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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 29, 2021 9:03:02 GMT
Of course they have been promised government help, this ludicrous net zero policy requires the uk to have a number of these battery plants to be able to produce enough electric cars without them you would see the end of car production in the uk so no its not peanuts. The UK car industry is peanuts and the only ridiculous thing about the net zero target is that it'll take so long. You can really be quite a nasty bitter poster The car industry may be a small amount of gdp But to hundreds of thousands of people It is food in their children’s stomachs and roofs over there heads Maybe one benefit of brexit may well be the resurgence in manufacturing rather than relying on the bitter and twisted key pressing paper clip shuffling service industry
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 29, 2021 10:02:05 GMT
Of course they have been promised government help, this ludicrous net zero policy requires the uk to have a number of these battery plants to be able to produce enough electric cars without them you would see the end of car production in the uk so no its not peanuts. The UK car industry is peanuts and the only ridiculous thing about the net zero target is that it'll take so long. Peanuts?
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Post by foster on Jun 29, 2021 10:15:54 GMT
The UK car industry is peanuts and the only ridiculous thing about the net zero target is that it'll take so long. You can really be quite a nasty bitter poster The car industry may be a small amount of gdp But to hundreds of thousands of people It is food in their children’s stomachs and roofs over there heads Maybe one benefit of brexit may well be the resurgence in manufacturing rather than relying on the bitter and twisted key pressing paper clip shuffling service industry Don't try to make this personal. I'm just pragmatic and don't get over excited by news, both good or bad. As for your food in childrens stomach comment. Totally uncalled for and another one of your attempts at trying to paint an inaccurate picture of a poster you disagree with. Had you actually bothered to read many of my previous posts on here then you'd know I've repeatedly stated my displeasure at the state of poverty in the UK.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 29, 2021 10:20:33 GMT
Of course they have been promised government help, this ludicrous net zero policy requires the uk to have a number of these battery plants to be able to produce enough electric cars without them you would see the end of car production in the uk so no its not peanuts. The UK car industry is peanuts and the only ridiculous thing about the net zero target is that it'll take so long. This "peanuts industry" is 30 times larger than the UK fishing industry. www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/uk-automotive/#:~:text=The%20UK%20automotive%20industry%20is,value%20to%20the%20UK%20economy. Let yet another industry go to the wall like car manufacturing and others follow. For example Port Talbot steel works has lots of customers but if it lost the car industry customers, it would cease to be economically viable. You can't keep a giant steelworks going supplying steel for cans and bottle tops! As you correctly pointed out in a post above, I am acutely conscious of how German industry have formed unofficial cartels between each other with long term investments and supply agreements to ensure the long term sustainability of German industry and shut out foreign competition. That way they can dominate the large German market and sell very expensive products to the rest of the world at marginal cost, having covered all their capital and other major overheads. Apart from car production, the production of batteries is becoming a major world issue as they power IT equipment, hand tools, mobile machinery like vacuum cleaners and garden tools, etc. This is leading to a world shortage of lithium, the extraction of which is a major environmental issue*. The UK needs to create its own battery industry and not be so dependant on China. Fortunately just as the UK has been blessed with huge natural resources like fertile land, water, stone, iron, copper, zinc, coal, wood, gold, lead, limestone (calcium and magnesium), tin, slate, clay, potash, salt, and oil down the ages, all of which have brought peoples to these islands since the Celts and Romans, today we are blessed with our own supply of lithium. www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/first-lithium-carbonate-uk-produced-4911779* www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environment-impact
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Post by foster on Jun 29, 2021 10:22:07 GMT
The UK car industry is peanuts and the only ridiculous thing about the net zero target is that it'll take so long. Peanuts? "Services are the largest part of the economy – in 2019, they accounted for 79% of output, production for 13%, construction for 7% and agriculture for 1%. Service sector output grew by 3.4% in April 2021. It is 4.1% lower than it was in February 2020." Comparatively speaking. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02787/
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 29, 2021 10:31:57 GMT
"Services are the largest part of the economy – in 2019, they accounted for 79% of output, production for 13%, construction for 7% and agriculture for 1%. Service sector output grew by 3.4% in April 2021. It is 4.1% lower than it was in February 2020." Comparatively speaking. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02787/But not peanuts.
