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Post by PotteringThrough on Apr 15, 2017 12:44:25 GMT
That's the point staffsvilla seems to have completely missed mate. As you say, it's an old story that has re-surfaced for no reason in a specific paper from a specific reporter at a specific time but he can't seem to see the connection. His only interest in that connection is apparently in blaming the Liverpool fans. Does Mckenzie have a column every day or is just one day of the week? If it's the latter then that's fair enough imo. That's how those columns work. If he has a daily one then it does seem odd it wasn't done on Tuesday. Don't know, he's not got one for the foreseeable future though now! |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 15, 2017 12:51:39 GMT
To be fair re: the racism/ gorilla thing, here's the actual quote:
“Perhaps unfairly, I have always judged Ross Barkley as one of our dimmest footballers. There is something about the lack of reflection in his eyes which makes me certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home.
“I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo. The physique is magnificent but it’s the eyes that tell the story.”
The fact that he explicitly explained WHY he likened him to a gorilla shows it had no racial element whatsoever. It was a cheap, childish jibe more associated with children than "Professional journalists" but certainly not racist regardless of his skin colour or his heritage. People (even when making pathetic, childish comments for an adult) shouldn't have to think "Well i want to liken someone to a dumb animal....best research their entire family tree first to ensure that animal's skin tone isn't fairly close to the person's skin colour on the dulux chart just in case. That's just daft.
The "racial slur" most seem to have actually complained about to the authorities, is the stereotyping of Liverpudlians as drug dealers. That appears to be the main issue with most, NOT the gorilla comparison.
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Post by werrington on Apr 15, 2017 12:52:38 GMT
Brian Reade of The Mirror .....take a bow son
It's April 15th. Fuck MacKenzie. Think only of the families. And hope the criminals that bastard protected 28 years ago will soon be jailed
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 15, 2017 12:54:28 GMT
To be fair re: the racism/ gorilla thing, here's the actual quote: “Perhaps unfairly, I have always judged Ross Barkley as one of our dimmest footballers. There is something about the lack of reflection in his eyes which makes me certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home. “I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo. The physique is magnificent but it’s the eyes that tell the story.” The fact that he explicitly explained WHY he likened him to a gorilla shows it had no racial element whatsoever. It was a cheap, childish jibe more associated with children than "Professional journalists" but certainly not racist regardless of his skin colour or his heritage. The "racial slur" most seem to have actually complained about to the authorities, is the stereotyping of Liverpudlians as drug dealers. That appears to be the main issue with most, NOT the gorilla comparison. It's definitely been the gorilla thing. Read the papers, look on Twitter etc. |
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Post by Anto1962 on Apr 15, 2017 12:56:07 GMT
To be fair re: the racism/ gorilla thing, here's the actual quote: “Perhaps unfairly, I have always judged Ross Barkley as one of our dimmest footballers. There is something about the lack of reflection in his eyes which makes me certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home. “I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo. The physique is magnificent but it’s the eyes that tell the story.” The fact that he explicitly explained WHY he likened him to a gorilla shows it had no racial element whatsoever. It was a cheap, childish jibe more associated with children than "Professional journalists" but certainly not racist regardless of his skin colour or his heritage. The "racial slur" most seem to have actually complained about to the authorities, is the stereotyping of Liverpudlians as drug dealers. That appears to be the main issue with most, NOT the gorilla comparison. But it's still a very niave comment though that a good journalist would not make, but he's not a good Journalist so it can only be expected. |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 15, 2017 13:02:07 GMT
