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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 7, 2024 17:34:34 GMT
I think you may have illustrated just why the Scots and the Welsh have such contempt for the English. The English do use the terms "English" and "British" interchangeably - even the national anthem is the same and an earlier poster made the Freudian slip of calling it the English/British Parliament. England is huge in comparison to Wales and Scotland and politically and culturally dominates what is deemed to be British without even realising what they are doing. As a result the Welsh and Scots see the English as arrogant imperialists. In theory Britain is supposed to be about pooled sovereignty but the reality is the English see Britain as just an extension of itself without even questioning how this looks to others. This in part is why I struggle with identifying as British. I think the English need to rethink who they are and start seeing the Scots and the Welsh as equals in a new relationship based on equality rather dominance by what happens to be the largest nation. I hope to see that happen as part of the process of rehoming the EU - along with wholesale changes to our (to be written) political constitution. it wasn't a freudian slip .the british bit was in brackets . i personally wish that there was an english parliament . the west lothian question issue always creates the potential for controversy.
the closest anyone has got to that is by virtually advocating the break up of england via the creation of devolved local government with mayors and tax raising abilities.
I don't think you could break up England in a political sense because in a political sense it doesn't actually exist. Unlike the Scottish and Welsh and Northern Irish the English are a nation without any of the trappings of being a nation which is probably why lots of people revert to talking about being British when they really should be saying English and pissing off everybody else on the process. There's a strong arguement for regionalization regardless of the nationality issue - government in the UK is the most centralised in Europe and the English have it worse than anyone in that respect as there isn't the equivalent of the as Northern Irish, Scottish and Welsh Assemblies. The midlands and the north will continue to be shafted by the affluent south unless some form genuine regionalisation happens.
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English
Mar 7, 2024 17:43:23 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 7, 2024 17:43:23 GMT
Im British first Welsh second. im not anti any nationality I'm English first and I don't identify as being British even though technically I am British due in part to our fucked up political institutions. I respect the Scots and the Welsh in exactly the same way as I respect the Irish and the French - fellow citizens of Europe. The thing I detest is being defined as a British subject - it's demeaning.
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English
Mar 7, 2024 17:48:41 GMT
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 7, 2024 17:48:41 GMT
Im British first Welsh second. im not anti any nationality I'm English first and I don't identify as being British even though technically I am British due in part to our fucked up political institutions. I respect the Scots and the Welsh in exactly the same way as I respect the Irish and the French - fellow citizens of Europe. The thing I detest is being defined as a British subject - it's demeaning. I doubt you are a British 'subject'. Very few people are these days.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 7, 2024 22:44:06 GMT
I'm English first and I don't identify as being British even though technically I am British due in part to our fucked up political institutions. I respect the Scots and the Welsh in exactly the same way as I respect the Irish and the French - fellow citizens of Europe. The thing I detest is being defined as a British subject - it's demeaning. I doubt you are a British 'subject'. Very few people are these days. You are right in that prior to 1983 I was a British subject but now strictly speaking I am a British citizen. However I am still a subject of the Crown. My relationship to our head of state is still demeaning. It still begs the question as to what it is to be English. There is still something tangible about being Scottish and Welsh but there's very little real that represents being English anymore. It's almost like English identity is being eradicated and we are being shepherded into being British. Maybe the Scots and Welsh have managed to retain something the English have chosen to lose. Personally its something I want to retain even if others are happy to see it vanish.
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English
Mar 7, 2024 23:00:21 GMT
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Mar 7, 2024 23:00:21 GMT
English 1st British 2nd. European LAST This will come as no surprise (in fact I'm quite relieved) that my order would be the complete opposite. Although I would struggle to fit a cigarette paper between European/British, but in an odd twist the older I get the less nationalist I feel.