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Post by foster on Jun 29, 2021 10:33:10 GMT
"Services are the largest part of the economy – in 2019, they accounted for 79% of output, production for 13%, construction for 7% and agriculture for 1%. Service sector output grew by 3.4% in April 2021. It is 4.1% lower than it was in February 2020." Comparatively speaking. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02787/But not peanuts. I never said the 'entire' car or manufacturing industry was did I.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 29, 2021 10:39:39 GMT
"Services are the largest part of the economy – in 2019, they accounted for 79% of output, production for 13%, construction for 7% and agriculture for 1%. Service sector output grew by 3.4% in April 2021. It is 4.1% lower than it was in February 2020." Comparatively speaking. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02787/Absolutely correct. We have exported the bulk of our manufacturing to the far East, plus a large part of food processing to the EU. Services represents the lion's share of our exports today, but since exports today are higher than they were of the day of the referendum, I suspect the services industry isn't on its uppers just yet. Some of the major sectors of the services industry are of course tourism, catering, and entertainment, where despite what Elton John might think, the pandemic has had a far bigger adverse impact that Brexit. Financial services have suffered from the EU taking back Euro share trading, but again it is just a fraction of the massive financial services industry. People go on and on about London being a world financial centre, but are unaware that London accounts for just half the financial services of the UK. Financial services are all over the UK, probably in every high street, with major financial centres in Leeds and Manchester. I would suggest we wait until tourism, catering, pubs, entertainment venues, etc. are back to normal before taking a sounding of the effect of Brexit on the services industry.
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Post by Kilo on Jun 29, 2021 11:34:21 GMT
I never said the 'entire' car or manufacturing industry was did I. "The UK car industry is peanuts" - It was obvious I was only talking about that company in Kent that makes windscreen wipers for the Reliant Robin
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 29, 2021 12:17:46 GMT
Of course they have been promised government help, this ludicrous net zero policy requires the uk to have a number of these battery plants to be able to produce enough electric cars without them you would see the end of car production in the uk so no its not peanuts. The UK car industry is peanuts and the only ridiculous thing about the net zero target is that it'll take so long. I think you have been corrected on the first part, as for net zero have you stopped eating meat or flying or got rid of your gas bolier yet ?
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Post by Kilo on Jun 29, 2021 18:25:11 GMT
See, never beaten the German's in a major tournament whilst being a member, best decision ever made ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/wMWjB17JNiCK5pUPtfmL.gif)
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Post by 4372 on Jun 29, 2021 20:06:23 GMT
See, never beaten the German's in a major tournament whilst being a member, best decision ever made ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/wMWjB17JNiCK5pUPtfmL.gif) According to Wikipedia,rather than my own memory, England played Germany in the group stage of the 2000 Euros at Charleroi. Enlandwon1-0 with a goal by Shearer.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 30, 2021 8:46:34 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 30, 2021 12:12:31 GMT
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Post by foster on Jun 30, 2021 12:51:07 GMT
Can't you just copy/paste the text for sites that require people to register.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 30, 2021 15:46:06 GMT
