|
Post by PotterLog on Mar 11, 2024 19:20:21 GMT
We could take British values to mean, let's say: tolerance, self-reliance, stoicism, democracy, freedom of (and from) religion. As opposed to which other European nations mate? Why "as opposed to"?
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 11, 2024 19:22:27 GMT
As opposed to which other European nations mate? The pesky Belgians, grrr
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 11, 2024 19:23:12 GMT
As an aside am in Seville atm and what a tolerant and thoroughly European but still very Spanish place it is Twat! There’s English tolerance for you😉
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 11, 2024 19:23:55 GMT
As opposed to which other European nations mate? Why "as opposed to"? Okay then, rather than? Why would those values be an example of British values rather than being an example of European values?
|
|
|
Post by PotterLog on Mar 11, 2024 19:40:26 GMT
Okay then, rather than? Why would those values be an example of British values rather than being an example of European values? I didn't say they would be... some could be both, or indeed two countries could have a tradition of valuing the same thing that *isn't* necessarily "European". I don't think it's a competition.. But for the sake of argument if you take my example of self-sufficiency and stoicism, I think there is much more value placed in that in Britain than there is in Spain or Italy, for example. Conversely they have much stronger values rooted in the family than we tend to in northern Europe.
|
|
|
Post by PotterLog on Mar 11, 2024 19:47:55 GMT
Not sure why this is being over complicated. If you're in a group of let's say 20 foreigners of various nationalities and they ask.. 'Where are you from?'. How do you feel about saying you're English, or from England? To be honest I feel a tiny bit embarrassed. I agree that I shouldn't be, but what we do as a nation reflects on us whether we like it or not. English football fans acting like nobs, English people on holiday acting like chavs, Brexit, Boris, being the US lapdog with regards to politics, etc. Aside from the football, what is there to be proud of recently? Saying that, even though I've only lived in England for a quarter of my life and am by blood less English than other nationalities, I feel fully English and promote breakfast, football, etc. At every opportunity. I think that's a very fair way of looking at it and your 'Where are you from'? test is particularly on point. Just to come back to this, doesn't that contradict what you said on the first page though? (Sorry late to this thread): I just don't understand how you cam be proud or ashamed over something you had absolutely no say in. In foster's circumstance I absolutely think nobody should be proud or ashamed of their nationality, just as nobody should judge them for it. I think the way I would see it is that nobody should be truly proud or ashamed of the fact that they, by accident of birth, are [English, Czech, Mexican etc], but taking pride in *the place* you come from can be healthy. As long as you're taking pride in the right elements
|
|
|
English
Mar 11, 2024 19:49:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 11, 2024 19:49:19 GMT
I think that's a very fair way of looking at it and your 'Where are you from'? test is particularly on point. Just to come back to this, doesn't that contradict what you said on the first page though? (Sorry late to this thread): I just don't understand how you cam be proud or ashamed over something you had absolutely no say in. In foster's circumstance I absolutely think nobody should be proud or ashamed of their nationality, just as nobody should judge them for it. I think the way I would see it is that nobody should be truly proud or ashamed of the fact that they, by accident of birth, are [English, Czech, Mexican etc], but taking pride in *the place* you come from can be healthy. As long as you're taking pride in the right elements Don’t fall into the same trap as Oggy for gods sake
|
|
|
English
Mar 11, 2024 19:50:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 11, 2024 19:50:15 GMT
Okay then, rather than? Why would those values be an example of British values rather than being an example of European values? I didn't say they would be... some could be both, or indeed two countries could have a tradition of valuing the same thing that *isn't* necessarily "European". I don't think it's a competition.. But for the sake of argument if you take my example of self-sufficiency and stoicism, I think there is much more value placed in that in Britain than there is in Spain or Italy, for example. Conversely they have much stronger values rooted in the family than we do in northern Europe. I just don't think there is enough substance there to define them as being 'British' values. European values I can get on board with.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 11, 2024 19:54:03 GMT
I think that's a very fair way of looking at it and your 'Where are you from'? test is particularly on point. Just to come back to this, doesn't that contradict what you said on the first page though? (Sorry late to this thread): I just don't understand how you cam be proud or ashamed over something you had absolutely no say in. In foster's circumstance I absolutely think nobody should be proud or ashamed of their nationality, just as nobody should judge them for it. I think the way I would see it is that nobody should be truly proud or ashamed of the fact that they, by accident of birth, are [English, Czech, Mexican etc], but taking pride in *the place* you come from can be healthy. As long as you're taking pride in the right elements I'm open to being convinced and I thought that Foster's reply was the first one that I had seen that was possibly capable of doing that.
|
|