To be fair re: the racism/ gorilla thing, here's the actual quote: “Perhaps unfairly, I have always judged Ross Barkley as one of our dimmest footballers. There is something about the lack of reflection in his eyes which makes me certain not only are the lights not on, there is definitely nobody at home. “I get a similar feeling when seeing a gorilla at the zoo. The physique is magnificent but it’s the eyes that tell the story.” The fact that he explicitly explained WHY he likened him to a gorilla shows it had no racial element whatsoever. It was a cheap, childish jibe more associated with children than "Professional journalists" but certainly not racist regardless of his skin colour or his heritage. The "racial slur" most seem to have actually complained about to the authorities, is the stereotyping of Liverpudlians as drug dealers. That appears to be the main issue with most, NOT the gorilla comparison. It's definitely been the gorilla thing. Read the papers, look on Twitter etc. Nope because they're just sensationalist bollocks being jumped on by celebrities to enhance their profiles and rival newspapers wanting to make their competitors look as bad as possible. For god's sake Bayern, you're not so naive to be unable to recognise that are you? Come on mate. Twitter and the tabloids are rarely a hotbed for actual facts...hence why i said the complaints to the AUTHORITIES, not complaints by joe public on social media who only know of the story because of Collymore and Barton (and thousands of others then tag along with) because it's good PR for them. The main complaints to the police about racial slurs have been centred around his comments re: the people of the area. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 15, 2017 13:04:34 GMT
It's definitely been the gorilla thing. Read the papers, look on Twitter etc. Nope because they're just sensationalist bollocks being jumped on by celebrities to enhamce their profiles and rival newspapers wanting to make tier competitors look as bad as possible. For god's sake Bayern, you're notnso naive to be unable to recognise that are you? Come on mate...hence why i said the complaints to the AUTHORITIES, not complaints by joe public on social media who only know of the story because of Collymore and Barton (and thousands of others then tag along with) because it's good PR for them. The main complaints to the police about racial slurs have been centred around his comments re: the people of the area. If that's the case I hope they get laughed at. |
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Post by tuum on Apr 15, 2017 13:36:35 GMT
Nope because they're just sensationalist bollocks being jumped on by celebrities to enhamce their profiles and rival newspapers wanting to make tier competitors look as bad as possible. For god's sake Bayern, you're notnso naive to be unable to recognise that are you? Come on mate...hence why i said the complaints to the AUTHORITIES, not complaints by joe public on social media who only know of the story because of Collymore and Barton (and thousands of others then tag along with) because it's good PR for them. The main complaints to the police about racial slurs have been centred around his comments re: the people of the area. If that's the case I hope they get laughed at. The Mayor of Liverpool was one who complained to the police. He has just been on TV and it was clear from his comments that he accused KM of racism based on Berkely's ancestry and the gorilla reference. I think the complaint undermines the real problems of racism. Tarring Liverpool as a haven of drug dealers and ctiminals would be more insulting in my opinion but people see things differently I suppose. |
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 15, 2017 13:40:56 GMT
Brian Reade of The Mirror .....take a bow son It's April 15th. Fuck MacKenzie. Think only of the families. And hope the criminals that bastard protected 28 years ago will soon be jailed This |
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Post by liam007 on Apr 15, 2017 22:48:22 GMT
28 years ago today i got home from Bournemouth after a 0-1 win for Stoke,Paul Ware(RIP) goal.The journey home felt so hard and long.I remember those Liverpool fans that never got home that day from watching their team. Mackenzie has a agenda and is a twat.By no means am i lover of Liverpool Football Club,infact since Klopp turned up i actually enjoy seeing them getting beat,but those 96 should always be remembered.Oakwell replay could have been our Hillsboro.
RIP 96
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Post by cooper67 on Apr 15, 2017 23:21:17 GMT
I don't know whether it's been mentioned as I certainly going to trawl through all these posts-but a website called 'A spokesman said' keeps being highlighted at the top the threads. Just to let you know that Mr MacKenzie has a leading role in it.