Can't you just copy/paste the text for sites that require people to register. OK "Britain lost 18,000 millionaires last year as the pandemic battered financial markets, while the rest of Europe's rich grew their fortunes. At the same time their total wealth fell 1pc as Britain's deepest recession for 300 years trashed asset values. By contrast, almost every other nation in CapGemini's World Wealth Report ended the year with more high-net worth individuals because their stock markets boomed after the initial Covid crunch. Cliff Evans, head of digital banking at CapGemini said that Britain suffered more than other countries as 9.9pc was wiped off GDP last year. British stocks which are more focused in industries such as mining, finance and energy have failed to recover their pre-Covid levels, even as equities across much of the globe have roared back. The FTSE is 8pc lower than in Jan 2020. By contrast, the S&P500 in the US is up more than 25pc from its pre-Covid levels and even the Eurostoxx is up 6pc on pre pandemic highs, as the continent's economies suffered less than the UK's." People will no doubt ask what is the relevance to Brexit. Well, firstly, clearly the EU is not literally going up in flames! And second, it seems a bit strange that such a 'deadbeat bunch' of nations which couldn't even organise a vaccine rollout as well as we did, still managed to out-perform us economically. Clearly, something else might be having an impact.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 30, 2021 16:22:51 GMT
Can't you just copy/paste the text for sites that require people to register. No, you can’t. Check the rules of the forum: Please post links to external website stories as these are likely copyright. Copied and pasted text may be removed.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 30, 2021 22:39:55 GMT
With respect,you don't get to write the history of Brexit as a one-sided story. There are many people who challenge the ideas behind Brexit, and they have every right,in a democracy,to put their views forward. Remember again that only 37% of voters voted for this idea. It is more than admirable that some people continue to prefer that GB is inside the EU. I seem to remember that Farage said that a 52/48 split would mean that Brexit is unfinished business. It is not a scare story to say that exports to the EU were bound to fall after Brexit, if you acknowledge as you do that this is actually happening; that for most people would count as a fact. Similarly, I don't understand the point you are making about lorry drivers-either there is a shortage or there isn't. Your point about shortage of labour elsewhere is not relevant. Harsh truth is you have been sucked into a pit of propaganda, and you have only a myopic view of the relationship between GB and the EU.The language you use demonstrates a clear anti-EU bias, you could even say that you are belittling the greatest force for peace and prosperity in Europe for many years. Yesterday in France the right wing failed to gain any power, even though they also hold anti-EU views. The Dutch right wing leader also failed to win an election, and the Italian right wing nonentity lost office last year. There is little anti-EU sentiment on the continent,despite the drivel people posted on here during the Brexit campaign. Most people prefer to get on with their lives, achieving prosperity, progress and peace in harmony with each other.There is no doubt that some people who voted for Brexit did so for xenophobic, jingoistic reasons. Just look at some of the reports about the feelings of immigrants about how they felt as the referendum campaign progressed. It is hard to understand why some Brexiteers are so anti the EU,now the UK has left, and when the EU clearly is not a problem for most EU citizens. You are right though,the UK is a sovereign nation-just like France,Germany, Italy,-the list is almost endless. Or on second thoughts, it could be that you have swallowed an extreme view about the nature of sovereignty. Clearly the UK is not ahead of the EU in all aspects since Brexit. You again need to be reminded that there was nothing about being inside the EU that forced GB to work with the EU vaccine procurement programme, in the same way that being part of the EU did not force GB adopt the Euro, or enter the Schengen arrangements. You are trying to re-write history,which is dangerous, and has to be challenged. The UK has had an excellent vaccine initiative, and a very poor response to other aspects of the Pandemic, don't forget. And as you acknowledge,there have been issues with fishing and Northern Ireland, which could yet bring trouble to the province. I was going to let your post pass as we clearly have disparate views on the meaning of democracy and sovereignty, and the need for a European authority to maintain peace. Note, today's agreement with Germany: www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/30/uk-and-germany-sign-post-brexit-defence-and-foreign-policy-declarationIn did say " I rest my case", but since some people like your post I feel compelled to correct the misquotations/misinterpretations you have made regarding my initial post, which I have appended below. In your second paragraph you said: " It is not a scare story to say that exports to the EU were bound to fall after Brexit, if you acknowledge as you do that this is actually happening; that for most people would count as a fact."
