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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 29, 2024 10:00:06 GMT
^THIS^ Comical, Schumacher basically sat in the corner with a colouring book why the grown ups talk about football. “You can have a freddo when the adults have finished talking Steven, now draw me a nice picture” So why didn’t Macari do the same when Overson delivered his speech? We get you don’t like him but cmon eh stop seeing stuff that just isn’t there Understood. OK so Schuey isnt undermined in any way by JW and his approach, you know this.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 29, 2024 10:05:17 GMT
So why didn’t Macari do the same when Overson delivered his speech? We get you don’t like him but cmon eh stop seeing stuff that just isn’t there Understood. OK so Schuey isnt undermined in any way by JW and his approach, you know this. Nobody really knows anything do they. So we can either sit here criticising absolutely everything they do and how they do it. Or we can try and get on board be positive and hope they sort it out. We'll know in 9-12 games and can all start having a big row again 😆
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Post by mamathestriker on Feb 29, 2024 10:07:38 GMT
We'll see if it works.
Brilliant if it does.
Actions always speak louder though, and so often we've been let down this last 7 years. What happens on the pitch is the only thing that matters.
Let's hope we get a reaction.
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Post by knype on Feb 29, 2024 10:10:33 GMT
So why didn’t Macari do the same when Overson delivered his speech? We get you don’t like him but cmon eh stop seeing stuff that just isn’t there Understood. OK so Schuey isnt undermined in any way by JW and his approach, you know this. Why would he be?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 29, 2024 10:24:50 GMT
If I was Schumacher and Walters managed to galvanise the players to play their hearts out till the end of the season and get results which saved my job I would be highly delighted. Have some people on here not heard of the concept of working together? I don't think people understand this new structure and have said it for quite some time now. I can't remember many, if any of these Technical Director types in the game that come down to the shop floor, arrange meetings with players around motivational issues and then openly admit it in a public domain. The way I see it working is they speak from an overarching position and talk vertically about the Academy to the first team and laterally from the recruitment thru analytics to the Sport Science team and yes, work WITH the manager to support him through those channels, make process changes and enhancements that make his job easier in every facet of his job. A higher level negotiator and facilitator that creates a pathway between the manager and the owners and provides updates to the owners on how their vision of a club is being implemented and managed. Like you say, working together as a team. What Walters has done here isn't that though, but I get it. People are desperate, the club is desperate and they are all throwing muck at the wall and hoping it sticks. Fans are desperate for anything to work and will happy clap behind it. Totally understand that. It's quite clearly chaos. Maybe it works, sometimes chaos does work. In every organisation I have worked someone at the very top has given some sort of annual address (either in person or via a video recording) and typically personally announced any really major piece of news relating to the future of the company and often those addresses include some sort of rallying cry. This is what SJW has done here - it's nothing out of the ordinary and there is nothing in it that undermines the Schumacher's authority. Anything to do with running the organization on a day to day basis would be done through the management structures as you say. If SJW were to swan in and take a training session or make suggestions for the starting 11 he would be undermining the Head Coach but he hasn't done that.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 29, 2024 10:27:38 GMT
I don't think people understand this new structure and have said it for quite some time now. I can't remember many, if any of these Technical Director types in the game that come down to the shop floor, arrange meetings with players around motivational issues and then openly admit it in a public domain. The way I see it working is they speak from an overarching position and talk vertically about the Academy to the first team and laterally from the recruitment thru analytics to the Sport Science team and yes, work WITH the manager to support him through those channels, make process changes and enhancements that make his job easier in every facet of his job. A higher level negotiator and facilitator that creates a pathway between the manager and the owners and provides updates to the owners on how their vision of a club is being implemented and managed. Like you say, working together as a team. What Walters has done here isn't that though, but I get it. People are desperate, the club is desperate and they are all throwing muck at the wall and hoping it sticks. Fans are desperate for anything to work and will happy clap behind it. Totally understand that. It's quite clearly chaos. Maybe it works, sometimes chaos does work. In every organisation I have worked someone at the very top has given some sort of annual address (either in person or via a video recording) and typically personally announced any really major piece of news relating to the future of the company and often those addresses include some sort of rallying cry. This is what SJW has done here - it's nothing out of the ordinary and there is nothing in it that undermines the Schumacher's authority. Anything to do with running the organization on a day to day basis would be done through the management structures as you say. If SJW were to swan in and take a training session or make suggestions for the starting 11 he would be undermining the Head Coach but he hasn't done that. And SJW has far too much class to treat Schumacher like a twat. That ain't John's style at all.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 29, 2024 10:34:05 GMT
Understood. OK so Schuey isnt undermined in any way by JW and his approach, you know this. Why would he be? Precisely. And in fact he isn't entitled to feel undermined by a Technical Director doing their job. If he feels threatened by this he has a problem - at the end of the day he works for the Technical Director and if the Technical Director wants to address the players they have every right to do so. It seems to me some people don't get (or don't want to accept) how this type of structure should work. We don't have a top dog manager anymore - we have a Head Coach who in terms of the management structure takes their orders from the Technical Director. The pecking order has changed.
