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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 11:20:02 GMT
Mackenzie is a vile turd who should be flushed away and not given a platform for his hatred along with Katie Hopkins I wish they were posted to North Korea and that's being kind I wish this had come about a couple of weeks ago and they were exiled to some Afghan tunnels. |
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Post by staffsvilla on Apr 15, 2017 11:23:01 GMT
I totally get that mate i honestly do, but ffs Hillsborough is more written about, remembered that any other event in recent history and i will go to my grave convinced that Liverpool fans were more at fault for Hillsborough than heysel Well after 28 years I'm not prepared to go into all that again. Other than to say the reason some people still think that (despite mountains of evidence demonstrating otherwise) is partly because of Mackenzie and the lies he plastered on his front page. Mate i respect your and everyone elses opinion on this, i was at heysel and saw it all unfold from the side stand and it was one of the most horrific sights I've ever seen, but the point everybody missed was it was not just a random charge but a retaliation to a hell of a lot of stuff from juve fans, Hillsborough was a massive unforgivable neglect of duty by the authorities but please don't try and tell me ,they were all sober,they all had tickets or that they all turned up early enough to the ground, what happened there could of happened to any teams fans in those days at any number of grounds, but to say they were blameless is just not realistic |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 15, 2017 11:27:59 GMT
Well after 28 years I'm not prepared to go into all that again. Other than to say the reason some people still think that (despite mountains of evidence demonstrating otherwise) is partly because of Mackenzie and the lies he plastered on his front page. Mate i respect your and everyone elses opinion on this, i was at heysel and saw it all unfold from the side stand and it was one of the most horrific sights I've ever seen, but the point everybody missed was it was not just a random charge but a retaliation to a hell of a lot of stuff from juve fans, Hillsborough was a massive unforgivable neglect of duty by the authorities but please don't try and tell me ,they were all sober,they all had tickets or that they all turned up early enough to the ground, what happened there could of happened to any teams fans in those days at any number of grounds, but to say they were blameless is just not realistic Hang on a minute staffs....you at the start basically said the story was being overreacted to because of Hillsborough etc. and that's irrelevant to this story, but are now trying to drag the whole situation up again and lay blame at the door of the Liverpool fans (despite it being proved to be completely inaccurate by people who have seen THOUSANDS of pages of evidence that you or i haven't)??? Is that hypocritical, brave or simply stupid on your part??? |
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 15, 2017 11:28:02 GMT
Well after 28 years I'm not prepared to go into all that again. Other than to say the reason some people still think that (despite mountains of evidence demonstrating otherwise) is partly because of Mackenzie and the lies he plastered on his front page. Mate i respect your and everyone elses opinion on this, i was at heysel and saw it all unfold from the side stand and it was one of the most horrific sights I've ever seen, but the point everybody missed was it was not just a random charge but a retaliation to a hell of a lot of stuff from juve fans, Hillsborough was a massive unforgivable neglect of duty by the authorities but please don't try and tell me ,they were all sober,they all had tickets or that they all turned up early enough to the ground, what happened there could of happened to any teams fans in those days at any number of grounds, but to say they were blameless is just not realistic The thing is that Juventus and liverpool had a combined average attendance of about 135,000 that season. UEFA put the game in a stadium that held nothing near that. 40,000? Journalists from England and Italy made a trip before the game to visit the stadium and pleaded with UEFA to switch the match. The ground was literally falling apart. UEFA ignored the request. When they went for a walk around the pitch before kick off Alan Hansen and Alan Kennedy were amazed to find huge lumps of concrete being thrown at them by some of the Italians. They realised that it was actually parts of the terracing that were crumbling. Bizarrely, there was a huge section where Juventus and Liverpool supporters were on the same end seperated by flimsy chicken wire. There was also a section reserved for neutrals where, predictably, the tickets were touted to Liverpool and Juventus fans. There will have