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English
Mar 9, 2024 8:34:37 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 9, 2024 8:34:37 GMT
Some interesting points... If anything I think I'm asking for a bit more self awareness - do we feel English, what is it to be English, do we want to be English and probably most important of all do you realise that the conflation of British and English is a major reason the Scots and the Welsh see us as a bunch of arrogant bastards. The reason I feel strongly about this and have given it some thought is the experience I mentioned in an earlier post. When I went through a civil partnership about 4 years ago I asked that my nationality be recorded as English and was told it wasn't an option - I had to register as British. So it seems in some official matters "English" is no longer recognised as a nationality. Isn't that a reasonable reason to feel that my national identity is under threat given that in some quarter it is no longer deemed to exist? That's a really interesting post and good on you for asking for your nationality to be recorded as you suggested, even though ultimately, you were unsuccessful. Just my twopenneth for what it's worth ... in the past, whenever I've been asked to tick one of those boxes indicating my ethnicity, I have always ticked White/British and until I read your post, it hasn't remotely ever crossed my mind, that I might want to tick a box that records it as English rather than British. And if that option had have been offered to me, I'm not even sure that I would have even realised that it said English rather than British and I would have simply ticked that one without thinking about it. Having now thought about it for the first time, I'm not sure that I actually care about it one way or the other, I'm not sure what difference it would make to my life. I'm not for a moment suggesting that people SHOULDN'T care about it, of course they should if it matters to them but I really don't think it matters to me in the slightest. I guess some people might find that quite sad and fair do's to them if they do. I'm not saying you or others should identify as English - if you identify as British that's fine. I'm just saying I would like the right to identify as English and that is becoming increasingly difficult - to the extent where its open to question as to whether England exists in any meaningful senses. I think a problem with the English identifying as British is that it's a source of conflict with the Scots and the Welsh - it's symptomatic of the English assuming to decide things on behalf of the Scots and Welsh and dominating the union. The ambiguity of the British and English national anthem being the same is just one illustration of the lopsided relationship.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 9, 2024 8:49:55 GMT
England has 84.3% of the population according to the most recent estimates. You are right not sure how I got to 70% obviously my maths is wrong. This is the third incorrect thing I've said in 24 hours. King of fake news here. I'll put my tail between my legs and stand corrected once more. Still regional devolution won't make a difference because most major change still needs to go through Westminster. You ask the majority of people in NI/Wales/Scotland who they blame for the last 15 years and it's Westminster. Our politicians are shit in NI too but their hands are also very much tied with what they can do due to Westminster controlling the strings. I think you are conflating how devolution has been implemented with how devolution could be implemented. I agree the current arrangements are a sham and the real power resides in (English dominated) Westminster. The English regions are in an even worse situation than NI, Scotland and Wales - we don't even have sham devolution and everything of significance is decided in London. It doesn't have to that way - In fact it could be turned on it's head with regional assemblies having tax raising powers and discretion over all spending relevant to the locality (health, education, policing, infrastructure) and central government shrunk to handle matters such as foreign policy and defence. The fact that the current arrangements are shit makes me want to change them - just accepting they are shit and giving up is exactly what those pulling the strings want.
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English
Mar 9, 2024 8:53:06 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 9, 2024 8:53:06 GMT
What are the biggest changes/issues for you that make you hate it now compared to 10 years ago? Same to anyone else that has said the same - I saw a few. Just curious (I'm nearly 20 years living outside the UK and I haven't been back since 2017). A good question - The total mess that our public services are in - Feeling that we have to apologise for things that took place 100s of years ago. - Wanting to look for the bad in great historical figures and forget the good they did. - Editing or banning programmes from years ago. Either watch them or don’t. Give people the choice. - The tragic increase in young people killing each other. - Different cultures not being able to get on and being accommodating of each other. - The loss of the office workplace. Isn't that symptomatic of becoming a crabby, miserable old reactionary fart rather than a matter of national identity? Its probably hormonal.
