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Post by salopstick on Aug 25, 2023 16:38:59 GMT
You will never change the opinions to any pro or anti trump supporters
However the hounding of trump both before during and after his presidential is political.
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Post by slippyblunger on Aug 25, 2023 16:45:46 GMT
You will never change the opinions to any pro or anti trump supporters However the hounding of trump both before during and after his presidential is political. That basically sums the entire thread up for me. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 25, 2023 17:16:36 GMT
You will never change the opinions to any pro or anti trump supporters However the hounding of trump both before during and after his presidential is political. And what about his alleged criminality? Do you think each of the multiple charges are purely political and have no evidential basis? If so, he will be cleared of each and every charge. His incitement of violence was awful and he is the worst loser of any election in US history. He undermines democracy. His politics is irrelevant. It is for the above reasons he shouldn’t stand for President and people shouldn’t vote for him. The republican party should get a serious candidate. Biden is there for the taking. |
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Post by Gawa on Aug 25, 2023 17:23:18 GMT
The MSM in the UK, just like the modern Torys are socially Liberal - I couldn't disagree with this statement more on both claims. Alot of the examples which you've provided there I don't actually see when I read the news websites. If I enter "The Clown Thread" then I'll see plenty of tweets posted by CrouchPotato and TheDrunkenCommunist and stuff relating to trans, blm, green protestors and whatever else. But when I look on the news myself I don't see it so much. And I certainly don't see the Daily Mail or Telegraph engaging in slaggin britain off, promoting transgender etc.. To me it feels more like social media algorithms are what's influencing peoples opinions alot more than Main Stream Media. People seem to think that because they end up seeing a particular group, post or page on facebook that this accounts as finding news themselves and doing their own research. But they don't ever consider the algorithms which influence the stuff which appears on your social media. It feels a bit like if it's found on social media then it means the person behind the page is trustworthy and how you got there to find the particular page or youtube video is entirely down to yourself too with no background influences. And who controls those algorithms? Zuckerburg, Musk and a few others. In my opinion both Zukcerberg and Musk tend to lean right as well but because it's a social network nobody considers that they could also be influencing things? Your last paragraph I agree completely with and that's quite worrying to think about. I want to make it clear as well I'm not trying to say here I'm right and your wrong. I'm literally just raising the things which come to my mind when it comes to Trump and stating what I think. I don't think I'm any more informed than others on here, if anything I'm probably less informed than most as I don't follow US politics in any depth. I'm just enjoying the debate around MSM influence and stuff more as that's stuff I am a bit more interested in. Good points well made mate. The way you put your points across without feeling the needs to insult or to use a arrogant condescending tone are much more likely to get the 'other side' thinking. Exactly how a debate should be. Same to you mate and I agree with the poster after too about it being unlikely we will change anyone's views. But being able to discuss it in a respectful way is still progress as it expands the minds and thoughts of both of us. I'm not a trump expert by any means and should read more on Trumps side too to get a wider view. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 25, 2023 17:28:43 GMT
The Trump support being thick is a fucking stupid argument to be honest - in the Independence referendum I could point to as many knuckle dragging orange order types as I could Poundland Patriots. 74m people voted for him - they can't all be morons! 'If Liberals are so fucking smart how come they lose so god dam always?' How many of those 74m actually voted for Trump? Were they actually voting against Biden/the Democrats because that’s how them and their family and friends and neighbours always vote? The US voting system makes ours look almost democratic. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2023 17:42:05 GMT
You will never change the opinions to any pro or anti trump supporters However the hounding of trump both before during and after his presidential is political. And what about his alleged criminality? Do you think each of the multiple charges are purely political and have no evidential basis? If so, he will be cleared of each and every charge. His incitement of violence was awful and he is the worst loser of any election in US history. He undermines democracy. His politics is irrelevant. It is for the above reasons he shouldn’t stand for President and people shouldn’t vote for him. The republican party should get a serious candidate. Biden is there for the taking. As things stand, the dubious honour of worst response to an election defeat still goes to Breckinridge, I’m afraid. To go from 3rd place on the ticket to Secretary of War for the Confederacy does take some beating. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 25, 2023 17:55:59 GMT
And what about his alleged criminality? Do you think each of the multiple charges are purely political and have no evidential basis? If so, he will be cleared of each and every charge. His incitement of violence was awful and he is the worst loser of any election in US history. He undermines democracy. His politics is irrelevant. It is for the above reasons he shouldn’t stand for President and people shouldn’t vote for him. The republican party should get a serious candidate. Biden is there for the taking. As things stand, the dubious honour of worst response to an election defeat still goes to Breckinridge, I’m afraid. To go from 3rd place on the ticket to Secretary of War for the Confederacy does take some beating. You clearly know a lot more than I do on the subject, but is it really worse than inciting supporters to storm the Capitol and throw every single toy out of the pram? |
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Post by salopstick on Aug 25, 2023 18:01:08 GMT
You will never change the opinions to any pro or anti trump supporters However the hounding of trump both before during and after his presidential is political. And what about his alleged criminality? Do you think each of the multiple charges are purely political and have no evidential basis? If so, he will be cleared of each and every charge. His incitement of violence was awful and he is the worst loser of any election in US history. He undermines democracy. His politics is irrelevant. It is for the above reasons he shouldn’t stand for President and people shouldn’t vote for him. The republican party should get a serious candidate. Biden is there for the taking. Let’s see if any of these charges stick |
