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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 28, 2021 8:28:24 GMT
Oooh, isn't the EU great. They're giving countries £750 billion of their own money back. Although they do have to pay some of it back to the EU with interest. Sounds a bit like redistribution of wealth doesn't it? Does anyone think that's a bad idea? For rich countries (who can afford it) to give a helping had to poorer countries (who need it). And at the same time improve trade links and vastly reduce historic inter-national friction? How's our friction with local neighbours doing these days!? We have a similar system already in place in this country called taxation (although I accept that the richer you are, the less likely that model apples to you!). Perhaps the EU should've come up with snappier names instead of ERDF and the like to make it more palatable for some folk. Levelling up, maybe? Strikes me as quite a Christian thing to do, encourage the rich to help out the less well off? It has always appeared to me the Christian thing to do would be to help your neighbours without putting impossible conditions on them For example Greece now without doubt the Germans bailed them out But at what cost to the ordinary Greek who elected a government that the Eu made impossible for them to govern In they way they were voted for Or Italy who’s banks were bailed out were they bailed out for the benefit of Italians or to protect German banks and investors oh and of course the euro The officials that run the Eu couldn’t give a flying fuck for the individual citizens It’s the project that must come first |
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Post by foster on Jun 28, 2021 10:42:15 GMT
Sounds a bit like redistribution of wealth doesn't it? Does anyone think that's a bad idea? For rich countries (who can afford it) to give a helping had to poorer countries (who need it). And at the same time improve trade links and vastly reduce historic inter-national friction? How's our friction with local neighbours doing these days!? We have a similar system already in place in this country called taxation (although I accept that the richer you are, the less likely that model apples to you!). Perhaps the EU should've come up with snappier names instead of ERDF and the like to make it more palatable for some folk. Levelling up, maybe? Strikes me as quite a Christian thing to do, encourage the rich to help out the less well off? It has always appeared to me the Christian thing to do would be to help your neighbours without putting impossible conditions on them For example Greece now without doubt the Germans bailed them out But at what cost to the ordinary Greek who elected a government that the Eu made impossible for them to govern In they way they were voted for Or Italy who’s banks were bailed out were they bailed out for the benefit of Italians or to protect German banks and investors oh and of course the euro The officials that run the Eu couldn’t give a flying fuck for the individual citizens It’s the project that must come first Bit rich coming from a Brexiteer who voted to give the poorer EU nations nothing at all. |
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 28, 2021 10:57:53 GMT
I repeat the EU "gives" or redistributes relatively very little wealth. Under the EU Recovery Fund, for most of the finance, huge amounts of money are to be borrowed on the international markets. China will I expect provide a large amount. The money is then lent to countries according to need, the countries most affected by the pandemic receiving the most, with the expectation that it will be paid back at some time in the future, with interest, which happens to be very low presently. A huge risk is that interest rates will rise and the poorer countries that have huge amounts of existing debt will have to find additional funds to finance their pre pandemic debt. What developments are you expecting in Italy, Greece, etc. to pay for the return of those funds? I strongly believe in charity and happy to see the UK the fourth highest country in the world that donates aid, which hopefully goes to those that need it most. borgenproject.org/five-countries-that-give-the-largest-foreign-aid/#:~:text=5%20Countries%20That%20Provide%20the%20Largest%20Foreign%20Aid,4%20The%20United%20Kingdom.%20...%205%20Japan.%20 I continue to maintain that it is discordant, that a country like Croatia has been a net recipient of funds from the EU since joining, and spends money, granted not the EU funds, on buying fighter planes from France. www.bing.com/search?q=buyin+fighter+planes+from+France&cvid=53da387f208444ea934a75260b4d2faf&aqs=edge..69i57.15295j0j4&FORM=ANAB01&PC=U531Clearly, the EU does redistribute funds from richer countries to poorer ones. A cursory glance at the proportions given to various countries will tell you that. Also, if it didn't, why was it such a huge problem for most Brexiteers over the amount we contributed, usually accompanied by the charitable comment that they will just "fritter it away", as you said? Why do you ask for returns from Greece, Italy, etc? As a Christian you've already said you're happy to see money