been some animosity on behalf of some of the Liverpool contingent regarding the Liverpool fan murdered in Rome the previous year. When Juventus supporters started throwing missiles at the Liverpool section some the Liverpool section ran at them. This led to panic and the Italians raced to the opposite end of the terrace where the wall collapsed. It was the collapse of the wall which lead to the majority of deaths. Thge most disturbing memory of the entire evening was the man who looked like Pavarotti holding his hand out for help as the life drained from him. Anyone who remembers the footage of the wall collapsing will recall that it just crumbled like, well, like a wall in a stadium unfit to host a huge football match. A while before any violence occured the Juventus section unveiled a banner saying 'Red Animals". During the carnage a Juventus follower was seen firing a gun. There was plenty of people there, on both sides prepared to do some ugly things. Combine the inadequate amount of tickets available, the antagonism between both sets of supporters, the stadium crumbling, the sheer disorgnisation it was all pointing one way. To just blame Liverpool supporters is a highly inaccurate portrayal of a truly horrific incident. |
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Post by staffsvilla on Apr 15, 2017 11:31:10 GMT
Mate i respect your and everyone elses opinion on this, i was at heysel and saw it all unfold from the side stand and it was one of the most horrific sights I've ever seen, but the point everybody missed was it was not just a random charge but a retaliation to a hell of a lot of stuff from juve fans, Hillsborough was a massive unforgivable neglect of duty by the authorities but please don't try and tell me ,they were all sober,they all had tickets or that they all turned up early enough to the ground, what happened there could of happened to any teams fans in those days at any number of grounds, but to say they were blameless is just not realistic The thing is that Juventus and liverpool had a combined average attendance of about 135,000 that season. UEFA put the game in a stadium that held nothing near that. 40,000? Journalists from England and Italy made a trip before the game to visit the stadium and pleaded with UEFA to switch the match. The ground was literally falling apart. UEFA ignored the request. When they went for a walk around the pitch before kick off Alan Hansen and Alan Kennedy were amazed to find huge lumps of concrete being thrown at them by some of the Italians. They realised that it was actually parts of the terracing that were crumbling. Bizarrely, there was a huge section where Juventus and Liverpool supporters were on the same end seperated by flimsy chicken wire. There was also a section reserved for neutrals where, predictably, the tickets were touted to Liverpool and Juventus fans. There will have been some animosity on behalf of some of the Liverpool contingent regarding the Liverpool fan murdered in Rome the previous year. When Juventus supporters started throwing missiles at the Liverpool section some the Liverpool section ran at them. This led to panic and the Italians raced to the opposite end of the terrace where the wall collapsed. It was the collapse of the wall which lead to the majority of deaths. Thge most disturbing memory of the entire evening was the man who looked like Pavarotti holding his hand out for help as the life drained from him. Anyone who remembers the footage of the wall collapsing will recall that it just crumbled like, well, like a wall in a stadium unfit to host a huge football match. A while before any violence occured the Juventus section unveiled a banner saying 'Red Animals". During the carnage a Juventus follower was seen firing a gun. There was plenty of people there, on both sides prepared to do some ugly things. Combine the inadequate amount of tickets available, the antagonism between both sets of supporters, the stadium crumbling, the sheer disorgnisation it was all pointing one way. To just blame Liverpool supporters is a highly inaccurate portrayal of a truly horrific incident. Great post mate  |
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 15, 2017 11:34:47 GMT
