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Post by stokiejohnss on Aug 21, 2016 12:38:43 GMT
I think one thing about Wolly that all might agree with is it's looking like he isn't the ball playing centre half we thought we were getting to replace Huth. Plus he's not as good a defender. However I'll give it a few more games as it is still early doors
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Post by cooper67 on Aug 21, 2016 12:58:09 GMT
I don't think he played to bad yesterday.
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Post by fazza90 on Aug 21, 2016 12:59:28 GMT
Some dodgy passing going on but I thought he was still our best defender in that game. Not saying much though! ^This^
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Aug 21, 2016 13:00:00 GMT
I wonder how popular wooly is amongst his colleagues? Not as a player but as a person. There seems no love lost between him and pieters or him and bardsley. A lack of chemistry through the pitch is hurting us as much as any perceived lack of ability. I reckon it's symptomatic of the Hughes way and methodology. He seems to value individuality over building partnerships. It's not black and white, it's a balance and in my dafter moments I think Hughes has tipped the scales too far in trying to appear to be the antithesis of Tone. I'm sure it's not that simple. Tone's teams were all about pairings: CB's, fullbacks and wingers who worked together, mid two, strike pairing. The only example of any kind of pairing is Pieters and Arnie, and during the Moses season Hughes was happy to break that too. There are several examples of him breaking up partnerships, perhaps as part of his pursuit of freer football. Injuries obviously impact on the ability to build those relationships, the modern squad game doesn't really lend itself to it, and we are going through a period of transition. It's a question of balance for me, from Adam's vid diary they look like a happy camp, and I'll no doubt eat me words when they start to 'click'. I've applauded Hughes flexibility, again it's about balance. {No manager will be perfect.} Still very supportive of Hughes but think with better attention to the nogger nuts and bolts {as you say earning the 'right to play' etc} we could be better, even marginally better would reap rewards. I think he's slipped into a tendency of buying players he likes the look of {against us!} first and foremost, rather than what we need. Dunno, there's time left in the window to change that, but again I don't think Hughes and co are taking full advantage of the luxury of stability at SCFC, it's pretty rare to be given four years at a Prem Club. The top ten finishes and a Cup semi are a ringing endorsment, I don't take those for granted, it's not terminal. As for Wolfman he had his most schizophrenic game for us, one minute 'The Tower', the next minute liable to put us under untold pressure with a ridiculous pass. He wasn't wholly responsible for his howlers he was sent untold hospital balls, and as a centre back brought into the passing game far too often. Though they're our best two defenders, I'm yet to be convinced that him and Ryan are a pairing. Maybe Pieters should be tried lcb? dunno. It shouldn't be this perplexing at this stage of the season. And it feels like that throughout the team. I'm still enjoying the journey, watching it unfold. Testing me nerve. {Saw you mentioned your mum had been to Cologne, pass on me best wishes mate.}
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 21, 2016 13:01:49 GMT
I wonder how popular wooly is amongst his colleagues? Not as a player but as a person. There seems no love lost between him and pieters or him and bardsley. A lack of chemistry through the pitch is hurting us as much as any perceived lack of ability. And Ryan clearly doesn't trust him as far as he could throw him. He's just so bad for us. I really can't stress it enough. You really have a good go at stressing it enough ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif)
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 21, 2016 13:04:55 GMT
I wonder how popular wooly is amongst his colleagues? Not as a player but as a person. There seems no love lost between him and pieters or him and bardsley. A lack of chemistry through the pitch is hurting us as much as any perceived lack of ability. I reckon it's symptomatic of the Hughes way and methodology. He seems to value individuality over building partnerships. It's not black and white, it's a balance and in my dafter moments I think Hughes has tipped the scales too far in trying to appear to be the antithesis of Tone. I'm sure it's not that simple. Tone's teams were all about pairings: CB's, fullbacks and wingers who worked together, mid two, strike pairing. The only example of any kind of pairing is Pieters and Arnie, and during the Moses season Hughes was happy to break that too. There are several examples of him breaking up partnerships, perhaps as part of his pursuit of freer football. Injuries obviously impact on the ability to build those relationships, the modern squad game doesn't really lend itself to it, and we are going through a period of transition. It's a question of balance for me, from Adam's vid diary they look like a happy camp, and I'll no doubt eat me words when they start to 'click'. I've applauded Hughes flexibility, again it's about balance. {No manager will be perfect.