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English
Mar 7, 2024 23:08:02 GMT
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gawa likes this
Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 7, 2024 23:08:02 GMT
I doubt you are a British 'subject'. Very few people are these days. You are right in that prior to 1983 I was a British subject but now strictly speaking I am a British citizen. However I am still a subject of the Crown. My relationship to our head of state is still demeaning. It still begs the question as to what it is to be English. There is still something tangible about being Scottish and Welsh but there's very little real that represents being English anymore. It's almost like English identity is being eradicated and we are being shepherded into being British. Maybe the Scots and Welsh have managed to retain something the English have chosen to lose. Personally its something I want to retain even if others are happy to see it vanish. I'm taking up Morris dancing.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 7, 2024 23:50:45 GMT
You are right in that prior to 1983 I was a British subject but now strictly speaking I am a British citizen. However I am still a subject of the Crown. My relationship to our head of state is still demeaning. It still begs the question as to what it is to be English. There is still something tangible about being Scottish and Welsh but there's very little real that represents being English anymore. It's almost like English identity is being eradicated and we are being shepherded into being British. Maybe the Scots and Welsh have managed to retain something the English have chosen to lose. Personally its something I want to retain even if others are happy to see it vanish. I'm taking up Morris dancing. Cotswold or Border? Actually you can't beat a bit of cultural appropriation - I have it on good authority that Morris Dancing is probably derived from a traditional Moorish dance form practiced in southern Spain (my partner is a Morris dancer).
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 8, 2024 10:00:04 GMT
I doubt you are a British 'subject'. Very few people are these days. You are right in that prior to 1983 I was a British subject but now strictly speaking I am a British citizen. However I am still a subject of the Crown. My relationship to our head of state is still demeaning. It still begs the question as to what it is to be English. There is still something tangible about being Scottish and Welsh but there's very little real that represents being English anymore. It's almost like English identity is being eradicated and we are being shepherded into being British. Maybe the Scots and Welsh have managed to retain something the English have chosen to lose. Personally its something I want to retain even if others are happy to see it vanish. Have a read of "The English" by Jeremy Paxman. Essentially his thesis is that by being so dominant throughout the 300 years prior to WW2 the English had no need to reflect on identity whilst others did and why it has been lost or so much more difficult to define. It seems to me Identity is often most pronounced amongst minorities - - an 'us' which the English are not - nevertheless the attractiveness - indeed envy - of that identity is why the English often identify regionally - Scousers, Cornish, Geordies etc. The Scots and Welsh you refer to seem far more comfortable in their own skin - the English seem more like a crowd in Wetherspoons on a Friday night - each vying for attention over another. A huge generalisation obviously - but isn't that what national identities are? I don't think we're being shepherded into being British - because no-ones doing the shepherding. For those bothered about their Englishness I just think they need to relax, stop feeling so uptight, angry and threatened all the time, and embrace our sterotypes and eccentricities. We are a lesser power these days - perhaps the sooner we accept that rather than hanging on to times past then the sooner the 'identity' that comes with it will start to flourish.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 8, 2024 11:13:33 GMT
You are right in that prior to 1983 I was a British subject but now strictly speaking I am a British citizen. However I am still a subject of the Crown. My relationship to our head of state is still demeaning. It still begs the question as to what it is to be English. There is still something tangible about being Scottish and Welsh but there's very little real that represents being English anymore. It's almost like English identity is being eradicated and we are being shepherded into being British. Maybe the Scots and Welsh have managed to retain something the English have chosen to lose. Personally its something I want to retain even if others are happy to see it vanish. Have a read of "The English" by Jeremy Paxman. Essentially his thesis is that by being so dominant throughout the 300 years prior to WW2 the English had no need to reflect on identity whilst others did and why it has been lost or so much more difficult to define. It seems to me Identity is often most pronounced amongst minorities - - an 'us' which the English are not - nevertheless the attractiveness - indeed envy - of that identity is why the English often identify regionally - Scousers, Cornish, Geordies etc. The Scots and Welsh you refer to seem far more comfortable in their own skin - the English seem more like a crowd in Wetherspoons on a Friday night - each vying for attention over another. A huge generalisation obviously - but isn't that what national identities are? I don't think we're being shepherded into being British - because no-ones doing the shepherding. For those bothered about their Englishness I just think they need to relax, stop feeling so uptight, angry and threatened all the time, and embrace our sterotypes and eccentricities. We are a lesser power these days - perhaps the sooner we accept that rather than hanging on to times past then the sooner the 'identity' that comes with it will start to flourish. Some interesting points... If anything I think I'm asking for a bit more self awareness - do we feel English, what is it to be English, do we want to be English and probably most important of all do you realise that the conflation of British and English is a major reason the Scots and the Welsh see us as a bunch of arrogant bastards. The reason I feel strongly about this and have given it some thought is the experience I mentioned in an earlier post. When I went through a civil partnership about 4 years ago I asked that my nationality be recorded as English and was told it wasn't an option - I had to register as British. So it seems in some official matters "English" is no longer recognised as a nationality. Isn't that a reasonable reason to feel that my national identity is under threat given that in some quarter it is no longer deemed to exist?
