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Post by luke45 on Apr 22, 2010 7:42:05 GMT
First of all, I have seen very little of people on hearing calling for Kitson to be " fucked off " in the summer.
And just what has Lawrence done in the time he's had a pitch to warrant this extended run in the side you speak of? He's had time on the field to make a case for a run in the side ( 29 appearances this season ) and he just hasn't done the business. Nobody's questioning what he's brought to the club as a whole, nor what he is capable of producing, but his form this season has been poor to say the least.
Whitehead " plodding " up and down the flanks ??? if ever there was an example of a player who doesn't plod around the field it's Dean Whitehead, he's as gooder worker eithic as any player has posessed at this club for some time.
And maybe I'm amongst a minority here, but I don't buy into this myth of Whelan being this great central midfielder people think he is. His form has been inconsistant all season, he doesn't break play down as well as Whithead or Delap, and whilst his distribution is probably the best of our central midfielders, its still far from creative and far from the long term alternative.
If James Beattie isn't the first name on the sheet to be shipped off in the Summer then there's something sadly wrong. HIS behaviour has been disgraceful, not Pulis's. He's looked dis-interested and unfit all season, and hasn't shown any desire to break into the first-team picture.
Again, maybe i'm amongst a minority here, but I would've fined Tuncay each and every time he's stormed down the tunnel this season, as Mystical Descent says above, you don't know no more of Tuncay's motives for going down the tunnel than we do. Pulis may have come out and played the situation down, but the fact he said on radio stoke after the game that the fans were " entitled " to boo Tuncay off tells me he wasn't best pleased with Tuncay's behaviour either.
You talk about the likes of Cole, Rodallega, Heskey, Parker etc...as plays that wont sign for Stoke, you're probably right, but I think I would share the feeling with many that I want to see us going in for this players nonetheless, as it shows the intent this club has. Obviously we shouldn't throw all our eggs into one basket on these types of players, but Pulis himself knows that.
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Post by albanianstokie on Apr 22, 2010 7:50:30 GMT
if we sell our best players and don't replace them with same or better we will go down, end of. But Pulis isn't stupid, pig headed yes, stupid no.
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Post by Irish Stokie on Apr 22, 2010 7:51:57 GMT
wasn't the booing because he was being a petulant little cunt because he'd been subbed? Did you not read my post? He wasn't being petulant - he was going to the dressing room to get straight into the bath. If he was being petulant, he would've walked straight towards the tunnel and not clapped the fans. Im sorry but that is easily the biggest load of shite i have ever read! To say a player that shakes his head and signals his dissent to the bench while running down the tunnel was trying to look look after his fitness is laughable. He was being extremely petulant and although he could get some slack if it was a once off after the 3rd incident it just shows a total lack of respect for the management and the club in general. Liam has been given more then enough chances to prove himself this season and hasnt had a decent game since wel before christmas. Kits has been unlucky but has been given his chance and is our 1st choice with Ric |
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Post by dozintheseventees on Apr 22, 2010 7:54:17 GMT
On balance, I think I'd prefer to trust the people who got us where we are and have managed to successfully keep us there rather than side with the rambling rant of some supporters who have no faith in those who have served our club so well. Players will leave and some of them will be some fans favourites - that's football and it happens at every club. Our management team have proven that they can be trusted and I continue to trust them to make decisions in the best interests of Stoke City. We all have opinions (even if we have little real knowledge on which to base them) and that's fine but the jist of this thread would seem to suggest that those who run our club haven't got a clue what they're doing and will doom us to relegation with their transfer dealings this summer. If that's what you think well that's fine for you. I credit them with more know-how in the football world than any who spout this crap.
Edit: IMO (for what it's worth), Tuncay has neither been a flop nor a great success, he has simply been rather disappointing. He has performed very well on a couple of occasions and has been a none entity on several more. To even begin to lable him as our best (or even one of our best) players on the evidence so far simply beggars belief. People are basing those opinions on what they THINK he is rather than what they have seen.
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Post by soicowboy2 on Apr 22, 2010 8:00:58 GMT
Personally don't want to Tuncay to go but his attitude sucks.
As for Kitson, Beattie and Kitson I think we may be in a position to bring in better and then YES would be happy to see all three leave and only then.
We desperately need a better ball-player than Glenn Whelan which for me is THE priority for the Summer.