Well after 28 years I'm not prepared to go into all that again. Other than to say the reason some people still think that (despite mountains of evidence demonstrating otherwise) is partly because of Mackenzie and the lies he plastered on his front page. Mate i respect your and everyone elses opinion on this, i was at heysel and saw it all unfold from the side stand and it was one of the most horrific sights I've ever seen, but the point everybody missed was it was not just a random charge but a retaliation to a hell of a lot of stuff from juve fans, Hillsborough was a massive unforgivable neglect of duty by the authorities but please don't try and tell me ,they were all sober,they all had tickets or that they all turned up early enough to the ground, what happened there could of happened to any teams fans in those days at any number of grounds, but to say they were blameless is just not realistic People turn up for all big games without tickets but at Hillsborough at no stage was there too many people on the Leppings Lane Terrace. There might have been some drunkenness but anymore than at any other game? There is no proof of that. In fact one thing indictive of the establishment lies in the initial inquiry was a police chief saying Liverpool fas were marching through Sheffield drinking 'carafes of wine'. Can you fucking believe that? And for over 20 years it was an official document. Can you imagine going to a game and carrying a carafe of wine down the street? In 1989 nobody knew what wine was! But it was in the inquiry and people believed it. |
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Post by staffsvilla on Apr 15, 2017 11:37:04 GMT
Mate i respect your and everyone elses opinion on this, i was at heysel and saw it all unfold from the side stand and it was one of the most horrific sights I've ever seen, but the point everybody missed was it was not just a random charge but a retaliation to a hell of a lot of stuff from juve fans, Hillsborough was a massive unforgivable neglect of duty by the authorities but please don't try and tell me ,they were all sober,they all had tickets or that they all turned up early enough to the ground, what happened there could of happened to any teams fans in those days at any number of grounds, but to say they were blameless is just not realistic Hang on a minute staffs....you at the start basically said the story was being overreacted to because of Hillsborough etc. and that's irrelevant to this story, but are now trying to drag the whole situation up again and lay blame at the door of the Liverpool fans (despite it being proved to be completely inaccurate by people who have seen THOUSANDS of pages of evidence that you or i haven't)??? Is that hypocritical, brave or simply stupid on your part??? If you honestly believe NO blame was down to Liverpool fans i give up,nobody can dispute the neglect by the authorities like i have said, what i also said "to say they were BLAMELESS (not totally to blame) is just not realistic |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 15, 2017 11:38:54 GMT
Hang on a minute staffs....you at the start basically said the story was being overreacted to because of Hillsborough etc. and that's irrelevant to this story, but are now trying to drag the whole situation up again and lay blame at the door of the Liverpool fans (despite it being proved to be completely inaccurate by people who have seen THOUSANDS of pages of evidence that you or i haven't)??? Is that hypocritical, brave or simply stupid on your part??? If you honestly believe NO blame was down to Liverpool fans i give up,nobody can dispute the neglect by the authorities like i have said, what i also said "to say they were BLAMELESS (not totally to blame) is just not realistic Ok... so you DO want to turn this into a Hillsborough thread then despite initially saying Hillsborough should be irrelevant to our judgment of the article. Stupidity confirmed |
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Post by Davef on Apr 15, 2017 11:39:00 GMT
Hang on a minute staffs....you at the start basically said the story was being overreacted to because of Hillsborough etc. and that's irrelevant to this story, but are now trying to drag the whole situation up again and lay blame at the door of the Liverpool fans (despite it being proved to be completely inaccurate by people who have seen THOUSANDS of pages of evidence that you or i haven't)??? Is that hypocritical, brave or simply stupid on your part??? If you honestly believe NO blame was down to Liverpool fans i give up,nobody can dispute the neglect by the authorities like i have said, what i also said "to say they were BLAMELESS (not totally to blame) is just not realistic Please, give up. |
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Post by Anto1962 on Apr 15, 2017 11:39:54 GMT
Mate i respect your and everyone elses opinion on this, i was at heysel and saw it all unfold from the side stand and it was one of the most horrific sights I've ever seen, but the point everybody missed was it was not just a random charge but a retaliation to a hell of a lot of stuff from juve fans, Hillsborough was a massive unforgivable neglect of duty by the authorities but please don't try and tell me ,they were all sober,they all had tickets or that they all turned up early enough to the ground, what happened there could of happened to any teams fans in those days at any number of grounds, but to say they were blameless is just not realistic The thing is that Juventus and liverpool had a combined average attendance of about 135,000 that season. UEFA put the game in a stadium that held nothing near that. 40,000? Journalists