Where in my post did I say that it was a scare story that exports to the EU were bound to fall? I in fact said it was bound to happen. It is a fact that exports fell after 1st January, just as it is also facts that: 1. Exports probably dropped in January mainly because of the stockpiling that was taking place towards the end of 2020 in anticipation of there being no trade deal (remember the lorry queues?). 2. Exports to the EU are recovering each month, as exporters get used to the red tape. 3. Total UK exports today are actually higher than they were at the time of the referendum. 4. Exports of goods to the EU in April were the highest month since the start of the pandemic, except for December 2020 when exporters were stock building to beat a possible no deal. (I accept that monthly figures are highly erratic even in normal times. Exports of services in April are still unavailable.) I shall not be surprised if exports to the EU do not fully recover to pre-pandemic times for a long time, due to the red tape barriers. Time will tell. Incidentally, great play has been made of the fact that UK exports to the EU have dropped, but there has hardly been any mention of the drop in imports to the UK from the EU. In fact, on balance, the UK negative trade gap with the EU so far this year has reduced as a result of these drops in trade in both directions. I have no idea how long that will last but I mention it simply because of the great play Brexit critics have made about the reduction UK exports to the EU. Naturally I hope the UK will be more self sufficient in future, spread our risk, and be less dependant of the EU for food particularly. You also say in your second paragraph that you " don't understand the point you are making about lorry drivers". The point I was trying to make is there are reports of shortages of personnel in the whole of the economy. Homeserve are crying out for tradespeople, there are reports of the need for agricultural and horticultural people, delivery drivers, catering and entertainment, etc. As we come out off the pandemic, in May, the demand for workers rose at its fastest rate in May for more than 23 years, according to a KPMG survey. The UK Shortage Occupation list comprises of 30 jobs, blaming Brexit is silly. but remainers are blaming almost every problem the country faces on Brexit. Regarding your third paragraph, I can only refer you to my previous posts over recent years. I have spelt out my history and experience repeatedly only to be told it is fiction. I am a convert to Brexit having been a passionate European in the 70s and voted to remain in the EEC. I have seen the changes in Europe close up over the subsequent 30 years and changed my opinion. Yes I am anti EU, but still correspond with Europeans I worked with, buy EU products, and would love that Europe had a proper free trade association.* I do not want a parliament, Court, etc. and want a very much slimmed down executive, not the 30,000 people on the gravy train in Brussels. I agree most people just want to get on with their lives, and are like my brother-in-law, sick and tired of Brexit and just want to move on. *Edit 1.7.21: This is a sort of compromise that might be acceptable: euobserver.com/opinion/152309I want the same sort of sovereignty as USA, Canada, Australia, India, Japan, etc. if you consider that extreme. I did not post on this MB on Brexit till after the referendum which I expected would result in a remain victory. But having seen Brexit win, I became infuriated by the actions of the establishment to undermine and overturn the will of the people, including former prime ministers. Hence my passion for the Brexit cause. Regarding your last paragraph, where did I say the UK was ahead of the EU " in all aspects since Brexit"? I simply gave four examples where the UK have made better progress since leaving the EU than the EU. I welcome the EU's announcement this week to modify the CAP, time will tell whether the future British model for agriculture will be better or worse then the EU model in terms of quality of farming, animal welfare, and protection of the habitat and nature conservation. As for fishing, the main issue is over fishing, but not by British fishermen. Fishing for many species needs to be reduced to allow stocks to recover. Whilst the UK has been progressing trade agreements with none EU countries, the EU has signed an Investment Agreement with China, which it has now suspended due to China's human rights infringements, moves closer to greater dependence on Russia for gas, and reduces animal feed standards. Appendix: Initial post by mrcoke
