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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 21:06:52 GMT
The thing to watch is the council's level of debt. Warrington will soon be £2 billion in hock and it won't take much to go wrong for the town to unravel. As far as I can tell, they still only have one taker for Time Square, the Redwood thing has the chance to fall apart and they are taking other massive gambles that could go wrong in the next 20 to 25 years. I know they argue they'll still have the assets even if they are making losses but those are only worth as much as somebody will pay for them. They're taking a huge punt. I work for a company who've just left The Base near Warrington Central. It's like the Marie Celeste in there. They're obviously filling it with the council's 'partners'.
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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 20:55:59 GMT
Anyway, the important thing will be that ukyestony might be around to watch Grappenhall turn into Bewsey and the UK to suffer for years because of Brexit. To get this back on track, he'd probably be just as unhappy if we win our next game and Nathan Jones turns the club around and we forget all about the past 27 games as quickly as we did Nottingham Forest 6, Stoke 0 in 2003.
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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 20:52:59 GMT
For shopping it is. The shopping centre is really quite good and the market is excellent. We’re getting a cinema too !!! Only about 20 years too late but there we go. I used to love a trip up Hanley when I was a kid - visiting Lewis’s etc. I best stick with my memories I guess. The thing to watch is the council's level of debt. Warrington will soon be £2 billion in hock and it won't take much to go wrong for the town to unravel. As far as I can tell, they still only have one taker for Time Square, the Redwood thing has the chance to fall apart and they are taking other massive gambles that could go wrong in the next 20 to 25 years. I know they argue they'll still have the assets even if they are making losses but those are only worth as much as somebody will pay for them. They're taking a huge punt.
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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 20:45:06 GMT
From what I can tell most of them would cheerfully see the South turned into Dallam, never mind Birchwood or - God forbid - Chapelford 'Village'. The problem is that some councillors share the same attitude. Witness that tool Brian Maher wave through the Stobart logistics centre on green belt without knowing where it even was. Then you see the plans for Appleton including the unbelievably massive logistics hub on the M6/M56 junction and the provision of a shopping centre a la Birchwood as well as thousands of houses and you just know what's coming. My ex-wife lives in Latchford and her house is worthless while there are still plans to build a dual carriageway over the top of the Transpennine Trail. Take my word for it, they are about to fuck the whole place up. I was going to ask if you were the person who comments on the Warrington Guardian site but from your level of knowledge I can see you are. Is the future that bad they’ve driven you away?? It's not why I left and I no longer go by greyman on The Guardian website.
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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 20:39:23 GMT
Not for long once the council gets its local plan through. Then it will be no different to Birchwood. Please don’t, I’ve been here on and off for 50 years and the place is already unrecognisable from my youth. Got to hope the good citizens of the north help us get shot of this council one way or another. From what I can tell most of them would cheerfully see the South turned into Dallam, never mind Birchwood or - God forbid - Chapelford 'Village'. The problem is that some councillors share the same attitude. Witness that tool Brian Maher wave through the Stobart logistics centre on green belt without knowing where it even was. Then you see the plans for Appleton including the unbelievably massive logistics hub on the M6/M56 junction and the provision of a shopping centre a la Birchwood as well as thousands of houses and you just know what's coming. My ex-wife lives in Latchford and her house is worthless while there are still plans to build a dual carriageway over the top of the Transpennine Trail. Take my word for it, they are about to fuck the whole place up.
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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 20:27:30 GMT
Not wishing to get involved in this particular shoot up but can I just say Warrington (south of the Bridge) is and always has been Cheshire and is as nice a part of the county as you can find. It’s well leafy and Stockton Heaths got more places to eat than any of your ‘Golden Triangle’ dumps these days !!!!! So there. Not for long once the council gets its local plan through. Then it will be no different to Birchwood. I lived in Stockton Heath and Appleton for 20 years. It's very nice for now but I wouldn't compare it to the Golden Triangle.