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 25, 2023 18:22:06 GMT
And what about his alleged criminality? Do you think each of the multiple charges are purely political and have no evidential basis? If so, he will be cleared of each and every charge. His incitement of violence was awful and he is the worst loser of any election in US history. He undermines democracy. His politics is irrelevant. It is for the above reasons he shouldn’t stand for President and people shouldn’t vote for him. The republican party should get a serious candidate. Biden is there for the taking. Let’s see if any of these charges stick If none of them stick, they may as well hand him the keys to the White House immediately. In my view, regardless of criminality, his desperate and pathetic attempts to undermine democracy, which placed lives at risk, are more than enough reason not to vote for him. |
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Post by wannabee on Aug 25, 2023 18:57:21 GMT
Try checking the accuracy of any of those claims. I don't know if ST3 is on a wind up or being serious but to answer your question During the Trump Presidency The economy lost 2.9 million jobs. The unemployment rate increased by 1.6 percentage points to 6.3%. Paychecks grew faster than inflation. Average weekly earnings for all workers were up 8.7% after inflation. After-tax corporate profits went up, and the stock market set new records. The S&P 500 index rose 67.8%. The international trade deficit Trump promised to reduce went up. The U.S. trade deficit in goods and services in 2020 was the highest since 2008 and increased 40.5% from 2016. The number of people lacking health insurance rose by 3 million. The federal debt held by the public went up, from $14.4 trillion to $21.6 trillion. Home prices rose 27.5%, and the homeownership rate increased 2.1 percentage points to 65.8%. Illegal immigration increased. Apprehensions at the Southwest border rose 14.7% last year compared with 2016. Coal production declined 26.5%, and coal-mining jobs dropped by 16.7%. Carbon emissions from energy consumption dropped 11.5%. Handgun production rose 12.5% last year compared with 2016, setting a new record. The murder rate last year rose to the highest level since 1997. Trump filled one-third of the Supreme Court, nearly 30% of the appellate court seats and a quarter of District Court seats. www.factcheck.org/2021/10/trumps-final-numbers/ |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 25, 2023 19:06:54 GMT
 Oh, Crappy! I did wonder...back on here is he? No they aren't all like this but thousands upon thousands of them are, it's like a cult.
And I'm sure many republican candidates would also give your friends what they want, it doesn't have to be Trump I'd guess?
It's funny to see the pink haired lefty brigade crying in the streets though like petulant teenagers so it's better if it's Trump 😂. Erm...could well be... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2023 19:16:38 GMT
As things stand, the dubious honour of worst response to an election defeat still goes to Breckinridge, I’m afraid. To go from 3rd place on the ticket to Secretary of War for the Confederacy does take some beating. You clearly know a lot more than I do on the subject, but is it really worse than inciting supporters to storm the Capitol and throw every single toy out of the pram? So, the results of that election were seen as the catalyst for the Confederacy. Democrats didn’t like losing, were infuriated that a Republican won without any Southern support and built an army, fearing that they’d lose their slave-holding power. What Trump has done is shocking and angers me a lot. However, he didn’t lead a Civil War (and he won’t, either). |
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Post by slippyblunger on Aug 25, 2023 19:23:56 GMT
You clearly know a lot more than I do on the subject, but is it really worse than inciting supporters to storm the Capitol and throw every single toy out of the pram? So, the results of that election were seen as the catalyst for the Confederacy. Democrats didn’t like losing, were infuriated that a Republican won without any Southern support and built an army, fearing that they’d lose their slave-holding power. What Trump has done is shocking and angers me a lot. However, he didn’t lead a Civil War (and he won’t, either). Maybe the South will rise again but instead of Robert E Lee it will be Trump with the 'sabre in his hand' 😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2023 19:39:06 GMT
So, the results of that election were seen as the catalyst for the Confederacy. Democrats didn’t like losing, were infuriated that a Republican won without any Southern support and built an army, fearing that they’d lose their slave-holding power. What Trump has done is shocking and angers me a lot. However, he didn’t lead a Civil War (and he won’t, either). Maybe the South will rise again but instead of Robert E Lee it will be Trump with the 'sabre in his hand' 😂 I know that this is in jest (I hope) but a lot of people talk about “division” and, “there will be another war”. To me, I just don’t see it. I see a lot of talk occurring amongst people that would have never met before in other generations. I think that the pursuing arguments makes some feel more isolated than before, perhaps. I think that this is not really the case. People still have their friends, it’s just that our current generation actively seek to talk to others we’ve never met. I personally don’t see a day coming anytime soon where there will be sufficient impetus to go out there and fight each other in a literal Civil War. As a people, we are softer, we see more nuance, we are less religious and value life more. I don’t see a day anytime soon where the country would split in two: not even for Trump. Edit: we are also a lot more “free” in this decade than we have perhaps ever been. While one may hate the Tory’s, Labour, Republicans or Democrats, there is a huge difference now between opportunities available and ceilings for the everyday worker. Perhaps there was a glory generation for those born just after the Second World War (added this because I know that we all like to bash each other’s generations and say those that came before had it easier). It doesn’t matter because life in 2023 has many, many more freedoms than life before the Civil War. For that reason, I don’t see such a thing being easy to replicate. American’s simply have too much to lose. |
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Post by slippyblunger on Aug 25, 2023 19:58:56 GMT