given away without expecting any return. It's just a charitable thing to do if you are a Christian, no? To help out those less well off. Or is Christian giving more conditional than that? If you're bothered about countries like Croatia having military spending while receiving EU cash, you may as well apply that thinking to every EU member! It's equally if not more discordant for countries to receive EU funding while having ever increasing numbers of homeless people or folk having to rely on foodbanks, like we did while a member. That should all get sorted out now, of course, because we're no longer giving £350mill a week to those nations which clearly don't deserve it because they have a military! A cursory glance at the EU budget will tell you that the redistribution of wealth in the EU is paltry. The largest proportion of the EU budget goes to agriculture and fishing, with the largest part of that money going to the richest land owners in the richest countries; France getting the largest amount. The mechanism for redistributing the wealth is regional aid. Again a large amount goes to wealthier countries. For example, the UK got considerable aid for Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Cornwall. But this was effectively giving the UK its own money back as a net financial contributer. Ireland has received substantial regional aid in the past. The very poorest half of the EU countries receive about a quarter of the regional aid budget, which amounts to 10% of the total EU budget. The Euro has been a wealth distribution failure for the EU, leading to full employment and healthy economies for the heart of the EU (France, Germany, Benelux countries) where all the power and administration is based, and high unemployment in a lot of the peripheral countries. Even some Scandinavian countries have higher unemployment than the EU average. www.statista.com/statistics/1115276/unemployment-in-europe-by-country/What will happen in the UK in the future will depend on the the UK governments the British people choose to elect, as they will be free of interference by the EU. Hopefully they will not follow the policy of the present government of reducing foreign aid. Regarding your last paragraph, the UK never received a penny from the EU; it was a net financial contributer for 43 years, totally a trillion pounds in today's value of money. It would have been even more had Thatcher not negotiated a rebate. It was set to increase further had we remained in the EU, and simply a question of time before we list the rebate and forced to join the Euro. It is incongruous to spend tax payers money on arms when we have food banks, but not as bad as tax payers money going to the EU, for them to give aid to Croatia, for Croatia to buy fighter jets from France. |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jun 28, 2021 10:57:55 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 28, 2021 11:08:42 GMT
Clearly, the EU does redistribute funds from richer countries to poorer ones. A cursory glance at the proportions given to various countries will tell you that. Also, if it didn't, why was it such a huge problem for most Brexiteers over the amount we contributed, usually accompanied by the charitable comment that they will just "fritter it away", as you said? Why do you ask for returns from Greece, Italy, etc? As a Christian you've already said you're happy to see money given away without expecting any return. It's just a charitable thing to do if you are a Christian, no? To help out those less well off. Or is Christian giving more conditional than that? If you're bothered about countries like Croatia having military spending while receiving EU cash, you may as well apply that thinking to every EU member! It's equally if not more discordant for countries to receive EU funding while having ever increasing numbers of homeless people or folk having to rely on foodbanks, like we did while a member. That should all get sorted out now, of course, because we're no longer giving £350mill a week to those nations which clearly don't deserve it because they have a military! A cursory glance at the EU budget will tell you that the redistribution of wealth in the EU is paltry. The largest proportion of the EU budget goes to agriculture and fishing, with the largest part of that money going to the richest land owners in the richest countries; France getting the largest amount. The mechanism for redistributing the wealth is regional aid. Again a large amount goes to wealthier countries. For example, the UK got considerable aid for Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Cornwall. But this was effectively giving the UK its own money back as a net financial contributer. Ireland has received substantial regional aid in the past. The very poorest half of the EU countries receive about a quarter of the regional aid budget, which amounts to 10% of the total EU budget. The Euro has been a wealth distribution failure for the EU, leading to full employment and healthy economies for the heart of the EU (France, Germany, Benelux countries) where all the power and administration is based, and high unemployment in a lot of the peripheral