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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 22, 2010 10:27:50 GMT
So the conclusion of the Oatcake brains trust and illuminati is that we should try and be more like fucking Wigan Athletic. I really do give up with some people on this site  |
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Post by alster on Apr 22, 2010 10:40:40 GMT
I think you will find there is a huge difference in the offensive/defensive balance between teams like Chelsea, Villa and that of Stoke. They may play the formation but there the similarity ends. Its not simply an issue of quality its an issue of mindset and attacking intent. Disagree - quality has a lot to do with it. Having watched Villa and have a fair few Villa mates, they mainly play on the break, even at home. Take last nights game. They could of just of easily lost that game if Hull were not so poor in front of goal. Villa went one up and then couldnt put them to the sword. They could of just as easily lost like we did. IF we get a good passing/attack minded midfielder in, another striker and a pacy right winger, we will start to look a bit more like a Villa side (albeit less expensive players and tehrefore still a gap in quality) So I take it Suffolk your saying a midfield of Whitehead/delap/whelan/Etherington is just a lesser quality version of Ashley Young/James Milner/Stylian Petrov/Stewart Downing I'm afraid its simply not the case, the players in Villa's midfield are far more attacking players Ethers is our only attacking midfielder regularly deployed in the starting line up this season. |
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Post by dozintheseventees on Apr 22, 2010 10:44:02 GMT
Momo: I enter an 'innocent' plea on that one mate and share your dismay.  Edit: I've just managed to swap our seats for better ones for next season and I honestly can't wait for another season of Premier League football to come around - Thanks TP/PC and players. |
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Post by alster on Apr 22, 2010 10:47:20 GMT
So the conclusion of the Oatcake brains trust and illuminati is that we should try and be more like fucking Wigan Athletic. I really do give up with some people on this site What is it you give up on people who have been going Stoke since they were nippers wishing their team would attempt to play more entertaining football. Your problem with that is? |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 22, 2010 10:47:26 GMT
Momo: I enter an 'innocent' plea on that one mate and share your dismay. Edit: I've just managed to swap our seats for better ones for next season and I honestly can't wait for another season of Premier League football to come around - Thanks TP/PC and players. Case dismissed for you doz. I'm just getting my black cap out for a suitable sentence for the rest of them! |
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Post by sufolkstokie on Apr 22, 2010 10:47:49 GMT
Disagree - quality has a lot to do with it. Having watched Villa and have a fair few Villa mates, they mainly play on the break, even at home. Take last nights game. They could of just of easily lost that game if Hull were not so poor in front of goal. Villa went one up and then couldnt put them to the sword. They could of just as easily lost like we did. IF we get a good passing/attack minded midfielder in, another striker and a pacy right winger, we will start to look a bit more like a Villa side (albeit less expensive players and tehrefore still a gap in quality) So I take it Suffolk your saying a midfield of Whitehead/delap/whelan/Etherington is just a lesser quality version of Ashley Young/James Milner/Stylian Petrov/Stewart Downing I'm afraid its simply not the case, the players in Villa's midfield are far more attacking players Ethers is our only attacking midfielder regularly deployed in the starting line up this season. Nah bud - we are no where near em yet. Just future gazing and saying IF we get a good right winger and an attack minded midfielder we will look a bit more like em - in terms of we will be able counter attack on the floor more and mix it up with long balls - just like they do albeit with more quality players than us at the mo |
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Post by checkmatestokie on Apr 22, 2010 10:48:23 GMT
Well said joethestokie - I agree with everything you've said.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 22, 2010 10:49:21 GMT