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English
Mar 8, 2024 11:54:00 GMT
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Post by boydcrowder on Mar 8, 2024 11:54:00 GMT
Being proud (or ashamed) of your nationality feels really weird to me.
It's just an accident of birth that you've had no control over.
Surely pride or shame should be reserved for things you have control over. Your actions, achievements, mistakes etc.
It's like being proud of breathing oxygen or being ashamed or having legs. You've not done anything to warrant the pride or shame, it's just the set of circumstances you've found yourself in.
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English
Mar 8, 2024 12:06:54 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 8, 2024 12:06:54 GMT
Have a read of "The English" by Jeremy Paxman. Essentially his thesis is that by being so dominant throughout the 300 years prior to WW2 the English had no need to reflect on identity whilst others did and why it has been lost or so much more difficult to define. It seems to me Identity is often most pronounced amongst minorities - - an 'us' which the English are not - nevertheless the attractiveness - indeed envy - of that identity is why the English often identify regionally - Scousers, Cornish, Geordies etc. The Scots and Welsh you refer to seem far more comfortable in their own skin - the English seem more like a crowd in Wetherspoons on a Friday night - each vying for attention over another. A huge generalisation obviously - but isn't that what national identities are? I don't think we're being shepherded into being British - because no-ones doing the shepherding. For those bothered about their Englishness I just think they need to relax, stop feeling so uptight, angry and threatened all the time, and embrace our sterotypes and eccentricities. We are a lesser power these days - perhaps the sooner we accept that rather than hanging on to times past then the sooner the 'identity' that comes with it will start to flourish. Some interesting points... If anything I think I'm asking for a bit more self awareness - do we feel English, what is it to be English, do we want to be English and probably most important of all do you realise that the conflation of British and English is a major reason the Scots and the Welsh see us as a bunch of arrogant bastards. The reason I feel strongly about this and have given it some thought is the experience I mentioned in an earlier post. When I went through a civil partnership about 4 years ago I asked that my nationality be recorded as English and was told it wasn't an option - I had to register as British. So it seems in some official matters "English" is no longer recognised as a nationality. Isn't that a reasonable reason to feel that my national identity is under threat given that in some quarter it is no longer deemed to exist? Well put. I think that's what I was getting at in OP, But you put it much better than me CB
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English
Mar 8, 2024 12:45:40 GMT
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Post by gawa on Mar 8, 2024 12:45:40 GMT
it wasn't a freudian slip .the british bit was in brackets . i personally wish that there was an english parliament . the west lothian question issue always creates the potential for controversy.
the closest anyone has got to that is by virtually advocating the break up of england via the creation of devolved local government with mayors and tax raising abilities.
I don't think you could break up England in a political sense because in a political sense it doesn't actually exist. Unlike the Scottish and Welsh and Northern Irish the English are a nation without any of the trappings of being a nation which is probably why lots of people revert to talking about being British when they really should be saying English and pissing off everybody else on the process. There's a strong arguement for regionalization regardless of the nationality issue - government in the UK is the most centralised in Europe and the English have it worse than anyone in that respect as there isn't the equivalent of the as Northern Irish, Scottish and Welsh Assemblies. The midlands and the north will continue to be shafted by the affluent south unless some form genuine regionalisation happens. Personally don't think it makes alot of difference. It's like running a home. The adults (westminster) have a 70% majority for England and choose the pocket money. And then the kids (NI, Wales and Scotland) are meant to think they have a say because they have control over their £10 pocket money a week. WOW. Woo hoo!!! I agree that outside of London and the South that England gets shafted but having a devolved government doesn't suddenly mean the rest of us aren't shafted either. It would just be like the councils in England. They'll be hugely under funded and the government will use that to remove any responsibility or accountability. You'll get a budget nowhere near big enough for what you need and when it all fails it will be "party run North East was made bankrupt they can't be trusted with money". All while Westminster spunks the money up the wall rewarding their mates. England has 70% of the population and 53% of the land but somehow has 84% of the politicians in Westminster (and that percentage rises again when you look at the lords). And when you get a mandate based on votes for your devolved election which was ran on getting independence vote. Will you get to vote for independence? Will you fuck.