Maybe the South will rise again but instead of Robert E Lee it will be Trump with the 'sabre in his hand' 😂 I know that this is in jest (I hope) but a lot of people talk about “division” and, “there will be another war”. To me, I just don’t see it. I see a lot of talk occurring amongst people that would have never met before in other generations. I think that the pursuing arguments makes some feel more isolated than before, perhaps. I think that this is not really the case. People still have their friends, it’s just that our current generation actively seek to talk to others we’ve never met. I personally don’t see a day coming anytime soon where there will be sufficient impetus to go out there and fight each other in a literal Civil War. As a people, we are softer, we see more nuance, we are less religious and value life more. I don’t see a day anytime soon where the country would split in two: not even for Trump. I don't know mate. I get your point and I think I agree with it in the main but I wouldn't be surprised one bit if I did end up with in full scale civil war. It's bigger than Trump, it's bigger than Biden. Community spirit and the human connection has definitely been lost over the last couple of decades due to a wide range of factors and there is a lot of pure hatred out there between opposing ideologies. It's been said that WWIII or this generations war will be a spiritual one. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2023 20:04:31 GMT
I know that this is in jest (I hope) but a lot of people talk about “division” and, “there will be another war”. To me, I just don’t see it. I see a lot of talk occurring amongst people that would have never met before in other generations. I think that the pursuing arguments makes some feel more isolated than before, perhaps. I think that this is not really the case. People still have their friends, it’s just that our current generation actively seek to talk to others we’ve never met. I personally don’t see a day coming anytime soon where there will be sufficient impetus to go out there and fight each other in a literal Civil War. As a people, we are softer, we see more nuance, we are less religious and value life more. I don’t see a day anytime soon where the country would split in two: not even for Trump. I don't know mate. I get your point and I think I agree with it in the main but I wouldn't be surprised one bit if I did end up with in full scale civil war. It's bigger than Trump, it's bigger than Biden. Community spirit and the human connection has definitely been lost over the last couple of decades due to a wide range of factors and there is a lot of pure hatred out there between opposing ideologies. It's been said that WWIII or this generations war will be a spiritual one. I do agree that there is division. Just nowhere near what people like to make out. However, in my opinion, hatred isn’t enough for war. War won’t start over small shifts in identity politics in the US (in my opinion). If there is (when) a next huge war, it will come as a result of dwindling resources. People can be unhappy with their government all they like but we have so many distractions nowadays. It’s easy to turn that off. How would a Civil War even start in the US? Imagine the challenges of coordinating a resistance in secret and gaining enough support to overthrow a government. I don’t see how it’s possible to do that unless something like rationing came into it. I think that “never more divided” is a great sales pitch that both sides use too often. They do it because it grabs people’s attention. The US has been far more divided in decades gone by: slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow, Civil Rights, Gay Rights, Women’s Suffrage, Vietnam. These were all tremendously divisive national issues that I feel were bigger sparks than whether a very limited number of men like to wear a dress or not. Edit: i’m sure as shit though that if I am wrong, draft dodger Trump won’t be leading the lines with a saber. But I could also just be naive and have at least one eye if not a whole head in the sand! I hope I’ll not be proven wrong. |
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Post by slippyblunger on Aug 25, 2023 20:23:33 GMT
I don't know mate. I get your point and I think I agree with it in the main but I wouldn't be surprised one bit if I did end up with in full scale civil war. It's bigger than Trump, it's bigger than Biden. Community spirit and the human connection has definitely been lost over the last couple of decades due to a wide range of factors and there is a lot of pure hatred out there between opposing ideologies. It's been said that WWIII or this generations war will be a spiritual one. I do agree that there is division. Just nowhere near what people like to make out. However, in my opinion, hatred isn’t enough for war. War won’t start over small shifts in identity politics in the US (in my opinion). If there is (when) a next huge war, it will come as a result of dwindling resources. People can be unhappy with their government all they like but we have so many distractions nowadays. It’s easy to turn that off. How would a Civil War even start in the US? Imagine the challenges of coordinating a resistance in secret and gaining enough support to overthrow a government. I don’t see how it’s possible to do that unless something like rationing came into it. I think that “never more divided” is a great sales pitch that both sides use too often. They do it because it grabs people’s attention. The US has been far more divided in decades gone by: slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow, Civil Rights, Gay Rights, Women’s Suffrage. These were all tremendously divisive national issues that I feel were bigger sparks than whether a very limited number of men like to wear a dress or not. Edit: i’m sure as shit though that if I am wrong, draft dodger Trump won’t be leading the lines with a saber. I can't argue with any of that to he fair. Only thing I can probably add is the divisions during Jim Crow are different to the divisions that we see today. As humans we can have ambition and strive for money and material possessions all we want and money is king in the West but when the soul gets beaten down and people lose purpose and we lose all human connectivity and interaction then the type of division I'm talking about can only get deeper, hence my previous comment about a spiritual war. Instead of a civil war maybe Biden and Zuckerberg can tag team up and fight Musk and Trump. I'd definitely pay for that on PPV 😂 |
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Post by salopstick on Aug 25, 2023 20:27:52 GMT
Let’s see if any of these charges stick If none of them stick, they may as well hand him the keys to the White House immediately. In my view, regardless of criminality, his desperate and pathetic attempts to undermine democracy, which placed lives at risk, are more than enough reason not to vote for him. I think the democrats. Party, leaning media, electorate etc undermined trumps election victory from the start. Right or wrong he was elected. They never expected Hillary to lose A bit like how the eu brigade tried to undermine the Brexit vote. |
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Post by swampmongrel on Aug 25, 2023 20:28:39 GMT
The US is rich* They don’t really have to bother with normal politics so it’s all just mental culture war bollocks.