So the conclusion of the Oatcake brains trust and illuminati is that we should try and be more like fucking Wigan Athletic. I really do give up with some people on this site What is it you give up on people who have been going Stoke since they were nippers wishing their team would attempt to play more entertaining football. Your problem with that is? I'm happy with successful football. I do not want my team, in particular my team's defence, to play anything like Wigan fucking Athletic. I am perfectly happy with them playing like Stoke City, you know, the best Stoke CIty side for over 30 years. |
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 22, 2010 10:49:27 GMT
So the conclusion of the Oatcake brains trust and illuminati is that we should try and be more like fucking Wigan Athletic. I really do give up with some people on this site ;D ;D Wouldn't mind their foreign scouts, though. Reminds me of this, somehow. |
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Post by gamesmaster on Apr 22, 2010 10:55:41 GMT
What is it you give up on people who have been going Stoke since they were nippers wishing their team would attempt to play more entertaining football. Your problem with that is? I'm happy with successful football. I do not want my team, in particular my team's defence, to play anything like Wigan fucking Athletic. I am perfectly happy with them playing like Stoke City, you know, the best Stoke CIty side for over 30 years. Momo, absolutely spot on. |
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Post by BoxxyTheLost on Apr 22, 2010 10:56:51 GMT
So the conclusion of the Oatcake brains trust and illuminati is that we should try and be more like fucking Wigan Athletic. I really do give up with some people on this site What is it you give up on people who have been going Stoke since they were nippers wishing their team would attempt to play more entertaining football. Your problem with that is? and this raise that old question of Just what is entertaining football? because honest to God i fucking LOVE the way we play. bombing balls into the box, all we need is to be a little more clinical. Not completely change the way we play. |
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Post by jacka118 on Apr 22, 2010 10:58:59 GMT
To be fair, Joe, I think you're going a little over the top here. For a start, you no more know that Tuncay was going off to prevent stiffening up than he was having a strop. None of us know for certain. Some of the noises Pulis has been making suggest it was the latter, but whatever it is, it's not a popular move. If the manager is alright with it and he performs for us, it's fine with me. If it becomes a problem and he plays poorly, then something needs doing. With each of Beattie, Lawrence, Kitson and Tuncay there has been something going on behind the scenes. Lawrence was one of the four players in the Championship that we couldn't do without and once he'd built his fitness up, he made a fine contribution to our cause last season. I just don't think the manager trusts him any more after his canine capers last season. Again, we don't know the full story. He's big mates with Beattie, which I suppose doesn't help if he sided with him in the towelgate business or, indeed, if he was the mystery leak. When reading the teams out, Mark O'Connor suggested that we were disappointed with Liam's contribution this season, that'd he'd played superbly for Ireland, but never turned it on for us. I'm inclined to agree. You can point to his lack of games as a reason for him underperforming this season, but when he goes and plays his heart out for Ireland with a real man of the match performance, you have to wonder. I can think of one good game off the top of my head that Lawrence has had for us, but he's stood out in every single game for Ireland, putting McGeady on the other flank to shame with his work rate. I don't want to see him go, but he's going to have to buck his ideas up and really impress in every opportunity he gets. He was awful against Hull and epitomised average against Bolton. James Beattie, then. Exactly what we needed last season and was viewed by both manager and fans as our best target man option, for the simple reason that when he is on, we have a massive goalscoring threat. We have to rely on the target man winning it in the air less, as he wasn't so good at that, but with Etherington as a get out ball it worked great. Beattie just has that eye for goal that's very rare amongst footballers. Again, though, this season has been something else altogether. He turned