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Post by GoBoks on Jun 3, 2021 15:49:52 GMT
You don't have to give them up, you can always continue to wear them, wherever you want to (even in bed!), just don't expect everyone else to do so. Perhaps people hate them because for almost 18 months we have been forced to wear them for a disease that kills 16 out of 10,000 people. That's 9,984 people out of 10,000 having to wear them needlessly. In Sweden the people aren't forced to wear face masks, it's all based on voluntariness. When the first wave peaked I'd say only 5% wore them in food stores (because they trusted Tegnell more than the lab studies). When the second wave peaked it was perhaps 25% from what I saw who were wearing them in food stores. But now, after what they called the third wave up here no longer exists and we only have 1-2 death cases per day on average, 75% of the people in food stores wear them, almost everyone in buses and trams and about 25% of the people walking on the pavements. Have you read the released e-mails from Dr. Fauci? To an 80 year old friend, he writes that masks are not effective in protecting you from the virus, but should be worn more for preventing a sick person from spreading the virus to others! He goes on to advise her not to wear a mask if she does not feel sick. Perhaps there was a reason to trust Tegnell more than the "Lab Studies".
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Post by GoBoks on Jun 3, 2021 15:45:14 GMT
You don't have to give them up, you can always continue to wear them, wherever you want to (even in bed!), just don't expect everyone else to do so. Perhaps people hate them because for almost 18 months we have been forced to wear them for a disease that kills 16 out of 10,000 people. That's 9,984 people out of 10,000 having to wear them needlessly. 18 months, it's not even 11 yet, it was late July when they came in? USA was much earlier, but you're right, it was probably 15 months - call me a liar for 3 months!
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Post by GoBoks on Jun 2, 2021 17:26:02 GMT
I must say it's good to see so many ignoring the mask rules in supermarkets now. The mask madness has to go on 21st June. People are starting to look utterly ridiculous wearing those ghastly things against a virus that isn't actually killing anyone in this country anymore. Crucial tool that almost certainly saved loads of lives by slowing the virus' spread. Oh, and let more of the economy stay open for longer. The hatred of them is really weird, but at least we need them less now. You don't have to give them up, you can always continue to wear them, wherever you want to (even in bed!), just don't expect everyone else to do so. Perhaps people hate them because for almost 18 months we have been forced to wear them for a disease that kills 16 out of 10,000 people. That's 9,984 people out of 10,000 having to wear them needlessly.
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Post by GoBoks on Jun 2, 2021 17:22:10 GMT
I get that they saying deaths are low because it is reflecting what the situation was 4 weeks ago and infections are slightly up especially this last week or so, but we have also had 4 more weeks of vaccination going on so hopefully that will help. My worry is if we give them another 4 weeks after June 21st then they will want another 4 weeks then another and then we will be back in autumn /winter and you know what that means...☠☠☠ You think it's wrong for people to want to go on vacation? Or, putting it another way, You think it's right that the government feels it can tell you when where and how you are allowed to leave your house?
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Post by GoBoks on Jun 1, 2021 21:03:34 GMT
The data is from here and if you can read Python code then you can see how they did it here. If you can read Spanish then the Peruvian death counts are here, from their Ministry of Health. I didn't test for bugs or anything but the code looks a sensible way to do it IMO. If the Peruvian Ministry of Health data is accurate then ~180k excess deaths during covid seems about right. EDIT: No idea how they realised they were undercounting. It's pretty damn obvious, like in most places and times where there wasn't enough testing. Not sure what you mean by “it’s pretty damn obvious...”, it actually isn’t and the way they’ve done it looks at first blush opaque Thanks for posting that data (I’m struggling to analyse it as I’m on a phone) Can you tell what comparative dates they’ve used and are the comparative dates and timelines the same? Hey TCM, just as a matter of interest, why does it matter to you? If you can positively prove that they're over-estimating, under-estimating or spot on, those who want to believe the data show a need for whatever action (tightening or loosening restrictions) will simply ignore the evidence and keep on pushing their "party" line. Personally, I'm tired of trying to encourage people to use common-sense. If they want to live in fear and surrender their rights left right and center regardless of the logic behind the restrictions, have at it.