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Post by alster on Apr 22, 2010 8:04:50 GMT
On balance, I think I'd prefer to trust the people who got us where we are and have managed to successfully keep us there rather than side with the rambling rant of some supporters who have no faith in those who have served our club so well. Players will leave and some of them will be some fans favourites - that's football and it happens at every club. Our management team have proven that they can be trusted and I continue to trust them to make decisions in the best interests of Stoke City. We all have opinions (even if we have little real knowledge on which to base them) and that's fine but the jist of this thread would seem to suggest that those who run our club haven't got a clue what they're doing and will doom us to relegation with their transfer dealings this summer. If that's what you think well that's fine for you. I credit them with more know-how in the football world than any who spout this crap. I completely trust our managment team to maintain our Premier League status. I have no faith in their ability to produce a team that plays the game in a manner designed to entertain those watching. |
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Post by dozintheseventees on Apr 22, 2010 8:11:15 GMT
alster: Well you are perfectly entitled to that opinion and I do understand the thinking behind it. But the jist of THIS thread was to suggest that"if we sell all these exceptionally talented and vital players" we will be relegated. That's the argument I have a problem with. Yours is a valid concern.
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Post by alster on Apr 22, 2010 8:21:16 GMT
alster: Well you are perfectly entitled to that opinion and I do understand the thinking behind it. But the jist of THIS thread was to suggest that"if we sell all these exceptionally talented and vital players" we will be relegated. That's the argument I have a problem with. Yours is a valid concern. I don't actually think selling such players would do enourous harm. I believe Pulis will keep us up his way and that will never be with skillfull, talented, entertaining individual players, with the exeption of Ric of course. He's his one weakness. |
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Post by dozintheseventees on Apr 22, 2010 8:39:19 GMT
So what you really want alster is skillfll, talented, entertaining individuals who also bring success. Don't we all my friend but some of us live in the real world and know that such 'individuals' prefer to play for bigger/better/wealthier clubs and there is no guarantee that such players can knit into a team that will deliver on both counts. You quote Wigan on another thread (8 points behind us and only just stayed up). That was with a team that Martinez largely inherited and in a season where they were roundly 'thrashed' on several occasions. Be careful what you wish for mate.
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Post by alster on Apr 22, 2010 8:59:30 GMT
So what you really want alster is skillfll, talented, entertaining individuals who also bring success. Don't we all my friend but some of us live in the real world and know that such 'individuals' prefer to play for bigger/better/wealthier clubs and there is no guarantee that such players can knit into a team that will deliver on both counts. You quote Wigan on another thread (8 points behind us and only just stayed up). That was with a team that Martinez largely inherited and in a season where they were roundly 'thrashed' on several occasions. Be careful what you wish for mate. Wigan should survive and on a much smaller investment in players than Stoke. Martinez has said quite openly that he has had to attempt to completely alter the mindset of the players he inherited from the more Pulislike Bruce's fear of losing to a far more positive approach. So all in all a similar level of sucess from the two managers. I like to let my judgment reflect what I've seen with my own eyes so I'll use the game between the two teams at the Brit to say that Wigan play better football than Stoke and are more entertaining to watch. I'm in no way thinking of becoming a Wigan fan or stopping going to Stoke I'm simply saying it as I see it. Pulis has worked wonders at Stoke but its usually horrible to watch. FACT. |
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Post by smirny72 on Apr 22, 2010 8:59:46 GMT
In my eyes Tuncay was direspectful. Surely he could wait for a bath like the rest of the team. The man needs to grow up and stop acting like a 2 year old. I didnt boo him, but I was disgusted with him as I would be if it was any of the others. If they want to come over and play English football then they must learn and abide by our ways. Everyone is entiitled to their opinion and I feel Tuncay owes the fans and team an apology. As for being relegated lets wait and see what Tony pulls off over the summer. If he gets rid of Beattie, Tuncay and Lawrence he will surely have replacements, give him chance. In my opinion Beattie hasnt played that well this year, but saying that he has been injured a lot. Remember he wanted to go elsewherre but they didnt want to pay the extortionate wage he wanted. As for Lawrence he hasnt exactly been our star player has he. Hes made a fair few mistakes. Saying all this I always get behind whichever players are on the field and Im glad we have another year in the prem and feel we have many more! Goarn Stoke
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Post by sufolkstokie on Apr 22, 2010 9:03:24 GMT
It would appear that the frustration of wanting more, albeit better nogga or a higher position is starting to creep in and pretty much nearly every player (minus Ryan and Matty) at some time on this board has been blamed. The manager is blamed on a more regular basis than most.
This is no different to most supporter boards, including the top teams. I have no idea why some think we are unique in this - it was always the same and now hero status players under Waddo had numerous slagging off's as did the great man himself.
On to our current status. I do get frustrated by key players and some management decisions, but I have to remind myself that we are only in our second year of a 5 year plan. We have come along way in such a short time (short in terms of 2nd year in the Prem).
