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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 10:36:39 GMT
It's funny (strange) how things go sometimes. Remember last summer there were 3 supposedly hot 'B named' strikers knocking around being Bony, Benteke and Berahino and lots of debate about whether we would sign one of them and which was the best. The sense was Benteke had the aerial power, Bony the strength and finishing ability and Berahino had that 'x-factor' the ability to dump a defender flat on his backside. Well we ended up with 2 of them and got the best part of bugger all out of either of them, meantime Benteke went to Palace and has notched 14 Prem goals in 31 matches  You missed off an important fact. Benteke went for 32M. Here's another fact. Our entire transfer business this season is roughly that figure. Maybe we're getting what we're paying for? |
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Post by Gods on Apr 24, 2017 10:51:20 GMT
It's funny (strange) how things go sometimes. Remember last summer there were 3 supposedly hot 'B named' strikers knocking around being Bony, Benteke and Berahino and lots of debate about whether we would sign one of them and which was the best. The sense was Benteke had the aerial power, Bony the strength and finishing ability and Berahino had that 'x-factor' the ability to dump a defender flat on his backside. Well we ended up with 2 of them and got the best part of bugger all out of either of them, meantime Benteke went to Palace and has notched 14 Prem goals in 31 matches You missed off an important fact. Benteke went for 32M. Here's another fact. Our entire transfer business this season is roughly that figure. Maybe we're getting what we're paying for? Did you cut and paste 'Clayton Woods' post from 5 minutes earlier ?  |
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Apr 24, 2017 10:57:42 GMT
The price isnt a good though.
Bony was purchased for 28M by Man City so surely he has the same pedigree as Benteke? The fact we only loaned him but he never really performed.
Out of all the strikers we have had recently Bony should have been the perfect fit and I think he offered us way much more despite only scoring 2 goals.
Berahino isnt much faster than Bony and offers much less all-around.
The fact we couldnt get Bony banging them in just shows we are a graveyard for strikers
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Apr 24, 2017 11:09:17 GMT
Generally when you've watched Stoke for a long time you get a 'feeling' about new signings after a few games about whether they'll be any good or not and it's very rarely wrong. Examples of getting it wrong that I can think of are Imbula (sadly the wrong way round, thought he looked a world beater at first but unfortunately he appears to have a poor attitude and huge defensive and positional flaws), Delap who I initially called Decrap and obviously went on to be a huge success but after that I'm struggling. Generally you get a vibe from experience about whether they'll succeed or not and Berahino is screaming flop to me. I really hope I'm wrong but everything points to it right now. His movement, finishing, lack of pace, lack of sharpness, off field issues and baggage I just can't see this working.
Please Saido prove me wrong.
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Post by Gods on Apr 24, 2017 11:15:53 GMT
The price isnt a good though. Bony was purchased for 28M by Man City so surely he has the same pedigree as Benteke? The fact we only loaned him but he never really performed. Out of all the strikers we have had recently Bony should have been the perfect fit and I think he offered us way much more despite only scoring 2 goals. Berahino isnt much faster than Bony and offers much less all-around. The fact we couldnt get Bony banging them in just shows we are a graveyard for strikers I did think it was swings and roundabouts between Bony and Benteke, very different playing styles but roughly on a par in terms of a goal scoring threat. Heaven knows why we were not able to tease any meaningful action out of Bony in the first half of the season and subsequently why we simply threw the towel in on him after the Africa Nations cup. An eye watering eighty thousand pounds a week simply pissed up the wall |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 11:17:27 GMT
We don't play forwards in with through balls and we don't put crosses in. If we're going to continue like this, then we really need a player with a happy knack of just being in the right place at the right time. We've got one of them, but he's been largely ignored for the past two seasons.