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English
Mar 8, 2024 15:53:33 GMT
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Post by swampmongrel on Mar 8, 2024 15:53:33 GMT
I don't think you could break up England in a political sense because in a political sense it doesn't actually exist. Unlike the Scottish and Welsh and Northern Irish the English are a nation without any of the trappings of being a nation which is probably why lots of people revert to talking about being British when they really should be saying English and pissing off everybody else on the process. There's a strong arguement for regionalization regardless of the nationality issue - government in the UK is the most centralised in Europe and the English have it worse than anyone in that respect as there isn't the equivalent of the as Northern Irish, Scottish and Welsh Assemblies. The midlands and the north will continue to be shafted by the affluent south unless some form genuine regionalisation happens. Personally don't think it makes alot of difference. It's like running a home. The adults (westminster) have a 70% majority for England and choose the pocket money. And then the kids (NI, Wales and Scotland) are meant to think they have a say because they have control over their £10 pocket money a week. WOW. Woo hoo!!! I agree that outside of London and the South that England gets shafted but having a devolved government doesn't suddenly mean the rest of us aren't shafted either. It would just be like the councils in England. They'll be hugely under funded and the government will use that to remove any responsibility or accountability. You'll get a budget nowhere near big enough for what you need and when it all fails it will be "party run North East was made bankrupt they can't be trusted with money". All while Westminster spunks the money up the wall rewarding their mates. England has 70% of the population and 53% of the land but somehow has 84% of the politicians in Westminster (and that percentage rises again when you look at the lords). And when you get a mandate based on votes for your devolved election which was ran on getting independence vote. Will you get to vote for independence? Will you fuck. England has 84.3% of the population according to the most recent estimates.
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English
Mar 8, 2024 15:57:28 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 8, 2024 15:57:28 GMT
Have a read of "The English" by Jeremy Paxman. Essentially his thesis is that by being so dominant throughout the 300 years prior to WW2 the English had no need to reflect on identity whilst others did and why it has been lost or so much more difficult to define. It seems to me Identity is often most pronounced amongst minorities - - an 'us' which the English are not - nevertheless the attractiveness - indeed envy - of that identity is why the English often identify regionally - Scousers, Cornish, Geordies etc. The Scots and Welsh you refer to seem far more comfortable in their own skin - the English seem more like a crowd in Wetherspoons on a Friday night - each vying for attention over another. A huge generalisation obviously - but isn't that what national identities are? I don't think we're being shepherded into being British - because no-ones doing the shepherding. For those bothered about their Englishness I just think they need to relax, stop feeling so uptight, angry and threatened all the time, and embrace our sterotypes and eccentricities. We are a lesser power these days - perhaps the sooner we accept that rather than hanging on to times past then the sooner the 'identity' that comes with it will start to flourish. Some interesting points... If anything I think I'm asking for a bit more self awareness - do we feel English, what is it to be English, do we want to be English and probably most important of all do you realise that the conflation of British and English is a major reason the Scots and the Welsh see us as a bunch of arrogant bastards. The reason I feel strongly about this and have given it some thought is the experience I mentioned in an earlier post. When I went through a civil partnership about 4 years ago I asked that my nationality be recorded as English and was told it wasn't an option - I had to register as British. So it seems in some official matters "English" is no longer recognised as a nationality. Isn't that a reasonable reason to feel that my national identity is under threat given that in some quarter it is no longer deemed to exist? That's a really interesting post and good on you for asking for your nationality to be recorded as you suggested, even though ultimately, you were unsuccessful. Just my twopenneth for what it's worth ... in the past, whenever I've been asked to tick one of those boxes indicating my ethnicity, I have always ticked White/British and until I read your post, it hasn't remotely ever crossed my mind, that I might want to tick a box that records it as English rather than British. And if that option had have been offered to me, I'm not even sure that I would have even realised that it said English rather than British and I would have simply ticked that one without thinking about it. Having now thought about it for the first time, I'm not sure that I actually care about it one way or the other, I'm not sure what difference it would make to my life. I'm not for a moment suggesting that people SHOULDN'T care about it, of course they should if it matters to them but I really don't think it matters to me in the slightest. I guess some people might find that quite sad and fair do's to them if they do.
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 8, 2024 16:04:19 GMT
These days, if you say you're English you'll be arrested and thrown in jail. I get the impression there are actually people out there who think you are being serious.
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 8, 2024 16:17:39 GMT
Feeling English, as with anything external to yourself is just a concept. There is no such as being English as such, it's just an external category created by others at some time or other and imposed. Being proud or being ashamed are just concepts we invent in our heads. Unnecessary in my view but there you go. But if someone wants to go down that route then that's their life they are playing with. Fair enough. One thing you can say though is, historically, the concept of nationhood has brought a lot of misery and unnecessary suffering and is exploited as a way of manipulating people generally.
