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Post by stokeramblers on Jul 11, 2012 8:07:53 GMT
I think you're confusing football with Cricket or Rugby perhaps. Very rare it happens to any extent in football. Does Fergie consult Nemanja Vidic or Rio Ferdinand? I doubt it. It doesnt matter what the game is, team captains have a role that is not only on the pitch, wicket or course etc. I don't dispute that but selection is the manager remit |
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Post by superjonnywalters on Jul 11, 2012 8:09:33 GMT
Jesus wept, when did football stop being a contact sport?
Any bloke who has ever played the game knows full well, when they step onto the pitch, there is a risk of injury.
Sometimes players cross the line and injure players due to reckless, dangerous or just outright cynical challenges but at the same time, injuries can just be the result of an accident with no intent.
Its part and parcel of the game.
It was a horrible injury for Ramsey but if he seriously holds some kind of grudge against Shawcross then he needs to give his head a wobble.
How many players in the history of football have broken their legs as the result of an innocuous challenge? You'd think this was a one off that has only ever happened to Ramsey and the whole world should rally around him and help him through this torrid time.
I used to have sympathy for the lad, even though Ryan is one of our own and there was a whole heap of shyte that followed, you still don't wish that injury on anyone. That sympathy has since dwindled.
Ramsey, and anyone who is still making out that this incident is worse than genocide, can go fuck themselves.
He's a young lad, he's a millionaire, he's in a massively privileged position, he's recovered from his injury and he's got his whole career ahead of him. In the ranks of people to feel sorry for in this world, Aaron Ramsey doesn't appear anywhere near the top of the fucking list.
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Post by Bod on Jul 11, 2012 8:14:33 GMT
I sometimes think that we are too quick to take take umbrage about any perceived criticisms of our club or players. However, in this instance, this is absolutely ridiculous. Coleman and Ramsey can go and fuck themselves, or each other, and even though it might kill his international career for the minute, Shawcross should tell them that they are a joke.
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stodge
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Post by stodge on Jul 11, 2012 8:21:42 GMT
To be perfectly honest if i was Coleman and Ramsey was kicking up about Shawcross being in the squad it would be him that i'd drop.
For Wales would it make a great deal of difference, Lose a good (not excellent) midfielder gain a good (not excellent defender). The way Wales ship goals i personally would probably prefer the option to strengthen my defence which without a doubt shawcross would do.
Colemans now left himself in a no win situation, is Ryan so desperate to play for Wales he's going to go in kowtowing accepting he was the bad boy to save Ramseys feelings? Is Ramsey going to issue a full apology for his behaviour and say he accepts it was 100% accident.....piss poor management!
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Post by stokelad84 on Jul 11, 2012 8:25:49 GMT
How much power has Ramsey got? (Or thinks he has got?)
I remember before Coleman got appointed, Ramsey was in the papers saying "The Welsh FA should ask for my input before naming a new manager."
I agree with the majority of posters on this thread, Shawcross should tell Wales to fuck off. He may be 6th choice for England but he will get a cap one day.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 11, 2012 8:26:18 GMT
What a truly pathetic line for a manager to take in this situation. Bone-headed doesn't begin to cover it.
If Shawcross was giving it half a thought, I presume this has kiled it stone dead. If I was Shawcross, I would be telling Colemn to stick it where the sun don't shine.
Suddenly it becomes clear why Coleman has achieved nothing as a manager.
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Post by luke45 on Jul 11, 2012 8:26:23 GMT
Absolutely unbelievable. Tell them to get fucked Ryan, they don't deserve you.
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Post by acstokie on Jul 11, 2012 8:36:23 GMT
To be perfectly honest if i was Coleman and Ramsey was kicking up about Shawcross being in the squad it would be him that i'd drop. For Wales would it make a great deal of difference, Lose a good (not excellent) midfielder gain a good (not excellent defender). The way Wales ship goals i personally would probably prefer the option to strengthen my defence which without a doubt shawcross would do. Colemans now left himself in a no win situation, is Ryan so desperate to play for Wales he's going to go in kowtowing accepting he was the bad boy to save Ramseys feelings? Is Ramsey going to issue a full apology for his behaviour and say he accepts it was 100% accident.....piss poor management! You don't think Ryan Shawcross is an excellent defender? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2012 8:40:14 GMT
to be fair i think it's less to do with Coleman and more to do with Ramsey; Coleman is actually just doing his job.
if Ramsey HAD accepted Ryan's several attempts to apologise then it would be a non-story and non-issue. however, if Coleman knows that Ramsey has refused to accept the apology then he is simply doing his job as a manager of the national team to ensure that there would be no disruptions in the whole camp IF Ryan decided to take up the offer (which, incidentally i don't think he will anyway) so the whole issue has been caused by that whining little precious boy who seems to base his life decisions around what that French arsehole tells him, unfortnately though that whining boy happens to be Captain of the national side so is NOT going to dropped in place of Ryan. the manager has a responsibility to ensure that the team spirit is not ruined by ANYONE coming into the fold.