* not every one is rich but the median Yankee family is much richer than the equivalent European one. Albeit with not much of a ‘safety net’.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2023 20:30:41 GMT
I do agree that there is division. Just nowhere near what people like to make out. However, in my opinion, hatred isn’t enough for war. War won’t start over small shifts in identity politics in the US (in my opinion). If there is (when) a next huge war, it will come as a result of dwindling resources. People can be unhappy with their government all they like but we have so many distractions nowadays. It’s easy to turn that off. How would a Civil War even start in the US? Imagine the challenges of coordinating a resistance in secret and gaining enough support to overthrow a government. I don’t see how it’s possible to do that unless something like rationing came into it. I think that “never more divided” is a great sales pitch that both sides use too often. They do it because it grabs people’s attention. The US has been far more divided in decades gone by: slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow, Civil Rights, Gay Rights, Women’s Suffrage. These were all tremendously divisive national issues that I feel were bigger sparks than whether a very limited number of men like to wear a dress or not. Edit: i’m sure as shit though that if I am wrong, draft dodger Trump won’t be leading the lines with a saber. I can't argue with any of that to he fair. Only thing I can probably add is the divisions during Jim Crow are different to the divisions that we see today. As humans we can have ambition and strive for money and material possessions all we want and money is king in the West but when the soul gets beaten down and people lose purpose and we lose all human connectivity and interaction then the type of division I'm talking about can only get deeper, hence my previous comment about a spiritual war. Instead of a civil war maybe Biden and Zuckerberg can tag team up and fight Musk and Trump. I'd definitely pay for that on PPV 😂 R.e. spirituality and disconnection, I would say that it’s sad when people feel disconnected from the World. I do feel that people try to reach too far, though. It’s always been enough to feel connected with family and a group of close friends. Going back to that should be everyone’s basis for a happy life. People spend too much time (myself included) on social media worrying about what people they’ve never met or hardly know have to say. Finding ways to rebalance that so that true personal connections are weighted far more heavily is really important, in my opinion. Millennials are a trial generation for living with social media. It’s in my nature to expect it to get worse but perhaps the younger generation will learn from our mistakes instead and learn to cope with it better. Edit: as for the latter. I don’t like any of them, but I’d expect Zuckerberg to destroy them |
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Post by swampmongrel on Aug 25, 2023 20:33:24 GMT
The US is rich* They don’t really have to bother with normal politics so it’s all just mental culture war bollocks. * not every one is rich but the median Yankee family is much richer than the equivalent European one. Albeit with not much of a ‘safety net’. And yes, ‘mental culture war bollocks’ did support World of Twist etc…. |
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Post by slippyblunger on Aug 25, 2023 20:37:32 GMT
I can't argue with any of that to he fair. Only thing I can probably add is the divisions during Jim Crow are different to the divisions that we see today. As humans we can have ambition and strive for money and material possessions all we want and money is king in the West but when the soul gets beaten down and people lose purpose and we lose all human connectivity and interaction then the type of division I'm talking about can only get deeper, hence my previous comment about a spiritual war. Instead of a civil war maybe Biden and Zuckerberg can tag team up and fight Musk and Trump. I'd definitely pay for that on PPV 😂 R.e. spirituality and disconnection, I would say that it’s sad when people feel disconnected from the World. I do feel that people try to reach too far, though. It’s always been enough to feel connected with family and a group of close friends. Going back to that should be everyone’s basis for a happy life. People spend too much time (myself included) on social media worrying about what people they’ve never met or hardly know have to say. Finding ways to rebalance that so that true personal connections are weighted far more heavily is really important, in my opinion. Millennials are a trial generation for living with social media. It’s in my nature to expect it to get worse but perhaps the younger generation will learn from our mistakes instead and learn to cope with it better. Edit: as for the latter. I don’t like any of them, but I’d expect Zuckerberg to destroy them It would be like watching two characters from the big bang theory having a slapping contest 😂 But yes I agree with the rest. Wise words. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 25, 2023 21:43:15 GMT
