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Post by GoBoks on Aug 20, 2019 22:50:25 GMT
While sitting here contemplating the meaning of life, it struck me that any situation, success or failure, is temporary in the grand scheme of things.
In 100 years, will anyone even have an inkling who Mark Hughes was either as a player or manager. To illustrate the point, without using the internet, can anyone name the Huddersfield Town manager who led them to complete domination of English Football from 1923-1926? or the Aston Villa Manager or a star player who led them to 5 championships in 7 years in the 1890's?
So here is my question would you swap Stoke's Historical Record (1 League Cup, 1 FA Cup RU) and current position/team/finances/outlook for say Sunderland's Historical Record (6 League Champs, 5 RU, 2 FA Cups, 2 RU, 2 League Cup RU, 2 Charity Shields, 1 RU) and their current position /team/finances/outlook? Of course assume that location, strip, ethos, etc stays the same (In other words it's still STOKE CITY, just our record and current situation looks different.
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Post by Billy the kid on Aug 20, 2019 22:52:35 GMT
No, why would anyone want to change a clubs heritage?
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Post by kustokie on Aug 20, 2019 22:59:31 GMT
No. I always say you can change your house, car, country and wife (I have done them all), but you can’t change your team. It’s with you for life, a bit like herpes.
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Post by ParaPsych on Aug 20, 2019 22:59:51 GMT
Well this is not that simple to answer because surely being so terribly wank all the time is such a huge part of who we are?
It does however remind me of the debates on here when people asked would you take winning the FA Cup if it came along with relegation.
Idiots said no, because they thought sitting mid-table in the Premier league was somehow important and for some stupid reason thought it would continue forever or turn into something huge.
Sensible people said yes, because obviously we'll get relegated anyway, we've never won the damn thing, and glory is what it should be about anyway. Memories like that last an eternity one way or another, through shared memories and record books. It's those stories that are remembered and stories that mean something down the generations. Not mid-table finishes.
As it happens we won fuck all and got relegated anyway.
Fucking go us.
Anyway, I bet a fair few folk in Huddersfield know the bloke you ask about, and maybe that's enough?
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Post by Gods on Aug 20, 2019 23:00:57 GMT
I wouldn't know!
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Post by GoBoks on Aug 20, 2019 23:08:46 GMT
Well this is not that simple to answer because surely being so terribly wank all the time is such a huge part of who we are? It does however remind me of the debates were that were when people asked would you take winning the FA Cup if it came along with relegation. Idiots said no, because they thought sitting mid-table in the Premier league was somehow important and for some stupid reason thought it would continue forever or turn into something huge. Sensible people said yes, because obviously we'll get relegated anyway, we've never won the damn thing, and glory is what it should be about anyway. Memories like that last an eternity one way or another, through shared memories and record books. It's those stories that are remembered and stories that mean something down the generations. Not mid-table finishes. As it happens we won fuck all and got relegated anyway. Fucking go us. Anyway, I bet a fair few folk in Huddersfield know the bloke you ask about, and maybe that's enough? I've always maintained that being the greatest team the world has ever seen as wank as we are, makes the small successes all the more enjoyable. Think how crappy the past few seasons must have been for Manu Supporters. Every game they play must be more "please don't let us lose" rather than the absolute delight that comes with beating Everton 4-3 for example. They'd have to win the treble to experience the euphoria we get from beating Man City 2-0! If we had a reasonable record of success, I think it would make the doldrums all the more difficult to stomache. Hmmm, I'm starting to feel sorry for Sunderland fans!  |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 21, 2019 0:59:29 GMT
While sitting here contemplating the meaning of life, it struck me that any situation, success or failure, is temporary in the grand scheme of things. In 100 years, will anyone even have an inkling who Mark Hughes was either as a player or manager. To illustrate the point, without using the internet, can anyone name the Huddersfield Town manager who led them to complete domination of English Football from 1923-1926? or the Aston Villa Manager or a star player who led them to 5 championships in 7 years in the 1890's? So here is my question would you swap Stoke's Historical Record (1 League Cup, 1 FA Cup RU) and current position/team/finances/outlook for say Sunderland's Historical Record (6 League Champs, 5 RU, 2 FA Cups, 2 RU, 2 League Cup RU, 2 Charity Shields, 1 RU) and their current position /team/finances/outlook? Of course assume that location, strip, ethos, etc stays the same (In other words it's still STOKE CITY, just our record and current situation looks different. Herbert Chapman is largely responsible for most tactical innovation in England in the 20th century. I think most decently versed football fans would have a inkling as to who he is at the very least. Most of the problem with the era you describe is lack of visual documentation. We don’t know what Matthias Sindelaar played like or Pepi Bican, but the videos we have of the post 70s greats should see their image and records persist in the common memory well into the future. |
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Post by march4 on Aug 21, 2019 2:09:54 GMT
Surely every football supporter knows about Herbert Chapman.