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Post by stokefc on Apr 15, 2017 23:31:19 GMT
28 years ago today i got home from Bournemouth after a 0-1 win for Stoke,Paul Ware(RIP) goal.The journey home felt so hard and long.I remember those Liverpool fans that never got home that day from watching their team. Mackenzie has a agenda and is a twat.By no means am i lover of Liverpool Football Club,infact since Klopp turned up i actually enjoy seeing them getting beat,but those 96 should always be remembered.Oakwell replay could have been our Hillsboro. RIP 96 was at that game remember listening to someone with a radio as it unfolded dumbfounded , paul ware scored with a floated cross that somehow found the net i think that newspaper should be closed down the shit they report destroys lives |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Apr 15, 2017 23:35:39 GMT
28 years ago today i got home from Bournemouth after a 0-1 win for Stoke,Paul Ware(RIP) goal.The journey home felt so hard and long.I remember those Liverpool fans that never got home that day from watching their team. Mackenzie has a agenda and is a twat.By no means am i lover of Liverpool Football Club,infact since Klopp turned up i actually enjoy seeing them getting beat,but those 96 should always be remembered. Oakwell replay could have been our Hillsboro. RIP 96 My dad tells me about this whenever Hillsborough is brought up, it was only ever a matter of time. RIP to all. |
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Post by ParaPsych on Apr 15, 2017 23:48:10 GMT
On the racism thing I must say I thought it was fairly well known that there is a large black heritage in Liverpool going back a very long way?
I dunno, it's probably not intentional on MacKenzie's part, but i wouldn't rule it out. But then I thought Barkley's black heritage was more obvious than people are making out (clue, it's in the hair) and I had also heard about the Nigeria connection before as it was in the papers a few years ago.
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Post by Will_75 on Apr 15, 2017 23:49:01 GMT
Why is everyone so quick to try disabuse the racist element of this?
It wasn't very long ago (when Barkley first got near the England team) that I read few articles about him and a few other players' (i.e. Sterling) choice to play for England when other countries were available
MacKenzie knew exactly what he was doing. Nasty dog-whistle racist shite tagged onto a deliberately timed dig at Liverpool. And so called football fans on here are falling for his faux-naive defence?
Wake up lads. Imagine if it had been Oakwell rather than Hillsborough and you still had cunts like MacKenzie digging your city out, slagging off say Saido or Ramadan, and dickheads like StaffsVilla coming on here to say that despite at the evidence to the contrary, with disclosure fought for for decades by grieving parents, that it was still the fault of he people of Stoke on Trent?
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Post by Will_75 on Apr 15, 2017 23:49:48 GMT
On the racism thing I must say I thought it was fairly well known that there is a large black heritage in Liverpool going back a very long way? I dunno, it's probably not intentional on MacKenzie's part, but i wouldn't rule it out. But then I thought Barkley's black heritage was more obvious than people are making out (clue, it's in the hair) and I had also heard about the Nigeria connection before as it was in the papers a few years ago. He knew. Of course he knew. |
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Post by ParaPsych on Apr 15, 2017 23:53:20 GMT
On the racism thing I must say I thought it was fairly well known that there is a large black heritage in Liverpool going back a very long way? I dunno, it's probably not intentional on MacKenzie's part, but i wouldn't rule it out. But then I thought Barkley's black heritage was more obvious than people are making out (clue, it's in the hair) and I had also heard about the Nigeria connection before as it was in the papers a few years ago. He knew. Of course he knew. Yes I've been too lenient on him there. The more I think about the more I think you're right. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 16, 2017 0:04:30 GMT
I had no idea Barkley was mixed race and it seems nor do a lot of people. I've never given a shit before, I still don't now particularly.
I know Liverpool was big on slavery but never it had a big black heritage past being along with Bristol at the forefront of that trade.
Even if he did know, he's explained why he reminds him of one, it's not racist is it?