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English
Mar 9, 2024 8:58:33 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 9, 2024 8:58:33 GMT
You are right not sure how I got to 70% obviously my maths is wrong. This is the third incorrect thing I've said in 24 hours. King of fake news here. I'll put my tail between my legs and stand corrected once more. Still regional devolution won't make a difference because most major change still needs to go through Westminster. You ask the majority of people in NI/Wales/Scotland who they blame for the last 15 years and it's Westminster. Our politicians are shit in NI too but their hands are also very much tied with what they can do due to Westminster controlling the strings. I think you are conflating how devolution has been implemented with how devolution could be implemented. I agree the current arrangements are a sham and the real power resides in (English dominated) Westminster. The English regions are in an even worse situation than NI, Scotland and Wales - we don't even have sham devolution and everything of significance is decided in London. It doesn't have to that way - In fact it could be turned on it's head with regional assemblies having tax raising powers and discretion over all spending relevant to the locality (health, education, policing, infrastructure) and central government shrunk to handle matters such as foreign policy and defence. The fact that the current arrangements are shit makes me want to change them - just accepting they are shit and giving up is exactly what those pulling the strings want. Can you see Northern Ireland and Scotland becoming independent ( or , in the case of NI joining Ireland) within 30 years? Don't the regional " Parliaments" make this more likely , if not inevitable?
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English
Mar 9, 2024 10:19:18 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 9, 2024 10:19:18 GMT
A good question - The total mess that our public services are in - Feeling that we have to apologise for things that took place 100s of years ago. - Wanting to look for the bad in great historical figures and forget the good they did. - Editing or banning programmes from years ago. Either watch them or don’t. Give people the choice. - The tragic increase in young people killing each other. - Different cultures not being able to get on and being accommodating of each other. - The loss of the office workplace. Isn't that symptomatic of becoming a crabby, miserable old reactionary fart rather than a matter of national identity? Its probably hormonal. Maybe so or perhaps it’s someone that has the experience of living in better times. Your response made me laugh though having seen some of your previous posts
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 9, 2024 11:24:08 GMT
Interesting read.
Being a student of history and the bible, I would put it to you that the best of times is now. But not for everybody. Many on this thread are suggesting things are not as good as a few years/decades ago, but do you want to go back to the times of Bernard Manning humour, Gary Glitter, Jimmy Saville etc. We forget what was "bad" then and only remember the "good times". The present young generation will do the same in 30-50 years time.
We reap what we sow - and if we choose to elect the leaders we have, we get what we asked for, but maybe don't deserve.
What is English anyway? When did we last have a truly English monarch? Charles mother was half Scottish and father was ?
Things are far from perfect but better than most places, it's up to us all to make it better. Being very highly self critical is a good start.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 9, 2024 11:28:39 GMT
You can get thrown in jail for asking that these days.
😁😁
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Post by cvillestokie on Mar 9, 2024 12:15:02 GMT
What are the biggest changes/issues for you that make you hate it now compared to 10 years ago? Same to anyone else that has said the same - I saw a few. Just curious (I'm nearly 20 years living outside the UK and I haven't been back since 2017). A good question - The total mess that our public services are in - Feeling that we have to apologise for things that took place 100s of years ago. - Wanting to look for the bad in great historical figures and forget the good they did. - Editing or banning programmes from years ago. Either watch them or don’t. Give people the choice. - The tragic increase in young people killing each other. - Different cultures not being able to get on and being accommodating of each other. - The loss of the office workplace. I’m personally very happy that I don’t need to go physically into work as often. I far prefer the company of my dogs than that of my colleagues.
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English
Mar 9, 2024 12:37:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 9, 2024 12:37:47 GMT
A good question - The total mess that our public services are in - Feeling that we have to apologise for things that took place 100s of years ago. - Wanting to look for the bad in great historical figures and forget the good they did. - Editing or banning programmes from years ago. Either watch them or don’t. Give people the choice. - The tragic increase in young people killing each other. - Different cultures not being able to get on and being accommodating of each other. - The loss of the office workplace. I’m personally very happy that I don’t need to go physically into work as often. I far prefer the company of my dogs than that of my colleagues. I guess it’s a personal thing I just love the office environment and the friendships that develop from it. Working with young people it’s clear how being at home the best part of 2 years affected their development re relationships and behaviour / interaction.