countries. Even some Scandinavian countries have higher unemployment than the EU average. www.statista.com/statistics/1115276/unemployment-in-europe-by-country/What will happen in the UK in the future will depend on the the UK governments the British people choose to elect, as they will be free of interference by the EU. Hopefully they will not follow the policy of the present government of reducing foreign aid. Regarding your last paragraph, the UK never received a penny from the EU; it was a net financial contributer for 43 years, totally a trillion pounds in today's value of money. It would have been even more had Thatcher not negotiated a rebate. It was set to increase further had we remained in the EU, and simply a question of time before we list the rebate and forced to join the Euro. It is incongruous to spend tax payers money on arms when we have food banks, but not as bad as tax payers money going to the EU, for them to give aid to Croatia, for Croatia to buy fighter jets from France. The largest share of the EU budget (around 70% for the period 2014-2020) goes to agriculture and regional development. During the period 2014–2020, the share of EU spending on farming is set at 39%. In 1985, 70% was spent on farming. Farming's relatively large share of the EU budget is due to the fact that it is the only policy funded almost entirely from the common budget. This means that EU spending replaces national expenditure to a large extent. The second share of EU spending goes to regional development (34% for the period 2014-2020), with proportionately more going to countries which are poorer. EU funding for regional and social development is an important source for key investment projects. In some EU countries that have otherwise limited means, European funding finances up to 80% of public investment. However, EU regional spending does not just help poorer regions. It invests in every EU country, supporting the economy of the EU as a whole. Sounds like an attempt at wealth redistribution to me. Are you not a fan of it in principle? Do you want to see returns for your money or not, as a Christian? |
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 28, 2021 11:09:38 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 28, 2021 12:32:10 GMT
It has always appeared to me the Christian thing to do would be to help your neighbours without putting impossible conditions on them For example Greece now without doubt the Germans bailed them out But at what cost to the ordinary Greek who elected a government that the Eu made impossible for them to govern In they way they were voted for Or Italy who’s banks were bailed out were they bailed out for the benefit of Italians or to protect German banks and investors oh and of course the euro The officials that run the Eu couldn’t give a flying fuck for the individual citizens It’s the project that must come first Bit rich coming from a Brexiteer who voted to give the poorer EU nations nothing at all. Why would I want to give money to the faux poor in Europe When there’s millions of real poor around the world |
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Post by foster on Jun 28, 2021 12:32:20 GMT
Allowing PAPs now, compared to back in 2001, is not lowering standards. PAPs are now produced at the same level of preparation that makes them fit for human consumption, and evidence since 2001 supports it's use. The wording of the article makes it seem much worse than it actually is, and it's no surprise that some knicker wetters jump on it before actually reading into it more. The UK will follow this without a doubt. Saying that, for people eating all the processed meat shit like sausages, ham, salami, pate, bacon, etc. then 'PAPs' or 'no PAPs' makes no difference at all. |
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Post by foster on Jun 28, 2021 12:37:49 GMT
Bit rich coming from a Brexiteer who voted to give the poorer EU nations nothing at all. Why would I want to give money to the faux poor in Europe When there’s millions of real poor around the world You didn't vote to redistribute the EU payments to the rest of the world did you though. The vote was to redistribute it in the UK, which is fair enough if it ever happens. The point was more that you criticise the EU giving minimum support to it's members when you voted to give none whatsoever. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 28, 2021 12:42:35 GMT
Why would I want to give money to the faux poor in Europe When there’s millions of real poor around the world You didn't vote to redistribute the EU payments to the rest of the world did you though. The vote was to redistribute it in the UK, which is fair enough if it ever happens. The point was more that you criticise the EU giving minimum support to it's members when you voted to give none whatsoever. I wasn’t criticising the Eu giving minimum support I’m merely pointing out the Eu is giving fuck all most of it will eventually be paid back probably twice over or will have conditions that will harm the ordinary citizen |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 28, 2021 12:45:16 GMT