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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 20:26:00 GMT
I only mention it when provoked by people talking shyte on this message board horlicks drunk and tablets taken nite nite I think somebody must have stolen his login. He definitely went to bed before and won't have been reading anything from people who think he's the sort of person who thinks saying 'North Cheshire' instead of Warrington will impress others. No way is he reading this.
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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 20:20:03 GMT
well Im past 1000 games or so since 1970 - ( thats 48 years) just maybe, that qualifies ? You need to mention that 1,000 games since 1970 a few more times. Who knows, you might impress somebody. You're wasting your time. He's absolutely, definitely gone to bed and won't be reading this wondering whether to respond or not.
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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 20:15:43 GMT
and the point of this is ? bored now --- nite nite ...to make you look like the pompous Warrington resident know-nothing bore you are. North Cheshire?
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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 20:11:20 GMT
Well that makes as much sense as claiming living in 'North Cheshire' is some massive trek to get to games. I assume you mean Warrington, which is four junctions of the M6. Interesting definition of 'hound relentlessly' too. It appears to mean sit on your arse then whine on a messageboard about games you haven't even seen. Jones must be shitting himself at your hounding. As well as claiming that Warrington is "leafy", snigger ... 😁 As a former resident of Stockton Heath and Appleton, I can confirm that 'leafy' with regards to Warrington means 'not a shithole like Bewsey, Dallam or Orford'.
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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 20:09:32 GMT
yes quite a long way really --bout an 80 mile round trip - whats your beef ? Im not looking for medals or to score points are you ? I do that trip twice a week. It's a doddle. So, yeah I'll take a medal for driving for an hour and a half to go to a game. BTW, you describing Warrington as 'North Cheshire' is a bit of a giveaway. Not exactly Alderley Edge, is it?
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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 20:04:15 GMT
it is indeed - and its precisely why I wont let this drop they need hounding relentlessl;y until, something actually changes for the better Well that makes as much sense as claiming living in 'North Cheshire' is some massive trek to get to games. I assume you mean Warrington, which is four junctions of the M6. Interesting definition of 'hound relentlessly' too. It appears to mean sit on your arse then whine on a messageboard about games you haven't even seen. Jones must be shitting himself at your hounding.
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Post by greyman on Sept 17, 2019 19:59:22 GMT
another saying or two 'Chance favours the prepared mind' ( under siege two) ( and Louis Pasteur) and as regards LUCK some golfer said 'you know its strange , the more I practice - the luckier I get' Wasn't that the same golfer who said 'the more games I attend, the more I know what I'm talking about'?
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Post by greyman on Sept 16, 2019 11:41:47 GMT
It's not as complicated as people are making it. The performance of the team is 100 percent Jones' RESPONSIBILITY, but the FAULT lies with a number of people throughout the club. How you carve that up is the question and the truth is that nobody really knows, not even the people with all the facts at their disposal.
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Post by greyman on Aug 29, 2019 7:27:07 GMT
We know bielsa analyses the opposition to death but is there any evidence Jones does? The reason I pose this question is to put a spanner in the way Leeds play you must get in and around Forshaw. He’s dictated the play now in two and a half games without us putting in a meaningful tackle on him You must get 'in Forshaw'? Drastic times.
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Post by greyman on Aug 26, 2019 8:43:03 GMT
The point is that some people have completely rewritten history. You see it all the time, including on here, which is amazing. No one has to rewrite history. It's all there to those to see. Some people don't like. So it goes. Pulis leaving wasn't the beginning of the end, Hughes being his successor - in the long term - probably was. QED
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Post by greyman on Aug 26, 2019 7:55:34 GMT
That's now the narrative for some people, that it immediately went to shit after Pulis. Excusable to some degree for people with little interest or knowledge but baffling to hear it come from our own supporters. He wasn’t saying it was shit since Pulis left, he was saying Stoke had lost their identity since he left. You know, that identity which you either loved or hated, and Wenger hated. The point is that some people have completely rewritten history. You see it all the time, including on here, which is amazing.