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Post by TinkerT on Apr 24, 2017 11:20:29 GMT
Generally when you've watched Stoke for a long time you get a 'feeling' about new signings after a few games about whether they'll be any good or not and it's very rarely wrong. Examples of getting it wrong that I can think of are Imbula (sadly the wrong way round, thought he looked a world beater at first but unfortunately he appears to have a poor attitude and huge defensive and positional flaws), Delap who I initially called Decrap and obviously went on to be a huge success but after that I'm struggling. Generally you get a vibe from experience about whether they'll succeed or not and Berahino is screaming flop to me. I really hope I'm wrong but everything points to it right now. His movement, finishing, lack of pace, lack of sharpness, off field issues and baggage I just can't see this working. Please Saido prove me wrong. So, the examples you've provided and by your analysis saido will be scoring 20 goals a season next season. By your logic, imbula started off amazing and flopped. Saido started terrible and should be banging them in, so where's your idea come from that he will "flop" |
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Post by Gods on Apr 24, 2017 11:20:42 GMT
We don't play forwards in with through balls and we don't put crosses in. If we're going to continue like this, then we really need a player with a happy knack of just being in the right place at the right time. We've got one of them, but he's been largely ignored for the past two seasons. Indeed or someone who can simply create something out of absolutely nothing, win a penalty or antagonise a defender in to an error, dare I say the name of the much maligned Jonathan Walters, 43 Stoke City Premier League goals and counting  |
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Post by TinkerT on Apr 24, 2017 11:22:17 GMT
We don't play forwards in with through balls and we don't put crosses in. If we're going to continue like this, then we really need a player with a happy knack of just being in the right place at the right time. We've got one of them, but he's been largely ignored for the past two seasons. Our wingers cut inside far too much, we don't get down the byline and cross, we have no midfielder who can create or even dare to shoot, and we have Ryan's 50 yard punt which is attempted at least 20 times per game.. |
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Post by Gods on Apr 24, 2017 11:30:03 GMT
Generally when you've watched Stoke for a long time you get a 'feeling' about new signings after a few games about whether they'll be any good or not and it's very rarely wrong. Examples of getting it wrong that I can think of are Imbula (sadly the wrong way round, thought he looked a world beater at first but unfortunately he appears to have a poor attitude and huge defensive and positional flaws), Delap who I initially called Decrap and obviously went on to be a huge success but after that I'm struggling. Generally you get a vibe from experience about whether they'll succeed or not and Berahino is screaming flop to me. I really hope I'm wrong but everything points to it right now. His movement, finishing, lack of pace, lack of sharpness, off field issues and baggage I just can't see this working. Please Saido prove me wrong. I knew Riki Dadason was a dud the moment I clapped eyes on him and he scored within a couple of minutes of coming on |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 11:33:30 GMT
Generally when you've watched Stoke for a long time you get a 'feeling' about new signings after a few games about whether they'll be any good or not and it's very rarely wrong. Examples of getting it wrong that I can think of are Imbula (sadly the wrong way round, thought he looked a world beater at first but unfortunately he appears to have a poor attitude and huge defensive and positional flaws), Delap who I initially called Decrap and obviously went on to be a huge success but after that I'm struggling. Generally you get a vibe from experience about whether they'll succeed or not and Berahino is screaming flop to me. I really hope I'm wrong but everything points to it right now. His movement, finishing, lack of pace, lack of sharpness, off field issues and baggage I just can't see this working. Please Saido prove me wrong. I knew Riki Dadason was a dud the moment I clapped eyes on him and he scored within a couple of minutes of coming on So 10 seconds after coming on and scoring your first reaction was to sit back in your seat and think "This bloke's a dud" |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 11:35:01 GMT
We don't play forwards in with through balls and we don't put crosses in. If we're going to continue like this, then we really need a player with a happy knack of just being in the right place at the right time. We've got one of them, but he's been largely ignored for the past two seasons. Indeed or someone who can simply create something out of absolutely nothing, win a penalty or antagonise a defender in to an error, dare I say the name of the much maligned Jonathan Walters, 43 Stoke City Premier League goals and counting I've got nothing against Jon Walters, but at least he's had a fair stab at things. Diouf scores goals but has been criminally underused. We don't see what happens at training, but his 'never stop running' performances don't suggest any attitude problem, so why's he been ditched? His neglect of Diouf was the start of the many baffling decisions that seemed to suddenly wash over Hughes once he'd reached the two and a half season point. |
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Post by lowlands on Apr 24, 2017 11:38:44 GMT
At least he is getting into the positions to score which with a lack of confidence and game time will come eventually
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Post by Gods on Apr 24, 2017 11:56:34 GMT
I knew Riki Dadason was a dud the moment I clapped eyes on him and he scored within a couple of minutes of coming on So 10 seconds after coming on and scoring your first reaction was to sit back in your seat and think "This bloke's a dud" It didn't take that long, I took one look at his lanky streak of piss physique as he trotted on and thought 'no, this is not happening'  |
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Post by Not_Nick_H on Apr 24, 2017 12:32:22 GMT
, and we have Ryan's 50 yard punt which is attempted at least 20 times per game.. - Ah yes, the old "40-20" as it's called in Rugby League. |
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Post by haway on Apr 24, 2017 13:01:32 GMT
He's coming closer and closer to scoring. Have to take into account the problems he had at West Brom and now coming into a Stoke side where we create fuck all. Not taking the piss, but your first sentence is exactly what a bunch of our fans said about the likes of Jozy Altidore & Danny Graham. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 13:10:08 GMT
With the players we have, we should be creating 5 or6 clear cut chances a game against the likes of swansea. In berahino's entire time here i count 6 chances he's had.
How many goals would anyone score in a 442 with the creative jon walters next to them.