up in pre-season looking apathetic, he hurt himself against Birmingham and he's been very apathetic all season. Being headbutted by your boss is one thing, but if the same people who reported the headbutt are to be believed, Beattie was acting like a real dick prior to the whole thing anyway. I mean really, demanding two days holiday for a Christmas party in London after a defeat and then calling the manager a liar to the whole squad, despite it later being confirmed that the training schedules had been printed in advance. Based on his performances and the off the pitch stuff, I'd happily see him go for the benefit of the club. Dave Kitson is one who I would see was mistreated to an extent. His head was all wrong in his first season, but he fixed himself in the summer and he came back with the right attitude. He made something of himself and scored goals, while putting in good performances. The manager preferred Beattie, though, and left Kitson out against Everton. Wrong move. Beattie was massively unfit and it sent Kitson haywire again. It took another loan spell for him to rehabilitate and we're now seeing the best of him. I promise you he won't be dropped for Mama this season, barring fitness or injury problems, he just won't. The manager isn't daft and unlike Beattie, Lawrence and Tuncay, he's seen him performing the role he's been given. He may well be substituted for Mama, but then Kitson to me really drops off after about 35 minutes and is shattered after an hour. He gets involved still, but doesn't do quite enough and it can cost the team, as against Bolton. I doubt he'll be sold, I really do. Tuncay, meh. Doesn't fit in our system and is easily our most frustrating player. Sometimes he's good, sometimes he can't get himself involved. He doesn't have a best position and I don't think there's a modern team that really has room for a player who's at his best when given no responsibilities whatsoever. When he was absolutely shite against Villa, easily the worst player on the pitch through his own making (not Sidibe's or anyone elses), he started with the arm waving and gesturing at his own players. I hate that, I really do. If we find a place for him and he can turn it on, he can stay. If not, I don't really care if he goes. He's a decent link up player, but he has the first touch of an elephant and he's wildly inconsistent. Why does the manager 'favour' certain players? Maybe there is a hint of sentimentality, but I think by and large it's because they do the job that they're told to do when they're on the pitch. Tuncay and Pulis are almost always at odds with each other because Tuncay often doesn't do what's asked of him. Bolton was, in fact, the first game where I've not seen Pulis have to say anything to Tuncay because he's done all that was necessary. The fact is, I don't think any of us really know what the job the manager wants of his players is. We can all think that a player does reasonably, but he'll be screaming at them from the sidelines and may well dump them out of the team. I'm not going to pretend that I know better than him. Absolutely agree with everything you have said MD, well said. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 22, 2010 11:01:42 GMT
So the conclusion of the Oatcake brains trust and illuminati is that we should try and be more like fucking Wigan Athletic. I really do give up with some people on this site ;D ;D Wouldn't mind their foreign scouts, though. Reminds me of this, somehow.  'I'm going to have to ask for the pager back fromafar.' |
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Post by alster on Apr 22, 2010 11:03:41 GMT
What is it you give up on people who have been going Stoke since they were nippers wishing their team would attempt to play more entertaining football. Your problem with that is? and this raise that old question of Just what is entertaining football? because honest to God i fucking LOVE the way we play. bombing balls into the box, all we need is to be a little more clinical. Not completely change the way we play. You are as entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I hate the way we play and am not afraid to admit it. |
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Post by Miles Offside on Apr 22, 2010 11:08:53 GMT
Having Kitson, Tuncay and Beattie moved on won't see us relegated.
How many goals have they scored between them this season?
And before anybody mentions how many Ric has scored, he does summat the others don't do - he terrifies defences even when he's not scoring.