} Still very supportive of Hughes but think with better attention to the nogger nuts and bolts {as you say earning the 'right to play' etc} we could be better, even marginally better would reap rewards. I think he's slipped into a tendency of buying players he likes the look of {against us!} first and foremost, rather than what we need. Dunno, there's time left in the window to change that, but again I don't think Hughes and co are taking full advantage of the luxury of stability at SCFC, it's pretty rare to be given four years at a Prem Club. The top ten finishes and a Cup semi are a ringing endorsment, I don't take those for granted, it's not terminal. As for Wolfman he had his most schizophrenic game for us, one minute 'The Tower', the next minute liable to put us under untold pressure with a ridiculous pass. He wasn't wholly responsible for his howlers he was sent untold hospital balls, and as a centre back brought into the passing game far too often. Though they're our best two defenders, I'm yet to be convinced that him and Ryan are a pairing. Maybe Pieters should be tried lcb? dunno. It shouldn't be this perplexing at this stage of the season. And it feels like that throughout the team. I'm still enjoying the journey, watching it unfold. Testing me nerve. {Saw you mentioned your mum had been to Cologne, pass on me best wishes mate.} Cheers mate. Will do. Having dinner there today before going home. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) Hope your mum is doing well?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 21, 2016 13:16:51 GMT
And Ryan clearly doesn't trust him as far as he could throw him. He's just so bad for us. I really can't stress it enough. You really have a good go at stressing it enough ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) I don't think I do.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 13:17:23 GMT
You really have a good go at stressing it enough ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) I don't think I do. Ha!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 21, 2016 13:19:17 GMT
The fact people can't see how poor and toxic he is to this side makes me believe this!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 13:20:01 GMT
The fact people can't see how poor and toxic he is to this side makes me believe this! Toxic? Come on mate, lay off the sauce.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 21, 2016 13:23:45 GMT
The fact people can't see how poor and toxic he is to this side makes me believe this! Toxic? Come on mate, lay off the sauce. I think it's clear as Dave points out that he's not very well liked in some quarters. Take the incident yesterday with Allen where he bollocked him for a shit pass he made. You wouldn't take it, especially when he's such a poor defender. He takes no responsibility for his actions and it's bad for the team. He's just vile.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 13:27:43 GMT
Toxic? Come on mate, lay off the sauce. I think it's clear as Dave points out that he's not very well liked in some quarters. Take the incident yesterday with Allen where he bollocked him for a shit pass he made. You wouldn't take it, especially when he's such a poor defender. He takes no responsibility for his actions and it's bad for the team. He's just vile. He's certainly in a clique of one, I'll give you that. I thought that was down to other issues though... The Allen incident was interesting because it started and ended pretty much straight away, which is odd on a football pitch if one side is even 50% in the right.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 21, 2016 13:31:11 GMT
I think it's clear as Dave points out that he's not very well liked in some quarters. Take the incident yesterday with Allen where he bollocked him for a shit pass he made. You wouldn't take it, especially when he's such a poor defender. He takes no responsibility for his actions and it's bad for the team. He's just vile. He's certainly in a clique of one, I'll give you that. I thought that was down to other issues though... The Allen incident was interesting because it started and ended pretty much straight away, which is odd on a football pitch if one side is even 50% in the right. It did? He carried on pointing as Man City had the ball and then ambled back when he finally realised that he had a job to do. Once we'd sorted that problem out he was then shouting at some cunt to his left, presumably Pieters for something. If Hughes wants to be in a job in 3 months he has to drop him.