from England and Italy made a trip before the game to visit the stadium and pleaded with UEFA to switch the match. The ground was literally falling apart. UEFA ignored the request. When they went for a walk around the pitch before kick off Alan Hansen and Alan Kennedy were amazed to find huge lumps of concrete being thrown at them by some of the Italians. They realised that it was actually parts of the terracing that were crumbling. Bizarrely, there was a huge section where Juventus and Liverpool supporters were on the same end seperated by flimsy chicken wire. There was also a section reserved for neutrals where, predictably, the tickets were touted to Liverpool and Juventus fans. There will have been some animosity on behalf of some of the Liverpool contingent regarding the Liverpool fan murdered in Rome the previous year. When Juventus supporters started throwing missiles at the Liverpool section some the Liverpool section ran at them. This led to panic and the Italians raced to the opposite end of the terrace where the wall collapsed. It was the collapse of the wall which lead to the majority of deaths. Thge most disturbing memory of the entire evening was the man who looked like Pavarotti holding his hand out for help as the life drained from him. Anyone who remembers the footage of the wall collapsing will recall that it just crumbled like, well, like a wall in a stadium unfit to host a huge football match. A while before any violence occured the Juventus section unveiled a banner saying 'Red Animals". During the carnage a Juventus follower was seen firing a gun. There was plenty of people there, on both sides prepared to do some ugly things. Combine the inadequate amount of tickets available, the antagonism between both sets of supporters, the stadium crumbling, the sheer disorgnisation it was all pointing one way. To just blame Liverpool supporters is a highly inaccurate portrayal of a truly horrific incident. Outstanding and highly accurate post, I can actually see the events unfolding as I read it, well done Joe. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 11:41:00 GMT
Breaking now on The BBC...Everton have followed LFC and banned the Sun from their ground.
Can't really see the Sun being bothered as I don't think too many outlets sell it there.
Out of interest does anyone know if the big outlets, like Petrol Stations, Supermarkets etc etc etc sell it on Merseyside...I know hardly any newsagents do.
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Post by staffsvilla on Apr 15, 2017 11:43:38 GMT
If you honestly believe NO blame was down to Liverpool fans i give up,nobody can dispute the neglect by the authorities like i have said, what i also said "to say they were BLAMELESS (not totally to blame) is just not realistic Ok... so you DO want to turn this into a Hillsborough thread then despite initially saying Hillsborough should be irrelevant to our judgment of the article. Stupidity confirmed I said i respected everyone's opinion on this as it's only a discussion on a message board, you choose to call me stupid, i think that says more about you than me |
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Post by liamo on Apr 15, 2017 11:50:10 GMT
The only thing The Sun had going for it was a pair of tits, it's always been shit
They are to journalism what diarrhoea is to art
Take the paper, everyone involved with it and eject it in to the actual sun
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Post by werrington on Apr 15, 2017 11:50:59 GMT
Breaking now on The BBC...Everton have followed LFC and banned the Sun from their ground. Can't really see the Sun being bothered as I don't think too many outlets sell it there. Out of interest does anyone know if the big outlets, like Petrol Stations, Supermarkets etc etc etc sell it on Merseyside...I know hardly any newsagents do. No they don't mate And the sun will be bothered as they now have no access for their reporters to the managers press conferences or the match day media section The only way they can now cover games is if they buy a ticket |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 15, 2017 11:51:50 GMT
Ok... so you DO want to turn this into a Hillsborough thread then despite initially saying Hillsborough should be irrelevant to our judgment of the article. Stupidity confirmed I said i respected everyone's opinion on this as it's only a discussion on a message board, you choose to call me stupid, i think that says more about you than me So you don't think it's stupid to firstly have a go at people for apparently dragging Hillsborough into it when it should be irrelevant to our judgment of this matter, then blaming Liverpool fans for Hillsborough (which hadn't been mentioned by anyone at all on this thread...or even by McKenzie in the article being discussed on this thread), then trying to turn the entire thread into a Hillsborough thread? I think that says a lot more about your lack of intelligence than it does me i.e. you're now turning a thread YOU said shouldn't even be discussing Hillsborough into a thread entirely devoted to it...good work fella! |