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Post by GoBoks on May 31, 2021 21:49:19 GMT
Thank you Malcolm for all your great work, information and help 👍 And I think that it’s a disgusting rule What difference does age make as long as you have all your balls in one basket. Exactly. Joe Biden will be in his 80s by the end of this term. If he can run a country it seems odd that Malcolm can't be trusted to sit on a sports panel. IF! Problem is he can't! Malcolm runs rings around Sippy Cup Joe as far as accomplishments go. Thanks for all the work you have done Malcolm.
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Post by GoBoks on May 31, 2021 21:44:50 GMT
No-one brave enough to take my challenge??? I've put my money where my mouth is - We will not be relegated in the 21-22 season. Time for you negative nicker-wetting ninnies to put up or prove that you are a bag of (ill) wind! Slight flaw is I haven’t said we’d be relegated , I’m waiting to see the summer we have and will give my much awaited points production in August I know you hadn't yet said it - that's why I asked where you were. Surely you are not going to break your record of 35 seasons in a row of predicting we'll be relegated?
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Post by GoBoks on May 31, 2021 12:50:11 GMT
Where's Benny Biscuit? Ok all you wimpy so-called fans- I challenge you: If you're so confident that we're going down, post your Fifty Pound bookie ticket on here. I don't bet, but if we get relegated, I will donate Fifty Pounds to the Oatcake's favorite Stoke based charity. You should get excellent odds right now and your money should be safe as houses, unless of course, you're all talking negative crap as usual. No-one brave enough to take my challenge??? I've put my money where my mouth is - We will not be relegated in the 21-22 season. Time for you negative nicker-wetting ninnies to put up or prove that you are a bag of (ill) wind!
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Post by GoBoks on May 31, 2021 12:45:00 GMT
We're 8/1 with Skybet to go down. If i wasn't a Stoke fan I'd be all over that price. There's no rule that says you can't make money just because you support Stoke! Or are you really just talking tripe because you know we will not go down?
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Post by GoBoks on May 31, 2021 12:41:47 GMT
Cases do matter. Cases turn into hospitalisations. And if a small amount of added hospitalisations puts the NHS under then that’s no good for anyone. It does work but it’s proven that for this variant 2 doses does the trick. One works but is still allowing hospitalisations, so we need more to get that second dose. So keep jabbing and take the lateral flow tests. If cases still turn into hospitalisations then the vaccines don’t work, so we need to suspend the vaccination programme and lock down society permanently. Or, if the vaccines do work, then most cases won’t become hospitalisations and we need to open society up. We can’t have this both ways. If the "vaccines", (are they really vaccines or actually prophylactic treatment?), don't work, permanent lockdown is not an option. People need to accept Covid is here to stay and learn to live with it.
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Post by GoBoks on May 31, 2021 12:39:02 GMT
Just watch next winter when the case, hospitalisations and deaths invariably go up these harbinger of doom experts will be screeching for more lockdowns. It will need strong leadership to manage this! Not really, I believe what it needs is for people on both sides of the aisle to stop sniping at the other side in an effort to optimize the benefit they gain despite the needless suffering it is bringing to the people whose interests they are supposed to represent. That way they can use everyday commonsense and laugh the doomsayers off the stage.
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Post by GoBoks on May 31, 2021 12:34:59 GMT
Cases do matter. Cases turn into hospitalisations. And if a small amount of added hospitalisations puts the NHS under then that’s no good for anyone. It does work but it’s proven that for this variant 2 doses does the trick. One works but is still allowing hospitalisations, so we need more to get that second dose. So keep jabbing and take the lateral flow tests. Cases in isolation don’t matter at all, it’s the correlation with hospitalisation and it’s farcical to suggest that we are anywhere close to putting the “NHS under” And, what kind of brilliant health system would be in danger of collapsing if "a small amount of added hospitalisations puts the NHS under"? Perhaps the Billions of Pounds that have been spent on Covid could have been used to beef up the system?