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English
Mar 9, 2024 13:08:18 GMT
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Post by lordb on Mar 9, 2024 13:08:18 GMT
Then you’ve got your head in the sand I’m afraid mate Nah Not buying the idea that 2014 was a halcyon era Everything you describe was happening then Your just getting old Give it 20 years and there will be 35 year old saying how much better and just this country was in 2024 Not buying it
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 9, 2024 13:21:34 GMT
Then you’ve got your head in the sand I’m afraid mate Nah Not buying the idea that 2014 was a halcyon era Everything you describe was happening then Your just getting old Give it 20 years and there will be 35 year old saying how much better and just this country was in 2024 Not buying it I’m saying it’s got worse, and it has. I didn’t mention our crumbling NHS, failing public transport services, disgusting road conditions etc. like I said the list goes on
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English
Mar 9, 2024 13:25:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 9, 2024 13:25:34 GMT
Interesting read. Being a student of history and the bible, I would put it to you that the best of times is now. But not for everybody. Many on this thread are suggesting things are not as good as a few years/decades ago, but do you want to go back to the times of Bernard Manning humour, Gary Glitter, Jimmy Saville etc. We forget what was "bad" then and only remember the "good times". The present young generation will do the same in 30-50 years time. We reap what we sow - and if we choose to elect the leaders we have, we get what we asked for, but maybe don't deserve. What is English anyway? When did we last have a truly English monarch? Charles mother was half Scottish and father was ? Things are far from perfect but better than most places, it's up to us all to make it better. Being very highly self critical is a good start. "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair"
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English
Mar 9, 2024 14:03:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by lordb on Mar 9, 2024 14:03:09 GMT
Nah Not buying the idea that 2014 was a halcyon era Everything you describe was happening then Your just getting old Give it 20 years and there will be 35 year old saying how much better and just this country was in 2024 Not buying it I’m saying it’s got worse, and it has. I didn’t mention our crumbling NHS, failing public transport services, disgusting road conditions etc. like I said the list goes on Worse, yes it has, although I don't agree with all oy your list that's different to saying 2014 wasn't shit
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English
Mar 9, 2024 14:08:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 9, 2024 14:08:02 GMT
I’m saying it’s got worse, and it has. I didn’t mention our crumbling NHS, failing public transport services, disgusting road conditions etc. like I said the list goes on Worse, yes it has, although I don't agree with all oy your list that's different to saying 2014 wasn't shit You’re painting yourself into a corner
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English
Mar 9, 2024 14:44:10 GMT
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Post by gawa on Mar 9, 2024 14:44:10 GMT
You are right not sure how I got to 70% obviously my maths is wrong. This is the third incorrect thing I've said in 24 hours. King of fake news here. I'll put my tail between my legs and stand corrected once more. Still regional devolution won't make a difference because most major change still needs to go through Westminster. You ask the majority of people in NI/Wales/Scotland who they blame for the last 15 years and it's Westminster. Our politicians are shit in NI too but their hands are also very much tied with what they can do due to Westminster controlling the strings. Aren't NI getting good at squeezing extra cash out of party central. Wasn't it an extra billion for the confidence and supply agreement and aren't we looking at around another £3.3 billion to bring the two sets of fuckwits together for now until the next fall out. Just think what those sorts of figures could do for greater Stoke On Trent and it's surrounding area. Stoke on trent isn't a country 🤣 and it got more money for levelling up than the whole of Northern Ireland. As for the funding its based of the barnett formula. You are right that the DUP got extra money to prop up the conservstive party in the house of commons. A bribe from the English to the dinosaur Unionist party to cling onto power - rightfully criticised both in the commons and in NI.
