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Post by mermaidsal on Sept 13, 2009 13:06:15 GMT
I decided it was about time someone tried talking about this in a thread that wasn't entitled 'BNP, dontcha love/hate them?'... and I've just been thinking anyway.
I'll probably horrify a few fellow liberal pissflappers but I'm not particularly pro-Islamic either, or rather while I don't have any problem with individuals it worries me politically. Everyone's got the right to follow a personal faith and gather to worship with other Christians/Muslims/Jews or whatever, that's one of the best things Britain's built on even in this relatively secular age. As I understand Islam, in many ways it's still a Medieval religion, full of prohibitions and limitations (especially for women) - it would be crude to say it's like the Christianity of the Crusades but in Western terms it does seem to belong to the past sometimes. That's not to say we're right about everything in the West, we're not, spiritually/pyschologically we're pretty fucked up in some ways and we're certainly a greedy materialistic culture and that does massive damage. All the same I believe in freedom of worship once someone's a British citizen.
So why are we so afraid of it, why do we make scapegoats of Muslims in ways we don't generally do anymore about people who are black, Jewish or Irish for example? It's not that there's any serious threat of Muslims wanting to take over Europe, anymore than the Jews were plotting to take over the world in the 1920s/30s, you'd have to be incredibly naive to believe that. But Muslim extremists fighting back and some want to attack us, because the West, especially the US with the Brits licking their boots, have been trying to control the economies and political structures of asset-rich Muslim countries certainly since the end of World War 2 and in the UK's case for 200+ years before that. But wouldn't some of us be doing/feeling the same if the boot was on the other foot? The fact that countries governed by religious belief, like Iran or more dodgily Pakistan, seem very alien to the West, can't help our attitude. That way of thinking makes me hostile, I hate and mistrust any totalitarian government, especially one based on religious belief (in which I'd include Fascism and Stalinist Marxism), and I reckon that's a pretty general response among Western Europeans.
So I'm back to the same question really. Like it or not S-o-T is (in my experience, and judging from election results etc) one of the more racist areas in the UK, the mood is certainly anti-Muslim from many people right now and it's getting worse not better. We've got a very small Muslim population in the area, less than 5%, we've never had a terrorist incident and race riots are minor and occasional.
So why is this such a big deal, in North Staffs of all places?
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Post by salopstick on Sept 13, 2009 13:15:14 GMT
1. sal you are obviously not a muslim so you cant be pro islam
2. blacks, jews and irish do not have people amongst their midst that would walk into a shop/hospital/garage/church/MOSQUE with a bomb strapped to themselves and blow it up. these fuckers do not care about anything, how can you combat that
3. islam is a peaceful religion being hijacked then twisted into something else by muslim fanatics - that is the danger. the vicious circle in trying to stamp down on this fundamentalism and the terror that goes with it just alienates more muslims
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Post by french toast on Sept 13, 2009 13:15:15 GMT
why do we pick on muslims etc, when we dont pick on 4 fingered wierd people that live in our teles??? that little twat, lisa
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Post by StokeOnTour on Sept 13, 2009 13:18:05 GMT
they smell funny
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Post by jonesinamillion on Sept 13, 2009 13:27:57 GMT
I decided it was about time someone tried talking about this in a thread that wasn't entitled 'BNP, dontcha love/hate them?'... and I've just been thinking anyway. I'll probably horrify a few fellow liberal pissflappers but I'm not particularly pro-Islamic either, or rather while I don't have any problem with individuals it worries me politically. Everyone's got the right to follow a personal faith and gather to worship with other Christians/Muslims/Jews or whatever, that's one of the best things Britain's built on even in this relatively secular age. As I understand Islam, in many ways it's still a Medieval religion, full of prohibitions and limitations (especially for women) - it would be crude to say it's like the Christianity of the Crusades but in Western terms it does seem to belong to the past sometimes. That's not to say we're right about everything in the West, we're not, spiritually/pyschologically we're pretty fucked up in some ways and we're certainly a greedy materialistic culture and that does massive damage. All the same I believe in freedom of worship once someone's a British citizen. So why are we so afraid of it, why do we make scapegoats of Muslims in ways we don't generally do anymore about people who are black, Jewish or Irish for example? It's not that there's any serious threat of Muslims wanting to take over Europe, anymore than the Jews were plotting to take over the world in the 1920s/30s, you'd have to be incredibly naive to believe that. But Muslim extremists fighting back and some want to attack us, because the West, especially the US with the Brits licking their boots, have been trying to control the economies and political structures of asset-rich Muslim countries certainly since the end of World War 2 and in the UK's case for 200+ years before that. But wouldn't some of us be doing/feeling the same if the boot was on the other foot? The fact that countries governed by religious belief, like Iran or more dodgily Pakistan, seem very alien to the West, can't help our attitude. That way of thinking makes me hostile, I hate and mistrust any totalitarian government, especially one based on religious belief (in which I'd include Fascism and Stalinist Marxism), and I reckon that's a pretty general response among Western Europeans. So I'm back to the same question really. Like it or not S-o-T is (in my experience, and judging from election results etc) one of the more racist areas in the UK, the mood is certainly anti-Muslim from many people right now and it's getting worse not better. We've got a very small Muslim population in the area, less than 5%, we've never had a terrorist incident and race riots are minor and occasional. So why is this such a big deal, in North Staffs of all places? Shit stirrer
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Post by mermaidsal on Sept 13, 2009 13:39:36 GMT
1. sal you are obviously not a muslim so you cant be pro islam 2. blacks, jews and irish do not have people amongst their midst that would walk into a shop/hospital/garage/church/MOSQUE with a bomb strapped to themselves and blow it up. these fuckers do not care about anything, how can you combat that 3. islam is a peaceful religion being hijacked then twisted into something else by muslim fanatics - that is the danger. the vicious circle in trying to stamp down on this fundamentalism and the terror that goes with it just alienates more muslims I'd agree with 3 entirely - but we're not that many years away from Irish Christians being prepared to do some of the same things really?
