff in London since the end of 2015, even as it added 500 jobs in the EU, by hiring for its core businesses and new areas including consumer banking and cash management.www.ft.com/content/0c7c2597-4afd-4ade-bc19-02c3bbc53dafThe finance sector will have decided to move some more people/jobs as a result of the EU refusing to grant London equivalence, which is a decision some financial experts thinks will damage the EU as much as it damages London and Switzerland. The fact is the EU financial centres need to access world financial centres, and have chosen to give financial equivalence to New York, which could be more damaging to them than giving equivalence to London or Zurich. It seems strange to me that the EU Commission appear to want to be a world power and a bulwark for peace, democracy, and economic strength and yet they function by bullying countries like Greenland, Norway, Switzerland and try to bully the UK, and are creating a military force, but agree investment deal with China (ratification suspended due to China's treatment of its Uyghur population), increase dependence on Russia for energy, and get into bed with the Americans on financial equivalence. www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3136455/china-eu-investment-deal-huge-step-right-direction-europeanPublic opinion has stalled the deal with China, and maybe it will stall the use of the Russian pipeline (doubtful), but it is quite clear the direction the EU Commission is taking the EU. When will the "penny drop" with EU remainers what sort of organization the EU actually is? energymonitor.ai/tech/networks-grids/why-the-german-greens-want-to-kill-nord-stream-2
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 4, 2021 9:52:11 GMT
Post Brexi Britain's "race to the bottom": Home owners rights to claim for bad builds to be extended: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57645976Germans get 2 years to take legal action and house guarantees are negotiable.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 4, 2021 9:56:39 GMT
DT:
"So that's it then. Any lingering hope the City might have had of remaining Europe's de facto financial capital went up in smoke last week when the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, in effect said that he had given up on trying to secure the mutual standards which would have allowed Square Mile institutions to continue accessing EU markets. By way of alternative, he offered divergence from supposedly onerous EU financial regulation. Not that giving up on Europe came as any great surprise. As soon as Boris Johnson determined that Brexit meant leaving Europe's single market, the City has necessarily been resigned to a likely loss of access. "Making the best of a bad job" was how one City worker described it. So far, the burgeoning array of needy, Brexit-validating trade deals the government has managed to sign off on since leaving the single market has failed to make significant headway on service liberalisation. As it is, there is a feeling of drift and purposelessness behind the headline grabbing PR guff that these days passes for government policy. It doesn't bode well for the future, not well at all".
Blimey, the normally compliant Telegraph is not happy...
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 4, 2021 9:57:35 GMT
Those were Coke's figures Ah, Brexit land, where the loss of 1tn worth of assets and 7,500 jobs is considered a successful validation of the whole thing
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 4, 2021 9:59:30 GMT
What’s the odd nine hundred and ninety nine thousand got to do with it when you trying to run the country down Bit harsh on the govt that, waga, I'm sure they're trying their best, even if the outcome is as you suggest
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 4, 2021 10:14:51 GMT
www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/07/04/shortage-lorry-drivers-raises-spectre-empty-shelves/"With more than a quarter of the UK's food coming from the EU, many corner shops are already reporting shortages and experts begin to worrying about Christmas. Dairy giant Arla, Evian, Volvic and Haribo have all admitted they haven't been able to dispatch orders. Some local authorities are reporting they haven't been able to fulfil their contractual obligations to collect waste. Haulage firms in the UK have been supported by 60,000 eastern European drivers, but many have returned home during the pandemic and Brexit has made it difficult for them to return. One of the proposed solutions is to relax regulations around driver hours, a move not supported by the Road Haulage Association who described it as creating a road safety risk." More knocking the country no doubt, whereas this is just reporting the reality of pandemic Brexit Britain. I wonder if Boris will backtrack on all the immigration bollocks that was so effective during the referendum. Nothing if not ironic how Brexit and the pandemic have shown the value of these immigrants...!