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Post by GoBoks on May 31, 2021 12:31:28 GMT
Just send them back anyway. Here, your citizen, deal with them however you want. They wont send them back. Another problem, btw, is the criminals who have got a prison sentence here in Sweden. They simply often choose not to show up on the first day (invitation day) and thereby avoiding it. And the police don't have resources to go looking for them. Again. Bad system? 😁 ROFL - Invitation Day!!!! Dear Sir, you are cordially invited to join us for your orientation ceremony as you begin your 25 year prison sentence! Place: Kronoberg Prison Reception Hall Time: 10:00AM Dress: Black & White Suits will be provided Bread and water will be served. Please plan to arrive on time as the doors will be closed at 10:01 AM. We look forward to seeing you there! BTW, just looked up Sweden Prison system ........... Guess what? Liberals are full of praise for a system where "..there is a very small amount of Swedes who do re-offend and return to prison....." ROFL So I re-offend, get sentenced and don't show up on "invitation day".......... and this is counted as proof of how good the prison system is? Unbelievable! What kafkaesque thinking could lead to this incomprehensible conclusion?
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Post by GoBoks on May 30, 2021 19:55:10 GMT
They got their tactics badly wrong. Chelsea got theirs spot on, without the dramatics it was a good game and all in all. I’m pleased that the best team on the night won, no over the top diving/rolling around and trying to con the ref who in my opinion was outstanding. On a personal note it’s a disgrace that only a few years ago that I’d look at booking my holidays etc to avoid missing out on games against the likes of Man Pity and Chelsea and the the people who’ve created our demise are sitting pretty still in position, disgraceful. You ungrateful wretch, don't you realize they did it specifically so your holiday planning would be easier. You should be thanking them.
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Post by GoBoks on May 30, 2021 19:39:56 GMT
I thought we were top half of the Prem/Division 1 every year until Scholes fecked it all up ROFL What about our time in the third tier?
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Post by GoBoks on May 30, 2021 19:30:10 GMT
Where's Benny Biscuit?
Ok all you wimpy so-called fans- I challenge you: If you're so confident that we're going down, post your Fifty Pound bookie ticket on here. I don't bet, but if we get relegated, I will donate Fifty Pounds to the Oatcake's favorite Stoke based charity. You should get excellent odds right now and your money should be safe as houses, unless of course, you're all talking negative crap as usual.
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Post by GoBoks on May 30, 2021 19:13:34 GMT
Do England have problems with criminals who refuse to take a Covid-19 test, so they can't be sent back to prison in their home country? In Sweden it's a huge problem and they have no solution in sight. It's the main news here, together with a vaccination plan for children and the plan for the third vaccine dose in December to everyone. 😷 Just send them back anyway. Here, your citizen, deal with them however you want.
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Post by GoBoks on May 30, 2021 19:10:32 GMT
A lockdown protest forces a shopping centre to lockdown? I think these protestors might usefully think again about what they are trying to achieve. Yeah I must say I didn't think the location was great 😂 They should stick to pelting stuff at the BBC HQ's 😊 or #10 Downing street.
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Post by GoBoks on May 30, 2021 0:48:39 GMT
So are you saying they are not really avaccine in the traditional sense but more a prophylactic treatment against Covid in case you catch it? I've no expertise at all but you ask a good question. With say a polio jab I would expect not to catch polio but for sure with the Covid jab you are less likely to catch it but by no means safe. The real benefit seems to be if you do your body will be ready to fight it. My guess is that a flu jab is somewhat the same. Gods! Did you honestly let them inject you with something without really knowing what it is or even what it does?
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Post by GoBoks on May 29, 2021 13:31:04 GMT
Looking beyond doubt now that the June 21st relaxing date is not going to happen based on today’s news, what really pisses me off now is India were/are having an horrendously bad time with the virus and yet travel was happening freely Willy Nilly as if nothing was happening. Basically we’ve all done our bit but Boris and Co open the borders for any Tom, Dick and Harry to attend weddings etc wherever people feel like and return home and “supposedly” isolate for a fortnight. Then there’s literally hundreds of thousands of ordinary people booking overseas holidays, again what do Boris and Co think will happen upon their return. I have absolutely no idea where this will end but whatever we have imposed upon us you can guarantee that somehow Boris will screw it up by leaving stupid loopholes for people to exploit and then we all suffer So what do you recommend? Everybody stay locked indoors for the next 5 years? Covid is here to stay, and the sooner people learn to accept and live with that the better off everyone will be. Yes, some will die, just as they do from HIV, Flu or a myriad of other diseases. Stopping all movement and the ability to earn a living is a ludicrous response to this issue.