You didn't vote to redistribute the EU payments to the rest of the world did you though. The vote was to redistribute it in the UK, which is fair enough if it ever happens. The point was more that you criticise the EU giving minimum support to it's members when you voted to give none whatsoever. I wasn’t criticising the Eu giving minimum support I’m merely pointing out the Eu is giving fuck all most of it will eventually be paid back probably twice over or will have conditions that will harm the ordinary citizen Weren't you all in favour of cutting the aid budget too? So that's poorer European countries that can do one and poorer 'world' countries that can likewise fuck off! |
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Post by foster on Jun 28, 2021 12:55:07 GMT
I wasn’t criticising the Eu giving minimum support I’m merely pointing out the Eu is giving fuck all most of it will eventually be paid back probably twice over or will have conditions that will harm the ordinary citizen Weren't you all in favour of cutting the aid budget too? So that's poorer European countries that can do one and poorer 'world' countries that can likewise fuck off! I'm quite in favour of 'charity begins at home' and redistributing the EU funds to give support where most needed in the UK. However, you just need to look at the worsening poverty, families that can't afford school meals, neglected public services (health, education, police), increased stabbings, etc. to see whose pockets that apparent '350m' per week is lining. |
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 28, 2021 12:57:04 GMT
I wasn’t criticising the Eu giving minimum support I’m merely pointing out the Eu is giving fuck all most of it will eventually be paid back probably twice over or will have conditions that will harm the ordinary citizen Weren't you all in favour of cutting the aid budget too? So that's poorer European countries that can do one and poorer 'world' countries that can likewise fuck off! You are foster should be proud of what the the UK gives in aid instead of knocking your country. news.sky.com/story/foreign-aid-how-the-uks-spending-on-overseas-development-compares-to-other-countries-12327046Some countries give more like Germany and Sweden but they are not paying for large defence forces. Maybe we should scrap our nuclear deterrent and spend the money on foreign aid and welfare like Labour say they would do when in opposition. |
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Post by foster on Jun 28, 2021 18:13:15 GMT
Weren't you all in favour of cutting the aid budget too? So that's poorer European countries that can do one and poorer 'world' countries that can likewise fuck off! You are foster should be proud of what the the UK gives in aid instead of knocking your country. news.sky.com/story/foreign-aid-how-the-uks-spending-on-overseas-development-compares-to-other-countries-12327046Some countries give more like Germany and Sweden but they are not paying for large defence forces. Maybe we should scrap our nuclear deterrent and spend the money on foreign aid and welfare like Labour say they would do when in opposition. No one is knocking the UK. As someone else pointed out a few days ago, you certainly are a disagreeable poster with your snide childish remarks. I think we're just not so deluded that we can't see where obvious improvements should be made. You only need to look at other threads to see most people on here see this too. Apart from yourself apparently. |
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 28, 2021 18:29:52 GMT
DESPITE BREXIT obvs....
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Post by foster on Jun 28, 2021 19:26:49 GMT
"It is unclear whether Nissan has been promised financial backing from state resources in return for its continued investment in Sunderland." Why would the government be so involved if not. In any case it's ready in 2024, creating 100s of jobs. It's peanuts when looking at the big picture and hardly anything to brag about. |
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 28, 2021 20:52:43 GMT
No one is knocking the UK. As someone else pointed out a few days ago, you certainly are a disagreeable poster with your snide childish remarks. I think we're just not so deluded that we can't see where obvious improvements should be made. You only need to look at other threads to see most people on here see this too. Apart from yourself apparently. Apologies if my comment was misplaced in your case but it has been a consistent theme of remainers to belittle the achievements of the UK, belittle the UK's standing in the world, and predict doom and gloom and economic disaster as a consequence of the decision to leave the EU. The UK left the customs union on 1st January and there have been constant references to a decline in exports to the EU. That was obviously going to happen, but parts of the media and remainers on this MB post links and pastes as though it is a disaster, when the reality is the UK is exporting more today, when we are still not fully out of a pandemic, than we were at the time of the referendum. The scare stories continue unabated, the latest being dire predictions of empty shop shelves (a recipe for panic buying) due to a shortage of