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Post by MrMagic on Apr 22, 2010 11:20:05 GMT
What cracking post - generally good debate for a change (or course with the odd notable exceptions ) I'm not sure about the stropping off incident. At the time I thought he was out of order, but on reflection; He shook the hand of the ref He shook Fullers hand I think he shook TP's but I'm not sure He spoke to Reid He then went off, and applauded the fans as he went. He was very soon back at the mouth of the tunnel and watched the rest of the game from there having got changed Some of this does not point to the act of someone being mardy to me, but that is just my opinion. I guess it suits agendas from both sides to either "big up " or "play down " the incident. Inerestingly, my wife sat in the west stand on Saturday, and she reckons that the majority of people around her were applauding Tuncay at the time. Its interesting that a few hundred boos at most, generally from the Boothen and South stands has now turned into a cast of THOUSANDS baying for his blood |
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Post by nottspotter on Apr 22, 2010 11:31:44 GMT
Well firstly to respond to the original post. To lose all of Tunc Lennie Kits and Beattie would be a major worry especially as i think they would be replaced by less flair and more aaaarrdd work. I think its safe to say that BT is a goner and pretty much all would agree that he's marked his own card.Kitson surely has a place in the squad on merit. Lennie maybe is in decline for whatever reason, perhaps complacency, but has had a poor season for us. The one I would really be concerned about leaving is Tuncay and clearly TP gets frustrated with him as TP wants him to do the simple things and Tunny is just naturally a maverick. Tunny not surprisingly gets frustrated at the hoof tactics and the lack of football played on the deck. My guess was that he came to use reluctantly as there was no other option for him. So i think he will go and to be probably replaced by another defensive midfield option. Tuncay leaving would be a reflection on TP's poor man management of 'maverick' type players. And Tunny may frustrate the hell out of the manager and many on here but we have a worrying lack of flare and imagination in the team to turn a game...only Fuller and Tuncay can do this. I hope the manager sorts out their differences or at worst replaces him with real quality not just a workhorse. If we lose genuine footballers in Tunny Kitson and Lennie and replace them with Diao/W'head/Sidibe lookalikes then we could be in trouble next season. cheers dupree... a well reasoned argument looking at both sides of the coin.. if only there were more like you on this forum! |
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Post by RAF on Apr 22, 2010 11:46:49 GMT
Whether you agree if Tuncay is world class or not, one thing that is not up for debate is that he is an International Footballer in a fairly good team and one of if not the best player in that side.
I think if it is thought that a player of his calibre is getting treated badly at this club, it will hardly be a great advertisement to attract better players to this club.
It's hard enough at the best of times.
H
P.S - Just for Moanmo I don't want us to play like Wigan either.
That said I wouldn't mind a couple of their players though.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 22, 2010 11:55:42 GMT
Whether you agree if Tuncay is world class or not, one thing that is not up for debate is that he is an International Footballer in a fairly good team and one of if not the best player in that side. I think if it is thought that a player of his calibre is getting treated badly at this club, it will hardly be a great advertisement to attract better players to this club. It's hard enough at the best of times. H P.S - Just for Moanmo I don't want us to play like Wigan either. That said I wouldn't mind a couple of their players though. How the fuck is he being treated badly ??? He's hardly been automatic choice material when he has had a look in as he. He's largely played in exactly the same fashion as he's been substituted. Like a big selfish girls blouse who thinks he's a hell of a lot better than he actually is. Are we seriously suggesting that dropping a player or substituting them is now treating them badly. Maybe the only way to move forward in this league is to buy players with big reputations and to protect their fragile egos guarantee them a starting 11 berth in their position of choice. We wouldn't want to upset the poor mites would we? |
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Post by RAF on Apr 22, 2010 12:07:50 GMT
Exactly what part of did you not understand, or are you now going blind as well as fucking mental?  H |
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Post by actongatestokie on Apr 22, 2010 12:08:04 GMT
Tuncay has been treated no differently to any other squad player. The same goes for Beattie, Kitson and Lawrence.
Out of all of those players, I feel sorry for Kitson the most. He probably didn't deserve to get dropped for footballing reasons and was probably moved out on loan because of off the field problems.
Tuncay has been inconsistent at best, with plenty of scope for improvement. Beattie has been shocking from Pre-Season onwards and Lawrence has been badly affected by the Beattie saga. If he hasn't, then I dare say his massive drop in form is one hell of a coincidence.
I'm failing to see the over the top correlation of us selling these players and getting relegated - especially since we have comfortably finished in midtable with these players only playing bit parts of our campaign.
Tuncay we would miss the most if he left, due to factors on and off the pitch (A high calibre player helps to attract others). Beattie and Lawrence we wouldn't miss one bit due to their lack of input this season. Kitson is a 50/50 for me based on his skill set and how it matches that of our team at this point in time.