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Post by GoBoks on May 29, 2021 13:24:52 GMT
They can try that. I shall ignore every word, wilfully and deliberately. Because if they do that, they are saying "the vaccines don't work and house arrest is how life is going to be permanently'. I suppose it depends what you mean by 'don't work ' ? If you mean you won't catch Covid then no they don't work. With AZ 30% less likely to catch a dose of Indian on 1 jab and 60% on 2. Where they do work is helping you fight Covid so you don't end up in ICU. And don't forget only about half of us are vaccinated. Anyway I don't want tougher measures but I feel like I have seen this movie twice before and so I know what happens next! So are you saying they are not really avaccine in the traditional sense but more a prophylactic treatment against Covid in case you catch it?
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Post by GoBoks on May 29, 2021 1:35:46 GMT
With regards to face bra's, doesn't millions years of history tell you the human body needs exposure to virus' to survive ? I'm getting more and more convinced the human race is turning into a complete and utter arsehole. Unfortunately, half the human race has always been arseholes. Throughout history, there are examples of people vehemently disagreeing with someone else which ultimately results in violence. See the news headline "Cain Kills Abel" from the year dot.
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Post by GoBoks on May 29, 2021 1:33:11 GMT
Have you even bothered looking? We've had this debate at least three times over the past year. I sent you the only remotely respectable study out of Copenhagen. You sent me a load of useless turd based on "may's" and "could be's" because that's all you've got. There is zero evidence to suggest masks reduce the spread covid. Stop pretending there is to suit your bizarre, covid obsessed, scientifically redundant agenda. Shove your masks up your arse. What I don't understand is why so many people refuse to even have an open mind and ask questions. No one is saying "don't dare get the vaccine". If it's what you want to do great, but don't force your view on me.
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Post by GoBoks on May 28, 2021 20:38:35 GMT
He’s responding to Stoke fans on Insta with sarcastic comments. Shows what an absolute wanker he is! Why shouldn't he respond sarcastically to some of the bellend comments "supporters" make? If someone was telling you things like "when you were born, the doctor threw you out the window, but the window threw you back"?
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Post by GoBoks on May 28, 2021 20:23:15 GMT
t. I'd argue that you did not answer the question I asked, so I'll rephrase it: What percentage chance of picking up a serious complication do you think is acceptable for you to agree to receive the CURRENT COVID-19 vaccine? (Not Ebola, not some other exotic deadly disease, Covid-19, and not death but a serious complication). I'd compare risks, starting with personal risk, then adding societal risk. Example calculation: my age group has a 1-in-a-thousand chance of ending up in hospital with covid. If "in hospital" measures "serious complication" then since covid-19's final attack rate is 79-90%, I'll assume an 80% chance of eventually catching covid without a vaccine. Personal risk=0.08% from covid and I'll take a vaccine with <0.08% risk of serious complications (there's another adjustment factor, but it's small). Societal benefits make the vaccine more valuable but no need to work that out since vaccine risks are <0.08% anyway. That's how I'd go about it. As far as your question, Your question is a little ambiguous. Firstly, the rate of infections would not necessarily increase in the un-vaccinated population. There would be fewer people that contract or carry Covid and therefore I would argue that the rate would continue to go down compared to previous levels where the unvaccinated pool was larger. Did you calculate it or check numbers for this, or go with your gut on this one? But that goes to prove that vaccines are not the be all and end all of dealing with a disease. Well, we know viruses lie on a spectrum, and that there are multiple strains of flu and it mutates quickly. Vaccines are the be-all and end-all for a virus that mutates slowly, like measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox. But I don't think of it as a "be all and end all" because I don't always think in absolute terms. Summary of my stance: viruses spread until enough people are immune, for covid this is 70-90 %. Fewer immune people means faster spread so if you skip the vaccine, you're more likely to get and transmit it, killing and harming more people. We know this is true, and that success by antivaxxers means more dead people and a higher chance of new strains making everything go to shit again. We have good evidence that the vaccines are very safe, with rare side effects. It makes sense to me to argue that if the vaccines are worse than the disease then don't take the vaccine, but you have to accept in that case that you're helping the disease to kill people. Work has been getting really busy and I wanted to give proper thought to your posts so I'll try to keep responding, but I might not be albe to. Thanks for taking the time to stick with this, I have to say I still don't understand the basic logic you're working off but I learned a few things. Sorry to be pedantic, but you are really not answering my question! "What percentage chance of picking up a serious complication do you think is acceptable for you to agree to receive the CURRENT COVID-19 vaccine? (Not Ebola, not some other exotic deadly disease, Covid-19, and not death but a serious complication)" is not a hypothetical "how would you calculate the risk, but rather what percentage (i.e. a number between 0-100) risk of serious adverse reaction from Covid shot that you personally think is acceptable in order for you to agree to take the current Covid shot? Summary of my stance: Viruses are with us every single day. We would need dozens of vaccinations to prevent every variation of even just the flu, let alone the myriad diseases out there. Therefore I believe that the overall response to any disease has to be proportionate to the outcomes of the disease. In almost every disease some will be harmed or killed. If the number harmed/killed outweighs the socio-economic damage, shut down and enforce mandatory vaccinations. If socio-economic damage outweighs those harmed killed, use less stringent methods. In my opinion, Covid does not warrant the over-the-top response adopted by the authorities and it has been used to further political agendas and profiteering.