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Post by salopstick on Sept 13, 2009 13:49:42 GMT
you are wrong, irish christians would plant a bomb, never become suicide bombers
there is a huge difference as they see them selves as martys, you cant compete with that
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Post by jonesinamillion on Sept 13, 2009 14:01:12 GMT
For the large part, Irish Chritian terrorists would give warning messages which allowed areas to be evacuated, they aimed to cause disruption not large scale massacre - however they would happily kill British police / military as they saw these as "valid" targets.
Muslim exremeist terrrists aim to cause massive, indiscriminant loss of innocent life.
Not condoning either but there's a big difference!
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Post by serpico on Sept 13, 2009 14:05:58 GMT
But Muslim extremists fighting back and some want to attack us, because the West, especially the US with the Brits licking their boots, have been trying to control the economies and political structures of asset-rich Muslim countries certainly since the end of World War 2 and in the UK's case for 200+ years before that. But wouldn't some of us be doing/feeling the same if the boot was on the other foot? I think this is a key point, and I do find it ironic that people over here who claim "the muslims are taking over" conveniently forget that we've been subjugating middle eastern countries for decades, and have actively had our military physically bombing/invading/occupying over them, now you can argue this is the right thing to do, but what you cannot do is deny that we're being attacked because of this and claim it's because of some abstract hatred of "our values", if the shoe were on the other foot then the ultra nationalists over here would have a point about being "taken over", but it is us who is/has been doing the "taking over" of them, by proxy or directly, not the other way around, people can argue that this is the right thing to do, and I'm sure people will, but this has consequences. Throughout history suicide bombings have been carried out by people from across all different groups/religions, this is not exclusive to islam, it's a desperate tactic usually in reaction to foreign occupation, EG in Iraq prior to the war there was not one single recorded suicide bombing. disclaimer: this does not mean i think suicide bombings are justified, I'm stating why they do it, wether you agree with our foreign policy or not, wether you think it's right or wrong, evil or benevolent, the consequences are the same, as the former head of the CIA's bin laden unit once said "bin laden couldn't hope to radicalize more muslims than our foreign policy does, George w Bush has been bin laden most loyal and indispensable ally". As for Iran, prior to us staging a coup it was a very westernized country, the blowback from us installing the brutal shah was the Iranian revolution in 79, which bought to power the religious factions, and then what did we do in reaction to that ? installed SADDAM HUSSAIN in Iraq and armed him to the teeth and people think they hate us because we drink beer .
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Post by scfcrmagic on Sept 13, 2009 14:27:12 GMT
why do we pick on muslims etc, when we dont pick on 4 fingered wierd people that live in our teles??? that little twat, lisa Usual no nonsence approach eh stokie 1000? kinda like the Jeremy Kyle of the GDB board... ;D ;D
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Post by Nick1984 on Sept 13, 2009 17:15:46 GMT
I'm far from Islam's biggest fan either, the way that millions of Muslims interpret the Quran literally is FRIGHTENING!
I do think with Stoke being a small, low income city it's not really in touch with the international world so people here are VERY nationalist and pretty much stuck in the 50s.
I got attacked in Longton for hiring a taxi that just happened to have a black driver, well that instantly made him a muslim in the knuckle draggers eyes who decided to kick the shit out of me and the taxi!
Nationalism and Islamization are 2 of my biggest fear, it turn people into nutjobs!
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Post by beagriestache on Sept 13, 2009 18:19:03 GMT
I'm far from Islam's biggest fan either, the way that millions of Muslims interpret the Quran literally is FRIGHTENING! I do think with Stoke being a small, low income city it's not really in touch with the international world so people here are VERY nationalist and pretty much stuck in the 50s. I got attacked in Longton for hiring a taxi that just happened to have a black driver, well that instantly made him a muslim in the knuckle draggers eyes who decided to kick the shit out of me and the taxi! Nationalism and Islamization are 2 of my biggest fear, it turn people into nutjobs! Just to clarify, you are white and you got the crap beaten out of you in S-o-T for hiring a taxi driven by a black man? Did I understand that right?