NB, thats a sleight on the formation, not Jon.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2017 13:13:39 GMT
It's funny (strange) how things go sometimes. Remember last summer there were 3 supposedly hot 'B named' strikers knocking around being Bony, Benteke and Berahino and lots of debate about whether we would sign one of them and which was the best. The sense was Benteke had the aerial power, Bony the strength and finishing ability and Berahino had that 'x-factor' the ability to dump a defender flat on his backside. Well we ended up with 2 of them and got the best part of bugger all out of either of them, meantime Benteke went to Palace and has notched 14 Prem goals in 31 matches
Hand on heart, how many do you think he would have notched up if he had come to Stoke?
The biggest current question would be if he would even make the bench for the next match ... never mind actually score.
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Post by slother on Apr 24, 2017 13:17:00 GMT
A new manager and Bera will score 20 next season. It is hereby foretold.
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 24, 2017 14:45:59 GMT
The three things hindering him at the moment are that 1) he still doesn't look fully fit and sharp (a worry in itself in that he's been with us three months), 2) he's playing in a toss team and getting fuck all service and 3) he's a bit nervy/low on confidence and desperate for a goal.
However, even during his underwhelming start I think he's shown enough flashes of movement, touch and awareness to show he knows what he's doing in the position, and he's clearly a proper footballer. Also despite his rustiness and our general shitness, he's very unlucky not to have at least three goals for us imo. The near-equaliser against Liverpool which Mignolet flukily got in the way of, the marginally offside one against Hull which he took really well, and the second header on Saturday which I don't think he did a lot wrong with (the first was proper wank though).
In short, could still potentially be a great signing but depends on him being up for applying himself and us being up for sorting ourselves out and playing to his strengths.
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Post by superheroantonius on Apr 24, 2017 15:11:09 GMT
For me the problem is not Berahino in particular
Its Hughes complete obsession with the fact Diouf is not the classiest striker in the prem but is actually far from it
He signed Diouf , played him up top or wide right and he banged in about 12 a season ( not too bad allowing for A.C.O.N )
He was quick , brave and likeable but his dodgy first touch and his dodgy finishing pretty much restricted him to about 12 goals at season
If Hughes had then taken the common sense approach of signing someone else quick , brave and likeable with a better first touch and more composure in front of goal ( expensive ! I know ) , then maybe they might have hit more than 12 goals .
But he hasn't done that , he spend lots of money anyway , getting in the likes of Bony and Berahino , who may well have a better first touch than Diouf but are most definitely not quick , not brave and not likeable .
Between the pair of them , they have made us look slow , pedestrian and a bit of a soft touch .
And I am fairly sure between the pair of them , they are going to bang in even less than 12 goals .
So basically , why bother ?
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 24, 2017 15:37:18 GMT
For me the problem is not Berahino in particular Its Hughes complete obsession with the fact Diouf is not the classiest striker in the prem but is actually far from it He signed Diouf , played him up top or wide right and he banged in about 12 a season ( not too bad allowing for A.C.O.N ) He was quick , brave and likeable but his dodgy first touch and his dodgy finishing pretty much restricted him to about 12 goals at season If Hughes had then taken the common sense approach of signing someone else quick , brave and likeable with a better first touch and more composure in front of goal ( expensive ! I know ) , then maybe they might have hit more than 12 goals . But he hasn't done that , he spend lots of money anyway , getting in the likes of Bony and Berahino , who may well have a better first touch than Diouf but are most definitely not quick , not brave and not likeable . Between the pair of them , they have made us look slow , pedestrian and a bit of a soft touch . And I am fairly sure between the pair of them , they are going to bang in even less than 12 goals . So basically , why bother ? 12 a season is a perfectly reasonable return to expect from a striker for a club like ours. We'd have been better of not signing any of the others and sticking with Diouf up front all along |
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 24, 2017 16:04:19 GMT
For me the problem is not Berahino in particular Its Hughes complete obsession with the fact Diouf is not the classiest striker in the prem but is actually far from it He signed Diouf , played him up top or wide right and he banged in about 12 a season ( not too bad allowing for A.C.O.N ) He was quick , brave and likeable but his dodgy first touch and his dodgy finishing pretty much restricted him to about 12 goals at season If Hughes had then taken the common sense approach of signing someone else quick , brave and likeable with a better first touch and more composure in front of goal ( expensive ! I know ) , then maybe they might have hit more than 12 goals . But he hasn't done that , he spend lots of money anyway , getting in the likes of Bony and Berahino , who may well have a better first touch than Diouf but are most definitely not quick , not brave and not likeable . Between the pair of them , they have made us look slow , pedestrian and a bit of a soft touch . And I am fairly sure between the pair of them , they are going to bang in even less than 12 goals . So basically , why bother ? 