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Post by tpholloway1 on Jul 11, 2012 8:42:27 GMT
I'm getting fed up with this Shawcross/Ramsay debate. I sat in Row 10 Seddon Stand and at first thought that the ref had given us a free kick for Bendners tug on Ryan as he went for the ball (which was in his possession). To be fair it would have been the first thing he had seen - no mention in the media of 2 two footed tackles from behind by Fabregas. If Bendner hadn't tugged Ryan back it may well have been Ryan who was injured. After the game Arsehole Whinger had nothing to say and only commented later in the week. Ramsey's reaction, following his managers comments was a disgrace from a professional footballer and says a lot about the type of person he is. The fact that so many in the media chose to ignore Bendners tug says a lot about their lack of objectivity and professionalism. Ryan should tell Coleman he doesn't want Ramsay to select him!!!
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Post by jwhpotter on Jul 11, 2012 8:44:04 GMT
The point is not consulting captains about selections, mangers by all means can do this. The point is the fact that Coleman is brought this incident up again and made it part of a foitballing descision which is absolutely rediculous, its in the past, was a complete accudent and should be left alone
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Post by broomey1983 on Jul 11, 2012 8:52:22 GMT
He's English and should never play for wales, just because he went to school for a few years in wales doesn't mean you should play for that country.
I would also hope Ryan has got more pride than to wear that dirty red dragon on his left tit
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Post by acstokie on Jul 11, 2012 8:52:27 GMT
What amazes me is how easy Ramsay's leg broke that day! You would think his many knee tremblers out in the hill's shagging many a struggling sheep would have built his legs up over the years.
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stodge
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Post by stodge on Jul 11, 2012 8:52:53 GMT
To be perfectly honest if i was Coleman and Ramsey was kicking up about Shawcross being in the squad it would be him that i'd drop. For Wales would it make a great deal of difference, Lose a good (not excellent) midfielder gain a good (not excellent defender). The way Wales ship goals i personally would probably prefer the option to strengthen my defence which without a doubt shawcross would do. Colemans now left himself in a no win situation, is Ryan so desperate to play for Wales he's going to go in kowtowing accepting he was the bad boy to save Ramseys feelings? Is Ramsey going to issue a full apology for his behaviour and say he accepts it was 100% accident.....piss poor management! You don't think Ryan Shawcross is an excellent defender? Excellent for Stoke yes, Excellent on the world stage no. Its a relative and objective view. If Shawcross played for England would he be a stand out world class player in that squad? Not in my opinion, would certainly do a job and be better than some who have won caps. |
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Post by billybigballs on Jul 11, 2012 8:58:35 GMT
Ryan is not welsh and far too good for Wales anyway, i hope he tells Coleman and Ramsey where to shove it. Hes still young and will still play for England one day
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 11, 2012 8:59:52 GMT
to be fair i think it's less to do with Coleman and more to do with Ramsey; Coleman is actually just doing his job. if Ramsey HAD accepted Ryan's several attempts to apologise then it would be a non-story and non-issue. however, if Coleman knows that Ramsey has refused to accept the apology then he is simply doing his job as a manager of the national team to ensure that there would be no disruptions in the whole camp IF Ryan decided to take up the offer (which, incidentally i don't think he will anyway) so the whole issue has been caused by that whining little precious boy who seems to base his life decisions around what that French arsehole tells him, unfortnately though that whining boy happens to be Captain of the national side so is NOT going to dropped in place of Ryan. the manager has a responsibility to ensure that the team spirit is not ruined by ANYONE coming into the fold. I fail to see why Coleman had to trott along to the press with this story at this early stage. I'm not surprised he felt it best to consult (or perhaps a better word would be, "tell") Ramsey, if only because he would not particularly want to approach Ryan and then find that Ramsey was going to kick up a fuss and possibly go walkabout. But why not do it behind closed doors? A good manager would have ensured that the first the public knew about this was when/if Ryan was unveiled as a Welsh squad player or both parties could announce that it wasn't going to happen. |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 11, 2012 9:03:50 GMT
What Why Delilah said.
It's pathetic.