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Post by Will_75 on Apr 16, 2017 0:04:30 GMT
He knew. Of course he knew. Yes I've been too lenient on him there. The more I think about the more I think you're right. Thing is, it was a totally pointless, uncalled for and unnecessary article. Why write it, or publish it at all? People like him aren't stupid enough to come with something blatantly racist*, they're always going to leave a bit of room for manoeuvre, so they can pull the PC brigade card. It's the same with Ken Livingstone and his defence that "I never said Hitler was a Zionist, I said he supported Zionism 'before he went mad', (but after he'd written Mein Kampf eh Ken?) This, for me, is why so many journalists are lining up to condemn him - they know what he was doing and they want nothing to with him... * apart from Ron Atkinson obv. |
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Post by Will_75 on Apr 16, 2017 0:07:43 GMT
I had no idea Barkley was mixed race and it seems nor do a lot of people. I've never given a shit before, I still don't now particularly. I know Liverpool was big on slavery but never it had a big black heritage past being along with Bristol at the forefront of that trade. Even if he did know, he's explained why he reminds him of one, it's not racist is it? Oh, I think posting a link of a mixed race lad and a picture of a gorilla with the caption, is Ross Barklay the missing link between man and beast is pretty fucking indefensible, don't you? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 16, 2017 0:08:47 GMT
I had no idea Barkley was mixed race and it seems nor do a lot of people. I've never given a shit before, I still don't now particularly. I know Liverpool was big on slavery but never it had a big black heritage past being along with Bristol at the forefront of that trade. Even if he did know, he's explained why he reminds him of one, it's not racist is it? Oh, I think posting a link of a mixed race lad and a picture of a gorilla with the caption, is Ross Barklay the missing link between man and beast is pretty fucking indefensible, don't you? That is, what he wrote isn't. |
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Post by Will_75 on Apr 16, 2017 0:17:43 GMT
He knew exactly what he was doing and left enough wriggle room so that people like you with (I'm guessing) the best of intentions would defend his right to say it.
Anyway, I'm not going to convince you, and I'll have three kids high on chocolate in 6 hours' time so I'm off to bed. Night all.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 16, 2017 0:26:05 GMT
He knew exactly what he was doing and left enough wriggle room so that people like you with (I'm guessing) the best of intentions would defend his right to say it. Anyway, I'm not going to convince you, and I'll have three kids high on chocolate in 6 hours' time so I'm off to bed. Night all. I just don't think what he wrote is in any way racist tbh. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 16, 2017 0:37:05 GMT
I had no idea Barkley was mixed race and it seems nor do a lot of people. I've never given a shit before, I still don't now particularly. I know Liverpool was big on slavery but never it had a big black heritage past being along with Bristol at the forefront of that trade. Even if he did know, he's explained why he reminds him of one, it's not racist is it? Oh, I think posting a link of a mixed race lad and a picture of a gorilla with the caption, is Ross Barklay the missing link between man and beast is pretty fucking indefensible, don't you?
I think it's a pretty indefensible caption irrespective of the person's target's ethnic heritage and I also think it's entirely plausible that MacKenzie didn't realise what Barkley's heritage was, nor that the Hillsborough anniversary was upon us.
He's always struck me as a horrible, thick cunt actually.
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Post by staffsvilla on Apr 16, 2017 7:59:29 GMT
Why is everyone so quick to try disabuse the racist element of this? It wasn't very long ago (when Barkley first got near the England team) that I read few articles about him and a few other players' (i.e. Sterling) choice to play for England when other countries were available MacKenzie knew exactly what he was doing. Nasty dog-whistle racist shite tagged onto a deliberately timed dig at Liverpool. And so called football fans on here are falling for his faux-naive defence? Wake up lads. Imagine if it had been Oakwell rather than Hillsborough and you still had cunts like MacKenzie digging your city out, slagging off say Saido or Ramadan, and dickheads like StaffsVilla coming on here to say that despite at the evidence to the contrary, with disclosure fought for for decades by grieving parents, that it was still the fault of he people of Stoke on Trent? Not once have I said in any post it was all the fault of Liverpool fans, i said they have to accept their behaviour on the day contributed to what happened, as you say the evidence of neglect by the authorities is overwhelming and undisputed but to say fans behaviour had no bearing on what happened is just simply ludicrous,oh and thanks for the insult it really hurt  |
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Post by PotteringThrough on Apr 16, 2017 8:22:20 GMT