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Post by Northy on Aug 21, 2019 4:35:49 GMT
Surely every football supporter knows about Herbert Chapman. Apart from some posting on the Bury thread who couldn't care about other clubs. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 21, 2019 5:34:18 GMT
At Stoke success is fleeting.
Failure is permanent.
😞
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Post by Veritas on Aug 21, 2019 6:08:48 GMT
You have forgotten about the Autoglass and Watney's cup success!
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Post by wuzza on Aug 21, 2019 6:26:29 GMT
If you asked a current supporter of Bury FC wether they are relaxing safe in the knowledge of their FA Cup successes of the early 20th century or worrying to death wether they still have a club next week it probably puts it in some context.
Sad though to reflect that when football was still a genuine competition in this country we still managed to make a complete mess of having some very talented teams.
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Post by andystokey on Aug 21, 2019 6:59:27 GMT
What happens on the pitch has always only been one small part of supporting my football team.
Seeing my old mates from school, having a beer, laughing about completely inane drivel and being part of something bigger is what it's about. Would I ever have got on a plane and visited Kiev without Stoke? probably not. I certainly wouldn't have been chased through the streets of Grimsby or belted out Delilah at the FACup final while another team lifted the trophy after we lost. Or played football in a muddy field from morning until it went dark convinced I was Jimmy Greenhoff. Or enjoy the unbearable excitement I had on the day of my first match when the old man walked me down to the Vic to feel it for myself.
It's been imprinted on my days for most of my life a constant reminder of my upbringing, my home and my place in the world. I have no idea what sucess has to do with it. It's something much bigger that binds me to a group of like minded people that stretches across more than 150 years. On the days its shit its truly awful. On the days it is beautiful it's truly memorable sometimes on the pitch, sometimes in the crowd. But success doesn't seem to have much to do with it.
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Post by stokeson on Aug 21, 2019 10:11:44 GMT
Theres no success like failure and failures no success at all................
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 10:13:57 GMT
Apart from the 6 v 1 win against Liverpool (which I still thought we'd lose with 10 minutes to go !) I had way more fun going to away days, meeting up with mates and visiting shite grounds in the old 3rd division. The football was dire but the the day was great, as was the hangover the following morning.
I guess its all relative
GD
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Post by riverman on Aug 21, 2019 10:27:41 GMT
What happens on the pitch has always only been one small part of supporting my football team. Seeing my old mates from school, having a beer, laughing about completely inane drivel and being part of something bigger is what it's about. Would I ever have got on a plane and visited Kiev without Stoke? probably not. I certainly wouldn't have been chased through the streets of Grimsby or belted out Delilah at the FACup final while another team lifted the trophy after we lost. Or played football in a muddy field from morning until it went dark convinced I was Jimmy Greenhoff. Or enjoy the unbearable excitement I had on the day of my first match when the old man walked me down to the Vic to feel it for myself. It's been imprinted on my days for most of my life a constant reminder of my upbringing, my home and my place in the world. I have no idea what sucess has to do with it. It's something much bigger that binds me to a group of like minded people that stretches across more than 150 years. On the days its shit its truly awful. On the days it is beautiful it's truly memorable sometimes on the pitch, sometimes in the crowd. But success doesn't seem to have much to do with it. This,in a nut shell, is what I've tried to put across to every glory hunting toss pot I've ever had the misfortune to engage with. Getting pissed in the pub with fellow Stokies after a fleeting bit of glory is one of life's great joys. Something they'll never experience or understand. |
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 21, 2019 11:55:51 GMT
There's nothing more Stokie than wallowing in abject failure.
