|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 11, 2010 17:45:14 GMT
Gary Neville isn't fit to wipe any of that squads arse, even Carragher.
|
|
|
Post by viewfromthecrowsnest on May 11, 2010 21:52:42 GMT
Goalkeepers: Joe Hart (Manchester City) - Good but no experience David James (Portsmouth) - Past it, but could do a job Robert Green (West Ham) - Average Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton) - Average Jamie Carragher (Liverpool) - Past it, can't play 7 games in 1 month Ashley Cole (Chelsea) - Hate him but he is class on his day Michael Dawson (Tottenham) - Good but no experience Rio Ferdinand (Manchester United) - Crap season, can't last 7 games Glen Johnson (Liverpool) - Dodgy Ledley King (Tottenham) - Crap season, only played well for 2 weeks, can't last 7 games John Terry (Chelsea) - See Ashley Cole Matthew Upson (West Ham) - Average Stephen Warnock (Aston Villa) - Average Midfielders: Gareth Barry (Manchester City) - Crocked Michael Carrick (Manchester United) - Lost his way Joe Cole (Chelsea) - Crap season, only played well for 2 weeks Steven Gerrard (Liverpool) - Class but not at his best this year Tom Huddlestone (Tottenham) - Good but no experience Adam Johnson (Manchester City) - Good but no experience Frank Lampard (Chelsea) - Our only in-form class player Aaron Lennon (Tottenham) - Crap season, only played well for 2 weeks James Milner (Aston Villa) - Good but no experience Scott Parker (West Ham) - Good but no experience Theo Walcott (Arsenal) - Average Shaun Wright-Phillips (Manchester City) - Average, but does well for England Forwards: Darren Bent (Sunderland) - Good but can't do it for England Peter Crouch (Tottenham) - Ideal partner for Rooney Jermain Defoe (Tottenham) - Good lad Emile Heskey (Aston Villa) - Average, crap season but Fab loves him Wayne Rooney (Manchester United) - Best player by a mile, but that fecking groin! Somehow I reckon we'll win it ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/cj7bsBj2jOTuEAUVaPt5.gif)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2010 22:19:12 GMT
Sadly, I suspect will will see very early in the competition just why Villa fans have been lambasting Heskey. He may have been 'effective' occasionally partnered with Roony but his current form is worse than wank. I can well understand why a striker, who works his nuts off all season, scores a hat-full of goals for his club and has been in fantastic form, might just tell Capello to fuck off when he sees Heskey lining up. I understand the argument for Heskey - just think it's utter bollocks. It depends if by "occasionally" you mean "in the majority of qualifying games". If he only played well in one or two games he wouldn't be in the squad. Like him or not, rate him or not (and he's been vile for Villa this season) he was an important part of a hugely successful qualifying campaign and has proven his worth in Capello's system in that respect.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2010 22:20:59 GMT
I wouldn’t take Bent, it would be a waste of a space IMO. Rooney is the main man up front and then you have the options of whether to play Heskey or Crouch alongside him. Heskey is Rooney’s favourite but it’s difficult to look past Crouch with his scoring record for England. Behind these 3 you have Defoe as 4th choice. Again, he could play alongside either Heskey or Crouch as the pacey option alongside the target man. If required (which I can’t really see the need) you could have Walcott as a 5th option with his out and out pace from the bench. You’ve also got the option of playing someone like Cole, Lampard, Gerrard etc behind one front man (Rooney). Why would Bent be a waste of a space and Defoe not?
|
|
|
Post by thestonehill on May 11, 2010 23:03:43 GMT
www.thefa.com/England/News/2010/Provisional-SquadSquad list Goalkeepers Joe Hart, David James, Robert Green Defenders Leighton Baines, Jamie Carragher, Ashley Cole, Michael Dawson, Rio Ferdinand, Glen Johnson, Ledley King, John Terry, Matthew Upson, Stephen Warnock Midfielders Gareth Barry, Michael Carrick, Joe Cole, Steven Gerrard, Tom Huddlestone, Adam Johnson, Frank Lampard, Aaron Lennon, James Milner, Scott Parker, Theo Walcott, Shaun Wright-Phillips Forwards Darren Bent, Peter Crouch, Jermain Defoe, Emile Heskey, Wayne Rooney How the bloody hell has david james still in the engalnd squad? and Rio ferdinand hasnt really palyed a game all season, whats he going to do captian us from a hospitial bed?!?!?!?! Doubt we'll win with him captaining hed be off most the time...