Our Manager - he has stated and restated a 5 year plan and 3 years whatever it takes just to establish us. TP is surrounded by some of the best wise old heads and although he takes the final decision, it is a collective input. To this end, they know what they are doing (most of the time).
Sometimes he may not listen, but to constantly ignore Reid and Francis would see them out of the door, they dont need to hang around. I therefore assume/conclude that they know they are part of something special for this club going forward.
Our Nogga
For me some already look at least year through rose coloured glasses. Our style was blood and thunder, which I loved, but only tiny glimpses of what some call proper nogga. It was entertainment on a different level.
I think we have evolved this year with some more nogga on the ground, but we will resort to hoof nogga - you just cant turn that off overnight. But for example, Villa away, we looked like a totally different team than the year before - yes we lost and shouldnt of, but last season we drew when frankly we got our arses smacked - that is nogga
TP, Coates, Francis and Reid all know that they have to balance staying up with progression of more on the deck nogga to get more bums on seats. It has to become more appealing if SCFC want to expand to 35,000 (which they have indicated they want to- back to 5 years plan) as we have probably reached the max level of supporters who just want to see us in the Prem and some of those may wander away. If we can see this, they as sure as hell can.
Players - everyone has their personal favourites and dislikes. This is shown in Joe's original post where he asks for support for 4 players and then lambasts the rest of the midfield. Others rate Delap/Woody /Whelan and others rate two but not the other.
Bringing in Tuncay (regardless of who else wanted him or not) shows intent by the club. Sometimes these work and sometimes they dont - at every club. The problem with us is we have so few flair players and I cant believe he is playing for little old Stoke players that the spotlight and expectation is a lot higher.
But if you look beyond the flouncing off, the good and bad games and look at his time at Boro - he has pretty much a similar record. Sometimes he was magical for them and sometimes the fans didnt even know if he was on the pitch. However he was one of several very good players and therefore the spotlight was reduced some what.
Other fans of other clubs will gladly kick the boot in re the Tuncay situation because it is an easy target, but my Boro mate warned me what he is like and indeed he is.
It is a team ethic - Tuncay was part of a Boro team with O'Neill, Johnson, Huth and some others so called stars and yet they went down and looked very poor. West Brom played carpet footie and went down. Stoke are building from the back and doing it very well. Now is hopefully the year they address the middle a bit more and the front (back to 5 year plan again).
We all have our views on who should stay and who should go - but we dont know the state of mind of the players and their day in day out attitude. Kitson would of gone, but we couldnt off load and to be fair both parties appear to be making a go of it again. For the rest I agree with WD and Dozin re indvidual players, but really apart from Beattie, where it so obvious to anyone, what do we really know behind the scenes. Just look at Zamora, totally useless last season and a changed footballer this - it happens at every club.
To say if Tuncay does leave we will be doomed and not attract similar flair players is not justified - but only time will tell.
It is about money for players, but from a club perspective we have a very solid foundation, financially sound, great support and on a upward journey with an evolving style of nogga - you would hope some 'better' players would want to be part of that, just as Mr Begovic, who is one of the most exciting goalkeeper talents, did.
Indeed add in the mix of the new training facility, the fans, the expansion plans, the finances and SCFC is a very solid club moving in the right direction when many (not all) around us are hopping on dodgy foundations to survive.