Why is everyone so quick to try disabuse the racist element of this? It wasn't very long ago (when Barkley first got near the England team) that I read few articles about him and a few other players' (i.e. Sterling) choice to play for England when other countries were available MacKenzie knew exactly what he was doing. Nasty dog-whistle racist shite tagged onto a deliberately timed dig at Liverpool. And so called football fans on here are falling for his faux-naive defence? Wake up lads. Imagine if it had been Oakwell rather than Hillsborough and you still had cunts like MacKenzie digging your city out, slagging off say Saido or Ramadan, and dickheads like StaffsVilla coming on here to say that despite at the evidence to the contrary, with disclosure fought for for decades by grieving parents, that it was still the fault of he people of Stoke on Trent? Not once have I said in any post it was all the fault of Liverpool fans, i said they have to accept their behaviour on the day contributed to what happened, as you say the evidence of neglect by the authorities is overwhelming and undisputed but to say fans behaviour had no bearing on what happened is just simply ludicrous,oh and thanks for the insult it really hurt Can I please ask - Where is your evidence that the fans did contribute to what happened? Or are you still going off the original statements? |
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Post by staffsvilla on Apr 16, 2017 8:42:58 GMT
Not once have I said in any post it was all the fault of Liverpool fans, i said they have to accept their behaviour on the day contributed to what happened, as you say the evidence of neglect by the authorities is overwhelming and undisputed but to say fans behaviour had no bearing on what happened is just simply ludicrous,oh and thanks for the insult it really hurt Can I please ask - Where is your evidence that the fans did contribute to what happened? Or are you still going off the original statements? Everyone has seen the footage from the day the volume of fans arriving late caused the police to panic and open the gates, there is no doubt some did not have tickets as Liverpool fans had used the same tactics home and abroad on many occasions,as did many fans in those days, sadly all the victims had tickets their only "mistake" was to get in ground early only to be let down by the poor organisation and general panic on the day, their is no evidence required to support that which we have all seen time and time again |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 16, 2017 8:58:23 GMT
Can I please ask - Where is your evidence that the fans did contribute to what happened? Or are you still going off the original statements? Everyone has seen the footage from the day the volume of fans arriving late caused the police to panic and open the gates, there is no doubt some did not have tickets as Liverpool fans had used the same tactics home and abroad on many occasions,as did many fans in those days, sadly all the victims had tickets their only "mistake" was to get in ground early only to be let down by the poor organisation and general panic on the day, their is no evidence required to support that which we have all seen time and time again SO a three year independent panel that inspected half a million documents which led to the original inquests being quashed followed by a new 2 year inquest which ultimately led to the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom saying in the mother of all parliaments '"The families and survivors now have official confirmation of what they always knew was the case - that the Liverpool fans were utterly blameless for the disaster that unfolded at Hillsborough." isn't enough for you. Just what is it you're actually looking for? |
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Post by Davef on Apr 16, 2017 9:12:50 GMT
Can I please ask - Where is your evidence that the fans did contribute to what happened? Or are you still going off the original statements? Everyone has seen the footage from the day the volume of fans arriving late caused the police to panic and open the gates, there is no doubt some did not have tickets as Liverpool fans had used the same tactics home and abroad on many occasions,as did many fans in those days, sadly all the victims had tickets their only "mistake" was to get in ground early only to be let down by the poor organisation and general panic on the day, their is no evidence required to support that which we have all seen time and time again You aren't/weren't a member of West Midlands' finest by any chance? |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Apr 16, 2017 9:24:58 GMT
Can I please ask - Where is your evidence that the fans did contribute to what happened? Or are you still going off the original statements? Everyone has seen the footage from the day the volume of fans arriving late caused the police to panic and open the gates, there is no doubt some did not have tickets as Liverpool fans had used the same tactics home and abroad on many occasions,as did many fans in those days, sadly all the victims had tickets their only "mistake" was to get in ground early only to be let down by the poor organisation and general panic on the day, their is no evidence required to support that which we have all seen time and time again Spot on mate. We don't allow the truth anymore on The Oatcake. We have to toe the official line nowadays. Going back 40 years the house that I grew up in on Butler Street that backed onto the old Stoke End. Every time we played Liverpool or Everton hundreds & hundreds of their supporters used to climb over and get in without paying. NO OTHER CLUB did this. We used to say then that sooner or later somebody would get crushed. Then along came Hillsborough & HEYSEL. Nothing to do with Liverpool fans was it? Now sit back and watch the conditioned response. ??? |
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