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on May 12, 2010 6:06:24 GMT
OK here we go again, fucking Heskey!!
OK so he played in the majority of the qualifying games rob but I didn't say he hadn't. What I said was that he'd played 'effectively' with Rooney in a few of those games and I'm 'well' sticking to that view. The fact that he was on the pitch doesn't mean he either played well or contributed much to those games and (IMO) he contributed fuck all to most of them. As for "he must have played well or he wouldn't keep getting picked" are you having a laugh rob? Just how many examples do you want of, so called, international footballers that have 30/40/50/60 England caps and yet have played half a dozen good games? Three words.......John Fucking Barnes! or Carlton Fucking Palmer or Gary Fucking Neville or Ray Fucking Wilkins (I could go on for the next half hour but you get my drift). Please don't tell me that his contribution goes un-noticed because I've been involved with football for 45 years as a player, a manager and a spectator and I CAN see what happens in front of my eyes and I'm well aware of the role he's on the pitch to play. This is the same stupid argument that some Stoke fans keep making for playing Mama when he's been woeful all season. "Well we need him on the pitch because Ric prefers playing with him and he's the 'cog' around which our game is played" Yeh, right, that's why we've managed 34 goals all season. I know there are other factors but there's no justification for playing players that don't actually do what they are there to do and Mama and Heskey are 'twins' for me in that respect. If they played well then, yes, I could agree with the thinking but Heskey bimbles around, wins next to nothing and creates even less. It's not just an opinion, my eyesight is just fine. Villa fans have it absolutely bang on...He wins nothing, creates nothing and couldn't score in a brothel. It must be so depressing for strikers like Bent who has been in such fine form all season and he knows he's no chance of shifting this massively over-rated donkey from the side. Furthermore, if our World Cup winning plan is to twat the ball up to Heskey for Rooney to feed off - we're fucked! I'm sure Argentina, Brazil, Spain and the like are shitting themselves at that prospect (I know I am).
As for Carragher being miles better than Neville - well it's an opinion. Personally, I don't rate either of them but Carragher has been particularly shite this season and his own fans know that, despite their scouse-idol worship for him. He also poured scorn on England not so very long ago but has re-found his love for them with a World Cup in the offing - wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.
bayern: As for Neville not being fit to wipe Carraghers arse you are entitled to that opinion but I'll beg to differ with you on that one. Both are well past it, truth be told, but both have been decent defenders. Neville offers far more going forward (in fact Carragher offers nothing in that respect) and one of the two has a heart as big as a frying pan where England is concerned and it's not Jamie Fucking Carragher. Neville not fit to wipe the arse of a wanker who once said that losing with England didn't bother him? If that's the type of player you prefer to a patriotic, passionate, whole-hearted if somewhat limited player then help yourself. I'll pass.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 8:18:30 GMT
I wouldn’t take Bent, it would be a waste of a space IMO. Rooney is the main man up front and then you have the options of whether to play Heskey or Crouch alongside him. Heskey is Rooney’s favourite but it’s difficult to look past Crouch with his scoring record for England. Behind these 3 you have Defoe as 4th choice. Again, he could play alongside either Heskey or Crouch as the pacey option alongside the target man. If required (which I can’t really see the need) you could have Walcott as a 5th option with his out and out pace from the bench. You’ve also got the option of playing someone like Cole, Lampard, Gerrard etc behind one front man (Rooney). Why would Bent be a waste of a space and Defoe not? Because you don't need both. Read what I put again. Defoe would be in there alongside Rooney, Crouch and Heskey for me. If you need a fifth option then you have the option of Walcott with his out and out pace that gives you a completely different option. Bent and Defoe are similar. You could always use someone like Lampard, Cole, Gerrard et al behind one forward (Rooney). You don't need 5 strikers in the squad IMO.