Begovic saw the soild foundations and the vision and he turned Spurs down to be part of this - now surely that more than anything else points to a brighter future.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 22, 2010 9:06:55 GMT
Pulis' treatment of Tuncay, Lawrence and Kitson has been quite frankly, disgraceful. There is plenty of other shit in your post but this bit is special. This bit is utter, total and complete shit |
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Post by french toast on Apr 22, 2010 9:08:56 GMT
There is a growing voice on this messageboard that wants the likes of Tuncay, Lawrence, Beattie and Kitson fucked off. Just what is the point of selling all our best players and retaining the likes of Sidibé and the vast collection of squad players that are thieving money from the club whilst doing nothing? The likes of Soares, Tonge, Griffin, Davies, Amdy Faye, Diao, Sonko have hardly made any appearances for us in the Prem and need getting rid of so we can improve our squad - not established players who we know can do the business in this league. Pulis' treatment of Tuncay, Lawrence and Kitson has been quite frankly, disgraceful. None of them have been given extended runs in the side and we have struggled with square pegs in round holes while these guys warm the bench just to satisfy Pulis' agendas and his inability to manage players with technical ability. Just you wait and see. At the end of the season, Kitson will be sold whilst the hapless Sidibé continues to lumber around contributing nothing to the team and the likes of Whitehead continue to concede free kick after free kick whilst constantly giving the ball away plodding up and down the flanks. Delap will continue to hurl in 20 throws whilst running himself into the ground to help balance up our woefully inept midfield that Pulis refuses to strengthen. Pulis has only signed 2 decent central midfielders in his whole career at Stoke - Whelan and Eustace. The rest of them, other than Delap are shite. None of them can retain the ball or pick a pass, let alone create a goalscoring opportunity, yet so called "fans" on here want 2 out of our 3 most creative midfielders "fucking off". Just what indication is there that he will suddenly change his ways? Well I tell you what, if we get rid of Tuncay, Lawrence, Beattie and Kitson then we WILL be going down. We are already the lowest scorers in the division and a transfer window where we bolster our huge ranks of central defenders and plodding midfielders will not rectify that problem. The press are already touting our star name as a flop because of the way he has been starved of support, creative freedom and game time due to Pulis and his approximate 1 in 3 goalscoring record this season is scoffed at. Get behind him and stop labelling him as a "mardy, stroppy bastard." GET IT INTO YOUR HEADS! Tuncay did not strop off on Saturday. He clapped the fans and went into the dressing room to prevent stiffening up. Ideally, all substituted players should do this and better practices should be implemented to keep players muscles healthy. How many times has Tuncay been injured this season? And then you have the likes of Fuller, Etherington and Shawcross who have found 100% fitness hard to come by this season and always seem to pick up injuries out of nothing. Shawcross has been out for almost 2 months now - it's ridiculous. Pulis will not be able to replace these guys with players that will actually sign for Stoke, fit into his "favoured" criteria and be good enough for the Premier League. We have finally got a quick, decent left winger and it has taken him his whole Stoke career to find one. If you think that we are going to get a striker who can hit the net, a quality right winger and central midfielder all in the same transfer window then you're sadly mistaken. The likes of Cole, Heskey, Bent, Rodallega, Parker will not sign for Stoke. Unless you start supporting these players that have produced the goods and have served us well, then we're going to have to endure more results like Bolton home and Hull away with shit performances like Wolves away because we will have sold our attacking players. If we weaken our attacking threat further then we're going to be in deep deep shit. SUPPORT THE TEAM INSTEAD OF CONSTANTLY BERATING OUR TECHNICALLY ABLE PLAYERS. Lawrence has been woeful this season, beats can't be arsed, if them two started every game we would have been relegated you fool. so you think tunny is bigger than our manager? you are a tool |
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Post by vestanpance on Apr 22, 2010 9:09:51 GMT
It's an interesting debate.
One of the things that tends to get lost in all this is the fact that Stoke City have accrued something like 15,000 "fairweather" fans since our promotion to the Premier League. One thing is for certain, if we continue along this current path of stifling creativity and atrocious football, they'll start to dwindle, as night follows day.
What fucked me off most about Bolton was that given the fact we are shit to watch (and we are, it's no good pretending otherwise) it would have been nice if Pulis had said "Go on lads, have a fucking go at them. The shackles are off and we are staying up, so go and give them something to cheer about." Instead, we get 10 men and a fucking long throw expert, boredom reigning supreme and the two most talented players on the pitch getting yanked off because Pulis does it every fucking week, regardless.
We're not delusional as a group of fans. We know there's no such thing as "the next level" for Stoke and european dreams are just that, dreams. What is not unreasonable however is a little bit of entertainment on a Saturday afternoon, perhaps mixed in with a few goals. Pulis cannot keep referring back to the lessons he learned with lower league players, not now. Yes Tuncay was petulant but he wants to play, and given he is technically the best player at the club this shouldn't be a problem but it is, it's almost like Pulis is constantly proving who is boss.
Yes, we've come a long way but put aside our unyielding gratitude and remember that football is supposed to be entertaiment as well. I reckon the bare minimum we deserve is when the hard toil is over that Pulis put the dogs of war in the kennels and actually allow us to enjoy being in the Premier League. Otherwise, what's the point?