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Post by dime on Jul 11, 2012 9:05:23 GMT
Hes still young and will still play for England one day I'm not so sure, he's 25 in a few months and doesn't seem to be anywhere near even getting a look in, looks like it's just not to be, rightly or wrongly. |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 11, 2012 9:08:43 GMT
But why not do it behind closed doors? A good manager would have ensured that the first the public knew about this was when/if Ryan was unveiled as a Welsh squad player or both parties could announce that it wasn't going to happen. Because he's a media whore who hasn't had any publicity recently. He wasn't even used by ITV or BBC for the euros so needs to have a look at me, look what I'm doing, I am actually doing something moment, when in reality he's sat at his desk rearranging his pencils and pens wondering if his secretary does oral!. |
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 11, 2012 9:12:43 GMT
to be fair i think it's less to do with Coleman and more to do with Ramsey; Coleman is actually just doing his job. if Ramsey HAD accepted Ryan's several attempts to apologise then it would be a non-story and non-issue. however, if Coleman knows that Ramsey has refused to accept the apology then he is simply doing his job as a manager of the national team to ensure that there would be no disruptions in the whole camp IF Ryan decided to take up the offer (which, incidentally i don't think he will anyway) so the whole issue has been caused by that whining little precious boy who seems to base his life decisions around what that French arsehole tells him, unfortnately though that whining boy happens to be Captain of the national side so is NOT going to dropped in place of Ryan. the manager has a responsibility to ensure that the team spirit is not ruined by ANYONE coming into the fold. I fail to see why Coleman had to trott along to the press with this story at this early stage. I'm not surprised he felt it best to consult (or perhaps a better word would be, "tell") Ramsey, if only because he would not particularly want to approach Ryan and then find that Ramsey was going to kick up a fuss and possibly go walkabout. But why not do it behind closed doors? A good manager would have ensured that the first the public knew about this was when/if Ryan was unveiled as a Welsh squad player or both parties could announce that it wasn't going to happen. Agree with that, Forny. To allow an incendiary line like this into the papers is just so naive and inflammatory from Coleman. What a berk. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 11, 2012 9:16:11 GMT
I fail to see why Coleman had to trott along to the press with this story at this early stage. I'm not surprised he felt it best to consult (or perhaps a better word would be, "tell") Ramsey, if only because he would not particularly want to approach Ryan and then find that Ramsey was going to kick up a fuss and possibly go walkabout. But why not do it behind closed doors? A good manager would have ensured that the first the public knew about this was when/if Ryan was unveiled as a Welsh squad player or both parties could announce that it wasn't going to happen. Agree with that, Forny. To allow an incendiary line like this into the papers is just so naive and inflammatory from Coleman. What a berk. I suspect Gary Speed would have had more sense.  |
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Post by jeycov on Jul 11, 2012 9:16:31 GMT
First of all the Wales manager and the press have not handled this situation with any inkling of professionalism at all - a poor reflection of both parties.
Shawcross and Stoke are being perceived as 2nd best in this situation
If Shawcross decides to make himself available, but there is no public apology from Ramsay, then would Coleman be brave enough to take Ryan and not Ramsay?
Ryan is the better player in my opinion and if Coleman is selecting his strongest team, that would be a true reflection of taking tough decisions and putting Wales first!
This revelation makes it almost impossible for Ryan!
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Post by ruts66 on Jul 11, 2012 9:19:08 GMT
Ryan is English and has been called up to the England squad previously - I would hope from his point of view that is the end of the matter regardless of the Ramsey situation...
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Jul 11, 2012 9:22:36 GMT
Ryan should tell them to fuck off. Coleman may aswel let Ramsey pick the starting 11 while he's at it.
People get injured all the time. Broken legs happen. You have to move on.
1. Ryan never touched him, we have pictures to prove.
2. Ramsey was/is/always will be shit anyway.
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Post by mcf on Jul 11, 2012 9:23:21 GMT
I suspect Gary Speed would have had more sense.
well, it didn't appear so....
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Post by winchesterstokie on Jul 11, 2012 9:26:39 GMT
As a proud Welshman, I think this story is an embarresment! Aaron Ramsey is the epitome of a spoilt young football player and could learn a thing or two from Ryan.
The fact that Speed gave Ramsey the Captain's armband and that Ramsey made a point of getting himself heard when the FAW were selecting Coleman (who was the only available choice) has forced Coleman's hand here - the FAW see Ramsey as a shining light (which shows just how much they know about football).
At the end of the day, Coleman is the manager and his selection is final, ala Woy. To undermine the possible approach to Ryan in this way undermines Coleman's judgement and ability for his role and proves that the FAW are idiots.
If I were Ryan, I would tell Wales to go f*** themselves.
BTW - I'm sure I saw a picture in the Sun that showed THE tackle and it showed that ramsey's foot was firmly planted and ankle was snapping BEFORE Ryan even touched him - although I admit my (non-gay) love of Ryan may be clouding my memory.
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Post by cousindupree on Jul 11, 2012 9:27:33 GMT
What a truly pathetic line for a manager to take in this situation. Bone-headed doesn't begin to cover it. If Shawcross was giving it half a thought, I presume this has kiled it stone dead. If I was Shawcross, I would be telling Colemn to stick it where the sun don't shine. Suddenly it becomes clear why Coleman has achieved nothing as a manager. Spot on mate. Coleman has got this wrong on so many levels from the timing right through to the basic principle of who manages. What a bonehead. The loser will be Wales as they are likely to miss out on one heck pf a defender. If I was head of the welsh FA, I would be having a word with Mr Coleman. |
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Post by ruts66 on Jul 11, 2012 9:37:22 GMT
Gareth Bale is ten times the player and inspiration.
Wales have got their captaincy all wrong IMO...
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Post by mrred on Jul 11, 2012 9:58:49 GMT
“I won’t shy away from it because of course there are issues there – we all know what happened."
Indeed. A 50-50 tackle you fucking spanner.
I think it'd be a bit bollocks though if Ryan decided after all he said about working hard to be part of England, let alone the fact that he's not Welsh.
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Post by nott1 on Jul 11, 2012 9:59:18 GMT
Who's the effing boss Coleman, you or Ramsey the mard arse?
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