If none of them stick, they may as well hand him the keys to the White House immediately. In my view, regardless of criminality, his desperate and pathetic attempts to undermine democracy, which placed lives at risk, are more than enough reason not to vote for him. I think the democrats. Party, leaning media, electorate etc undermined trumps election victory from the start. Right or wrong he was elected. They never expected Hillary to lose A bit like how the eu brigade tried to undermine the Brexit vote. The brexiteers have run the country for the last 4 years. Brecit is a disaster because it was a terrible idea. A bit like Trump. But only Trump incited violence in an attempt to overthrow the US democratic system. |
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Post by wannabee on Aug 25, 2023 21:48:15 GMT
The US is rich* They don’t really have to bother with normal politics so it’s all just mental culture war bollocks. * not every one is rich but the median Yankee family is much richer than the equivalent European one. Albeit with not much of a ‘safety net’. * This is an interesting observation, but it's not factual accurate. There are 5 Countries in Europe with an average income higher than in US Top 10 Countries By Average Income Country Average annual income Monaco $186,080 Bermuda $122,470 Switzerland $90,600 Luxembourg $88,190 Norway $83,880 Ireland $76,110 United States $70,930 Denmark $68,300 Singapore $64,010 Iceland $63,460 www.zippia.com/advice/average-income-worldwide/** I have no idea where UK is in the table other than not in Top 10 |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Aug 25, 2023 22:10:20 GMT
If none of them stick, they may as well hand him the keys to the White House immediately. In my view, regardless of criminality, his desperate and pathetic attempts to undermine democracy, which placed lives at risk, are more than enough reason not to vote for him. I think the democrats. Party, leaning media, electorate etc undermined trumps election victory from the start. Right or wrong he was elected. They never expected Hillary to lose A bit like how the eu brigade tried to undermine the Brexit vote. You're more than welcome to provide any example of how the Democrats, media or electorate did anything other than oversee the rightful, smooth transition of power in January 2021. Of course, any example you can muster up needs to then been compared with the behaviour of both the democratically elected President and his band of QAnon nutjobs on 06/01/2021. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 25, 2023 22:48:52 GMT
Maybe the South will rise again but instead of Robert E Lee it will be Trump with the 'sabre in his hand' 😂 I know that this is in jest (I hope) but a lot of people talk about “division” and, “there will be another war”. To me, I just don’t see it. I see a lot of talk occurring amongst people that would have never met before in other generations. I think that the pursuing arguments makes some feel more isolated than before, perhaps. I think that this is not really the case. People still have their friends, it’s just that our current generation actively seek to talk to others we’ve never met. I personally don’t see a day coming anytime soon where there will be sufficient impetus to go out there and fight each other in a literal Civil War. As a people, we are softer, we see more nuance, we are less religious and value life more. I don’t see a day anytime soon where the country would split in two: not even for Trump. Edit: we are also a lot more “free” in this decade than we have perhaps ever been. While one may hate the Tory’s, Labour, Republicans or Democrats, there is a huge difference now between opportunities available and ceilings for the everyday worker. Perhaps there was a glory generation for those born just after the Second World War (added this because I know that we all like to bash each other’s generations and say those that came before had it easier). It doesn’t matter because life in 2023 has many, many more freedoms than life before the Civil War. For that reason, I don’t see such a thing being easy to replicate. American’s simply have too much to lose.
I agree with all of this but would add the point, that Trump would absolutely love it if there was a civil war in his name.
Not because he would be flying the flag for any particular ideological belief or cause but simply because he and his followers would be flying the flag for Trump.
He is an out of control narcissist, where actual politics don't matter to him, it's all about Donald J. Trump and he genuinely believes that that is all that is required to put him back in the White House and sadly his followers can't see it.