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English
Mar 9, 2024 14:50:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Mar 9, 2024 14:50:54 GMT
You are right not sure how I got to 70% obviously my maths is wrong. This is the third incorrect thing I've said in 24 hours. King of fake news here. I'll put my tail between my legs and stand corrected once more. Still regional devolution won't make a difference because most major change still needs to go through Westminster. You ask the majority of people in NI/Wales/Scotland who they blame for the last 15 years and it's Westminster. Our politicians are shit in NI too but their hands are also very much tied with what they can do due to Westminster controlling the strings. I think you are conflating how devolution has been implemented with how devolution could be implemented. I agree the current arrangements are a sham and the real power resides in (English dominated) Westminster. The English regions are in an even worse situation than NI, Scotland and Wales - we don't even have sham devolution and everything of significance is decided in London. It doesn't have to that way - In fact it could be turned on it's head with regional assemblies having tax raising powers and discretion over all spending relevant to the locality (health, education, policing, infrastructure) and central government shrunk to handle matters such as foreign policy and defence. The fact that the current arrangements are shit makes me want to change them - just accepting they are shit and giving up is exactly what those pulling the strings want. What exactly makes the English regions worse aside from not having a Mickey mouse government? I'd gladly swap our NHS or transport for any regions in England.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 9, 2024 18:52:43 GMT
Interesting read. Being a student of history and the bible, I would put it to you that the best of times is now. But not for everybody. Many on this thread are suggesting things are not as good as a few years/decades ago, but do you want to go back to the times of Bernard Manning humour, Gary Glitter, Jimmy Saville etc. We forget what was "bad" then and only remember the "good times". The present young generation will do the same in 30-50 years time. We reap what we sow - and if we choose to elect the leaders we have, we get what we asked for, but maybe don't deserve. What is English anyway? When did we last have a truly English monarch? Charles mother was half Scottish and father was ? Things are far from perfect but better than most places, it's up to us all to make it better. Being very highly self critical is a good start. "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair" Twas ever thus. A couple of weeks ago I was upset at Stoke losing , followed by the England Rugby team. Today was another day. In the 1980s the UK enjoyed its highest rate of investment and economic growth since WWII. There was "Loads of money". But not if you were on the wrong end of Thatcher's Britain!
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Post by felonious on Mar 9, 2024 18:53:39 GMT
Aren't NI getting good at squeezing extra cash out of party central. Wasn't it an extra billion for the confidence and supply agreement and aren't we looking at around another £3.3 billion to bring the two sets of fuckwits together for now until the next fall out. Just think what those sorts of figures could do for greater Stoke On Trent and it's surrounding area. Stoke on trent isn't a country 🤣 and it got more money for levelling up than the whole of Northern Ireland. As for the funding its based of the barnett formula. You are right that the DUP got extra money to prop up the conservstive party in the house of commons. A bribe from the English to the dinosaur Unionist party to cling onto power - rightfully criticised both in the commons and in NI. Both the main parties in NI are as bad as each other God only knows why people vote for them. The Barnett formula you say so despite your whingeing NI is actually getting a good deal from London Out of interest and to save me looking it up since you think it's significant how many billions did Stoke On Trent get?
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English
Mar 9, 2024 19:51:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by gawa on Mar 9, 2024 19:51:03 GMT
Stoke on trent isn't a country 🤣 and it got more money for levelling up than the whole of Northern Ireland. As for the funding its based of the barnett formula. You are right that the DUP got extra money to prop up the conservstive party in the house of commons. A bribe from the English to the dinosaur Unionist party to cling onto power - rightfully criticised both in the commons and in NI. Both the main parties in NI are as bad as each other God only knows why people vote for them. The Barnett formula you say so despite your whingeing NI is actually getting a good deal from London Out of interest and to save me looking it up since you think it's significant how many billions did Stoke On Trent get? I hope its not billions given its 10% of our population. I think you'll struggle to work out how much Stoke spends on benefits, hospitals, police, public transport etc.. but if you've a means feel free. Don't forget to include the levelling up and hs2 money either. Not just the funding from when it was cancelled but the proportion of the spend wasted so far attributed to Stoke. A bit like our "cash for ash" blunders cost our budgets too. As for the NI parties you're right they're a load of shit. I dislike some of them more than Westminster lot but that's tribalism for you. The barnett formula has a load of problems and isn't the answer at all. Very much based solely on population rather than recognising the different needs of different areas. So despite Scotland being 60% the size of England, it gets 10% of the spend for transport. Same goes for age of population. Wales average age is much older than rest of UK but nhs spending doesn't take this into account. Also I'm not arguing against the north of England needing more spending. My in laws are from the north east which gets the worst regional spending in the uk. I'm just pointing out that i dont think devolved powers would really change alot.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 9, 2024 21:24:38 GMT
I think you are conflating how devolution has been implemented with how devolution could be implemented. I agree the current arrangements are a sham and the real power resides in (English dominated) Westminster. The English regions are in an even worse situation than NI, Scotland and Wales - we don't even have sham devolution and everything of significance is decided in London. It doesn't have to that way - In fact it could be turned on it's head with regional assemblies having tax raising powers and discretion over all spending relevant to the locality (health, education, policing, infrastructure) and central government shrunk to handle matters such as foreign policy and defence. The fact that the current arrangements are shit makes me want to change them - just accepting they are shit and giving up is exactly what those pulling the strings want. Can you see Northern Ireland and Scotland becoming independent ( or , in the case of NI joining Ireland) within 30 years? Don't the regional " Parliaments" make this more likely , if not inevitable? In the case of NI the assembly was part of a peace deal that included the agreement that NI would reunify with Ireland if the people of NI voted for it. So yes it does make it more likely (and rightly so because the alternative was awful) and personally I think it is inevitable. I'm the case of Scotland the assembly was set up specifically to appease people who wanted Scottish Independence and it has been sufficient to convince enough people not to vote for independence. So no it hasn't made it more likely and if the Scottish Assembly is given more authority then it might prent it happening. Personally I think NI becoming part of Ireland is inevitable and when we rejoin the EU it doesn't make much difference and it won't matter whether Scotland is independent either. The bigger issue for me is providing the English regions with greater political autonomy. As I've said I don't really identify as British so it really isn't a big deal for me but I get that for people who do identify as British unification and independence is a big deal. However getting rid of the assemblies is a bad idea in terms of preventing it - it will just piss people off and accelerate the process.