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Post by alster on Apr 22, 2010 9:13:01 GMT
It would appear that the frustration of wanting more, albeit better nogga or a higher position is starting to creep in and pretty much nearly every player (minus Ryan and Matty) at some time on this board has been blamed. The manager is blamed on a more regular basis than most. This is no different to most supporter boards, including the top teams. I have no idea why some think we are unique in this - it was always the same and now hero status players under Waddo had numerous slagging off's as did the great man himself. On to our current status. I do get frustrated by key players and some management decisions, but I have to remind myself that we are only in our second year of a 5 year plan. We have come along way in such a short time (short in terms of 2nd year in the Prem). Our Manager - he has stated and restated a 5 year plan and 3 years whatever it takes just to establish us. TP is surrounded by some of the best wise old heads and although he takes the final decision, it is a collective input. To this end, they know what they are doing (most of the time). Sometimes he may not listen, but to constantly ignore Reid and Francis would see them out of the door, they dont need to hang around. I therefore assume/conclude that they know they are part of something special for this club going forward. Our Nogga For me some already look at least year through rose coloured glasses. Our style was blood and thunder, which I loved, but only tiny glimpses of what some call proper nogga. It was entertainment on a different level. I think we have evolved this year with some more nogga on the ground, but we will resort to hoof nogga - you just cant turn that off overnight. But for example, Villa away, we looked like a totally different team than the year before - yes we lost and shouldnt of, but last season we drew when frankly we got our arses smacked - that is nogga TP, Coates, Francis and Reid all know that they have to balance staying up with progression of more on the deck nogga to get more bums on seats. It has to become more appealing if SCFC want to expand to 35,000 (which they have indicated they want to- back to 5 years plan) as we have probably reached the max level of supporters who just want to see us in the Prem and some of those may wander away. If we can see this, they as sure as hell can. Players - everyone has their personal favourites and dislikes. This is shown in Joe's original post where he asks for support for 4 players and then lambasts the rest of the midfield. Others rate Delap/Woody /Whelan and others rate two but not the other. Bringing in Tuncay (regardless of who else wanted him or not) shows intent by the club. Sometimes these work and sometimes they dont - at every club. The problem with us is we have so few flair players and I cant believe he is playing for little old Stoke players that the spotlight and expectation is a lot higher. But if you look beyond the flouncing off, the good and bad games and look at his time at Boro - he has pretty much a similar record. Sometimes he was magical for them and sometimes the fans didnt even know if he was on the pitch. However he was one of several very good players and therefore the spotlight was reduced some what. Other fans of other clubs will gladly kick the boot in re the Tuncay situation because it is an easy target, but my Boro mate warned me what he is like and indeed he is. It is a team ethic - Tuncay was part of a Boro team with O'Neill, Johnson, Huth and some others so called stars and yet they went down and looked very poor. West Brom played carpet footie and went down. Stoke are building from the back and doing it very well. Now is hopefully the year they address the middle a bit more and the front (back to 5 year plan again). We all have our views on who should stay and who should go - but we dont know the state of mind of the players and their day in day out attitude. Kitson would of gone, but we couldnt off load and to be fair both parties appear to be making a go of it again. For the rest I agree with WD and Dozin re indvidual players, but really apart from Beattie, where it so obvious to anyone, what do we really know behind the scenes. Just look at Zamora, totally useless last season and a changed footballer this - it happens at every club. To say if Tuncay does leave we will be doomed and not attract similar flair players is not justified - but only time will tell. It is about money for players, but from a club perspective we have a very solid foundation, financially sound, great support and on a upward journey with an evolving style of nogga - you would hope some 'better' players would want to be part of that, just as Mr Begovic, who is one of the most exciting goalkeeper talents, did. Indeed add in the mix of the new training facility, the fans, the expansion plans, the finances and SCFC is a very solid club moving in the right direction when many (not all) around us are hopping on dodgy foundations to survive. Begovic saw the soild foundations and the vision and he turned Spurs down to be part of this - now surely that more than anything else points to a brighter future. Pulis has drove fans mad with negative, dour football throughout his managerial career. Don't expect this to change in 2,3,5 or even 10 years. |
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Post by dozintheseventees on Apr 22, 2010 9:16:29 GMT
alster: I agree that Wigan play better football than Stoke and I was at the DW when they ran rings around us in the first half this season. We then outplayed them in the second and should have won but for poor finishing. Your talk of what they've spent V Stoke is just utter crap though mate, with respect. They've been spending for seasons now in the top division whereas we've had to go from CCC to Premier League survivors in 2 seasons. Of course we've spent more this past two seasons but we've had a whole Premier League survival squad to assemble. Martinez took over an established Premier League club with a bunch of top class players at his disposal. Bruce found some absolute gems for that club and the players he left there were a better squad than Stoke's by some distance. The fact is they have (largely) better players than Stoke and yet sit 8 points below us. FACT!