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 4, 2021 10:27:58 GMT
www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/07/04/shortage-lorry-drivers-raises-spectre-empty-shelves/"With more than a quarter of the UK's food coming from the EU, many corner shops are already reporting shortages and experts begin to worrying about Christmas. Dairy giant Arla, Evian, Volvic and Haribo have all admitted they haven't been able to dispatch orders. Some local authorities are reporting they haven't been able to fulfil their contractual obligations to collect waste. Haulage firms in the UK have been supported by 60,000 eastern European drivers, but many have returned home during the pandemic and Brexit has made it difficult for them to return. One of the proposed solutions is to relax regulations around driver hours, a move not supported by the Road Haulage Association who described it as creating a road safety risk." More knocking the country no doubt, whereas this is just reporting the reality of pandemic Brexit Britain. I wonder if Boris will backtrack on all the immigration bollocks that was so effective during the referendum. Nothing if not ironic how Brexit and the pandemic have shown the value of these immigrants...! Well as a country with sufficient supply of natural spring water We shouldn’t really be importing bottled water And as for haribo the less of them in the country can’t do the Health of children any harm
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Post by 4372 on Jul 4, 2021 12:22:49 GMT
Post Brexi Britain's "race to the bottom": Home owners rights to claim for bad builds to be extended: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57645976Germans get 2 years to take legal action and house guarantees are negotiable. Apart from inside your own head,how does this story relate to Brexit? Are you saying it could not happen if the UK was in the EU? Also, it is a story about something that might or might not happen. Better to wait until it does. Sounds almost desperate.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 4, 2021 13:02:53 GMT
Those were Coke's figures Ah, Brexit land, where the loss of 1tn worth of assets and 7,500 jobs is considered a successful validation of the whole thing But not 100,000. You go and have a walk over the 7,500 though. That sort of thing seems to turn you on.
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Post by neworleanstokie on Jul 4, 2021 13:27:13 GMT
I fail to see how anything you mentioned is good news for the UK as a result of Brexit? Investment going to France, high paying jobs lost or relocated, families impacted , the associated financial transactions not occurring in the UK etc Pre-Brexit this was referred to by many as project fear. The "good news" is that the "up to 1000 jobs transferred" referred to during project fear by the Guardian is not coming to pass, as aren't post of the project fear predictions. www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/03/jp-morgan-jobs-uk-brexit-dublin-frankfurt-luxembourgLondon will continue to be a world financial centre and focuss more on the none EU world economy, which is growing much faster and maturing and in need of financial services. There have been moves afoot in the Eurozone for a decade to try and move dealings in Euro commerce into the Euro zone. Some of this sort of transfer could well have taken place even if the UK had decided to stay in the EU. So more ... Brexit isn't as bad as it could have been... it was all going south before Brexit.. where are the positives for UK financial services that have come from Brexit??? And do you seriously think the rest of the world isn't already focused on developing markets?!?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 5, 2021 9:20:01 GMT
www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/07/04/shortage-lorry-drivers-raises-spectre-empty-shelves/"With more than a quarter of the UK's food coming from the EU, many corner shops are already reporting shortages and experts begin to worrying about Christmas. Dairy giant Arla, Evian, Volvic and Haribo have all admitted they haven't been able to dispatch orders. Some local authorities are reporting they haven't been able to fulfil their contractual obligations to collect waste. Haulage firms in the UK have been supported by 60,000 eastern European drivers, but many have returned home during the pandemic and Brexit has made it difficult for them to return. One of the proposed solutions is to relax regulations around driver hours, a move not supported by the Road Haulage Association who described it as creating a road safety risk." More knocking the country no doubt, whereas this is just reporting the reality of pandemic Brexit Britain. I wonder if Boris will backtrack on all the immigration bollocks that was so effective during the referendum. Nothing if not ironic how Brexit and the pandemic have shown the value of these immigrants...! Brexit is only one of the challenges to the haulage industry, the recent IR35 tax regulation has been disastrous. There is a real crisis that will lead to constant empty shelves mark my words. There's a massive backlog of new drivers waiting for tests and a huge shortage of drivers ranging between 40,000-80,000 depending on which articles you read. You're lucky if you make 2 or 3% margin on some contracts so the only way of driving up wages to attract people into the industry would be if it's funded by the large retailers and manufacturers, ultimately that means all of us paying more at the tills.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 5, 2021 9:51:01 GMT