Apologies if my comment was misplaced in your case but it has been a consistent theme of remainers to belittle the achievements of the UK, belittle the UK's standing in the world, and predict doom and gloom and economic disaster as a consequence of the decision to leave the EU. The UK left the customs union on 1st January and there have been constant references to a decline in exports to the EU. That was obviously going to happen, but parts of the media and remainers on this MB post links and pastes as though it is a disaster, when the reality is the UK is exporting more today, when we are still not fully out of a pandemic, than we were at the time of the referendum. The scare stories continue unabated, the latest being dire predictions of empty shop shelves (a recipe for panic buying) due to a shortage of lorry drivers. There is a shortage of all skilled jobs I suspect; employment in the UK today is higher than it was at the time of the referendum. Almost all employers are wanting to take on staff as commerce is growing rapidly. Time and again remainers scares have been proved wrong, such as collapse in the economy, unemployment, millions of people leaving, rampant inflation, food shortages, collapse of the Health Service, etc. None of these have happened despite suffering a pandemic, and the obdurate attitude of the EU and some European heads if state. Nissan closing is a prime example. As for snide childish remarks, I think remainers are probably sensitive to hearing the the harsh truth. Apart from a few areas such as Northern Ireland, fishing, and exporting fresh food, Brexit has not delivered the economic collapse remainers predicted. Unemployment is low, £ stable, FTSE sound, etc. It is remainers who have resorted to comments about leavers being, racist, xenophobic, anti-Europe, little Britons, etc. Above all we are a sovereign nation again like USA, Japan, Canada, India, - the list is almost endless. Of course there are obvious improvements can be made. Mistakes have been made and opportunities missed. There is always scope for improvement. Much of what has been achieved has been excellent. Take for example trade agreements. Remainers said it could take a year or more to get a trade agreement with the EU, if at all. It would take years to renegotiate all the existing EU trade agreements with other countries. It would take years to negotiate new trade agreements. The agreements would not be as good as EU agreements because "little Britain" is not as strong as the EU. All has been proved incorrect. The UK now has more trade agreements than the EU, better in the case of Japan, and a joint commitment to improve the Canada agreement. Since leaving the EU we are "ahead" of the EU in plans to reform agriculture (CAP), environment legislation (ban on petrol and diesel cars) , health (vaccination programme), VAT on women's sanitary products, with financial control reforms going through Parliament. Obviously much more needs to be done, particularly on environment and health. I rest my case.
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Post by maxplonk on Jul 1, 2021 9:08:59 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 1, 2021 13:41:13 GMT
To right and whilst we’re at it we can lob some at the steel industry And electronic manufacturing which was allowed to leave the country to Eastern Europe by cheap deals and grants
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 1, 2021 14:33:28 GMT
To right and whilst we’re at it we can lob some at the steel industry And electronic manufacturing which was allowed to leave the country to Eastern Europe by cheap deals and grants Electronic manufacturing, for the most part, went a lot further east. All the way to China and Taiwan.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 1, 2021 14:50:34 GMT
That's about the size of it. Wonder if that slogan would have been quite so effective on the side of a bus?
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 1, 2021 15:40:05 GMT
To right and whilst we’re at it we can lob some at the steel industry And electronic manufacturing which was allowed to leave the country to Eastern Europe by cheap deals and grants Electronic manufacturing, for the most part, went a lot further east. All the way to China and Taiwan. I was more talking about white goods which tended to move to Poland and other Eastern European countries
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 1, 2021 15:41:19 GMT
That's about the size of it. Wonder if that slogan would have been quite so effective on the side of a bus? Do you have a problem with British money being spent creating British jobs
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 1, 2021 16:30:26 GMT
To right and whilst we’re at it we can lob some at the steel industry And electronic manufacturing which was allowed to leave the country to Eastern Europe by cheap deals and grants Port Talbot steelworks have supplied steel to Nissan in the past (I don't know about the present) but I expect this Nissan news will help Port Talbot. The link below, whilst old, talks about a new logistics facility at Middlesbrough which handles trains of steel coil that must come from South Wales. www.automotivelogistics.media/av-dawson-managing-quality-steel-supply-to-nissan-sunderland/13592.articleDawson's role will be to receive large shipments of steel, stock them, break them down in small consignments that are delivered on a "just in time" basis to the Nissan production line. The logistics of a car factory today are quite amazing. For example a man putting the wheels on a car, will only