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Post by bertiestan on Feb 29, 2024 10:37:28 GMT
So why didn’t Macari do the same when Overson delivered his speech? We get you don’t like him but cmon eh stop seeing stuff that just isn’t there Understood. OK so Schuey isnt undermined in any way by JW and his approach, you know this. We know about as much as you so we’re all guessing in some way…so stop thinking your far superior👍 my god I bet your an absolute ball🙄
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Post by pushon on Feb 29, 2024 10:41:27 GMT
Precisely. And in fact he isn't entitled to feel undermined by a Technical Director doing their job. If he feels threatened by this he has a problem - at the end of the day he works for the Technical Director and if the Technical Director wants to address the players they have every right to do so. It seems to me some people don't get (or don't want to accept) how this type of structure should work. We don't have a top dog manager anymore - we have a Head Coach who in terms of the management structure takes their orders from the Technical Director. The pecking order has changed. Most definitely, but it seems that a sizeable number on the forum either don't understand or do not accept this progression.
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Post by thornestein on Feb 29, 2024 10:54:44 GMT
For gods sake Squeekster / Mundane Derek in your 30k a year job you chose that role, for god sale liven up and support SS . Dont forget your sandwiches in the morning - Jesus liven up - you will have your 2 week caravan holiday in Rhyl soon to look forward to bit of a 🛎️🔚 aren’t you
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ian57
Academy Starlet
Posts: 136
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Post by ian57 on Feb 29, 2024 11:07:26 GMT
Wakefield Stokie please call the Samaritans asap and take Squeekster / Mundane Derek with you the Samaritans would hang up mate.
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Post by coldtuesdaynight on Feb 29, 2024 11:14:24 GMT
I think everyone knows Schuey getting the sack and Walters becoming interim manager has a probability significantly greater than 0. We might disagree on the exact likelihood, but I imagine there will be few saying it’s absolutely impossible given the nature of things at the moment.
But I seriously worry about the intelligence of our players if they can’t handle the concept of their boss having a boss in the manner people are making out.
If my department’s manager ever rings me and asks me to do something, I don’t start thinking the company is in a mess or thinking ‘I’ll start performing really badly to make my team leader look bad.’
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 29, 2024 11:15:39 GMT
Precisely. And in fact he isn't entitled to feel undermined by a Technical Director doing their job. If he feels threatened by this he has a problem - at the end of the day he works for the Technical Director and if the Technical Director wants to address the players they have every right to do so. It seems to me some people don't get (or don't want to accept) how this type of structure should work. We don't have a top dog manager anymore - we have a Head Coach who in terms of the management structure takes their orders from the Technical Director. The pecking order has changed. Most definitely, but it seems that a sizeable number on the forum either don't understand or do not accept this progression. In theory yes. But to be fair every club will do things slightly differently. And this interface has to be handled carefully so as not to undermine a coach or else it would make it very difficult for him to keep the players onside if the players think the technical director is the person they need to listen to. Stoke won't want to create a situation where the players can just think fuck this coach he isn't calling the shots. That simply wouldn't make any sense in my opinion.