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Post by greyman on Aug 26, 2019 7:23:09 GMT
Truthful journalism. The whole article. The truth hurts. It’s spot on on the whole (especially the bit about needing a Webber type with some vision) but that bit that it’s all been shit since Pulis left patently isn’t. That's now the narrative for some people, that it immediately went to shit after Pulis. Excusable to some degree for people with little interest or knowledge but baffling to hear it come from our own supporters.
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Post by greyman on Aug 26, 2019 7:19:02 GMT
Percy article in the Telegraph, behind a paywall though. There must be some private moments, in times of introspection, when Nathan Jones wonders whether quitting Luton for Stoke was a good career move after all. Shortly before his appointment at the bet365 Stadium Jones had won ten matches out of 11 in League One, with his reputation as a shrewd, progressive young manager on the rise. His move to Stoke in January was a reward for those successive promotions, a deserved recognition for his diligent work in the lower leagues and journey up the ladder from his first steps coaching at Yeovil. Seven months later, Jones finds himself bottom of the Championship with the patience of supporters starting to wear thin. Some fans want him sacked, while others are demanding to know whether Diamond Formations Are Forever There is no suggestion at this point that Jones is in danger, despite a run of three wins in 25 league games, but these are desperately worrying times for the Coates family. Jones was the club’s third manager in a year when he was appointed and the latest one struck by the malaise which seems to run deep. Remember, this is a club which finished ninth in the Premier League for the third year running in 2016 under Mark Hughes. Where has it all gone so wrong? How has it been allowed to get to this? Why are so many experienced players, many signed at high cost, finding it so difficult to perform? It is like Superman’s struggles with Kryptonite when many of these players pull on the Stoke jersey. When they leave, their powers seem to return. Benik Afobe, a £12 million signing, already has three goals on loan at Bristol City, while Erik Pieters - previously a member of Stoke’s ‘bomb squad’ - is now at Burnley with his new team-mates finding it inexplicable that he was jettisoned by a Championship club. And then there are the continuing tales of poor discipline and mutiny. These stories were sadly rife during Stoke’s relegation campaign and continued last season, too. One player allegedly refused to take part in a warm-down session after a game as he had a flight to catch. Another player, out of the first-team picture, told Gary Rowett to his face during talks over his future that he was happy to stick around as he was convinced the manager would soon be sacked. One other racked up fines over the season of over £100,000. These antics bred resentment in the dressing room - see recent comments from Glen Johnson, Charlie Adam and Peter Crouch - and served to spread the apathy. Recruitment, plus the departures of experienced professionals such as Jon Walters, Glenn Whelan and Phil Bardsley, were held up as huge mitigating factors. Jones’s predecessor, Rowett, identified some of these issues quickly but was booted out after one too many darts at the fans. Rowett lost only three league games in his last 17 - which almost seems Guardiolaesque in these troubled times - but he was sacked due to perceived poor results for a team with promotion ambitions, a lack of entertainment and a failure to get his expensively assembled squad to gel. Was he harshly treated? Possibly, yes. Behind the scenes it is understood he was calling out how he saw the problems and challenging the club’s hierarchy to change things. Maybe he was a convenient patsy, but it’s history now and hindsight can be wonderful. The focus must now be on Jones, and how he extricates himself from this mess. After the short reigns of Paul Lambert and Rowett, he will surely be given time. In his defence, Jones insists the atmosphere and working environment is now far better than when he came in. Stoke are also battling to offload the remaining members of the ‘bomb squad’ (Giannelli Imbula, Kevin Wimmer, Moritz Bauer, Mame Biram Diouf and Bruno Martins Indi) before the European deadline on September 2. Jones will soon be joined by a former colleague, Phil Chapple, who is coming in as a director of football/recruitment chief, which suggests backing from the board remains. There is unquestionably a good manager there - talk to anyone who witnessed his teams at Luton - who has maybe lost his way a bit. The recruitment over the summer was sensible and steady, largely relying on no-frills signings who know the league. Newcastle striker Dwight Gayle would have been the dream final signing, but the EFL’s new rules on spending made it incredibly difficult to pull off. Jones needs a win from somewhere, anywhere, and quickly. Late last season he insisted he would get it right, and it is only five games in. There are many good characters and players in the squad, who now need to step up. It cannot always be the manager's fault. The board must also show leadership and authority. The Coates family, namely chairman Peter and his son John, will be in turmoil over this - fans could questions some of their decisions, but never their backing or commitment. They are lifelong fans and will remember the dark days of the early 90s, when Stoke last operated in the third tier. They will know, more than anybody, that a return to that division would be a disaster. At the moment, it is all a bit of a mess. Or, to pinch a quote from the Coen brothers's film No Country For Old Men, "if it ain't, it'll do 'til the mess gets here."