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Post by gawa on Mar 8, 2024 16:50:37 GMT
Personally don't think it makes alot of difference. It's like running a home. The adults (westminster) have a 70% majority for England and choose the pocket money. And then the kids (NI, Wales and Scotland) are meant to think they have a say because they have control over their £10 pocket money a week. WOW. Woo hoo!!! I agree that outside of London and the South that England gets shafted but having a devolved government doesn't suddenly mean the rest of us aren't shafted either. It would just be like the councils in England. They'll be hugely under funded and the government will use that to remove any responsibility or accountability. You'll get a budget nowhere near big enough for what you need and when it all fails it will be "party run North East was made bankrupt they can't be trusted with money". All while Westminster spunks the money up the wall rewarding their mates. England has 70% of the population and 53% of the land but somehow has 84% of the politicians in Westminster (and that percentage rises again when you look at the lords). And when you get a mandate based on votes for your devolved election which was ran on getting independence vote. Will you get to vote for independence? Will you fuck. England has 84.3% of the population according to the most recent estimates. You are right not sure how I got to 70% obviously my maths is wrong. This is the third incorrect thing I've said in 24 hours. King of fake news here. I'll put my tail between my legs and stand corrected once more. Still regional devolution won't make a difference because most major change still needs to go through Westminster. You ask the majority of people in NI/Wales/Scotland who they blame for the last 15 years and it's Westminster. Our politicians are shit in NI too but their hands are also very much tied with what they can do due to Westminster controlling the strings.
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English
Mar 8, 2024 18:15:11 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 8, 2024 18:15:11 GMT
An interesting perspective
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 8, 2024 18:32:49 GMT
What I like about this thread is that we have been able to express views and opinions without the necessity to argue about it..... so thanks for that and to whoever started it.
Sometimes I just want to hear/ understand different viewpoints , without trying to argue that one is necessarily right or wrong. That isn't really in the equation.
I get the point about Nation states and that they can be/ are a source of conflict. But their existence is the world we are born into....and citizenship and identity does seem to matter...Ukrainian, Israeli, Irish. Perhaps it shouldn't, but it does. I think I used the word " proud" incorrectly. It seems to me that where we are born does matter....ie Stoke fans, or Sunderland fans or Man utd fans. Some of us have location in our usernames. How far we should take it is a personal choice I guess.....and how far our personal family history matters. I never met my Grandad, but he was a Kelly born in the( now) Republic of Ireland. That is important to me. Every country/ nation state has a different history. England has a particularly " intense" one , influence beyond our station. It seems to me thstt ( as others have said far better than I can) this has complicated " our" ability to know what we mean by being English.....not unique to England....it seems that the Irish, Welsh, Scottish and even the French are more fiercely and comfortably able to acknowledge their nationhood.... I think ( as others have said) have simply ignored the difference between being English and British , until it becomes ( as Prestwich said ) to sport.
The Home Internationals used to be brilliant!!! Law , Charlton , Best, Davies...
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Post by iancransonsknees on Mar 8, 2024 18:48:37 GMT
What I like about this thread is that we have been able to express views and opinions without the necessity to argue about it..... so thanks for that and to whoever started it. Sometimes I just want to hear/ understand different viewpoints , without trying to argue that one is necessarily right or wrong. That isn't really in the equation. I get the point about Nation states and that they can be/ are a source of conflict. But their existence is the world we are born into....and citizenship and identity does seem to matter...Ukrainian, Israeli, Irish. Perhaps it shouldn't, but it does. I think I used the word " proud" incorrectly. It seems to me that where we are born does matter....ie Stoke fans, or Sunderland fans or Man utd fans. Some of us have location in our usernames. How far we should take it is a personal choice I guess.....and how far our personal family history matters. I never met my Grandad, but he was a Kelly born in the( now) Republic of Ireland. That is important to me. Every country/ nation state has a different history. England has a particularly " intense" one , influence beyond our station. It seems to me thstt ( as others have said far better than I can) this has complicated " our" ability to know what we mean by being English.....not unique to England....it seems that the Irish, Welsh, Scottish and even the French are more fiercely and comfortably able to acknowledge their nationhood.... I think ( as others have said) have simply ignored the difference between being English and British , until it becomes ( as Prestwich said ) to sport. The Home Internationals used to be brilliant!!! Law , Charlton , Best, Davies... Football is an interesting question. Many of those who revile the English will 'follow' an English team, rabidly in some cases. It's almost a form of cultural appropriation, although I think we're happier to export our culture to others and appreciate their take on it also. All in all it's a ridiculous thing to get worked up over.