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Post by OldStokie on Apr 22, 2010 9:18:23 GMT
It's an interesting debate. One of the things that tends to get lost in all this is the fact that Stoke City have accrued something like 15,000 "fairweather" fans since our promotion to the Premier League. One thing is for certain, if we continue along this current path of stifling creativity and atrocious football, they'll start to dwindle, as night follows day. What fucked me off most about Bolton was that given the fact we are shit to watch (and we are, it's no good pretending otherwise) it would have been nice if Pulis had said "Go on lads, have a fucking go at them. The shackles are off and we are staying up, so go and give them something to cheer about." Instead, we get 10 men and a fucking long throw expert, boredom reigning supreme and the two most talented players on the pitch getting yanked off because Pulis does it every fucking week, regardless. We're not delusional as a group of fans. We know there's no such thing as "the next level" for Stoke and european dreams are just that, dreams. What is not unreasonable however is a little bit of entertainment on a Saturday afternoon, perhaps mixed in with a few goals. Pulis cannot keep referring back to the lessons he learned with lower league players, not now. Yes Tuncay was petulant but he wants to play, and given he is technically the best player at the club this shouldn't be a problem but it is, it's almost like Pulis is constantly proving who is boss. Yes, we've come a long way but put aside our unyielding gratitude and remember that football is supposed to be entertaiment as well. I reckon the bare minimum we deserve is when the hard toil is over that Pulis put the dogs of war in the kennels and actually allow us to enjoy being in the Premier League. Otherwise, what's the point? Good post, VP. I would agree with much of what you say. However, I don't agree with this: I reckon Ric, Etherington, and a few of our defenders are technically better than him. OS. |
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Post by vestanpance on Apr 22, 2010 9:19:13 GMT
Here's a question though doz.
Would you rather have 38 points and play good football, or 43 points and, well, play like we do?
I don't reckon Wigan are all that by the way, it's more of an "end justifying the means" discussion.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Apr 22, 2010 9:19:43 GMT
Alster - I disagree. We have played better football in spurts this year and I think we will evolve further, but granted we will never be total carpet football - but then again who is? Chelsea are easier on the eye because they have better quality players, but they generally go 4,4,1,1, as do Villa
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Post by vestanpance on Apr 22, 2010 9:23:19 GMT
It's an interesting debate. One of the things that tends to get lost in all this is the fact that Stoke City have accrued something like 15,000 "fairweather" fans since our promotion to the Premier League. One thing is for certain, if we continue along this current path of stifling creativity and atrocious football, they'll start to dwindle, as night follows day. What fucked me off most about Bolton was that given the fact we are shit to watch (and we are, it's no good pretending otherwise) it would have been nice if Pulis had said "Go on lads, have a fucking go at them. The shackles are off and we are staying up, so go and give them something to cheer about." Instead, we get 10 men and a fucking long throw expert, boredom reigning supreme and the two most talented players on the pitch getting yanked off because Pulis does it every fucking week, regardless. We're not delusional as a group of fans. We know there's no such thing as "the next level" for Stoke and european dreams are just that, dreams. What is not unreasonable however is a little bit of entertainment on a Saturday afternoon, perhaps mixed in with a few goals. Pulis cannot keep referring back to the lessons he learned with lower league players, not now. Yes Tuncay was petulant but he wants to play, and given he is technically the best player at the club this shouldn't be a problem but it is, it's almost like Pulis is constantly proving who is boss. Yes, we've come a long way but put aside our unyielding gratitude and remember that football is supposed to be entertaiment as well. I reckon the bare minimum we deserve is when the hard toil is over that Pulis put the dogs of war in the kennels and actually allow us to enjoy being in the Premier League. Otherwise, what's the point? Good post, VP. I would agree with much of what you say. However, I don't agree with this: I reckon Ric, Etherington, and a few of our defenders are technically better than him. OS. Fair enough Mick, i've no argument with that, to each their own. I of course still belive i'm right  The point remains Kitson and Tuncay had the better of Bolton, and were inexplicably removed because Pulis does it every week. It wasn't warranted whatsoever and the fact that i can tell you now the substitutions for the Chelsea game (Kitson will come on for Sidibe c.69 minutes; Tuncay for Fuller c.75 minutes; Lawrence will come arounf the 81 minute mark) is not because i'm Mystic Meg, it's because he does it every fucking week. |
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 22, 2010 9:23:24 GMT
Regarding entertainment. Seeing as we were trapped in our own half already because Kitson was knackered and wasn't winning the ball in the air, on the hour mark I'd have actually played Fuller and Tuncay up front together. The ball normally gets stuck in our half when that happens, so what was there to lose? Still, the manager thought the best way to stay competitive was to leave on a player who was breathing out of his arse because he didn't have a target man he trusted to play for more than 5 minutes on the bench.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Apr 22, 2010 9:24:06 GMT
Vestan: Like I said mate, I have a lot of sympathy with those who want better football - so do I and I was brought up on it. There's no doubt that Wigan play more football than us but the question you pose is just completely hypothetical and meaningless because, who's to say we would have got 38 points by playing a more entertaining game? I happen to believe that (overall) Wigan have better players than us so WE probably wouldn't have got anywhere near those points playing their way. We do what suits us, hence the 43 points. Middlesbrough also had better players than us last season and played a more expansive game than us - whoops!