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Post by GoBoks on May 28, 2021 19:39:34 GMT
All along, I have been saying look at both sides of the story, Government is saying get vaccinated, just as they have said it's "perfectly safe" (untrue), Wear 2 masks (untrue), schoolkids should wear masks while competing in outdoor sports (untrue), nonsensical rules for some but not others and the list goes on. On the other side, there are grand conspiracy theories that say human extermination is happening at the hand of Scientists (untrue), Government (untrue), Doctors (untrue), and the list goes on. The real truth lies somewhere in the middle, which is why it is important to look at all available information and come to an informed decision. I have given you a very specific reason why I chose not to "vaccinate", which you have chosen to ignore. It is not because Tucker Carlson says X or Dr. Fauci says Y, it is because my immediate family has been affected by a life changing adverse event after a vaccination. With a track record of 5 months, there is no way on earth that anyone can say with any certainty at all that there are no long term consequences of taking this vaccine, and if they do, they are lying. On the other hand, we do know that the consequence of not getting the vaccine is a 16 in 100,000 (and getting smaller every day) chance of dying from Covid and that there are other actions you can take to reduce the risk. To you it's a no-brainer to take the vaccine. To me it's a no-brainer not to take it. Time will tell if one, none or both of us were right. Let's check in in 5 years time and see how each of us are doing. If I die from Covid before then, I'll make it a stipulation of my will that my heirs log on and let you know! Please do the same. Vaccines have side effects and I'm really sorry if you have direct experience of one going wrong in your immediate family and I get why that would make you reticent about the covid vaccine. However you posted a link to an article entitled "Doctors agree that Covid-19 Injections Are Bioweapons" on a particularly blatant conspiracy theory web site. You may have good reasons for not having the vaccine but batshit crazy theories about vaccines being bioweapons isn't one of them. Again, you miss the point. The "bat-shit crazy" theories are on one extreme of the spectrum. The "everyone should have this totally safe vaccine" is on the other side of the spectrum. I am tired of people accepting either side's point of view without asking questions. As of this instant, no one has been able to answer the question "Why are deaths that are reported after taking Covid shot (note: not necessarily caused by Covid shot) so much higher than for any other vaccine in history?" That certainly deserves investigation. Carlson and others may put a sensationalist agenda driven spin on the facts, but the basic fact remains undisputed.
