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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 23:38:54 GMT
Fair play to GB News for doing a show from a care home in North Devon. Look at the audience 🤣. The people who watch this are the same who complain about a question time audience with a diverse audience representing all views. I'm not quite sure how this sort of stuff is allowed to be broadcast nowadays. It's dangerous, racist, bullshit. Just who is Julie talking about, when she refers to *our* people and which are the War memorials she claims have been pulled down? They're not even hiding it anymore.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 23:33:00 GMT
I'm not even sure what that means. Just flipping the question for a second ... Is there another nation on earth, where I think the people of that nation should feel proud of where they were born? Not particularly. Is there a nation on earth, where I think the people of that nation should feel ashamed of where they were born? Not particularly. And I guess that's how most people from other nations see us. If somebody judged me one way or the other because of where i was born, I'd be desperately dissapointed, I'd much prefer they judge me for who I am. It's ME who I should be proud of and ME who I should be ashamed of, where and when necessary. So.... neither Explain what it means to you BJR and I'll try and have a crack at it. I just don't understand how you cam be proud or ashamed over something you had absolutely no say in.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 22:39:38 GMT
I saw Manic Street preachers and Deacon Blue are playing Trentham gardens this year. Went on to check how much preacher tickets are. £66 a ticket is! Am I the only one that thinks this is ridiculous or is this just the going rate these days? That's bang in line for a band of their size currently mate. I'm going to see similarly sized bands for pretty much the exact same price at the Castlefield Bowl and the Apollo, later this year and have tickets for 'big' bands between double and treble of those prices (sadly).
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 22:30:31 GMT
So you think he was right to have an issue with apartheid believing South Africans but he isn't right to have an issue with apartheid believing Israelis? You have just said that apartheid is racist poison. So it's racist poison in South Africa but it isn't racist poison in Israel? Apartheid is racist poison, period, isn't it? Not all South Africans are racist poison. Not all Israelis are racist poison. Apartheid is racist poison. Do you see the difference? Also, Israel is not the same as South Africa during apartheid. Most Nationalist South Afrikaners believed in apartheid, as do the hundreds of thousands of illegal Israeli settlers who have poured into Palestine. Excuse me, but do YOU see the lack of difference? Archbishop Tutu said that he believed the apartheid installed in Israel was worse than that in South Africa. Do you now accept that the reason Galloway did not engage with the Israeli student was not for racist reasons?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 22:18:34 GMT
English what? Language? Football? Judiciary? Literature? Breakfast? Nationality I'm not even sure what that means. Just flipping the question for a second ... Is there another nation on earth, where I think the people of that nation should feel proud of where they were born? Not particularly. Is there a nation on earth, where I think the people of that nation should feel ashamed of where they were born? Not particularly. And I guess that's how most people from other nations see us. If somebody judged me one way or the other because of where i was born, I'd be desperately dissapointed, I'd much prefer they judge me for who I am. It's ME who I should be proud of and ME who I should be ashamed of, where and when necessary.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 21:58:13 GMT
So why do you draw a difference between his hatred of apartheid South Africa and his hatred of apartheid Israel? Hate the government or the regime, not the people. You have just said that apartheid is racist poison. So you think he was right to have an issue with racist apartheid believing South Africans but he isn't right to have an issue with racist apartheid believing Israelis? So apartheid is racist poison in South Africa but apartheid isn't racist poison in Israel? Apartheid is racist poison, period, isn't it?
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English
Mar 6, 2024 21:35:16 GMT
via mobile
lordb likes this
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 21:35:16 GMT
English what?
Language? Football? Judiciary? Literature? Breakfast?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 21:31:31 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 21:26:32 GMT
Surely most of us saw Jewish Space Lazers supporting World of Twist back in the day but really, Maitliss reels her catch in here, with expert precision ...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 21:05:41 GMT
You don't need to see into his mind, you can listen to his words and assess his actions. He was working with Jewish members of the ANC, in an attempt to bring down apartheid. How can you possibly be confused? Or do you disagree with him when he says that ... "apartheid is racist poison, the worst form of fascism"? It is certainly racist poison. I am not sure it is the worst form of fascism. Auschwitz probably holds that grim title. I don’t think his actions in SA were racist. His hatred of everything Israeli is another matter. So why do you draw a difference between his hatred of apartheid South Africa and his hatred of apartheid Israel?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 20:30:31 GMT
I hope those splinters are too painful Not everything is black or white. After watching the videos I cannot say he was definitely being racist. I cannot see into his mind. You don't need to see into his mind, you can listen to his words and assess his actions. He was working with Jewish members of the ANC, in an attempt to bring down apartheid. How can you possibly be confused? Or do you disagree with him when he says that ... "apartheid is racist poison, the worst form of fascism"?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 16:40:39 GMT
Would have liked to have seen the tax threshold increased today but at least workers are being thrown a bone with a NI reduction. Which workers are you talking about mate? If you earn £28k a year, you will be worse off. If you earn £280k a year, you'll be better off.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 6, 2024 0:21:55 GMT
What is Macron's agenda here?