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Post by vestanpance on Apr 22, 2010 9:28:38 GMT
It was entirely hypothetical mate, and no grounding in fact.
I guess my point was that given the choice between a battling 45 points and a creative 42, i'd take the latter.
Mystical, perhaps he wouldn't have been so knackered if, just for a change like, we'd have played it into their feet for 90 minutes?
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Post by alster on Apr 22, 2010 9:34:57 GMT
Alster - I disagree. We have played better football in spurts this year and I think we will evolve further, but granted we will never be total carpet football - but then again who is? Chelsea are easier on the eye because they have better quality players, but they generally go 4,4,1,1, as do Villa I think you will find there is a huge difference in the offensive/defensive balance between teams like Chelsea, Villa and that of Stoke. They may play the formation but there the similarity ends. Its not simply an issue of quality its an issue of mindset and attacking intent. |
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Post by PickSCFC on Apr 22, 2010 9:35:55 GMT
yeah we really have struggled the past 2 seasons havnt we We've struggled scoring goals - that's why we're the lowest scorers in the league. we also have one of the best defensives in england |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2010 9:44:31 GMT
If Pulis wanted to get rid of the players in the opening post then so be it. Anyone who thinks he will not replace them is a fool. Pulis has improved Stoke each season since he has been back and I am sure he will have a plan for next season. If that plan involves those players leaving then so be it. I do hope Kitson stays as he is the best finisher at the club and it could be argued he has not had a fair go this season being dropped earlier in the season when he was arguably our best player.
People justyfying Tuncays behaviour are simply talking out of their arse. The second time he went down the tunnel he got in a taxi and did not even hang around to see what the result was. He is over-rated by some and his reputation is mainly based on a Hat trick against the shit years ago. He played every week in Middlesborough and did for them exactly what he has done for Stoke, the odd flash of brilliance but no end product. If he does leave it will be to Turkey or to a team lower down the league than us. There is a good reason he ended up at Stoke and that is because he is not good enough to play for the so called bigger teams.
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Post by antwilkes123 on Apr 22, 2010 9:50:14 GMT
Joe, I agree with some of what you say. But you contradict yourself when you say there is a group of players who haven't had an extended run in the team and without these next season we may get relegated. How come without these players having an extended run, we are comfortably mid-table?
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Post by sufolkstokie on Apr 22, 2010 9:53:09 GMT
Alster - I disagree. We have played better football in spurts this year and I think we will evolve further, but granted we will never be total carpet football - but then again who is? Chelsea are easier on the eye because they have better quality players, but they generally go 4,4,1,1, as do Villa I think you will find there is a huge difference in the offensive/defensive balance between teams like Chelsea, Villa and that of Stoke. They may play the formation but there the similarity ends. Its not simply an issue of quality its an issue of mindset and attacking intent. Disagree - quality has a lot to do with it. Having watched Villa and have a fair few Villa mates, they mainly play on the break, even at home. Take last nights game. They could of just of easily lost that game if Hull were not so poor in front of goal. Villa went one up and then couldnt put them to the sword. They could of just as easily lost like we did. IF we get a good passing/attack minded midfielder in, another striker and a pacy right winger, we will start to look a bit more like a Villa side (albeit less expensive players and tehrefore still a gap in quality) |
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Post by northstokie on Apr 22, 2010 10:09:25 GMT
There is a growing voice on this messageboard that wants the likes of Tuncay, Lawrence, Beattie and Kitson fucked off. Just what is the point of selling all our best players and retaining the likes of Sidibé and the vast collection of squad players that are thieving money from the club whilst doing nothing? The likes of Soares, Tonge, Griffin, Davies, Amdy Faye, Diao, Sonko have hardly made any appearances for us in the Prem and need getting rid of so we can improve our squad - not established players who we know can do the business in this league. Pulis' treatment of Tuncay, Lawrence and Kitson has been quite frankly, disgraceful. None of them have been given extended runs in the side and we have struggled with square pegs in round holes while these guys warm the bench just to satisfy Pulis' agendas and his inability to manage players with technical ability. Just you wait and see. At the end of the season, Kitson will be sold whilst the hapless Sidibé continues to lumber around contributing nothing to the team and the likes of Whitehead continue to concede free kick after free kick whilst constantly giving the ball away plodding up and down the flanks. Delap will continue to hurl in 20 throws whilst running himself into the ground