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Post by swampmongrel on Aug 26, 2023 6:06:05 GMT
The US is rich* They don’t really have to bother with normal politics so it’s all just mental culture war bollocks. * not every one is rich but the median Yankee family is much richer than the equivalent European one. Albeit with not much of a ‘safety net’. * This is an interesting observation, but it's not factual accurate. There are 5 Countries in Europe with an average income higher than in US Top 10 Countries By Average Income Country Average annual income Monaco $186,080 Bermuda $122,470 Switzerland $90,600 Luxembourg $88,190 Norway $83,880 Ireland $76,110 United States $70,930 Denmark $68,300 Singapore $64,010 Iceland $63,460 www.zippia.com/advice/average-income-worldwide/** I have no idea where UK is in the table other than not in Top 10 Come on mate. I say Americans are richer than Europeans and you point to a few low population countries to say it’s not factually correct. I’m fairly surely you understand how averages (both mean and median) work. You point out that UK isn’t in the top ten in your list (which is sort oft point) alongside France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria, etc etc. It’s a constant surprise to me how little people in Europe (and perhaps Brits especially) realise just how rich the average American actually is. I do think its one reason why Europeans are constantly surprised by American politics. |
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Post by st3mark on Aug 26, 2023 9:29:49 GMT
Well for a start I saw the social media post they claimed incited the violence with my own eyes before they deleted it and banned him from the platform. He asked his supporters to be peaceful. I've never known any incitement of violence to have the word peaceful in it. Once Musk took over twitter and released the twitter files he re-released the post, released the emails between the old twitter staff and the Whitehouse where they discussed how to ban him even though his tweet was lawful. And guess what? Mainstream media chose not to report. If it was true it would have been the biggest scandal of the century, but if it was a lie it still would have been one of the biggest scandals. So why not report it????? Instead the media then turned Musk into a villain. Even though there wasn't any issues before he started exposing the truth. This day in age its about opening your eyes up to what they aren't showing you and not being a zombie who just believes everything they see on TV. His latest allegation is that he dared to question the integrity of the election. The most blatantly corrupted election since Bill the butcher died but even if it was a legit election and we can pretend a record number of people voted for a man who cant string a sentence together, is it really worthy of an international harassment because he dared to question it? You have made your own mind up and thats fine. I'd recommend doing your own research rather than relying on me to provide evidence to you, but certainly don't form an opinion on anyone based on media thats been forced upon you. 1. So because he used the word peaceful, that means he didn't incite violence? So lets say for example I have millions of followers who I have a huge amount of influence over that follow me across the country to show their support. And lets say I tweet "King Charles has raped and killed thousands of children, we know it's true and we have the evidence. Everyone gather at Buckingham Palace peacefully". And then long behold lots of people roll up where I told them to go and behave violently as they are outraged by what they've just learned. Does that not make me slightly accountable because without my tweet nobody would have turned up at Buckingham Palace in their droves and no violence would have occurred. Or at the very least a helluva lot less? 2. This paragraph doesn't make sense for alot of people because of my point 1. It makes sense to you because I guess you believe the election was stolen from Trump and it is all a huge conspiracy to keep the reigning president out of office. I'm not sure the reason for the corruption as I don't follow QANON and stuff but isn't it because Trump (previously best friends with one of Americas biggest pedos who died under his 24 hour watch) was going to expose all the corrupt liberals who have dungeons like Oprah filled with kids they rape and drink the blood of to stay young? Or something like this. Because the illumanti who control the world are all liberals with a common shared interest in paedophilia, notably not so interested in any financial crimes, and Trump is here to save our children? You can see why the average person like me finds it a bit far fetched. 3. When did the media turn Musk into a villain? He's still regularly portrayed very well in the media. People like me thought he was a cunt long before Twitter. And it seems I'm not alone, there's a thread there of people slagging him 5 years ago - oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/280949/elon-musk4. 100% agree about not being a zombie and believing everything you see on TV. All you need to do is read the thread about the UK government and you'll find the vast majority of the stories on there often go unreported on the BBC, Daily Mail, Telegraph etc.. But with the trump stuff I don't see anything coming from them outside of main stream media which is anything more than opinion. We keep hearing about the election being stolen. But where's the proof or evidence? Why was it so easy to steal when he lost but when he won it wasn't stolen? Or Pizzagate and all these other mad theories. Again mostly opinion pieces with very little evidence. Whereas the stuff in the government thread about the corruption of the conservative government which goes unreported, well it's there with facts alongside it. Whether it be accounts from a company which benefited from tory contracts and their connections to tory members, or if its about the directors in the BBC and their links to the conservative party, or if it's about Kwami-Kasi and his links to businessmen who made lots of money from the economy crashing. But "Oprah has a dungeon filled with kids she drinks blood from to stay young" doesn't really convince me no matter how many likes the facebook post has. I need more than just a baseless accusation with next to no evidence. 