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Post by Waggy on Mar 9, 2024 21:48:04 GMT
Very proud
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English
Mar 10, 2024 15:22:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 10, 2024 15:22:24 GMT
Both the main parties in NI are as bad as each other God only knows why people vote for them. The Barnett formula you say so despite your whingeing NI is actually getting a good deal from London Out of interest and to save me looking it up since you think it's significant how many billions did Stoke On Trent get? I hope its not billions given its 10% of our population. I think you'll struggle to work out how much Stoke spends on benefits, hospitals, police, public transport etc.. but if you've a means feel free. Don't forget to include the levelling up and hs2 money either. Not just the funding from when it was cancelled but the proportion of the spend wasted so far attributed to Stoke. A bit like our "cash for ash" blunders cost our budgets too. As for the NI parties you're right they're a load of shit. I dislike some of them more than Westminster lot but that's tribalism for you. The barnett formula has a load of problems and isn't the answer at all. Very much based solely on population rather than recognising the different needs of different areas. So despite Scotland being 60% the size of England, it gets 10% of the spend for transport. Same goes for age of population. Wales average age is much older than rest of UK but nhs spending doesn't take this into account. Also I'm not arguing against the north of England needing more spending. My in laws are from the north east which gets the worst regional spending in the uk. I'm just pointing out that i dont think devolved powers would really change alot. Devolved powers means little if not much power is devolved - which is what we have at the moment. Devolve enough power (including tax raising power and control over all local decisions) and it would make a huge difference. Not devolving more power or removing the little there is will make regional inequalities even worse than they are at the moment. The Tories levelling up agenda was supposed to achieve what devolved power was meant to achieve and it has proved to be a complete sham. Keep power in Westminster and any promise from Westminster that Regional inequality will be addressed will be levelling up 2 - return of the con trick.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 10, 2024 16:28:22 GMT
I hope its not billions given its 10% of our population. I think you'll struggle to work out how much Stoke spends on benefits, hospitals, police, public transport etc.. but if you've a means feel free. Don't forget to include the levelling up and hs2 money either. Not just the funding from when it was cancelled but the proportion of the spend wasted so far attributed to Stoke. A bit like our "cash for ash" blunders cost our budgets too. As for the NI parties you're right they're a load of shit. I dislike some of them more than Westminster lot but that's tribalism for you. The barnett formula has a load of problems and isn't the answer at all. Very much based solely on population rather than recognising the different needs of different areas. So despite Scotland being 60% the size of England, it gets 10% of the spend for transport. Same goes for age of population. Wales average age is much older than rest of UK but nhs spending doesn't take this into account. Also I'm not arguing against the north of England needing more spending. My in laws are from the north east which gets the worst regional spending in the uk. I'm just pointing out that i dont think devolved powers would really change alot. Devolved powers means little if not much power is devolved - which is what we have at the moment. Devolve enough power (including tax raising power and control over all local decisions) and it would make a huge difference. Not devolving more power or removing the little there is will make regional inequalities even worse than they are at the moment. The Tories levelling up agenda was supposed to achieve what devolved power was meant to achieve and it has proved to be a complete sham. Keep power in Westminster and any promise from Westminster that Regional inequality will be addressed will be levelling up 2 - return of the con trick. Totally agree its a form of "No Taxation without Representation " Gawa correctly pointed out the flaws in the Barnett formula and not wishing to turn it into a Brexit thread but the loss of funding for Structural Projects in the Devolved Nations is huge presumably similar in England but more difficult to access figures. EIB provided on average £6Bn every year over the course of 46 years membership. Th UKIB replacement barely one third of this and its remit is much less per Project and more risk averse Why would Westminster invest Capital Funds in Devolved Nations when it barely get a Vote never mind an MP. Rishi outlined Conservative Policy in a Video taken of him speaking to Constituents in Tunbridge Wells. Levelling up Funding is like a Post Code Lottery which surprise surprise if you have a Conservative MP you have a chance of a winning ticket. Reduction in Capital Budget to plug the Current Account Deficit strikes at the heart of anemic growth and static productivity.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 11, 2024 16:35:37 GMT