12 a season is a perfectly reasonable return to expect from a striker for a club like ours. We'd have been better of not signing any of the others and sticking with Diouf up front all along What I can not get my head round was the Joselu signing and subsequent freezing him out culminating with fucking him off on loan , I thought Hughes signed him as the long term replacement for Crouch, losing Zonz and replacing him with a poor loan signing compounded by what is possibly the worst deal we have ever done by the club since we have been in the PL invisible Imbula, Allen now resembles Dean Whitehead, Huth released for the German pansy tank Wolfy who suffered an ear infection so Hughes fucked him off on loan, the only proper No 10 we had has been fucked off on loan, Diouf our liveliest/quickest striker is now a wing back, Glen Johnson is now our first choice RB with an extended contract. What a fucking balls up Hughes has made of the job. |
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Post by nott1 on Apr 24, 2017 16:34:14 GMT
12 a season is a perfectly reasonable return to expect from a striker for a club like ours. We'd have been better of not signing any of the others and sticking with Diouf up front all along What I can not get my head round was the Joselu signing and subsequent freezing him out culminating with fucking him off on loan , I thought Hughes signed him as the long term replacement for Crouch, losing Zonz and replacing him with a poor loan signing compounded by what is possibly the worst deal we have ever done by the club since we have been in the PL invisible Imbula, Allen now resembles Dean Whitehead, Huth released for the German pansy tank Wolfy who suffered an ear infection so Hughes fucked him off on loan, the only proper No 10 we had has been fucked off on loan, Diouf our liveliest/quickest striker is now a wing back, Glen Johnson is now our first choice RB with an extended contract. What a fucking balls up Hughes has made of the job. He's not the one missing sitters or taking penalties in a stupid way though is he? |
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 24, 2017 17:12:46 GMT
What I can not get my head round was the Joselu signing and subsequent freezing him out culminating with fucking him off on loan , I thought Hughes signed him as the long term replacement for Crouch, losing Zonz and replacing him with a poor loan signing compounded by what is possibly the worst deal we have ever done by the club since we have been in the PL invisible Imbula, Allen now resembles Dean Whitehead, Huth released for the German pansy tank Wolfy who suffered an ear infection so Hughes fucked him off on loan, the only proper No 10 we had has been fucked off on loan, Diouf our liveliest/quickest striker is now a wing back, Glen Johnson is now our first choice RB with an extended contract. What a fucking balls up Hughes has made of the job. He's not the one missing sitters or taking penalties in a stupid way though is he? No but his payers are, he signed these players no one else he is responsible for the mess we now find ourselves in. |
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Post by mrteddysalad on Apr 24, 2017 18:02:11 GMT
We've used a plethora of strikers the last two season and none of them produced goals
MBD
Walters
Crouch (to be fair, he's old)
Bojan false nine
Joselu (to be fair, he was never really given a chance)
Bony
Berahino
They're not all terrible. At what point do you blame the system (Sparky) instead of the talent? No matter who we put up front the attack is still shite.
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Post by hammered on Apr 24, 2017 18:16:59 GMT
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Post by hchpotter on Apr 24, 2017 18:25:19 GMT
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Post by milky on Apr 24, 2017 18:39:38 GMT
A big concern for me was I don't think the 2 missed chances were down to lack of sharpness/confidence. I just think he is shit at heading.
So ,along with Shaqiri and Arnie that's 3 of our forward players who (at best ) aren't comfortable in heading a football.
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Apr 24, 2017 18:59:54 GMT
Generally when you've watched Stoke for a long time you get a 'feeling' about new signings after a few games about whether they'll be any good or not and it's very rarely wrong. Examples of getting it wrong that I can think of are Imbula (sadly the wrong way round, thought he looked a world beater at first but unfortunately he appears to have a poor attitude and huge defensive and positional flaws), Delap who I initially called Decrap and obviously went on to be a huge success but after that I'm struggling. Generally you get a vibe from experience about whether they'll succeed or not and Berahino is screaming flop to me. I really hope I'm wrong but everything points to it right now. His movement, finishing, lack of pace, lack of sharpness, off field issues and baggage I just can't see this working. Please Saido prove me wrong. So, the examples you've provided and by your analysis saido will be scoring 20 goals a season next season. By your logic, imbula started off amazing and flopped. Saido started terrible and should be banging them in, so where's your idea come from that he will "flop" You've missed my point although I could have explained it better. I find that generally I can tell after a few games whether a player is going to flop or succeed and aren't often wrong. I've listed 2 examples of players I've got wrong on early impressions, one who I thought would be great but turned out crap and one I thought would be crap and turned out to be great. However there are countless other ones where my initial gut instinct turned out to be right, too many to list. My gut instinct is that Berahino is going to flop and track record means that I'm unlikely to be wrong. However that doesn't stop me helping that I will be wrong! |
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