lorry drivers. There is a shortage of all skilled jobs I suspect; employment in the UK today is higher than it was at the time of the referendum. Almost all employers are wanting to take on staff as commerce is growing rapidly. Time and again remainers scares have been proved wrong, such as collapse in the economy, unemployment, millions of people leaving, rampant inflation, food shortages, collapse of the Health Service, etc. None of these have happened despite suffering a pandemic, and the obdurate attitude of the EU and some European heads if state. Nissan closing is a prime example. As for snide childish remarks, I think remainers are probably sensitive to hearing the the harsh truth. Apart from a few areas such as Northern Ireland, fishing, and exporting fresh food, Brexit has not delivered the economic collapse remainers predicted. Unemployment is low, £ stable, FTSE sound, etc. It is remainers who have resorted to comments about leavers being, racist, xenophobic, anti-Europe, little Britons, etc. Above all we are a sovereign nation again like USA, Japan, Canada, India, - the list is almost endless. Of course there are obvious improvements can be made. Mistakes have been made and opportunities missed. There is always scope for improvement. Much of what has ben achieved has been excellent. Take for example trade agreements. Remainers said it could take a year or more to get a trade agreement with the EU, if at all. It would take years to renegotiate all the existing EU trade agreements with other countries. It would take years to negotiate new trade agreements. The agreements would not be as good as EU agreements because "little Britain" is not as strong as the EU. All has been proved incorrect. The UK now has more trade agreements than the EU, better in the case of Japan, and a joint commitment to improve the Canada agreement. Since leaving the EU we are "ahead" of the EU in plans to reform agriculture (CAP), environment legislation (ban on petrol and diesel cars) , health (vaccination programme), VAT on women's sanitary products, with financial control reforms going through Parliament. Obviously much more needs to be done, particularly on environment and health. I rest my case. |
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Post by foster on Jun 28, 2021 22:47:40 GMT
Anyone have an idea on how services are doing? They make up more than trading goods in terms of the UK economy but I'm not really following the performance since Brexit.
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Post by foster on Jun 28, 2021 22:58:51 GMT
Anyone have an idea on how services are doing? They make up more than trading goods in terms of the UK economy but I'm not really following the performance since Brexit. Edit: the services company I work for made more profit than usual last year. Probably due in part to the massive reduction in travel costs. Its a multinational so not only UK. |
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Post by 4372 on Jun 28, 2021 23:07:54 GMT
With respect,you don't get to write the history of Brexit as a one-sided story. There are many people who challenge the ideas behind Brexit, and they have every right,in a democracy,to put their views forward. Remember again that only 37% of voters voted for this idea. It is more than admirable that some people continue to prefer that GB is inside the EU. I seem to remember that Farage said that a 52/48 split would mean that Brexit is unfinished business.
It is not a scare story to say that exports to the EU were bound to fall after Brexit, if you acknowledge as you do that this is actually happening; that for most people would count as a fact. Similarly, I don't understand the point you are making about lorry drivers-either there is a shortage or there isn't. Your point about shortage of labour elsewhere is not relevant.
Harsh truth is you have been sucked into a pit of propaganda, and you have only a myopic view of the relationship between GB and the EU.The language you use demonstrates a clear anti-EU bias, you could even say that you are belittling the greatest force for peace and prosperity in Europe for many years. Yesterday in France the right wing failed to gain any power, even though they also hold anti-EU views. The Dutch right wing leader also failed to win an election, and the Italian right wing nonentity lost office last year. There is little anti-EU sentiment on the continent,despite the drivel people posted on here during the Brexit campaign. Most people prefer to get on with their lives, achieving prosperity, progress and peace in harmony with each other.There is no doubt that some people who voted for Brexit did so for xenophobic, jingoistic reasons. Just look at some of the reports about the feelings of immigrants about how they felt as the referendum campaign progressed. It is hard to understand why some Brexiteers are so anti the EU,now the UK has left, and when the EU clearly is not a problem for most EU citizens.
You are right though,the UK is a sovereign nation-just like France,Germany, Italy,-the list is almost endless. Or on second thoughts, it could be that you have swallowed an extreme view about the nature of sovereignty.