I hope the manager brings in two types of players this summer at the very least. A quality winger who can beat a man and cross and a young/hungry striker with the bit between his teeth.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 22, 2010 12:17:49 GMT
Exactly what part of did you not understand, or are you now going blind as well as fucking mental? H Exactly. It IS thought by some that he is being treated badly (even disgracefully according to the author of this thread) those morons should be ignored at all costs! |
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Post by RAF on Apr 22, 2010 12:19:52 GMT
So you're going blind then! Thanks for clearing that up. H |
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Post by eriksson74 on Apr 22, 2010 12:21:50 GMT
Exactly what part of did you not understand, or are you now going blind as well as fucking mental? H Exactly. It IS thought by some that he is being treated badly (even disgracefully according to the author of this thread) those morons should be ignored at all costs! Perhaps we should ask Tuncay, surely its down to the individual and if they tend to think so, it will be damaging for us when we try and catch one of those apples this close season! |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 22, 2010 12:22:37 GMT
So you're going blind then! Thanks for clearing that up. H
It's hard enough at the best of times.You don't have to be Charles N'Zogbia's theory test taker to understand the point of Pulis hating wankstainery you are making |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 22, 2010 12:25:56 GMT
Exactly. It IS thought by some that he is being treated badly (even disgracefully according to the author of this thread) those morons should be ignored at all costs! Perhaps we should ask Tuncay, surely its down to the individual and if they tend to think so, it will be damaging for us when we try and catch one of those apples this close season! You can bet your bollocks when he is sold it will be a matter of seconds before he's off crying to the Constantinople Bugle about his 'Stoke Hell' He seem the 'its everybody's fault but mine and everyone's against me' sort. |
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Post by RAF on Apr 22, 2010 12:27:26 GMT
Don't be a thick cunt Momo, that never even crossed my mind.
If I wanted to have a pop at TP I'd fucking say it, not piss around with hyperbole.
You should know better of me by now!
H
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Post by alster on Apr 22, 2010 12:34:52 GMT
Exactly. It IS thought by some that he is being treated badly (even disgracefully according to the author of this thread) those morons should be ignored at all costs! Perhaps we should ask Tuncay, surely its down to the individual and if they tend to think so, it will be damaging for us when we try and catch one of those apples this close season! Thats along the same lines as all this PC crap we now have to suffer at work. People being offended and if they felt offended you did something wrong no matter how unjustified their feeling of being offended is. Surely someone can only be judged to have been treated badly if a right minded independent person can agree with their claim. I think Tuncay had more of a case in his first few months at the club when he was not given any decent opportunities, since then he has had loads of opportunities with mixed outcomes and clearly does not fit into the way Pulis wants to play. This does not make him badly treated nor does it make him a bad footballer its just an unfortunate set of circumstances for all parties. |
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Post by dozintheseventees on Apr 22, 2010 12:47:31 GMT
alster my fiend, we are in complete agreement. See it does happen! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2010 12:48:11 GMT
Just a few points:
Tuncay WAS being petulant. He made a dismissive hand gesture in the direction of the bench and was shaking his head every second he was walking off before studiously ignoring the manager and stomping off. Don't give me any of this, "ooh he just wants the bath to himself" queenery.
Aston Villa and Chelsea SHOULD play better than us given the resources and name value available to them shouldn't they? And even then Villa are often hugely negative and dire to watch.
I wonder if Wigan fans are happy with "playing like Wigan athletic", given that Martinez seems to have split the fans and they'll stay up by the skin of their teeth this season?
Exactly who is playing this glorious top flight football outside the top 6 or so clubs? Wigan? Hanging in there. Burnley? Doomed. Would people really rather swap where we are now for a relegation battle for the sake of a few pretty passes here and there?
TP has "driven us mad with his football" has he? presumably only if you weren't there for Ball, Jordan, Little, Bates, Kamara and Thordarson. You'd think from the way some of you whinge that we were still in the third tier and that before Pulis came here we were playing like Ajax.
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'I'm going to have to ask for the pager back fromafar.'