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on May 12, 2010 8:19:53 GMT
By the way, trying to tempt Paul "worst tackler in football" Scholes out of retirement is a fucking embarrassement too.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 12:25:41 GMT
Why would Bent be a waste of a space and Defoe not? Because you don't need both. Read what I put again. Defoe would be in there alongside Rooney, Crouch and Heskey for me. If you need a fifth option then you have the option of Walcott with his out and out pace that gives you a completely different option. Bent and Defoe are similar. You could always use someone like Lampard, Cole, Gerrard et al behind one forward (Rooney). You don't need 5 strikers in the squad IMO. I'd take 5 strikers anyway, but my point is that why should Defoe go before Bent? What's he done to deserve it?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 12:33:16 GMT
OK here we go again, fucking Heskey!! OK so he played in the majority of the qualifying games rob but I didn't say he hadn't. What I said was that he'd played 'effectively' with Rooney in a few of those games and I'm 'well' sticking to that view. The fact that he was on the pitch doesn't mean he either played well or contributed much to those games and (IMO) he contributed fuck all to most of them. As for "he must have played well or he wouldn't keep getting picked" are you having a laugh rob? Just how many examples do you want of, so called, international footballers that have 30/40/50/60 England caps and yet have played half a dozen good games? Three words.......John Fucking Barnes! or Carlton Fucking Palmer or Gary Fucking Neville or Ray Fucking Wilkins (I could go on for the next half hour but you get my drift). Please don't tell me that his contribution goes un-noticed because I've been involved with football for 45 years as a player, a manager and a spectator and I CAN see what happens in front of my eyes and I'm well aware of the role he's on the pitch to play. This is the same stupid argument that some Stoke fans keep making for playing Mama when he's been woeful all season. "Well we need him on the pitch because Ric prefers playing with him and he's the 'cog' around which our game is played" Yeh, right, that's why we've managed 34 goals all season. I know there are other factors but there's no justification for playing players that don't actually do what they are there to do and Mama and Heskey are 'twins' for me in that respect. If they played well then, yes, I could agree with the thinking but Heskey bimbles around, wins next to nothing and creates even less. It's not just an opinion, my eyesight is just fine. Villa fans have it absolutely bang on...He wins nothing, creates nothing and couldn't score in a brothel. It must be so depressing for strikers like Bent who has been in such fine form all season and he knows he's no chance of shifting this massively over-rated donkey from the side. Furthermore, if our World Cup winning plan is to twat the ball up to Heskey for Rooney to feed off - we're fucked! I'm sure Argentina, Brazil, Spain and the like are shitting themselves at that prospect (I know I am). As for Carragher being miles better than Neville - well it's an opinion. Personally, I don't rate either of them but Carragher has been particularly shite this season and his own fans know that, despite their scouse-idol worship for him. He also poured scorn on England not so very long ago but has re-found his love for them with a World Cup in the offing - wouldn't touch him with a barge pole. bayern: As for Neville not being fit to wipe Carraghers arse you are entitled to that opinion but I'll beg to differ with you on that one. Both are well past it, truth be told, but both have been decent defenders. Neville offers far more going forward (in fact Carragher offers nothing in that respect) and one of the two has a heart as big as a frying pan where England is concerned and it's not Jamie Fucking Carragher. Neville not fit to wipe the arse of a wanker who once said that losing with England didn't bother him? If that's the type of player you prefer to a patriotic, passionate, whole-hearted if somewhat limited player then help yourself. I'll pass. Doz - quite the rant there. you're wide of the mark in comparing Heskey to Mama in this scenario. Our style of play involves us booting it up to him. Capello's onus is on retaining possession - if you watched the qualifiers as you claim you'd have noted that we actually went for the Sven long ball route far far far less under the current manager than in previous eras. Heskey's role was to the nuisance factor - drawing defenders away from Rooney and the midfield, creating space and generally being hard to play against. you mention, probably rightly, Stoke's lack of goals this season, but England were actually one of the top scorers in qualifying, and Heskey, in my opinion, played the role expected of him perfectly well. I'm not saying I'd start him, I'm not denying he's been poor for villa - i'm just explaining why Capello has decided to take him and, given that he worked well within a very effective system, it's a very understandable decision.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 12:35:44 GMT
Because you don't need both. Read what I put again. Defoe would be in there alongside Rooney, Crouch and Heskey for me. If you need a fifth option then you have the option of Walcott with his out and out pace that gives you a completely different option. Bent and Defoe are similar. You could always use someone like Lampard, Cole, Gerrard et al behind one forward (Rooney). You don't need 5 strikers in the squad IMO. I'd take 5 strikers anyway, but my point is that why should Defoe go before Bent? What's he done to deserve it? He’s the better player of the 2 for my money and more likely to make an impact on the international stage.
|
|
|
Post by gaznandi on May 12, 2010 12:38:27 GMT
From what i gather Heskey is in there because Zamora turned the chance down because he knows he has to have an operation..?