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ian57
Academy Starlet
Posts: 136
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Post by ian57 on Feb 29, 2024 11:16:46 GMT
A ‘rank above’. So SJW is the leader? Where does that leave the subordinate SS? The same as Pulis when everybody got behind pottermouth Did that mean he couldn’t motivate? Grow up all of yer ffs I’ve told you before mate,you are really wasting your time.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 29, 2024 11:31:50 GMT
Understood. OK so Schuey isnt undermined in any way by JW and his approach, you know this. Nobody really knows anything do they. So we can either sit here criticising absolutely everything they do and how they do it. Or we can try and get on board be positive and hope they sort it out. We'll know in 9-12 games and can all start having a big row again 😆 🤣
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 29, 2024 11:33:51 GMT
Nobody really knows anything do they. So we can either sit here criticising absolutely everything they do and how they do it. Or we can try and get on board be positive and hope they sort it out. We'll know in 9-12 games and can all start having a big row again 😆 🤣 What was so funny. Its a simple choice..
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 29, 2024 11:35:00 GMT
Understood. OK so Schuey isnt undermined in any way by JW and his approach, you know this. We know about as much as you so we’re all guessing in some way…so stop thinking your far superior👍 my god I bet your an absolute ball🙄 The irony of having a go at me for assumptions, then making an assumption on me🤣
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 29, 2024 11:36:14 GMT
What was so funny. Its a simple choice.. Was laughing at your comment about having an argument. Nothing malicious
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Post by Scouse on Feb 29, 2024 11:38:29 GMT
In answer to the OP - yes. That is how a managerial structure of Technical Director and Head Coach is supposed to work. Anyone who doesn't get that effectively wants us to resort to a god manager. Which is fine. But there isn't a single club at the top of the football pyramid that works that way anymore. So good luck 👍 It's not the structure under question, everyone understands that. Its the Technical Director delivering the 'call to arms' direct to the players. Which some would say usurped the authority of the manager. I dont particularly have an opinion on this but it's a different argument. Happens all the time in outside industry where there’s a management structure in place .. and a department has underachieved ( in this case the 1st team ) , a rallying cry as reported , though may also have contained a collective threat element of what continual under achievement would mean going forward .. and a reminder that if you’re not with us you’re against us ..to those not with us the door is open Skill of the senior is knowing when to do it and how ( invited by his junior manager ( HC ) or indeed not ) so it’s not seen to undermine, conversations will have taken place before hand between the HC and DT to discuss timing message and tone It should be remembered that in addition to recruitment , one of the responsibilities of the DT is player retention ( that means holding on to the ones you want , and arranging for those you don’t to leave ..I don’t know if he has , but if the temporary DT doesn’t currently have the authority to discuss or grant 24/25 contracts ( or indeed end them ) that makes the situation more difficult for all sides ..it’s why we need that position filling asap ..not least because the current league position means more players and agents will be asking the DT about their situation than if we were say mid table going nowhere Its briefed out to the media for two main reasons 1) To show fans they’re aware of the clubs position , and to ask for their help , you do this by trying to avoid asking them too directly ( because you know some will answer we’ve shown patience and support ) , but by refreshing and planting a seed in peoples minds of how powerful the fans have been in the past 2) After the meeting You speak quickly to the media giving your version of the rallying cry , to beat well paid spoilt players to the pass , before they can get their agents and family members to spread the dirt to a media industry that feeds on malicious and solicitous gossip
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 29, 2024 11:40:25 GMT
What was so funny. Its a simple choice.. Was laughing at your comment about having an argument. Nothing malicious Fair doos. Survive or not we'll all be rowing on here as usual about what the next move is 😆 I've decided to just take the positive approach until we know either way. Hoping that positivity breeds more positivity that feeds through to the players. Likewise negativity can do the same thing.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 29, 2024 11:46:37 GMT