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Post by skip on Aug 21, 2016 13:33:27 GMT
OK, I'll say it. Admittedly I watched yesterday on a screen but Shawcross was more of a liability than Wollscheid. IMHO obv.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 13:34:24 GMT
He's certainly in a clique of one, I'll give you that. I thought that was down to other issues though... The Allen incident was interesting because it started and ended pretty much straight away, which is odd on a football pitch if one side is even 50% in the right. It did? He carried on pointing as Man City had the ball and then ambled back when he finally realised that he had a job to do. Once we'd sorted that problem out he was then shouting at some cunt to his left, presumably Pieters for something. If Hughes wants to be in a job in 3 months he has to drop him. It won't necessarily be the back line that will cost him his job. As good or as bad as we are at the back, there is no better defending than scoring goals. I know it sounds pretty radical but the more we can score the more we can kill games dead. Teams know they have a chance against us before we kick off because we are easy to defend against and teams can push right up against us. If we want to talk purely about defending then the skipper will surely walk before Wollscheid based on current form?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 13:35:13 GMT
Put in a few decent tackles today but his distribution was poor, considering he's supposed to be the 'ball playing' defender of the two centre-backs. That's why he runs funny...he's got his hands in his pockets , playing with his balls.
Seriously I thought they were both shite. Perhaps Bardsley could be tried in the centre with Ryan at least his attitude is good and his lack of pace would not be so much of an issue. In fact he could Captain from there.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 21, 2016 13:39:05 GMT
It did? He carried on pointing as Man City had the ball and then ambled back when he finally realised that he had a job to do. Once we'd sorted that problem out he was then shouting at some cunt to his left, presumably Pieters for something. If Hughes wants to be in a job in 3 months he has to drop him. It won't necessarily be the back line that will cost him his job. As good or as bad as we are at the back, there is no better defending than scoring goals. I know it sounds pretty radical but the more we can score the more we can kill games dead. Teams know they have a chance against us before we kick off because we are easy to defend against and teams can push right up against us. If we want to talk purely about defending then the skipper will surely walk before Wollscheid based on current form? Not a cat in hells chance and if he does it's another sign of Hughes defensive ineptitude. Wolly is the issue at the back. Take him out and put a proper player there and I really do think we'll transformed back there. We need to score more too obviously. Hence why this next 3 months is massive for Hughes. 12 months of poor play at the back and up front isn't on.
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Post by philb on Aug 21, 2016 14:07:00 GMT
It won't necessarily be the back line that will cost him his job. As good or as bad as we are at the back, there is no better defending than scoring goals. I know it sounds pretty radical but the more we can score the more we can kill games dead. Teams know they have a chance against us before we kick off because we are easy to defend against and teams can push right up against us. If we want to talk purely about defending then the skipper will surely walk before Wollscheid based on current form? Not a cat in hells chance and if he does it's another sign of Hughes defensive ineptitude. Wolly is the issue at the back. Take him out and put a proper player there and I really do think we'll transformed back there. We need to score more too obviously. Hence why this next 3 months is massive for Hughes. 12 months of poor play at the back and up front isn't on. If you take the first two games of this season though it's not been Wolly that's the issue, it's been Ryan.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 21, 2016 14:11:44 GMT
Not a cat in hells chance and if he does it's another sign of Hughes defensive ineptitude. Wolly is the issue at the back. Take him out and put a proper player there and I really do think we'll transformed back there. We need to score more too obviously. Hence why this next 3 months is massive for Hughes. 12 months of poor play at the back and up front isn't on. If you take the first two games of this season though it's not been Wolly that's the issue, it's been Ryan. The biggest issue at the back yesterday was the gap between Wolly and Pieters. That needs sorting on the training ground. He's nowhere to be seen on the third goal either. I thought Shawcross was fine on the whole but looked rusty still. Wolly I thought was ok too until I saw a replay of the third goal. The Allen incident is just Wolly being Wolly. He needs to stop it but can't take responsibility. It's not a good trait in a defender.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 21, 2016 14:53:17 GMT