www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/07/04/shortage-lorry-drivers-raises-spectre-empty-shelves/"With more than a quarter of the UK's food coming from the EU, many corner shops are already reporting shortages and experts begin to worrying about Christmas. Dairy giant Arla, Evian, Volvic and Haribo have all admitted they haven't been able to dispatch orders. Some local authorities are reporting they haven't been able to fulfil their contractual obligations to collect waste. Haulage firms in the UK have been supported by 60,000 eastern European drivers, but many have returned home during the pandemic and Brexit has made it difficult for them to return. One of the proposed solutions is to relax regulations around driver hours, a move not supported by the Road Haulage Association who described it as creating a road safety risk." More knocking the country no doubt, whereas this is just reporting the reality of pandemic Brexit Britain. I wonder if Boris will backtrack on all the immigration bollocks that was so effective during the referendum. Nothing if not ironic how Brexit and the pandemic have shown the value of these immigrants...! Brexit is only one of the challenges to the haulage industry, the recent IR35 tax regulation has been disastrous. There is a real crisis that will lead to constant empty shelves mark my words. There's a massive backlog of new drivers waiting for tests and a huge shortage of drivers ranging between 40,000-80,000 depending on which articles you read. You're lucky if you make 2 or 3% margin on some contracts so the only way of driving up wages to attract people into the industry would be if it's funded by the large retailers and manufacturers, ultimately that means all of us paying more at the tills. Wow. That’s interesting and troubling. I was aware of the IR35 change which seemed to be a reasonable attempt to stop some large companies and certain highly paid employees avoiding paying tax, particularly affecting the BBC as I recall. I was not aware of the wider impacts. Is this one of those well intentioned but poorly thought through actions that creates more problems than it solves?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 5, 2021 10:08:42 GMT
Brexit is only one of the challenges to the haulage industry, the recent IR35 tax regulation has been disastrous. There is a real crisis that will lead to constant empty shelves mark my words. There's a massive backlog of new drivers waiting for tests and a huge shortage of drivers ranging between 40,000-80,000 depending on which articles you read. You're lucky if you make 2 or 3% margin on some contracts so the only way of driving up wages to attract people into the industry would be if it's funded by the large retailers and manufacturers, ultimately that means all of us paying more at the tills. Wow. That’s interesting and troubling. I was aware of the IR35 change which seemed to be a reasonable attempt to stop some large companies and certain highly paid employees avoiding paying tax, particularly affecting the BBC as I recall. I was not aware of the wider impacts. Is this one of those well intentioned but poorly thought through actions that creates more problems than it solves? I think so, but on the back of Brexit and Covid it should have been delayed indefinitely. People will walk around their supermarket, see gaps on the shelves and automatically think "Brexit" when actually the reality is that that particular product is sat in a trailer back in a retail distribution centre somewhere with no available driver to deliver it because of the recent IR35 challenges......
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 5, 2021 12:06:25 GMT
Where have all the imports from the EU gone? Daily Telegraph
"Up until now much of the focus has been on the problems businesses have faced selling their products to the continent but, after decades of frictionless trade, imports are also feeling the squeeze. They remain below late 2020 and pre-pandemic levels with a shortfall likely to be evident in the figures for May. Some Brexiteers hoped the UK's exit from the EU would involve a tilt to imports from the wider world, with companies looking beyond the bloc as they build supply chains. But it appears that a sizeable chunk of imports from the EU have disappeared and not been replaced. The issues are particularly notable because many checks will only come into effect over the coming year. Thomas Sampson of the LSE says "There are clearly still frictions that exist. But it is slightly surprising to see such a fast drop off, given that we haven't actually seen the customs border come into place on the UK side yet". A crisis is building up over customs, leading experts to warn of a looming onslaught of red tape [which Brexit was supposed to eliminate]. Ann Jersewska, an independent customs consultant, warns of a looming wave of non-compliance. "Things are tough, and only likely to get tougher, as further controls come into effect. If you do want to be a serious, trading, global Britain, you need to know what's happening on your borders...this is already a massive problem, and it's going to be a massive problem going forward".