5. I find the distrust of MSM stuff quite dangerous too. Because while I agree it's important to look at lots of different sources of information to get a balanced view and to ensure you're doing your due diligence. It feels very much to me that for Trump supporters it's now a case of "unless it's coming from us, you can't trust anything from any other source" and that's quite dangerous because you're putting your full 100% faith into what any Trump supporting media will tell you. To me I just think there's a lack of inquisitiveness sometimes from some of his supporters. But then maybe people like yourself would say that about me with Jeremy Corbyn too who also had the MSM against him. I just found his rhetoric about inequality and greed and how the top 1% have more wealth than half the world like alot more believable and stuff I could get behind to try and make the world a more fair place. Whereas if he went down the route of telling me that the super rich people (like elon musk) aren't the ones we should be concerned about but instead it's random tv presenters with much less money than the insanely rich that are the problem. And the reason for that is because all of them are pedophiles and we have to protect our kids. I'd expect the people who have the most influence over the world to be those with the businesses and the money and the connections. Not the randomers who are all raping the kids and keeping them in dungeons and shit. I just don't get it. Sorry for late reply, I went out last night. 1. No not just because he used the word peaceful, the entire message that he put out had no suggestion that anyone should be anything other than law abiding. 2. I do believe the election was stolen. Trump had more votes than anyone had ever had in American history. Yet Biden, a man who can't speak also managed to get more votes than anyone in Americas history, with hundreds of thousands of votes appearing overnight. Epstein was killed because Clinton and Obama had visited the island. If Trumps name was on that list it would have been released. They would have been so excited to get it out there. Anyone who knows anything about the Clinton's disappears. legacyfirearmsco.com/news/the-list-of-clinton-associates-who-died-mysteriously-check-it-out/Obamas chef died in an accident recently too, and guess what so did Clinton's. What are the odds? 3. You may have noticed that all celebrities and mainstream media turned on twitter and all celebrities started threads accounts. It's all because musk exposed some truths and he refuses to be controlled or bought. I'm not particularly a fan of musk, but I admire his transparency. Read through the twitter files and at the very least you'll wonder why it didn't make the news. 4. Largely in agreement with each other here - until you mention Trump. The media loved him until he dared to try and drain the swamp. Nobody called him a racist until the media said it a thousand times. The zombies just believe that he is a racist, regardless of the fact that he had the most diverse cabinet in United States history at the time. Everything he said about covid they portrayed as lies and racist. Now 4 years later they are confirming that it did come from where trump said. Only the same media that said it was racist for him to say it now don't have a problem with it being said by the current regime. During the civil sexual case against him they found him guilty of one crime against a woman they never even successfully proved that he had ever met. They had the 'victim' on the news after and she said 'rape is sexy' before they cut the interview. 5. You're right about trust/mistrust of media, I don't just go about life trusting sources from trump supporters. I was raised very left wing. I look at both sides and make my own mind up. I have my eyes open enough to know that each one of trumps indictments has come a day after a Biden family scandal was happening in the courts. Imagine the coincidence. The reason I mistrust the media around trump is because I listen to what I hear him say with my own ears and not what the news tells me that he said. The reason I won't believe that he incited violence is because I saw the tweet with my own eyes and therefore believe my own eyes over the media. Hope I responded to the majority of what you said, your post was pretty long. It's great to see other viewpoints and feel free to respond, I'll be concentrating on football from now until the weekend is over but I'm sure I'll be back for more trump soon. I'm as fascinated with him as the rest of the world is. Also, when you mentioned previously about looking up vivek. Look up kari lake too, she has huge political potential in my opinion. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 26, 2023 9:31:13 GMT
I know that this is in jest (I hope) but a lot of people talk about “division” and, “there will be another war”. To me, I just don’t see it. I see a lot of talk occurring amongst people that would have never met before in other generations. I think that the pursuing arguments makes some feel more isolated than before, perhaps. I think that this is not really the case. People still have their friends, it’s just that our current generation actively seek to talk to others we’ve never met. I personally don’t see a day coming anytime soon where there will be sufficient impetus to go out there and fight each other in a literal Civil War. As a people, we are softer, we see more nuance, we are less religious and value life more. I don’t see a day anytime soon where the country would split in two: not even for Trump. Edit: we are also a lot more “free” in this decade than we have perhaps ever been. While one may hate the Tory’s, Labour, Republicans or Democrats, there is a huge difference now between opportunities available and ceilings for the everyday worker. Perhaps there was a glory generation for those born just after the Second World War (added this because I know that we all like to bash each other’s generations and say those that came before had it easier). It doesn’t matter because life in 2023 has many, many more freedoms than life before the Civil War. For that reason, I don’t see such a thing being easy to replicate. American’s simply have too much to lose.
I agree with all of this but would add the point, that Trump would absolutely love it if there was a civil war in his name.
Not because he would be flying the flag for any particular ideological belief or cause but simply because he and his followers would be flying the flag for Trump.
He is an out of control narcissist, where actual politics don't matter to him, it's all about Donald J. Trump and he genuinely believes that that is all that is required to put him back in the White House and sadly his followers can't see it.