I think it's clear as Dave points out that he's not very well liked in some quarters. Take the incident yesterday with Allen where he bollocked him for a shit pass he made. You wouldn't take it, especially when he's such a poor defender. He takes no responsibility for his actions and it's bad for the team. He's just vile. He's certainly in a clique of one, I'll give you that. I thought that was down to other issues though... The Allen incident was interesting because it started and ended pretty much straight away, which is odd on a football pitch if one side is even 50% in the right. He has other issues ? as well as been a pretty useless CB ![B-|](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/GW5u7F6ZsL7YqNjCbXMk.gif) does he smell or something.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Aug 21, 2016 14:59:36 GMT
I think it's clear as Dave points out that he's not very well liked in some quarters. Take the incident yesterday with Allen where he bollocked him for a shit pass he made. You wouldn't take it, especially when he's such a poor defender. He takes no responsibility for his actions and it's bad for the team. He's just vile. He's certainly in a clique of one, I'll give you that. I thought that was down to other issues though... The Allen incident was interesting because it started and ended pretty much straight away, which is odd on a football pitch if one side is even 50% in the right. Heard yesterday that Joe Allen is doing a psychology Degree, he'll be well versed in Transactional Analysis and such. He'll sort Wollscheid out. I think I'm going to like Joe Allen.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 15:08:41 GMT
He's certainly in a clique of one, I'll give you that. I thought that was down to other issues though... The Allen incident was interesting because it started and ended pretty much straight away, which is odd on a football pitch if one side is even 50% in the right. Heard yesterday that Joe Allen is doing a psychology Degree, he'll be well versed in Transactional Analysis and such. He'll sort Wollscheid out. I think I'm going to like Joe Allen. Once he's finished on big Phil, he can start on the rest of them...
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 21, 2016 15:08:52 GMT
Wolly was very close to MOTM yesterday, just the same as he was last week at Boro.
Some people on this board slag our players off without even watching the games.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 21, 2016 15:12:48 GMT
Wolly was very close to MOTM yesterday, just the same as he was last week at Boro. Some people on this board slag our players off without even watching the games. He was not close enough to Aguero who I thought was MOM.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 15:14:19 GMT
I wonder how popular wooly is amongst his colleagues? Not as a player but as a person. There seems no love lost between him and pieters or him and bardsley. A lack of chemistry through the pitch is hurting us as much as any perceived lack of ability. And Ryan clearly doesn't trust him as far as he could throw him. He's just so bad for us. I really can't stress it enough. I'd be careful you'd be accused of victimisation like myself.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 21, 2016 15:14:28 GMT
Wolly was very close to MOTM yesterday, just the same as he was last week at Boro. Some people on this board slag our players off without even watching the games. I watch them. He was 5/10 at Boro, best of a bad bunch. Yesterday he made mistakes and threw a tantrum. Bardo was way better.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 15:16:12 GMT
Wolly was very close to MOTM yesterday, just the same as he was last week at Boro. Some people on this board slag our players off without even watching the games. Very close to MOM??? We conceded 4?!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 21, 2016 15:18:07 GMT
And Ryan clearly doesn't trust him as far as he could throw him. He's just so bad for us. I really can't stress it enough. I'd be careful you'd be accused of victimisation like myself. Haha I have. I don't like how he goes about his business. He's a bad defender and I will always pick on that. He seems to have an added edge that pisses his team mates off that the likes of Wilson and Collins never had.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 21, 2016 15:18:37 GMT
Wolly was very close to MOTM yesterday, just the same as he was last week at Boro. Some people on this board slag our players off without even watching the games. Very close to MOM??? We conceded 4?! Allen was our MOM yesterday.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 15:19:45 GMT
Wolly was very close to MOTM yesterday, just the same as he was last week at Boro. Some people on this board slag our players off without even watching the games. Very close to MOM??? We conceded 4?! It's this nonsense that makes the divide even worse. He wasn't MOM yesterday at all. He got Whelan and Shawcross out of the shit a few times and made a few mistakes. No different to any other player on the pitch, even Allen who was the best of a bad lot. He's nowhere near as bad as people are making out. Dropping him won't turn us into the clean sheet machine many are hoping for.
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