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 5, 2021 13:07:43 GMT
Where have all the imports from the EU gone? Daily Telegraph "Up until now much of the focus has been on the problems businesses have faced selling their products to the continent but, after decades of frictionless trade, imports are also feeling the squeeze. They remain below late 2020 and pre-pandemic levels with a shortfall likely to be evident in the figures for May. Some Brexiteers hoped the UK's exit from the EU would involve a tilt to imports from the wider world, with companies looking beyond the bloc as they build supply chains. But it appears that a sizeable chunk of imports from the EU have disappeared and not been replaced. The issues are particularly notable because many checks will only come into effect over the coming year. Thomas Sampson of the LSE says "There are clearly still frictions that exist. But it is slightly surprising to see such a fast drop off, given that we haven't actually seen the customs border come into place on the UK side yet". A crisis is building up over customs, leading experts to warn of a looming onslaught of red tape [which Brexit was supposed to eliminate]. Ann Jersewska, an independent customs consultant, warns of a looming wave of non-compliance. "Things are tough, and only likely to get tougher, as further controls come into effect. If you do want to be a serious, trading, global Britain, you need to know what's happening on your borders...this is already a massive problem, and it's going to be a massive problem going forward". I can’t believe you missed out sharing this story… Post-Brexit rebound: London muscles out Amsterdam to reclaim trading top spotBloody Brexit. Fucking disaster.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 5, 2021 14:01:21 GMT
The "good news" is that the "up to 1000 jobs transferred" referred to during project fear by the Guardian is not coming to pass, as aren't post of the project fear predictions. www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/03/jp-morgan-jobs-uk-brexit-dublin-frankfurt-luxembourgLondon will continue to be a world financial centre and focuss more on the none EU world economy, which is growing much faster and maturing and in need of financial services. There have been moves afoot in the Eurozone for a decade to try and move dealings in Euro commerce into the Euro zone. Some of this sort of transfer could well have taken place even if the UK had decided to stay in the EU. So more ... Brexit isn't as bad as it could have been... it was all going south before Brexit.. where are the positives for UK financial services that have come from Brexit??? And do you seriously think the rest of the world isn't already focused on developing markets?!? Taking your first point first, there are few if any Brexiteers who argued that leaving the EU would lead to an immediate improvement in trading or the economy; those are longer term benefits that will accrue in time as the UK maximises trading with the RoW. (see below) It is remainers that claimed leaving the EU (even voting to leave the EU) would lead to economic recession, unemployment, etc. including 100,000 jobs lost in the financial services industry. Brexiteers are merely pointing out that actual job losses due to Brexit are a much much smaller number. Clearly things would have been better had the EU chosen to grant financial equivalence to the UK and not the USA, a decision that I believe they will live to regret. Without the equivalence to ease cross-border dealing, there was an immediate shift of €6.5billion (£5.7bn) of deals to the EU when the Brexit transition period came to an end at the end of last year. €6.5billion (£5.7bn) in daily trading volumes in EU equity trading switching from London translates into maybe £50million (€57m) in annual revenues, max £5million (€5.7m) in lost tax to the Exchequer, which is hardly earth shattering. I am not being complacent as there will be more losses of financial services to the Euro block as time goes on, but hopefully the tide is already turning: www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/london-reclaims-top-share-trading-spot-from-amsterdam-1.4609855The positive for me from Brexit on financial services is that since the EU do not wish to make an agreement, the UK being sovereign, is now free to set its own rulebook; we are a single state with our own currency and central bank cannot be taken advantage of others. Most importantly if the people don’t like the rulebook they can elect a government empowered to change any law, that is the British "constitution". Whereas it is virtually impossible for the people of Europe to change EU law. As to your second point, of course not. Even the EU concedes that the vast majority (90%) of future world growth will be outside of Europe, which may be an under estimate on their part. www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.htmlConsequently the EU has been seeking to make trade agreements with the rest of the world for many years. But it is a painfully slow process for them as they try to negotiate extremely favourable