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Post by staffsvilla on Apr 15, 2017 12:14:22 GMT
I said i respected everyone's opinion on this as it's only a discussion on a message board, you choose to call me stupid, i think that says more about you than me So you don't think it's stupid to firstly have a go at people for apparently dragging Hillsborough into it when it should be irrelevant to our judgment of this matter, then blaming Liverpool fans for Hillsborough (which hadn't been mentioned by anyone at all on this thread...or even by McKenzie in the article being discussed on this thread), then trying to turn the entire thread into a Hillsborough thread? I think that says a lot more about your lack of intelligence than it does me i.e. you're now turning a thread YOU said shouldn't even be discussing Hillsborough into a thread entirely devoted to it...good work fella! Well thank you for you informed opinion of my level of intelligence, for the record i could not give a toss about your childish insults i gave an opinion you and others​ did not agree on that's life, as for turning this into a Hillsborough thread i have to say i could not of done it without your considerable help so if your dishing out the stupidity points help yourself to your share ! |
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Post by wagsastokie on Apr 15, 2017 12:21:42 GMT
Well after all this discussion about Hillsborough
I still think Mackenzie is being grossly unfair to gorillas
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Post by Anto1962 on Apr 15, 2017 12:22:59 GMT
MacKenzie looks like the missing link between man and a sun bathing Pig.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 15, 2017 12:26:10 GMT
Jesus wept! I can't abide the bloke but that is just fucking petty, he's just another victim of pathetic little snowflakes who see racism (and every other type of 'ism') every-fucking-where these days. People refer to Gareth Bale and the twat Keown as 'simian' and 'ape faced cunts' all the time, and if you go back far enough they both have relatives from Africa. So is that a no-no now too? Try to look beyond this mate. That's not the whole story. MacKenzie despises working class people. He has been on that agenda with his newspaper since 1989. All football fans should be united against a paper thats promotes intolerance, hatred and prejudice and was happy to promote widespread police corruption over 20 years. The same people who tap murdered girl's phones. They are part of the reason why it took 23 years to bring out the truth about Hillsborough and just cause you are aren't offended by it, doesn't mean others aren't. |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 15, 2017 12:27:31 GMT
So you don't think it's stupid to firstly have a go at people for apparently dragging Hillsborough into it when it should be irrelevant to our judgment of this matter, then blaming Liverpool fans for Hillsborough (which hadn't been mentioned by anyone at all on this thread...or even by McKenzie in the article being discussed on this thread), then trying to turn the entire thread into a Hillsborough thread? I think that says a lot more about your lack of intelligence than it does me i.e. you're now turning a thread YOU said shouldn't even be discussing Hillsborough into a thread entirely devoted to it...good work fella! Well thank you for you informed opinion of my level of intelligence, for the record i could not give a toss about your childish insults i gave an opinion you and others​ did not agree on that's life, as for turning this into a Hillsborough thread i have to say i could not of done it without your considerable help so if your dishing out the stupidity points help yourself to your share ! You gave an opinion on something you criticised others for mentioning in the first place FFS! If that isn't stupid, then it's certainly massively hypocritical on your part. Without my help? All i've done is criticise you for doing it  You're really losing it all round mate. |
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 15, 2017 12:27:51 GMT
I reckon kelvin didnt know barkleys grandad was nigerian. I certainly didn't Its his f***** job to know. He is a very highly paid journalist. You research the subjects of your article s before you spout off. Basic research. |
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Post by PotteringThrough on Apr 15, 2017 12:28:47 GMT
Just out of curiosity does anyone actually have an opinion on the Barkley incident? He got punched in a nightclub, happens every weekend. Ok I get the extra publicity for a couple of days because he's a footballer but after that does anyone really care?
So why has this "opinion" piece been published if that's the original story?