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Post by GoBoks on May 28, 2021 18:23:33 GMT
See that's a difference in the way we think - I've seen Tucker Carlson speaking about my area and I know he will twist facts to trick people, even if that deception is incredibly harmful. It's also hard to imagine that his deception isn't on purpose, so I don't consider him a "reliable source" to guide my thinking at all. This is how I interpret that article: 1) It's really good to look at all the costs and benefits of all medicine 2) The tools we have are so effective they detected AZ-related clots at a rate of something like 1-in-100k for clots and 1-in-a-million for deaths. So we know that anything that kills people at a rate of 1-in-a-million should get found pretty quickly. 3) This article is a completely dumb way to test it and is baselessly scaremongering. Imagine you saw an article that spent pages talking about how literally thousands of people have died since they voted for Trump last November, asking why is no-one investigating this properly? And strongly implying that voting for Trump is somehow dangerous for your own health. I think you'd agree that those facts are true, but it's intentionally deceptive and wrong. Carlson's case is even worse because to get to that data you have to click an agreement that you have read and understood that "VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness" and it's "to report any clinically significant health problem following vaccination to VAERS, whether or not they believe the vaccine was the cause." The doctors' notes say stuff like "After vaccination, patient tested positive for COVID-19. Patient was very ill and had numerous chronic health issues prior to vaccination. Facility had a number of patients who had already tested positive for COVID-19. Vaccination continued in an effort to prevent this patient from contracting the virus or to mitigate his risk. This was unsuccessful and patient died. COVID-19 positive test approximately one week after vaccination. There is no evidence to support that the vaccine caused his death in any way." (VAERS ID: 0917117-1) Sorry for the long post, but there's a good reason to ignore the deception coming out of Tucker Carlson. And this is worse than the hypothetical Trump case, because his misinformation will baselessly scare people about vaccine safety, and if fewer people then take the vaccine more people will die and it massively increases the chance of new variants getting going sooner. Ah! You're back - I was afraid we'd lost you to a Covid shot adverse event! I don't for one moment take as Gospel, anything that anyone says without verification. I agree Carlson spins it the way he wants too, just as the liberal media spin things as they want to. Anyone who believes everything said by someone who earns their living by making things as sensational as possible to ensure people continue to watch/read/listen is in big trouble. To your examples. If there was a monitoring system to track deaths after voting for X presidential candidate, I'd expect to see consistent trends across many years. If suddenly the number of deaths after voting for President Trump skyrocketed to a level 60 times that multi-year trend, I'd say that warrants investigation to find the root causes. Why bother monitoring if the results are to be ignored? Carlson for the sake of sensationalism says "Covid shots killed x people", which is wrong. What is an indisputable fact is that the VAERS monitoring has established a trend of "Deaths after receiving vaccine" (regardless of actual cause). If a sudden spike occurs to show that "Deaths after receiving Covid vaccine" (regardless of cause) is 60 times the "normal observed rate", I'd say that warrants investigation not simply ignoring it, otherwise we are wasting our time and money on monitoring. I would also disagree with your interpretation of the article. 1) The tools are only effective if used correctly. For Carlson to say "we are killing people" or Biden/Fauci/whoever to say "nothing to see here" is equally wrong. 2) The tools are only monitoring for what they think they should monitor. In the initial stages of using Thalidomide, no-one thought there were reactions. 9 months later a terrible trend started to develop. There are people starting to report issues such as extremely low sperm count. Was this a factor that was being monitored? The spike proteins that the Covid shot causes your body to produce, can cause complications. No one can reliably say when the body will "turn off" producing these spike proteins. Is someone monitoring the 100s of millions for this? Therefore your statement "we know that anything that kills people at a rate of 1-in-a-million should get found pretty quickly." is a faulty logic. If 1 vaccinated person in 300 different towns across the USA dies from "flu" (more than 1 in a million) no one will pick that up as a possible COVID adverse reaction. After all Millions die from the flu each year. 3)I agree, but after removing the sensationalism aspect, it does raise the interesting question "why the big difference from long-standing norm?". My basic approach is listen to everything everyone has to say. Verify where possible. Apply common-sense to the issue. Ask lots of questions. Formulate your opinion. Change your opinion where warranted. To simply swallow what people say without a good dose of scepticism is really dangerous IMO.
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Post by GoBoks on May 28, 2021 16:07:15 GMT
Does that mean it will make us immortal? That’s how I read it It must be true - it was in the mainstream media!
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Post by GoBoks on May 28, 2021 16:05:34 GMT
In Milan for work for a few days. They’ve to wear masks outside unless jogging or eating. Complete and utter nonsense I always like to see people driving round on their own with masks on. True heroes 🦸♂️ Why are some people such brain-dead ninnys?
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Post by GoBoks on May 28, 2021 16:02:33 GMT
They can’t even make a safe talcum powder. Who’s gonna trust their vaccine? How do I give this 100 likes? Spot On! None of these bozos/companies know what they are talking about and history abounds with examples of medications, tonics, make-up, food, and heaven knows what else that was considered "safe" in the grand pursuit of the almighty dollar only to find out that "oops, who knew that tobacco/breast implants/lead paint/asbestos/acetaminophen/<insert any of 1,000s> could kill you?" But hey, shut up and inject this experimental stuff into your body, it's safe!
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