terms to protect EU commerce, resulting in not free trade, much agreements including tariffs and quotas. Plus they have to consult with all member countries which takes ages to obtain consensus. The EU agreement with Canada took many years to negotiate, There were strong objections from France and Belgium during its negotiation, which although concluded has still not been ratified by many member countries. Conversely independent countries like the USA, China, etc. can move faster. The UK came to a rapid agreement with Canada to roll over the EU agreement and make a joint commitment by both sides to agree a mutually better deal by the end of this year. The EU has created a huge red tape barrier to trade around itself with the customs union, that actually inhibits trade with the rest of the world. Many businesses do not find it worth while trading with the EU and will be better off focussing on the RoW. But this will take time to evolve. www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-57696461
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Post by neworleanstokie on Jul 5, 2021 14:53:48 GMT
So more ... Brexit isn't as bad as it could have been... it was all going south before Brexit.. where are the positives for UK financial services that have come from Brexit??? And do you seriously think the rest of the world isn't already focused on developing markets?!? Taking your first point first, there are few if any Brexiteers who argued that leaving the EU would lead to an immediate improvement in trading or the economy; those are longer term benefits that will accrue in time as the UK maximises trading with the RoW. (see below) It is remainers that claimed leaving the EU (even voting to leave the EU) would lead to economic recession, unemployment, etc. including 100,000 jobs lost in the financial services industry. Brexiteers are merely pointing out that actual job losses due to Brexit are a much much smaller number. Clearly things would have been better had the EU chosen to grant financial equivalence to the UK and not the USA, a decision that I believe they will live to regret. Without the equivalence to ease cross-border dealing, there was an immediate shift of €6.5billion (£5.7bn) of deals to the EU when the Brexit transition period came to an end at the end of last year. €6.5billion (£5.7bn) in daily trading volumes in EU equity trading switching from London translates into maybe £50million (€57m) in annual revenues, max £5million (€5.7m) in lost tax to the Exchequer, which is hardly earth shattering. I am not being complacent as there will be more losses of financial services to the Euro block as time goes on, but hopefully the tide is already turning: www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/london-reclaims-top-share-trading-spot-from-amsterdam-1.4609855The positive for me from Brexit on financial services is that since the EU do not wish to make an agreement, the UK being sovereign, is now free to set its own rulebook; we are a single state with our own currency and central bank cannot be taken advantage of others. Most importantly if the people don’t like the rulebook they can elect a government empowered to change any law, that is the British "constitution". Whereas it is virtually impossible for the people of Europe to change EU law. As to your second point, of course not. Even the EU concedes that the vast majority (90%) of future world growth will be outside of Europe, which may be an under estimate on their part. www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.htmlConsequently the EU has been seeking to make trade agreements with the rest of the world for many years. But it is a painfully slow process for them as they try to negotiate extremely favourable terms to protect EU commerce, resulting in not free trade, much agreements including tariffs and quotas. Plus they have to consult with all member countries which takes ages to obtain consensus. The EU agreement with Canada took many years to negotiate, There were strong objections from France and Belgium during its negotiation, which although concluded has still not been ratified by many member countries. Conversely independent countries like the USA, China, etc. can move faster. The UK came to a rapid agreement with Canada to roll over the EU agreement and make a joint commitment by both sides to agree a mutually better deal by the end of this year. The EU has created a huge red tape barrier to trade around itself with the customs union, that actually inhibits trade with the rest of the world. Many businesses do not find it worth while trading with the EU and will be better off focussing on the RoW. But this will take time to evolve. www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-57696461"there are few if any Brexiteers who argued that leaving the EU would lead to an immediate improvement in trading or the economy;".. seriously? there were numerous saying exactly that, especially on this board! I appreciate the detail of your post but like your comment about "emerging markets" your position has more holes in it than a piece of Swiss cheese..