Clearly the UK is not ahead of the EU in all aspects since Brexit. You again need to be reminded that there was nothing about being inside the EU that forced GB to work with the EU vaccine procurement programme, in the same way that being part of the EU did not force GB adopt the Euro, or enter the Schengen arrangements. You are trying to re-write history,which is dangerous, and has to be challenged. The UK has had an excellent vaccine initiative, and a very poor response to other aspects of the Pandemic, don't forget. And as you acknowledge,there have been issues with fishing and Northern Ireland, which could yet bring trouble to the province.
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Post by foster on Jun 28, 2021 23:27:50 GMT
With respect,you don't get to write the history of Brexit as a one-sided story. There are many people who challenge the ideas behind Brexit, and they have every right,in a democracy,to put their views forward. Remember again that only 37% of voters voted for this idea. It is more than admirable that some people continue to prefer that GB is inside the EU. I seem to remember that Farage said that a 52/48 split would mean that Brexit is unfinished business. It is not a scare story to say that exports to the EU were bound to fall after Brexit, if you acknowledge as you do that this is actually happening; that for most people would count as a fact. Similarly, I don't understand the point you are making about lorry drivers-either there is a shortage or there isn't. Your point about shortage of labour elsewhere is not relevant. Harsh truth is you have been sucked into a pit of propaganda, and you have only a myopic view of the relationship between GB and the EU.The language you use demonstrates a clear anti-EU bias, you could even say that you are belittling the greatest force for peace and prosperity in Europe for many years. Yesterday in France the right wing failed to gain any power, even though they also hold anti-EU views. The Dutch right wing leader also failed to win an election, and the Italian right wing nonentity lost office last year. There is little anti-EU sentiment on the continent,despite the drivel people posted on here during the Brexit campaign. Most people prefer to get on with their lives, achieving prosperity, progress and peace in harmony with each other.There is no doubt that some people who voted for Brexit did so for xenophobic, jingoistic reasons. Just look at some of the reports about the feelings of immigrants about how they felt as the referendum campaign progressed. It is hard to understand why some Brexiteers are so anti the EU,now the UK has left, and when the EU clearly is not a problem for most EU citizens. You are right though,the UK is a sovereign nation-just like France,Germany, Italy,-the list is almost endless. Or on second thoughts, it could be that you have swallowed an extreme view about the nature of sovereignty. Clearly the UK is not ahead of the EU in all aspects since Brexit. You again need to be reminded that there was nothing about being inside the EU that forced GB to work with the EU vaccine procurement programme, in the same way that being part of the EU did not force GB adopt the Euro, or enter the Schengen arrangements. You are trying to re-write history,which is dangerous, and has to be challenged. The UK has had an excellent vaccine initiative, and a very poor response to other aspects of the Pandemic, don't forget. And as you acknowledge,there have been issues with fishing and Northern Ireland, which could yet bring trouble to the province. All good except you didn't actually reply to him. Unless the entire thread is about him of course. Which it seems to be becoming. 'The chronicles of MrCoke in Europe. A struggle against cartels and underhanded practices.' Good thing it's in the fiction section. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 29, 2021 7:43:10 GMT
With respect,you don't get to write the history of Brexit as a one-sided story. There are many people who challenge the ideas behind Brexit, and they have every right,in a democracy,to put their views forward. Remember again that only 37% of voters voted for this idea. It is more than admirable that some people continue to prefer that GB is inside the EU. I seem to remember that Farage said that a 52/48 split would mean that Brexit is unfinished business. It is not a scare story to say that exports to the EU were bound to fall after Brexit, if you acknowledge as you do that this is actually happening; that for most people would count as a fact. Similarly, I don't understand the point you are making about lorry drivers-either there is a shortage or there isn't. Your point about shortage of labour elsewhere is not relevant. Harsh truth is you have been sucked into a pit of propaganda, and you have only a myopic view of the relationship between GB and the EU.The language you use demonstrates a clear anti-EU bias, you could even say that you are belittling the greatest force for peace and prosperity in Europe for many years. Yesterday in France the right wing failed to gain any power, even though they also hold anti-EU views. The Dutch right wing leader also failed to win an election, and the Italian right wing nonentity lost office last year. There is little anti-EU sentiment on the continent,despite the drivel people posted on here during the Brexit campaign. Most people prefer to get on with their lives, achieving prosperity, progress and peace in harmony with each other.There is no doubt that some people who voted for Brexit did so for