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Post by greyman on Aug 26, 2019 5:57:58 GMT
Nathan Jones faces challenge to restore Stoke City’s sense of identity
The Journeyman visits . . . Stoke City
More than 20 minutes were still left on the clock when Leeds United’s gleeful travelling support began to inquire if a fire drill had been set off inside the Bet365 Stadium. Patrick Bamford had just made it 3-0 to cap a scintillating display from the Sky Bet Championship leaders and the Stoke City fans had seen enough.
By the time the final whistle was blown, leaving Stoke languishing at the foot of the table, the home stands were all but empty. Nathan Jones, nevertheless, strode on to the pitch to applaud the smattering who remained, then marched defiantly down the tunnel with the away fans’ taunt of “you’re getting sacked in the morning” ringing in his ears. “We’re a shoulda woulda coulda team at the minute,” Jones said. “We’re all underachieving. One way or another, that won’t continue.”
Five games in: too soon to panic? One would certainly hope so. The 46-year-old former Luton Town manager arrived in January to much goodwill but won only three games as Stoke laboured to a 16th-place finish. And after ten new signings and a summer to hone his preferred 4-4-2 diamond formation, evidence of the exciting, dynamic, football that Jones’s Luton team became known for has been fleeting.
Despite a convincing defeat by Preston in mid-week, EFL analysts pointed to encouraging underlying numbers. After all, it is hard to legislate for Jack Butland, the Stoke goalkeeper who could quite easily be playing in the Premier League and part of Gareth Southgate’s England squad, conceding from 55 per cent of all the shots on target that he has faced. Expected goals tables even had Stoke positioned in the play-offs.
As Gary Rowett found to his cost last season, of course, Stoke are still suffering a debilitating hangover from their relegation from the Premier League in 2018. Their dealings in the transfer-market have been nothing short of catastrophic. Players such as Kevin Wimmer, Giannelli Imbula, Moritz Bauer, Badou Ndiaye and Mame Diouf, who cost a combined £60 million, are training with the club’s under-23s or cannot find a place in Jones’s match-day squad.
After Rowett’s disastrous £50 million splurge last summer Jones’s signings included five free transfers and three loans from the Premier League. Benik Afobe, meanwhile, is scoring goals on loan at Bristol City a year after moving to the Bet365 from Wolves for £12 million. Sam Vokes, a £7 million arrival from Burnley in January, cannot find a place on the bench. Ryan Woods, Tom Ince, Danny Bath, James McClean and Sam Clucas cost a combined £30 million and have rarely lived up to their price tags.
Quite how the most expensively assembled squad in the Championship is reliant on Lee Gregory, a free from Millwall, and Scott Hogan, on loan from Aston Villa, to lead the line up front is a mystery. And it said much about Stoke, too, that on Saturday, when Jones made six changes to his starting XI, the captain’s armband was given to Nathan Collins, an 18-year-old centre half making his third league start.