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Post by foster on Jul 5, 2021 16:47:20 GMT
Taking your first point first, there are few if any Brexiteers who argued that leaving the EU would lead to an immediate improvement in trading or the economy; those are longer term benefits that will accrue in time as the UK maximises trading with the RoW. (see below) It is remainers that claimed leaving the EU (even voting to leave the EU) would lead to economic recession, unemployment, etc. including 100,000 jobs lost in the financial services industry. Brexiteers are merely pointing out that actual job losses due to Brexit are a much much smaller number. Clearly things would have been better had the EU chosen to grant financial equivalence to the UK and not the USA, a decision that I believe they will live to regret. Without the equivalence to ease cross-border dealing, there was an immediate shift of €6.5billion (£5.7bn) of deals to the EU when the Brexit transition period came to an end at the end of last year. €6.5billion (£5.7bn) in daily trading volumes in EU equity trading switching from London translates into maybe £50million (€57m) in annual revenues, max £5million (€5.7m) in lost tax to the Exchequer, which is hardly earth shattering. I am not being complacent as there will be more losses of financial services to the Euro block as time goes on, but hopefully the tide is already turning: www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/london-reclaims-top-share-trading-spot-from-amsterdam-1.4609855The positive for me from Brexit on financial services is that since the EU do not wish to make an agreement, the UK being sovereign, is now free to set its own rulebook; we are a single state with our own currency and central bank cannot be taken advantage of others. Most importantly if the people don’t like the rulebook they can elect a government empowered to change any law, that is the British "constitution". Whereas it is virtually impossible for the people of Europe to change EU law. As to your second point, of course not. Even the EU concedes that the vast majority (90%) of future world growth will be outside of Europe, which may be an under estimate on their part. www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.htmlConsequently the EU has been seeking to make trade agreements with the rest of the world for many years. But it is a painfully slow process for them as they try to negotiate extremely favourable terms to protect EU commerce, resulting in not free trade, much agreements including tariffs and quotas. Plus they have to consult with all member countries which takes ages to obtain consensus. The EU agreement with Canada took many years to negotiate, There were strong objections from France and Belgium during its negotiation, which although concluded has still not been ratified by many member countries. Conversely independent countries like the USA, China, etc. can move faster. The UK came to a rapid agreement with Canada to roll over the EU agreement and make a joint commitment by both sides to agree a mutually better deal by the end of this year. The EU has created a huge red tape barrier to trade around itself with the customs union, that actually inhibits trade with the rest of the world. Many businesses do not find it worth while trading with the EU and will be better off focussing on the RoW. But this will take time to evolve. www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-57696461"there are few if any Brexiteers who argued that leaving the EU would lead to an immediate improvement in trading or the economy;".. seriously? there were numerous saying exactly that, especially on this board! I appreciate the detail of your post but like your comment about "emerging markets" your position has more holes in it than a piece of Swiss cheese.. He also keeps banging on about how emerging markets are outpacing the EU in terms of growth %, yet doesn't grasp that's it's all relative. Well, I think he does, but that it's just a weak attempt to pull the wool over peoples eyes. A bit like his attempt last week of saying the car industry is a whopping '30x' that of the fishing industry, which itself represents significantly less than 1% of GDP. The car industry itself fits somewhere in the 7% manufacturing GDP. He loves throwing in home-made stats that might look impressive on the face of it, but when you scratch below the surface they're nothing but snippits aimed at misleading the lesser informed.
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