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Post by Nick1984 on Sept 13, 2009 18:21:06 GMT
I'm far from Islam's biggest fan either, the way that millions of Muslims interpret the Quran literally is FRIGHTENING! I do think with Stoke being a small, low income city it's not really in touch with the international world so people here are VERY nationalist and pretty much stuck in the 50s. I got attacked in Longton for hiring a taxi that just happened to have a black driver, well that instantly made him a muslim in the knuckle draggers eyes who decided to kick the shit out of me and the taxi! Nationalism and Islamization are 2 of my biggest fear, it turn people into nutjobs! Just to clarify, you are white and you got the crap beaten out of you in S-o-T for hiring a taxi driven by a black man? Did I understand that right? Yeah I stuck up for him a bit before gettin my head kicked in, they said somat like it aint my problem so I went n made it my problem didn't I
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Post by beagriestache on Sept 13, 2009 18:22:56 GMT
What, you got stuck in?
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Post by french toast on Sept 13, 2009 18:23:07 GMT
Just to clarify, you are white and you got the crap beaten out of you in S-o-T for hiring a taxi driven by a black man? Did I understand that right? Yeah I stuck up for him a bit before gettin my head kicked in, they said somat like it aint my problem so I went n made it my problem didn't I this one sounds like there is another side to this story. that we need to hear
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Post by ben88 on Sept 13, 2009 18:24:35 GMT
there are individuals in every religion who would do the same thing. didnt a hard nut christian blow up an abortion clinic in the states a few years ago?
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Post by ben88 on Sept 13, 2009 18:25:10 GMT
or the guy the other week who hijacked a plane in mexico, claiming he had a bomb and he was jesus?
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Post by beagriestache on Sept 13, 2009 18:25:42 GMT
there are individuals in every religion who would do the same thing. didnt a hard nut christian blow up an abortion clinic in the you.S. a few years ago? Dunno, but one shot an abortion doc in a church of all places! Beggars belief really.
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Post by Funky on Sept 13, 2009 19:42:13 GMT
When most Brits travel to muslim countries we respect there religion, we don't drink, women cover up etc etc, I don't see the same from muslims visiting our country.
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Post by scfcrmagic on Sept 13, 2009 19:53:09 GMT
When most Brits travel to muslim countries we respect there religion, we don't drink, women cover up etc etc, I don't see the same from muslims visiting our country. I agree with you on this one funky ...
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Post by ben88 on Sept 13, 2009 20:05:28 GMT
When most Brits travel to muslim countries we respect there religion, we don't drink, women cover up etc etc, I don't see the same from muslims visiting our country. without trying to sound racist, there not visiting, they live here, and some muslim countries like turkey or pakistan, seem very strict because thats the side we see in the news, but i can tell you for a fact that both of the above examples have very westernised regions full of night clubs and bars, where women are not expected to cover up.
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Post by Beardy200 on Sept 13, 2009 20:06:52 GMT
I hate all religions. They are all a bag of shite and cause no end of trouble.
That is all.
Bye.
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Post by ben88 on Sept 13, 2009 20:08:07 GMT
religions are just cults that go to far.
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TUBESS
Youth Player
Posts: 428
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Post by TUBESS on Sept 13, 2009 20:22:18 GMT
I just like the BNP tbh
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Post by mumf14 on Sept 13, 2009 20:22:58 GMT
Mmmm....Only 5% of people in North Staffordshire are Muslim eh..?
Does anyone know what the percentage is of white North Staffordshire people living in Pakistan or India.....or in Asia as a whole...?
Is this a one way love affair...?
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Post by edinburghstokie on Sept 13, 2009 21:23:49 GMT
When most Brits travel to muslim countries we respect there religion, we don't drink, women cover up etc etc, I don't see the same from muslims visiting our country. I was quite happily drinking in Turkey the other week...
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Post by Beardy200 on Sept 13, 2009 21:44:28 GMT
Mmmm....Only 5% of people in North Staffordshire are Muslim eh..? Does anyone know what the percentage is of white North Staffordshire people living in Pakistan or India.....or in Asia as a whole...? Is this a one way love affair...? Are you telling me it's not 5%? I can't believe it
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Post by mumf14 on Sept 13, 2009 22:15:21 GMT
Beardy....I've no idea whether the figures are correct , but in parts of Cheshire the figures in the last census were as low as .10%.
This means that there are 50 times more muslims in North Staffordshire that say North Cheshire....a massive difference in percentage and numbers. It's sometimes several days, if not weeks weeks before you see any foreigners up there, and racial issues are non existent.
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Post by serpico on Sept 13, 2009 22:17:40 GMT
When most Brits travel to muslim countries we respect there religion, we don't drink, women cover up etc etc, I don't see the same from muslims visiting our country. Yes they do, they always cover up and refrain from drinking when they come over here
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Post by Nick1984 on Sept 13, 2009 22:20:21 GMT
Mmmm....Only 5% of people in North Staffordshire are Muslim eh..? Does anyone know what the percentage is of white North Staffordshire people living in Pakistan or India.....or in Asia as a whole...? Is this a one way love affair...? Immigration trades UP
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