He knows that the US aren't interested in escalating it, so what is it that he's actually advocating Europe should do?
And why is he bringing up Putin mentioning nuclear weapons, so what if he is, what is he suggesting we do about it?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 21:43:58 GMT
Save Iversen, how many saves has he made tonight? 5 or 6? He's been brilliant!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 19:24:24 GMT
Everywhere is just gridlocked mate it’s crazy….. Good luck bud 🤞
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 19:15:43 GMT
For the first time in an extremely long time, I wish I was at an away game that I'm not.
Really hope the spirit from Saturday can carry them over the line! 🙏
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Israel
Mar 5, 2024 19:13:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 19:13:09 GMT
More conflation between Israel and British Jewry, and the real scourge of antisemitism just gets ignored in all this nonsense..... It becomes antisemitic in itself. Hugely troubling ...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 19:10:10 GMT
Hopefully they’ll delay the kick off the whole area is fucked…… What's up mate?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 19:05:42 GMT
But you now understand why it isn't racist? I understand that it might not be racist. But it definitely could be. In this specific instance, the reason Galloway didn't want to debate with him, wasn't for racist reasons?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 18:56:11 GMT
You can see his reasons here: Here is the student speaking Hebrew waving an Israeli flag in his face: Probably better watching the videos to understand his reasoning than read headlines. “I’d rather punch him in the face than debate with him” when talking about whether he would debate with someone who he says “supports apartheid “. Speaks for itself. Thank goodness he is not in charge because if he is not willing to speak to someone holding the opposite extreme view to him, and he only wants to fight, it means war. No possible ceasefire. No possible agreement. No possible chance of Israel existing next to Palestine or vice versa. It totally confirms he is part of the problem. The Israeli guy didn’t do himself many favours but also didn’t threaten violence which is what Galloway did. But you now understand why it isn't racist?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 14:07:52 GMT
If he had refused to debate an Afrikaner Nationalist in the 80's, you would be laughed out of the room, if you had declared that was racist. And this is exactly the same thing, he refused to debate with Levy because of what he believes in ... a state of occupation and apartheid, where one of two peoples are treated as second class citizens. My opinion for what it's worth mate is that saying "I don't debate with a supporter of apartheid" ".......a defender of the Israeli regime" "........a Zionist propogandist" is absolutely fine whether you think it's appropriate language or rude/uncivil or not. Whereas I'm uncomfortable with him saying "I don't talk to Israeli's" which implies across the board and under any circumstances which for me is xenophobic. For some it might be semantics and I agree with your analogy I just think the language he uses crosses the line (he may have "misspoken" as they say these days)........ That's fair mate. But as Oggy (correctly) said, it is the underlying REASON that is important.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 13:46:37 GMT
Are you deliberately being obtuse mate? Of course the reason is critical, that is why I've given you this specific example. I am not being obtuse at all. He refused to debate an Israeli because of his nationality. That reason, based on his nationality, is racist in my opinion. Had he refused for a different reason it probably would not have been about race. So tell me the reason Galloway is refusing this fictional debate and I will tell you whether or not I think it is racist. If he had refused to debate an Afrikaner Nationalist in the 80's, you would be laughed out of the room, if you had declared that was racist. And this is exactly the same thing, he refused to debate with Levy because of what he believes in ... a state of occupation and apartheid, where one of two peoples are treated as second class citizens.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 13:32:41 GMT
I'll ask it again ... If Galloway had refused to debate with an Afrikaner Nationalist in the 80's, would that have as equally made him racist Oggy? It depends on the reason. If his mum had just died and he had to go to her funeral instead, no, it certainly would not be racist. If it is because of the person’s race, then yes. The reason is critical. Are you deliberately being obtuse mate? Of course the reason is critical, that is why I've given you this specific example.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 13:25:25 GMT
Oggy, with respect, why have you ignored the question I've asked you? It is absolutely central to the point I'm making. Ok, I’ll answer. It depends on the reason he refuses the debate. I'll ask it again ... If Galloway had refused to debate with an Afrikaner Nationalist in the 80's, would that have as equally made him racist Oggy?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 13:17:48 GMT
If Galloway had refused to debate with an Afrikaner Nationalist in the 80's, would that have as equally made him racist Oggy? And out of interest do you know WHO he refused to debate with? Eylon Levy, the despicable, lying, official mouthpiece for Netanyahu's government, who just a few weeks ago described a million peaceful protesters in London, as 'rape apologists'. If the reason you refuse to debate someone is because of their nationality then you are racist. If you don’t engage with Netanyahu then a ceasefire is impossible. The same applies to Hamas. Corbyn got pummelled for saying we should speak with Hamas (he probably should not have called them “friends”) but he was right that engagement with both sides of a problem is the only way to get an agreement. Oggy, with respect, why have you ignored the question I've asked you? It is absolutely central to the point I'm making.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 13:16:06 GMT