The club’s calamitous dealings have largely been laid at the door of Tony Scholes, the chief executive, and Mark Cartwright, the technical director who, it was announced last month, is leaving in September. His successor will be expected to forage for bargains under a shadow of EFL profit and sustainability rules. But could the appointment not be seen as an opportunity to exhibit some vision and intelligence, in much the same way Norwich City, for example, did with the appointment of Stuart Webber? To imbue a sense of identity, something Stoke have been largely devoid of since the days of Tony Pulis?
All in all, though, it is enough to make you wonder whether Jones may come to regret leaving the upwardly mobile Luton for the Potteries. In taking Luton from League Two to the brink of the Championship, and scoring 301 goals in 170 games in the process, Jones had come to be regarded as one of the brightest young coaches outside the Premier League.
He is not short of self-belief. The chance to prove yourself at a bigger club, in a higher division, is hard to resist, too — as is the lure of a fatter pay packet. But the list of lower league managers who have successfully negotiated the step up to the Championship in recent years is not exactly lengthy.
Paul Hurst, the most recent to try, lasted 14 Championship games at Ipswich Town, another club with long-standing issues, who were relegated, last season. He is now in charge of Scunthorpe United who are bottom League Two.
It is a very different task managing a club littered with overpaid, underperforming players and their concomitant egos. “It’s a big challenge,” Jones said. “We’ve had to change a lot, the dynamic, the environment. We’ve made massive strides with that, but we’re still losing games. That has to change.
“I came from a side, at the level below, that did exactly what Leeds do to teams. They’re relentless, absolutely relentless. That’s a mentality. At the minute, we’re not at that level.
“I’ve had three years of very good success. This is my first foray into the bottom three. I don’t like it. I don’t want to stay here. But this is when you see how good managers can be. It’s how you show your character, your mettle, how you come through these times. As long as the players are with you, then you can come through it.”
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Post by greyman on Aug 25, 2019 7:33:36 GMT
Yep. Grow up. Your not 5 they are just words. Did you walk out in outrage when the whole away end sang " he's full of worms, he's full of worms, he's full of, Dodis full of worms" at Fulham in 97 or when the whole ground regaled us with the Munich songs anytime we played United. No. As i say. Dicks then. Dicks now. Get over it. I thought it was unpleasant, unnecessary and reflected poorly on us on all counts. Just ‘words’ can do a lot of damage to people. It’s possible to take the piss and indulge in schadenfreude without being a complete fuckwit. It’s only football. Exactly this. There are a bunch of pinheads at the club and it's up to the club to deal with them. That means proper stewarding of morons. We all know who they are and where they sit. The club should too. I've seen the footage. These are the same idiots who sing songs about the IRA and other crap during games. Right under the noses of the police up there. Get them out of the club.
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Post by greyman on Aug 21, 2019 12:00:38 GMT
While sitting here contemplating the meaning of life, it struck me that any situation, success or failure, is temporary in the grand scheme of things. In 100 years, will anyone even have an inkling who Mark Hughes was either as a player or manager. To illustrate the point, without using the internet, can anyone name the Huddersfield Town manager who led them to complete domination of English Football from 1923-1926? or the Aston Villa Manager or a star player who led them to 5 championships in 7 years in the 1890's? So here is my question would you swap Stoke's Historical Record (1 League Cup, 1 FA Cup RU) and current position/team/finances/outlook for say Sunderland's Historical Record (6 League Champs, 5 RU, 2 FA Cups, 2 RU, 2 League Cup RU, 2 Charity Shields, 1 RU) and their current position /team/finances/outlook? Of course assume that location, strip, ethos, etc stays the same (In other words it's still STOKE CITY, just our record and current situation looks different. Herbert Chapman. It's a really well known fact. People will still know all this stuff in a hundred years time, but the interest in it will just be more parochial. Tradition and history always get absorbed into the club's DNA. The people and all the parts may change but the thing is the same. It's the Ship of Theseus Paradox. Trigger's broom. It's the bit Celtic fans miss about the new Rangers. If Bury go out of business, a new incarnation with the same fans would still be Bury.