have enough wheel nuts by him that he needs to keep production going. There are no stores, and the next batch of wheel nuts will be on a lorry heading north on the A1M/A19 to be delivered personally by the lorry driver to the man on the production line just in time before his stock runs out. It is amazing to see a gearbox being assembled in one wing of the factory and an engine in another wing and they come together through the conveyor systems to meet at exactly the right time to fit into the right car; every car is made to a bespoke spec for a named customer, whose name is on a plate by the car so each worker knows this car is being build for say Frau Braun in Hamburg. I have been round Nissan a couple of times, and round Jaguar. Jaguar is impressive with fabulous machinery/products, but the organization of Nissan is truly awesome. It has always been in the top 10 of the most efficient car works in the world. Invariably 8 of the top ten efficient cars works in the world are in Japan and South Korea. There is a price to pay by the employees. They are not exceptionally well paid but do get lots of perks like buying a car at cost price. Every employee is expected to help to make the business more efficient all the time, failure to do so and you will not get a pay rise, continued failure and you are out. New starters usually lose a lot of weight very quickly. The workers I have spoken to don't like it, but accept it, and just get on with their jobs. Edit: Good news for steel today. The government has relented and agreed to extend the protection of steel that the EU do: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57678401I was worried that the government would be happy to see steelmaking end to meet zero carbon targets. But for Nissan to sell cars into the EU tariff free, a high proportion of the cars must comprise of product produced in the EU. What I would like to see now is the hold on planning permission lifted on the proposed Cumbria coal mine. So the UK produces its own metallurgical coke, instead of importing coal from Russia, USA, and Australia.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 1, 2021 18:04:47 GMT
Can't you just copy/paste the text for sites that require people to register. OK "Britain lost 18,000 millionaires last year as the pandemic battered financial markets, while the rest of Europe's rich grew their fortunes. At the same time their total wealth fell 1pc as Britain's deepest recession for 300 years trashed asset values. By contrast, almost every other nation in CapGemini's World Wealth Report ended the year with more high-net worth individuals because their stock markets boomed after the initial Covid crunch. Cliff Evans, head of digital banking at CapGemini said that Britain suffered more than other countries as 9.9pc was wiped off GDP last year. British stocks which are more focused in industries such as mining, finance and energy have failed to recover their pre-Covid levels, even as equities across much of the globe have roared back. The FTSE is 8pc lower than in Jan 2020. By contrast, the S&P500 in the US is up more than 25pc from its pre-Covid levels and even the Eurostoxx is up 6pc on pre pandemic highs, as the continent's economies suffered less than the UK's." People will no doubt ask what is the relevance to Brexit. Well, firstly, clearly the EU is not literally going up in flames! And second, it seems a bit strange that such a 'deadbeat bunch' of nations which couldn't even organise a vaccine rollout as well as we did, still managed to out-perform us economically. Clearly, something else might be having an impact.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 1, 2021 18:38:48 GMT
That's about the size of it. Wonder if that slogan would have been quite so effective on the side of a bus? Do you have a problem with British money being spent creating British jobs Does anyone? The point is it doesn't say much for the 'sunlit uplands' if you have to bribe businesses to stay in the country, does it?
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 1, 2021 18:46:16 GMT
Do you have a problem with British money being spent creating British jobs Does anyone? The point is it doesn't say much for the 'sunlit uplands' if you have to bribe businesses to stay in the country, does it? Why it’s worked for the French and the rest of Europe for years And the Irish just do it by tax rates
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 1, 2021 18:50:53 GMT
Does anyone? The point is it doesn't say much for the 'sunlit uplands' if you have to bribe businesses to stay in the country, does it? Why it’s worked for the French and the rest of Europe for years And the Irish just do it by tax rates Clearly nowt stopping us then, was there?
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 1, 2021 18:53:58 GMT
Why it’s worked for the French and the rest of Europe for years And the Irish just do it by tax rates Clearly nowt stopping us then, was there? Yes are unswerving Britishness and wanting to not only play by the rules but also the spirit
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