It's not something I ever give much thought too. I often see the phrase "English/British values" and I honestly have no idea what it means? Most people have shared values the world over, the majority of people are kind and decent and just want to work hard and provide for their family. The second part of that may be arguably true, but not the first. Different nations (cultures, really) can have wildly different social and political values beyond the fundamentals of work and family. We could take British values to mean, let's say: tolerance, self-reliance, stoicism, democracy, freedom of (and from) religion. You can argue the toss on whether or not they represent British values but if one considers that they do, and you can certainly make an argument for them, then it's valid to feel some sense of individual pride in perpetuating and upholding them, regardless of the accident of one's birth. There may also be elements of one's culture which induce some sense of shame, I don't think it's incompatible to feel both things at the same time. Overall though I think the UK has social and cultural values which are positive, worth protecting and upholding, and can (or at least should) be held up as an example to the world.
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Post by foster on Mar 11, 2024 17:25:41 GMT
Not sure why this is being over complicated.
If you're in a group of let's say 20 foreigners of various nationalities and they ask..
'Where are you from?'.
How do you feel about saying you're English, or from England?
To be honest I feel a tiny bit embarrassed. I agree that I shouldn't be, but what we do as a nation reflects on us whether we like it or not.
English football fans acting like nobs, English people on holiday acting like chavs, Brexit, Boris, being the US lapdog with regards to politics, etc.
Aside from the football, what is there to be proud of recently?
Saying that, even though I've only lived in England for a quarter of my life and am by blood less English than other nationalities, I feel fully English and promote breakfast, football, etc. At every opportunity.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 11, 2024 19:07:35 GMT
Not sure why this is being over complicated. If you're in a group of let's say 20 foreigners of various nationalities and they ask.. 'Where are you from?'. How do you feel about saying you're English, or from England? To be honest I feel a tiny bit embarrassed. I agree that I shouldn't be, but what we do as a nation reflects on us whether we like it or not. English football fans acting like nobs, English people on holiday acting like chavs, Brexit, Boris, being the US lapdog with regards to politics, etc. Aside from the football, what is there to be proud of recently? Saying that, even though I've only lived in England for a quarter of my life and am by blood less English than other nationalities, I feel fully English and promote breakfast, football, etc. At every opportunity. I think that's a very fair way of looking at it and your 'Where are you from'? test is particularly on point.
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English
Mar 11, 2024 19:15:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 11, 2024 19:15:30 GMT
It's not something I ever give much thought too. I often see the phrase "English/British values" and I honestly have no idea what it means? Most people have shared values the world over, the majority of people are kind and decent and just want to work hard and provide for their family. We could take British values to mean, let's say: tolerance, self-reliance, stoicism, democracy, freedom of (and from) religion. As opposed to which other European nations mate?
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English
Mar 11, 2024 19:16:05 GMT
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Post by lordb on Mar 11, 2024 19:16:05 GMT
We could take British values to mean, let's say: tolerance, self-reliance, stoicism, democracy, freedom of (and from) religion. As opposed to which other European nations mate? The pesky Belgians, grrr
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English
Mar 11, 2024 19:18:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 11, 2024 19:18:18 GMT
As opposed to which other European nations mate? The pesky Belgians, grrr 😁
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Post by lordb on Mar 11, 2024 19:19:51 GMT
As an aside am in Seville atm and what a tolerant and thoroughly European but still very Spanish place it is
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