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Post by felonious on Mar 8, 2024 18:50:38 GMT
England has 84.3% of the population according to the most recent estimates. You are right not sure how I got to 70% obviously my maths is wrong. This is the third incorrect thing I've said in 24 hours. King of fake news here. I'll put my tail between my legs and stand corrected once more. Still regional devolution won't make a difference because most major change still needs to go through Westminster. You ask the majority of people in NI/Wales/Scotland who they blame for the last 15 years and it's Westminster. Our politicians are shit in NI too but their hands are also very much tied with what they can do due to Westminster controlling the strings. Aren't NI getting good at squeezing extra cash out of party central. Wasn't it an extra billion for the confidence and supply agreement and aren't we looking at around another £3.3 billion to bring the two sets of fuckwits together for now until the next fall out. Just think what those sorts of figures could do for greater Stoke On Trent and it's surrounding area.
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Post by georgeberrysafro on Mar 8, 2024 19:16:51 GMT
I’ve always been a proud Englishman but the country itself is unrecognisable from even ten years ago. I nearly hate it in fact What are the biggest changes/issues for you that make you hate it now compared to 10 years ago? Same to anyone else that has said the same - I saw a few. Just curious (I'm nearly 20 years living outside the UK and I haven't been back since 2017).
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Post by georgeberrysafro on Mar 8, 2024 19:18:57 GMT
An interesting perspective From a guy that's officially charged with multiple crimes, including rape and human trafficking, along with two other people, and they will face trial in Romania. Not even going to click on the link.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 8, 2024 19:22:39 GMT
I’ve always been a proud Englishman but the country itself is unrecognisable from even ten years ago. I nearly hate it in fact What are the biggest changes/issues for you that make you hate it now compared to 10 years ago? Same to anyone else that has said the same - I saw a few. Just curious (I'm nearly 20 years living outside the UK and I haven't been back since 2017). Wokery, immigration, violent crime, filthy streets, the demise of the high street, cost of living, respectfulness. Loads of stuff. And the biggest, social media.
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English
Mar 8, 2024 19:32:46 GMT
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Post by lordb on Mar 8, 2024 19:32:46 GMT
What are the biggest changes/issues for you that make you hate it now compared to 10 years ago? Same to anyone else that has said the same - I saw a few. Just curious (I'm nearly 20 years living outside the UK and I haven't been back since 2017). Wokery, immigration, violent crime, filthy streets, the demise of the high street, cost of living, respectfulness. Loads of stuff. And the biggest, social media. Is any of that different to 2014?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 8, 2024 19:41:08 GMT
I’ve always been a proud Englishman but the country itself is unrecognisable from even ten years ago. I nearly hate it in fact What are the biggest changes/issues for you that make you hate it now compared to 10 years ago? Same to anyone else that has said the same - I saw a few. Just curious (I'm nearly 20 years living outside the UK and I haven't been back since 2017). A good question - The total mess that our public services are in - Feeling that we have to apologise for things that took place 100s of years ago. - Wanting to look for the bad in great historical figures and forget the good they did. - Editing or banning programmes from years ago. Either watch them or don’t. Give people the choice. - The tragic increase in young people killing each other. - Different cultures not being able to get on and being accommodating of each other. - The loss of the office workplace.
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English
Mar 8, 2024 19:50:46 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 8, 2024 19:50:46 GMT
Wokery, immigration, violent crime, filthy streets, the demise of the high street, cost of living, respectfulness. Loads of stuff. And the biggest, social media. Is any of that different to 2014? All of them
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English
Mar 8, 2024 20:01:40 GMT
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Post by lordb on Mar 8, 2024 20:01:40 GMT
Is any of that different to 2014? All of them Don’t think so myself
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 8, 2024 20:02:11 GMT
For me, in most things I'm not sure it's about pride. It's more about identity. I identify myself as the following:
1) I'm a Stokie. 2) I'm English in home nations sport. 3) I'm UK in international sport. 4) I'm European in the world order.
OS.
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English
Mar 8, 2024 20:12:27 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 8, 2024 20:12:27 GMT
Then you’ve got your head in the sand I’m afraid mate
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