I know the latter part of thats right anyhoo......
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 12:41:22 GMT
I'd take 5 strikers anyway, but my point is that why should Defoe go before Bent? What's he done to deserve it? He’s the better player of the 2 for my money and more likely to make an impact on the international stage. Bent's scoring record is better though. On what grounds is Defoe more likely to have an impact? On what grounds is he better?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 12:43:43 GMT
He’s the better player of the 2 for my money and more likely to make an impact on the international stage. Bent's scoring record is better though. On what grounds is Defoe more likely to have an impact? On what grounds is he better? Goals alone isn't what it's decided on though, is it. Bent's had a great season goals-wise but I imagine Defoe hit around or close to the 20 mark too. It's all about opinions and I firmly believe Defoe is a better option than Bent at international level. If Defoe can hit anything like the form he produced over the first half of the season he is unstoppable.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on May 12, 2010 12:45:08 GMT
I think Bent's very unlucky. His career PL record is quite a bit better than Defoe, and they both offer pretty much nothing except goals.
Defoe's international record is good in the last year, but all of his goals (bar his 2 against Holland) have come against the international dross, whereas Bent has been given hardly a sniff to make any kind of case
|
|
|
Post by Birchesheadpotter on May 12, 2010 12:47:04 GMT
Plus Defoe isn't quite the cunt that Bent is.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 12:50:32 GMT
I think Bent's very unlucky. His career PL record is quite a bit better than Defoe, and they both offer pretty much nothing except goals. Defoe's international record is good in the last year, but all of his goals (bar his 2 against Holland) have come against the international dross, whereas Bent has been given hardly a sniff to make any kind of case It's mystifying how bent has been continually overlooked despite having consistently scored goals wherever he's been. I just don't see what Defoe offers in his game that Bent lacks.
|
|
|
Post by gaznandi on May 12, 2010 12:53:48 GMT
Plus Defoe isn't quite the cunt that Bent is. I think West Ham fans might disagree with you on that one ......
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 12:55:19 GMT
Plus Defoe isn't quite the cunt that Bent is. I think West Ham fans might disagree with you on that one ...... And Charlton fans. And maybe even Pompey fans.
|
|
|
Post by gaznandi on May 12, 2010 12:55:30 GMT
I think Bent's very unlucky. His career PL record is quite a bit better than Defoe, and they both offer pretty much nothing except goals. Defoe's international record is good in the last year, but all of his goals (bar his 2 against Holland) have come against the international dross, whereas Bent has been given hardly a sniff to make any kind of case I just don't see what Defoe offers in his game that Bent lacks. He scores goals that Harry Redknapps missus cant... ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 12:56:42 GMT
I think Bent's very unlucky. His career PL record is quite a bit better than Defoe, and they both offer pretty much nothing except goals. Defoe's international record is good in the last year, but all of his goals (bar his 2 against Holland) have come against the international dross, whereas Bent has been given hardly a sniff to make any kind of case It's mystifying how bent has been continually overlooked despite having consistently scored goals wherever he's been. I just don't see what Defoe offers in his game that Bent lacks. International experience. Caps, and goals, for England.