Hashi Mohamed is absolutely brilliant, one of the best British political commentators out there, every word he says here, is bang on the money. And it's not like anything he is saying is ground breaking, he's simply articulating stone cold facts, which history has shown us to be true, multiple times in the past. As for Vicky Ford ... utterly pathetic.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 13:02:15 GMT
Just because you say something, doesn't necessarily make it true. It's possible you, or indeed I, have misinterpreted words and actions. I don't particularly like some of what Galloway says, but unusually for a Politician he is consistent This is a classic case of where you have conflated anti-Zionism with Anti-semitism. Galloway didn't refuse to debate the Student because he was Jewish but because he was Israeli. Galloway's contention then and now is that Israel is an Apartheid State and a previous Apartheid State's collapse, South Africa, was brought down in part by Sanctions I.e.total non engagement. That was his Policy then and now. Why do you think the US have just Sanctioned some Israeli West Bank Settlers, why is the West progressively Sanctioning more and more Russians? The purpose is to isolate so that a State/Individuals can operate how they would like to. By all means criticise Galloway but if you do so understand what you are criticising Even the Jerusalem Post this morning is able to draw the distinction in their Article Link "Antizionist and accused antisemite George Galloway joins UK parliament" Having misinterpreted Galloway's position you then conclude he can't be part of the solution. You may well be right, he is probably too divisive a figure. That doesn't mean his conclusion that the dismantlement of an Apartheid State is the solution to lasting peace where all Citizens are equal in Israel, West Bank, Jerusalem or Gaza in either a One or Two State Solution. I actually don't know if Galloway has called for the release of Hostages, if he hasn't he's wrong and I've said several times I don't agree with Galloway on many things. In a cruel World the 130 Hostages or the 100+ Gazans killed trying to get to a Food Truck are not relevant to a permanent solution, just a reason to continue the insanity. Oggy your original tirade against Galloway was specifically about Chemical Weapons. I invited you 3 times to condemn Israel for using Chemical Weapons. You now have in Gaza but not Lebanon. Its currently being used in Lebanon, not necessarily to kill people but to poison the land and anyone that comes in contact with it for years to come. Very same as US used in Vietnam and Cambodia Blimey Oggy I've said it several times now US and UK did much more than praise Saddam both gave him Military Arms and Money to defeat Iran and more Money after. I know for certain that US supplied the Chemical Weapons which were used on the Kurds,it has been publically released, I can't say for certain UK did. Galloway went to visit Saddam after first visiting Gaza to appeal to him for funds to help the people of Gaza. I've already expressed my opinion in that Galloway is more vociferous in his attacks on Starmer because he knows that within Labour many MPs position is closer to Galloway than Starmer. His hope is to unite the Left under Corbyn. That's my opinion, I could well be wrong. An immediate Ceasefire as called for by SNP would stop the slaughter and bring about relief to 2M Gazans. Israel can not eliminate a Hamas embedded willingly or unwilling among the Civilian Population. The only way to do so is to commit thousands of Special Forces in Gaza to engage directly, it would have a huge number of casualties for Israel and there not prepared to do it, yet. The current tactic of blanket bombing an area I'm sure is killing some Hamas Fighters, but for each Hamas Fighter Killed at least 10 Civilian Women or Children are killed. The US are the only ones that could Broker/Impose a longterm Ceasefire. Biden won't do it, Trump won't do it. If Galloway refuses to debate with someone because they are Israeli he is racist. If Galloway had refused to debate with an Afrikaner Nationalist in the 80's, would that have as equally made him racist Oggy? And out of interest do you know WHO he refused to debate with? Eylon Levy, the despicable, lying, official mouthpiece for Netanyahu's government, who just a few weeks ago described a million peaceful protesters in London, as 'rape apologists'.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 12:25:32 GMT
Are you saying that people can't be racist towards Muslims because Islam is a religion found in many different countries and cultures? Absolutely This is widely contested too. Don't particularly want to get into a debate about whether it is or it isn't but just pointing out that there are numerous scholars and academics out there who regard Islamaphobia as racism.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 12:09:22 GMT
As I said above racism is not defined by whether a person feels oppressed or marginalised. Racism is attributing characteristics and behaviour to a person based on their nationality, ethnicity or religion. I have often heard people excuse their use of a racist slur by saying, "My friend's black and I say it to him all the time and he doesn't mind. " That doesn't make the slur non racist and often black people will say they put up with low level racism because they feel as if they have to. Not nationality. To be fair, 'No Irish allowed' was blatant racism.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 5, 2024 2:07:55 GMT
Referring to him as 'Chopstick' is the very definition of racist behaviour, I worry for those people who can't see it.
It's no different to calling a black player with a non English name 'Chocky' or something similar.
Having said that, I suspect there is probably no malice in the father's description of Bae whatsoever, he's simply just too lazy or too thick (or both) to learn the player's name.
It's the kid you actually have to feel sorry for.
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