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Post by greyman on Aug 21, 2019 12:00:38 GMT
While sitting here contemplating the meaning of life, it struck me that any situation, success or failure, is temporary in the grand scheme of things. In 100 years, will anyone even have an inkling who Mark Hughes was either as a player or manager. To illustrate the point, without using the internet, can anyone name the Huddersfield Town manager who led them to complete domination of English Football from 1923-1926? or the Aston Villa Manager or a star player who led them to 5 championships in 7 years in the 1890's? So here is my question would you swap Stoke's Historical Record (1 League Cup, 1 FA Cup RU) and current position/team/finances/outlook for say Sunderland's Historical Record (6 League Champs, 5 RU, 2 FA Cups, 2 RU, 2 League Cup RU, 2 Charity Shields, 1 RU) and their current position /team/finances/outlook? Of course assume that location, strip, ethos, etc stays the same (In other words it's still STOKE CITY, just our record and current situation looks different. Herbert Chapman. It's a really well known fact. People will still know all this stuff in a hundred years time, but the interest in it will just be more parochial. Tradition and history always get absorbed into the club's DNA. The people and all the parts may change but the thing is the same. It's the Ship of Theseus Paradox. Trigger's broom. It's the bit Celtic fans miss about the new Rangers. If Bury go out of business, a new incarnation with the same fans would still be Bury. |
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 21, 2019 12:06:17 GMT
I believe the whole success or failure thing misses the point.
As some have alluded to, supporting Stoke City is a way of life. It's the only thing that stays constant whether you are 7 or 97.
Just like life, the successes are great and the failures are lousy. Just like life, it's mostly mediocrity punctuated by rare moments of great joy and miserable disappointment. Good times and bad times. And just like life, it goes on. At least for a while. There's another game on saturday, next season will be better, this manager will improve things, whatever it is.
We should all just enjoy it and celebrate it. This message board unites us in our common interest and gives us a vehicle to share the good times, express our hopes and fears and moan about the bad times.
Simple, relatively pointless and fun. As they say in the modern vernacular, it is what it is.
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Post by whatsashig on Aug 21, 2019 12:18:12 GMT
Bugger, forget his, name but went on to manage the arse with the same if not more success
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Post by stokefc on Aug 21, 2019 12:25:03 GMT
Following Stoke is like a box of chocolates, you never know what...scratch that we all know what we're gonna get
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 21, 2019 12:27:16 GMT
There's nothing more Stokie than wallowing in abject failure. Yes there is - constantly winging that the real team on the pitch isn't matching up to the glorious imaginary one running around in your head. Or at least it's the MO of the Stokie who supports Stoke City FC (est 2008 - disbanded 2018) and who has a problem dealing with not being in Kansas anymore. Down Toto. |
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Post by dreamtheater on Aug 21, 2019 13:22:43 GMT
Success does not have to be fleeting -IF you have a well run, well funded and well managed football club . Success I always saw for Stoke City was always:- to be a stable and well respected premier league football club that did not necessarily have to win things year on year but, maintain upper quartile status and be competitive, particularly strong at home in the premier league and, have a realistic tilt at the cups. Sadly, this is something Stoke City chose to throw away in pretty spectacular fashion.
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Post by chad on Aug 21, 2019 14:39:10 GMT
3,wives 6 houses 20 odd cars 5 dogs 6 cats
One football club
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Post by marylandstoke on Aug 21, 2019 14:47:28 GMT
You have forgotten about the Autoglass and Watney's cup success! We’ve won it two times We’ve won it two times....... |
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Post by Somebody_Told_Me on Aug 21, 2019 14:57:46 GMT
Yes ofcourse. Exact same Stoke as now.... but history of winning things? Would shut Forest fans up at least.
(not sure about league below and skint though)
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 21, 2019 15:36:44 GMT
There's nothing more Stokie than wallowing in abject failure. Yes there is - constantly winging that the real team on the pitch isn't matching up to the glorious imaginary one running around in your head. Or at least it's the MO of the Stokie who supports Stoke City FC (est 2008 - disbanded 2018) and who has a problem dealing with not being in Kansas anymore. Down Toto. Gibberish mate. |
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Post by melbournestokie21 on Aug 21, 2019 15:45:31 GMT
No one supports stoke because we win things
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 21, 2019 16:51:47 GMT
No. I always say you can change your house, car, country and wife (I have done them all), but you can’t change your team. It’s with you for life, a bit like herpes. Exactly, anyone who changes his team was never a true fan in the first place. (Heard a so called ManU fan on the TV earlier today who admitted he had never been to a match.) |
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MooG
Youth Player
Only the wisest and stupidest of men never change.
Posts: 493
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Post by MooG on Aug 21, 2019 17:26:18 GMT
Yes probably.
I'd still be a Stoke fan since that has been based on geography rather than reasoned choice or good sense, so it would be nice if our glorious history was a bit more ... glorious.
On the other hand if you'd asked me this while we were in the Premier division and Sunderland were a basket case I think I'd have said no so this just shows what a fickle hypocrite I can be.
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