|
|
|
Post by gaznandi on May 12, 2010 12:56:50 GMT
I think West Ham fans might disagree with you on that one ...... And Charlton fans. And maybe even Pompey fans. Remember his written transfer request less than 24 hours after the hammers had been relegated..?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 13:00:47 GMT
It's mystifying how bent has been continually overlooked despite having consistently scored goals wherever he's been. I just don't see what Defoe offers in his game that Bent lacks. International experience. Caps, and goals, for England. Not Bent's fault he's been overlooked is it? Bizarre that the odd goal against Andorra apparently makes all the difference. I imagine Bent would have done just as well against the teams Defoe has bagged against. Just my opinion like.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 13:05:28 GMT
International experience. Caps, and goals, for England. Not Bent's fault he's been overlooked is it? Bizarre that the odd goal against Andorra apparently makes all the difference. I imagine Bent would have done just as well against the teams Defoe has bagged against. Just my opinion like. I kind of agree but that’s not the point we were discussing. I agree, Bent should have probably been given more of a chance for England given his scoring record over the years. The point is though, who is the better option right now for England between Defoe and Bent. They are similar players and have both had good seasons respectively however Defoe definitely has the edge as he’s got the experience and he has scored a few for England. That’s why I’d take Defoe over Bent.
|
|
|
Post by gaznandi on May 12, 2010 13:27:12 GMT
Should Robinson have got in..? His stats seem far better than Green or James and on a par with Hart... Is Allardyce right..? www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6149143,00.html
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on May 12, 2010 13:37:30 GMT
I was saying this last night. Robinson has been in far better form this season than Green or James. Carragher has had a dreadful season and Heskey has been 'that good' his own club fans hate him.
So much for Capello's stement about him only picking players that were playing for their clubs and in good form.
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on May 12, 2010 13:54:52 GMT
rob: I do watch a bit of football mate and I come from a football dominated background in terms of playing and managing and I really can work out what players are there to do. The comparrison with Mama was simply one of styles and Heskey is very much in the Mama mould and I think he'd fit in well at Stoke. The difference is, England were playing (apart from ONE team) a collection of minnows where they were able to keep the ball and play through the midfield. When we play teams that are as good, if not better than us, we will revert to long balls up to Heskey and I KNOW it will happen. If Heskey's role was to 'take the hits' for Rooney and generally make a nuisance of himself against the likes of Azerbyjamjar then good for him for being able to fuck about and do very little against a team of shepherds whilst Rooney gets on with being a footballer. Yes we were top scorers and look who we played! He's a poor player rob who has had a dreadful season and if that deserves international recognition then I freely admit that I know nothing. The comparrison with Mama is spot on IMO. Yes England played the ball much more on the floor against a collection of Europe's worst footballing nations who (incidentally) I'd back Stoke to beat but Heskey could slip into Stoke's team tomorrow and we hardly know Mama had been replaced. He's that type of player.
By the way rob, my last post wasn't a rant, just a response to the constant excuse making for the selection of players that we all think are barely good enough for Stoke. Players who can't get into their club sides and, when they have played, they've been awful. Don't even get me started on Carragher again! ;D
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 12, 2010 14:44:15 GMT
Heskey is a donkey but he gets the best out of Rooney and should start. God that was painful. I'm off to confession! ;D
|
|
|
Post by dozintheseventees on May 12, 2010 15:12:55 GMT
bayern: Posters such as yourself and rob, who's opinions I always respect (if not agree with) have me completely and utterly bemused here. You're both admitting that the bloke's wank and that his club form is awful but you still think he should be picked for England because he's occasionally looked OK at manhandling the odd postman and turnip grower from Eastern Europe on our way to qualifying in one of the easiest groups in history. Help me out here....He's crap, in dreadful form, a very limited player anyway but should play for England??? He gets the best out of Rooney? Really? There was me thinking that Rooney has been light years ahead of anyone else this season for his club who, far from having Heskey in their team, don't even have anyone who remotely plays that game. Do you think they might be in for him in the summer to try and improve Rooney's game? I can see the utter delight on the United fans' faces from here. Rooney is much better up front ALONE than being paired with Heskey. Sorry about the sarcasm fellas but you've really got me stumped here. In fact, it's a bit depressing that folks who always talk a lot of sense are advocationg such a depressing style of play to take into a World Cup campaign. Sorry, that's the way I feel.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 12, 2010 15:18:32 GMT
Doz, as Rob can back me up on I detest Heskey and before today I haven't wanted him in the squad. But Rob is right. It's like Mama. What the fuck does he do? Fuck all but we play better with him. It's baffling.
I agree with every word You've put but Heskey for Capello works.
|
|