The Handmaid's Tale is not so far-fetched. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 26, 2023 9:32:48 GMT
1. So because he used the word peaceful, that means he didn't incite violence? So lets say for example I have millions of followers who I have a huge amount of influence over that follow me across the country to show their support. And lets say I tweet "King Charles has raped and killed thousands of children, we know it's true and we have the evidence. Everyone gather at Buckingham Palace peacefully". And then long behold lots of people roll up where I told them to go and behave violently as they are outraged by what they've just learned. Does that not make me slightly accountable because without my tweet nobody would have turned up at Buckingham Palace in their droves and no violence would have occurred. Or at the very least a helluva lot less? 2. This paragraph doesn't make sense for alot of people because of my point 1. It makes sense to you because I guess you believe the election was stolen from Trump and it is all a huge conspiracy to keep the reigning president out of office. I'm not sure the reason for the corruption as I don't follow QANON and stuff but isn't it because Trump (previously best friends with one of Americas biggest pedos who died under his 24 hour watch) was going to expose all the corrupt liberals who have dungeons like Oprah filled with kids they rape and drink the blood of to stay young? Or something like this. Because the illumanti who control the world are all liberals with a common shared interest in paedophilia, notably not so interested in any financial crimes, and Trump is here to save our children? You can see why the average person like me finds it a bit far fetched. 3. When did the media turn Musk into a villain? He's still regularly portrayed very well in the media. People like me thought he was a cunt long before Twitter. And it seems I'm not alone, there's a thread there of people slagging him 5 years ago - oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/280949/elon-musk4. 100% agree about not being a zombie and believing everything you see on TV. All you need to do is read the thread about the UK government and you'll find the vast majority of the stories on there often go unreported on the BBC, Daily Mail, Telegraph etc.. But with the trump stuff I don't see anything coming from them outside of main stream media which is anything more than opinion. We keep hearing about the election being stolen. But where's the proof or evidence? Why was it so easy to steal when he lost but when he won it wasn't stolen? Or Pizzagate and all these other mad theories. Again mostly opinion pieces with very little evidence. Whereas the stuff in the government thread about the corruption of the conservative government which goes unreported, well it's there with facts alongside it. Whether it be accounts from a company which benefited from tory contracts and their connections to tory members, or if its about the directors in the BBC and their links to the conservative party, or if it's about Kwami-Kasi and his links to businessmen who made lots of money from the economy crashing. But "Oprah has a dungeon filled with kids she drinks blood from to stay young" doesn't really convince me no matter how many likes the facebook post has. I need more than just a baseless accusation with next to no evidence. 5. I find the distrust of MSM stuff quite dangerous too. Because while I agree it's important to look at lots of different sources of information to get a balanced view and to ensure you're doing your due diligence. It feels very much to me that for Trump supporters it's now a case of "unless it's coming from us, you can't trust anything from any other source" and that's quite dangerous because you're putting your full 100% faith into what any Trump supporting media will tell you. To me I just think there's a lack of inquisitiveness sometimes from some of his supporters. But then maybe people like yourself would say that about me with Jeremy Corbyn too who also had the MSM against him. I just found his rhetoric about inequality and greed and how the top 1% have more wealth than half the world like alot more believable and stuff I could get behind to try and make the world a more fair place. Whereas if he went down the route of telling me that the super rich people (like elon musk) aren't the ones we should be concerned about but instead it's random tv presenters with much less money than the insanely rich that are the problem. And the reason for that is because all of them are pedophiles and we have to protect our kids. I'd expect the people who have the most influence over the world to be those with the businesses and the money and the connections. Not the randomers who are all raping the kids and keeping them in dungeons and shit. I just don't get it. Sorry for late reply, I went out last night. 1. No not just because he used the word peaceful, the entire message that he put out had no suggestion that anyone should be anything other than law abiding. 2. I do believe the election was stolen. Trump had more votes than anyone had ever had in American history. Yet Biden, a man who can't speak also managed to get more votes than anyone in Americas history, with hundreds of thousands of votes appearing overnight. Epstein was killed because Clinton and Obama had visited the island. If Trumps name was on that list it would have been released. They would have been so excited to get it out there. Anyone who knows anything about the Clinton's disappears. legacyfirearmsco.com/news/the-list-of-clinton-associates-who-died-mysteriously-check-it-out/Obamas chef died in an accident recently too, and guess what so did Clinton's. What are the odds? 3. You may have noticed that all celebrities and mainstream media turned on twitter and all celebrities started threads accounts. It's all because musk exposed some truths and he refuses to be controlled or bought. I'm not particularly a fan of musk, but I admire his transparency. Read through the twitter files and at the very least you'll wonder why it didn't make the news. 4. Largely in agreement with each other here - until you mention Trump. The media loved him until he dared to try and drain the swamp. Nobody called him a racist until the media said it a thousand times. The zombies just believe that he is a racist, regardless of the fact that he had the most diverse cabinet in United States history at the time. Everything he said about covid they portrayed as lies and racist. Now 4 years later they are confirming that it did come from where trump said. Only the same media that said it was racist for him to say it now don't have a problem with it being said by the current regime. During the civil sexual case against him they found him guilty of one crime against a woman they never even successfully proved that he had ever met. They had the 'victim' on the news after and she said 'rape is sexy' before they cut the interview. 5. You're right about trust/mistrust of media, I don't just go about life trusting sources from trump supporters. I was raised very left wing. I look at both sides and make my own mind up. I have my eyes open enough to know that each one of trumps indictments has come a day after a Biden family scandal was happening in the courts. Imagine the coincidence. The reason I mistrust the media around trump is because I listen to what I hear him say with my own ears and not what the news tells me that he said. The reason I won't believe that he incited violence is because I saw the tweet with my own eyes and therefore believe my own eyes over the media. Hope I responded to the majority of what you said, your post was pretty long. It's great to see other viewpoints and feel free to respond, I'll be concentrating on football from now until the weekend is over but I'm sure I'll be back for more trump soon. I'm as fascinated with him as the rest of the world is. Also, when you mentioned previously about looking up vivek. Look up kari lake too, she has huge political potential in my opinion. Biden won the popular vote as did Clinton. Trump was also very close to Epstein. Both of these are established fact mate. |
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Oh, Crappy!