to help balance up our woefully inept midfield that Pulis refuses to strengthen. Pulis has only signed 2 decent central midfielders in his whole career at Stoke - Whelan and Eustace. The rest of them, other than Delap are shite. None of them can retain the ball or pick a pass, let alone create a goalscoring opportunity, yet so called "fans" on here want 2 out of our 3 most creative midfielders "fucking off". Just what indication is there that he will suddenly change his ways? Well I tell you what, if we get rid of Tuncay, Lawrence, Beattie and Kitson then we WILL be going down. We are already the lowest scorers in the division and a transfer window where we bolster our huge ranks of central defenders and plodding midfielders will not rectify that problem. The press are already touting our star name as a flop because of the way he has been starved of support, creative freedom and game time due to Pulis and his approximate 1 in 3 goalscoring record this season is scoffed at. Get behind him and stop labelling him as a "mardy, stroppy bastard." GET IT INTO YOUR HEADS! Tuncay did not strop off on Saturday. He clapped the fans and went into the dressing room to prevent stiffening up. Ideally, all substituted players should do this and better practices should be implemented to keep players muscles healthy. How many times has Tuncay been injured this season? And then you have the likes of Fuller, Etherington and Shawcross who have found 100% fitness hard to come by this season and always seem to pick up injuries out of nothing. Shawcross has been out for almost 2 months now - it's ridiculous. Pulis will not be able to replace these guys with players that will actually sign for Stoke, fit into his "favoured" criteria and be good enough for the Premier League. We have finally got a quick, decent left winger and it has taken him his whole Stoke career to find one. If you think that we are going to get a striker who can hit the net, a quality right winger and central midfielder all in the same transfer window then you're sadly mistaken. The likes of Cole, Heskey, Bent, Rodallega, Parker will not sign for Stoke. Unless you start supporting these players that have produced the goods and have served us well, then we're going to have to endure more results like Bolton home and Hull away with shit performances like Wolves away because we will have sold our attacking players. If we weaken our attacking threat further then we're going to be in deep deep shit. SUPPORT THE TEAM INSTEAD OF CONSTANTLY BERATING OUR TECHNICALLY ABLE PLAYERS. Oh dear, what a load of utter shite from another PHW whose facts are as weak as his agenda. Let’s have a look at the most amusing parts.. Pulis' treatment of Tuncay, Lawrence and Kitson has been quite frankly, disgraceful. None of them have been given extended runs in the side and we have struggled with square pegs in round holes while these guys warm the bench just to satisfy Pulis' agendas and his inability to manage players with technical ability. - Everyone was crying out for Lawrence’s return when he was benched and they got their wish – he was crap, the Manager was right to leave him out, he has even had a few games of late and has been equally poor. Just you wait and see. At the end of the season, Kitson will be sold whilst the hapless Sidibé continues to lumber around contributing nothing to the team – did it escape you that his return and inclusion in the team contributed to our best unbeaten run in 30 yrs? Delap will continue to hurl in 20 throws - and double figures in assists Pulis has only signed 2 decent central midfielders in his whole career at Stoke - Whelan and Eustace. The rest of them, other than Delap are shite. – so 3 then? Get behind him and stop labelling him as a "mardy, stroppy bastard." Tuncay did not strop off on Saturday. He clapped the fans and went into the dressing room to prevent stiffening up – Did he tell you this, only I saw his bottom lip come out, a shake of the head, a deliberate shaking of the refs hand then him turning his back on the manager and stropping off for the THIRD time this season. Christ, I’m glad you’re not in charge celebrating and rewarding such petulance and disrespect. The boos by THOUSANDS just show that people have had enough. The fact is he has been living off 3 goals scored yrs ago and in this country has only ever got a team relegated by being given this ‘game time’ you keep going on about. Where were all these great clubs when we signed him then? Shawcross has been out for almost 2 months now - it's ridiculous – You’re blaming Shawcross for sitting on a bench and not having an early bath? Unless you start supporting these players that have produced the goods and have served us well, then we're going to have to endure more results like Bolton home and Hull away with shit performances like Wolves away because we will have sold our attacking players – You think Tuncay has produced the goods – two glaring sitters when he has been given a decent run, as for serving us well he has shown nothing but disrespect, it’s clear the players agree with Pulis so shall we start on them too or does that not fit as well with your anti Pulis agenda? Many players go straight into the dressing room after being substituted. In fact, there was one game at the brit against Wolves when one of their players went straight off the pitch and into the dressing room during the match and came back on again – So ONE player then….and he came back out - hahaha p.s. Doz – great post |
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