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 15, 2017 12:32:03 GMT
Just out of curiosity does anyone actually have an opinion on the Barkley incident? He got punched in a nightclub, happens every weekend. Ok I get the extra publicity for a couple of days because he's a footballer but after that does anyone really care? So why has this "opinion" piece been published if that's the original story? That's the point staffsvilla seems to have completely missed mate. As you say, it's an old story that has re-surfaced for no reason in a specific paper from a specific reporter at a specific time but he can't seem to see the connection. His only interest in that connection is apparently in blaming the Liverpool fans. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 15, 2017 12:33:03 GMT
Just out of curiosity does anyone actually have an opinion on the Barkley incident? He got punched in a nightclub, happens every weekend. Ok I get the extra publicity for a couple of days because he's a footballer but after that does anyone really care? So why has this "opinion" piece been published if that's the original story? People do care though. He's in the public eye and people will care about that. I found it amusing but past that I couldn't give a shit. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 15, 2017 12:34:53 GMT
Just out of curiosity does anyone actually have an opinion on the Barkley incident? He got punched in a nightclub, happens every weekend. Ok I get the extra publicity for a couple of days because he's a footballer but after that does anyone really care? So why has this "opinion" piece been published if that's the original story? That's the point staffsvilla seems to have completely missed mate. As you say, it's an old story that has re-surfaced for no reason in a specific paper from a specific reporter at a specific time but he can't seem to see the connection. His only interest in that connection is apparently in blaming the Liverpool fans. Does Mckenzie have a column every day or is just one day of the week? If it's the latter then that's fair enough imo. That's how those columns work. If he has a daily one then it does seem odd it wasn't done on Tuesday. |
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Post by staffsvilla on Apr 15, 2017 12:35:11 GMT
Well thank you for you informed opinion of my level of intelligence, for the record i could not give a toss about your childish insults i gave an opinion you and others​ did not agree on that's life, as for turning this into a Hillsborough thread i have to say i could not of done it without your considerable help so if your dishing out the stupidity points help yourself to your share ! You gave an opinion on something you criticised others for mentioning in the first place FFS! If that isn't stupid, then it's certainly massively hypocritical on your part. Without my help? All i've done is criticise you for doing it You're really losing it all round mate. I'm losing it ? I made a comment at the end of a post and now I'm "stupid" , " hypocritical" or various others ha ha I'll give you your due you have made me laugh, criticism in your world obviously means insults but hey ho don't lose any sleep over it i wont |
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Post by fca47 on Apr 15, 2017 12:37:09 GMT
Don't like McKenzie particularly, but the racism thing is rubbish, you would have no idea that Barkley had Nigerian ancestry. The rest off what he had to say , just shows his bias against the working class made good.
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Post by thegift on Apr 15, 2017 12:41:21 GMT
Racist i think not. Pathetic i agree with.
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Post by Anto1962 on Apr 15, 2017 12:43:41 GMT
Don't like McKenzie particularly, but the racism thing is rubbish, you would have no idea that Barkley had Nigerian ancestry. The rest off what he had to say , just shows his bias against the working class made good. I can see where you are coming from fca but a real journalist, working for a real newspaper would certainly been expected to do his research correctly, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt in that he did'nt know Barcley's background, but he should have. But the sun is not a real newspaper and MacKenzie is a very poor journalist. |
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 15, 2017 12:44:20 GMT
Don't like McKenzie particularly, but the racism thing is rubbish, you would have no idea that Barkley had Nigerian ancestry. The rest off what he had to say , just shows his bias against the working class made good. In the first week of any basic journalism course you would learn that if you are going to write an article about an individual then you research that individual first. You might not have have known that he has Nigerian ancestory, but then again you are not paid to know. He is. He is not a first year journalism student. He is very highly paid and been the business for over 30 years. It this job to know. A journalist who cant even be arsed to use wikipedia!!!!!!! that's a sackable offence in itself! Wikipedia "Barkley was eligible to represent both England and Nigeria as he has a Nigerian grandfather. Barkley opted to represent his country of birth.[31] He has represented England at under-16, under-17, under-19, under-20, under-21 and senior level.[32]" |
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