xenophobic, jingoistic reasons. Just look at some of the reports about the feelings of immigrants about how they felt as the referendum campaign progressed. It is hard to understand why some Brexiteers are so anti the EU,now the UK has left, and when the EU clearly is not a problem for most EU citizens. You are right though,the UK is a sovereign nation-just like France,Germany, Italy,-the list is almost endless. Or on second thoughts, it could be that you have swallowed an extreme view about the nature of sovereignty. Clearly the UK is not ahead of the EU in all aspects since Brexit. You again need to be reminded that there was nothing about being inside the EU that forced GB to work with the EU vaccine procurement programme, in the same way that being part of the EU did not force GB adopt the Euro, or enter the Schengen arrangements. You are trying to re-write history,which is dangerous, and has to be challenged. The UK has had an excellent vaccine initiative, and a very poor response to other aspects of the Pandemic, don't forget. And as you acknowledge,there have been issues with fishing and Northern Ireland, which could yet bring trouble to the province. Spot on. And most people can see that, at least if representative polls on how Brexit is going are anything to go by. Of course, if you're a Brexit propagandist, you're never going to accept that it might not have been the best idea for the country and was really just a means of preventing the fracturing of the Tory Party, which to be fair has worked very well for them. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 29, 2021 7:48:57 GMT
With respect,you don't get to write the history of Brexit as a one-sided story. There are many people who challenge the ideas behind Brexit, and they have every right,in a democracy,to put their views forward. Remember again that only 37% of voters voted for this idea. It is more than admirable that some people continue to prefer that GB is inside the EU. I seem to remember that Farage said that a 52/48 split would mean that Brexit is unfinished business. It is not a scare story to say that exports to the EU were bound to fall after Brexit, if you acknowledge as you do that this is actually happening; that for most people would count as a fact. Similarly, I don't understand the point you are making about lorry drivers-either there is a shortage or there isn't. Your point about shortage of labour elsewhere is not relevant. Harsh truth is you have been sucked into a pit of propaganda, and you have only a myopic view of the relationship between GB and the EU.The language you use demonstrates a clear anti-EU bias, you could even say that you are belittling the greatest force for peace and prosperity in Europe for many years. Yesterday in France the right wing failed to gain any power, even though they also hold anti-EU views. The Dutch right wing leader also failed to win an election, and the Italian right wing nonentity lost office last year. There is little anti-EU sentiment on the continent,despite the drivel people posted on here during the Brexit campaign. Most people prefer to get on with their lives, achieving prosperity, progress and peace in harmony with each other.There is no doubt that some people who voted for Brexit did so for xenophobic, jingoistic reasons. Just look at some of the reports about the feelings of immigrants about how they felt as the referendum campaign progressed. It is hard to understand why some Brexiteers are so anti the EU,now the UK has left, and when the EU clearly is not a problem for most EU citizens. You are right though,the UK is a sovereign nation-just like France,Germany, Italy,-the list is almost endless. Or on second thoughts, it could be that you have swallowed an extreme view about the nature of sovereignty. Clearly the UK is not ahead of the EU in all aspects since Brexit. You again need to be reminded that there was nothing about being inside the EU that forced GB to work with the EU vaccine procurement programme, in the same way that being part of the EU did not force GB adopt the Euro, or enter the Schengen arrangements. You are trying to re-write history,which is dangerous, and has to be challenged. The UK has had an excellent vaccine initiative, and a very poor response to other aspects of the Pandemic, don't forget. And as you acknowledge,there have been issues with fishing and Northern Ireland, which could yet bring trouble to the province. Spot on. And most people can see that, at least if representative polls on how Brexit is going are anything to go by. Of course, if you're a Brexit propagandist, you're never going to accept that it might not have been the best idea for the country and was really just a means of preventing the fracturing of the Tory Party, which to be fair has worked very well for them. Most countries are not in the EU. It certainly fractured Labour, playing politics. Siding with the Tory government of the day, Cameron and Osborne, Soubry and Clarke and the likes of Heseltine ....and Blair. Membership of the EU , an antidemocratic , top down project designed for power and political and economic union, a United States of Europe, is non party political. Corbyn understood that. www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-chuka-umunna-independent-group-leave-remain-a8828001.html |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 29, 2021 8:00:46 GMT
Oh well, never mind what it means for the country as a whole, or even if the country as a whole breaks up, as long as the Tory Party benefits from it, that's all that really matters.