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Post by greyman on Aug 14, 2019 12:23:53 GMT
Quite surprised by the way his career has gone since signing for Seville to be honest, seems a waste that he’s ended up in Turkey after showing so much promise..... Yeah, that World Cup winners medal and regular Champions League football will never make up for leaving us.
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Post by greyman on Aug 14, 2019 6:12:03 GMT
7Didn’t like the look of the line up before the game but Can’t complain, sounded like we dominated, particularly in the first half. Not getting carried away, Wigan made 10 changes so I don’t know how to gage how good a win this was,... we might have just beat Wigan reserves ? 🤔
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Bauer
Aug 13, 2019 16:57:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by greyman on Aug 13, 2019 16:57:37 GMT
I couldn't give a flying what happens with ze builder to be perfectly frank. People seem to be split on whether or not he can defend. My view is that he's positionally naïve and can be exploited in the same way that Jimmy Mac can. But I also think he's terrible offensively. Someone should trawl the archives to find a goal or assist for the bloke. I made my mind up on his debut at Old Trafford when, for all his enthusiasm, if they'd opened the gates during the game he'd still be pounding the streets of Salford now. Bauer means farmer
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Post by greyman on Aug 6, 2019 11:30:56 GMT
Why we have never tried playing him as a second striker is beyond me. He could play alongside Vokes or Afobe, or even Campbell in time with Powell sitting in there just behind but no, it wasn't to be. I just don't think Rowett or Jones are the type to play a Catalan fancy dan, because that's obviously what they thought of him. There's a spectacular amount of history being rewritten all over social media about him right now. Most of it is based on 'never the same after his injury', even though the facts show he had his best season for us after his injury and it was Lesley's decision to drop him to the bench that coincided with his form falling away. There's a story in all of this, maybe about his mental state, motivation or ability to fit into the system or squad, but it certainly isn't the absolute bullshit being spread by people who are immune to facts.
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Post by greyman on Aug 5, 2019 12:53:31 GMT
We should be, didn't you see our defence get walked through on Saturday? Yes for the second goal but and it's a big but were was our CDM he strolled through and an 18yr old lad sold himself short. Nobody at all challenged him that's Cousins role is it not.CB is not an issue CDM is atm. If you watch it back, it's also Mr Shushy that has left Eze alone in yards and yards of space. Strangely enough, after strolling around aimlessly in midfield while they score, he decided not to shush the crowd again.
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Post by greyman on Aug 3, 2019 6:30:24 GMT
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Post by greyman on Jul 29, 2019 15:45:19 GMT
It's only idiots like you doing the speculating though. We all know it's bad and that it will take time for those treating him to know exactly what the details and consequences are. The club are perfectly right not to be matching this messageboard for wild guesses and bullshit. The thread is a out Ryan but I can’t help point out your calling a blow an idiot namely me for speculating when 1 i aren’t and haven’t and won’t 2 am encouraging exactly the opposite "the club need to endorse it formally" Do they? Why? How is you demanding the club make statements exactly the opposite of encouraging speculation? You're not just an idiot for demanding statements from the club about something they may not yet know. There are lots of reasons for calling you an idiot.
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Post by greyman on Jul 29, 2019 13:34:48 GMT
Say “we will not know more until further tests are not then”? Just a thought? Spot on as we’ve Seen today vacuums leave space for speculation to fill , what NJ actually said was spot on but club need to endorse it formally It's only idiots like you doing the speculating though. We all know it's bad and that it will take time for those treating him to know exactly what the details and consequences are. The club are perfectly right not to be matching this messageboard for wild guesses and bullshit.
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