And, as Hartlepool and Batley are showing, it's still working for them. As I've said elsewhere I think it'll take a good few years until Brexit voters will be able to bring themselves to consider not voting Tory without feeling like they're 'betraying' Brexit.
What kind of mess this current bunch will have delivered by then is anyone's guess, but they're getting a free ride on the back of Brexit for some time yet.
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 29, 2021 8:01:05 GMT
"It is unclear whether Nissan has been promised financial backing from state resources in return for its continued investment in Sunderland." Why would the government be so involved if not. In any case it's ready in 2024, creating 100s of jobs. It's peanuts when looking at the big picture and hardly anything to brag about. Of course they have been promised government help, this ludicrous net zero policy requires the uk to have a number of these battery plants to be able to produce enough electric cars without them you would see the end of car production in the uk so no its not peanuts. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 29, 2021 8:04:44 GMT
Oh well, never mind what it means for the country as a whole, or even if the country as a whole breaks up, as long as the Tory Party benefits from it, that's all that really matters. And, as Hartlepool and Batley are showing, it's still working for them. As I've said elsewhere I think it'll take a good few years until Brexit voters will be able to bring themselves to consider not voting Tory without feeling like they're 'betraying' Brexit. What kind of mess this current bunch will have delivered by then is anyone's guess, but they're getting a free ride on the back of Brexit for some time yet. As you say....oh well, never mind.A catastrophic mistake by Labour and those who think they speak for the Left. Time to move on. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 29, 2021 8:29:52 GMT
Oh well, never mind what it means for the country as a whole, or even if the country as a whole breaks up, as long as the Tory Party benefits from it, that's all that really matters. And, as Hartlepool and Batley are showing, it's still working for them. As I've said elsewhere I think it'll take a good few years until Brexit voters will be able to bring themselves to consider not voting Tory without feeling like they're 'betraying' Brexit. What kind of mess this current bunch will have delivered by then is anyone's guess, but they're getting a free ride on the back of Brexit for some time yet. As you say....oh well, never mind.A catastrophic mistake by Labour and those who think they speak for the Left. Time to move on. That's the spirit! Spoken like a true Brexiteer/rightwinger....Never mind what it means for the country as a whole...  |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 29, 2021 8:39:50 GMT
As you say....oh well, never mind.A catastrophic mistake by Labour and those who think they speak for the Left. Time to move on. That's the spirit! Spoken like a true Brexiteer/rightwinger....Never mind what it means for the country as a whole... Spoken like an out of date irrelevant Leftist. It certainly means a lot for the country as a whole, that's why there was such a committed turn out. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 29, 2021 8:55:09 GMT
Brexit the will of the British electorate
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Post by foster on Jun 29, 2021 8:55:26 GMT
"It is unclear whether Nissan has been promised financial backing from state resources in return for its continued investment in Sunderland." Why would the government be so involved if not. In any case it's ready in 2024, creating 100s of jobs. It's peanuts when looking at the big picture and hardly anything to brag about. Of course they have been promised government help, this ludicrous net zero policy requires the uk to have a number of these battery plants to be able to produce enough electric cars without them you would see the end of car production in the uk so no its not peanuts. The UK car industry is peanuts and the only ridiculous thing about the net zero target is that it'll take so long. |
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