Was laughing at your comment about having an argument. Nothing malicious Fair doos. Survive or not we'll all be rowing on here as usual about what the next move is 😆 I've decided to just take the positive approach until we know either way. Hoping that positivity breeds more positivity that feeds through to the players. Likewise negativity can do the same thing. Can’t argue with that Mickey, admire your positive approach
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 29, 2024 11:58:17 GMT
In answer to the OP - yes. That is how a managerial structure of Technical Director and Head Coach is supposed to work. Anyone who doesn't get that effectively wants us to resort to a god manager. Which is fine. But there isn't a single club at the top of the football pyramid that works that way anymore. So good luck 👍 It's not the structure under question, everyone understands that. Its the Technical Director delivering the 'call to arms' direct to the players. Which some would say usurped the authority of the manager. I dont particularly have an opinion on this but it's a different argument. I don't understand how anyone might think that the Technical Director addressing the players undermines the Head Coach. If the Technical Director criticises or belittles the Head Coach in the address then yes it would be undermining them but there is nothing in the address that could be interpreted as being disrespectful. And anyway if the Technical Director were to do this they would be behaving like a complete arsehole and I don't believe SJW is the type of person to do that. He might give him a bollocking in private but he won't do it in public. It's telling that people keep referring to Schumacher as the manager - its even implied in the title of this thread. Schumacher isn't the manager - he's the Head Coach and to be fair on Schumacher he has made it clear that his title is Head Coach from day one. I genuinely don't believe posters on here have realised that we no longer have a god manager - we have a Head Coach who reports to Technical Director. In terms of the hierarchy the top dog is the Technical Director, not the Head Coach.
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Post by coomerson on Feb 29, 2024 12:00:56 GMT
We just need Wayne Rooney down there as assistant coach and we'd have a little posse of blue scousers all having a great time and reminiscing about the Toffees. Careful what you wish for! He was pitching for a role on tv last night.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 29, 2024 12:06:25 GMT
We just need Wayne Rooney down there as assistant coach and we'd have a little posse of blue scousers all having a great time and reminiscing about the Toffees. Careful what you wish for! He was pitching for a role on tv last night. I'd put him in the squad to be fair 😆
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Post by knype on Feb 29, 2024 12:25:22 GMT
Precisely. And in fact he isn't entitled to feel undermined by a Technical Director doing their job. If he feels threatened by this he has a problem - at the end of the day he works for the Technical Director and if the Technical Director wants to address the players they have every right to do so. It seems to me some people don't get (or don't want to accept) how this type of structure should work. We don't have a top dog manager anymore - we have a Head Coach who in terms of the management structure takes their orders from the Technical Director. The pecking order has changed. Most definitely, but it seems that a sizeable number on the forum either don't understand or do not accept this progression. Lots on Twitter too, call for change of structure and how we are run, we change it all and now they are criticising that!
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Post by wakeypotter on Feb 29, 2024 12:43:58 GMT
This argument/discussion sums up the oatcake. Sjw has done nothing wrong, not undermined ss at all. At the end of the day now we have all to galvanise as one to get this club out of the bottom 3.
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Post by andystokey on Feb 29, 2024 13:17:45 GMT
Precisely. And in fact he isn't entitled to feel undermined by a Technical Director doing their job. If he feels threatened by this he has a problem - at the end of the day he works for the Technical Director and if the Technical Director wants to address the players they have every right to do so. It seems to me some people don't get (or don't want to accept) how this type of structure should work. We don't have a top dog manager anymore - we have a Head Coach who in terms of the management structure takes their orders from the Technical Director. The pecking order has changed. What we do know is that SS encourages senior players to lead on discussions in their area e.g midfield and such. He wants them to stand up and deliver insights. That's a sign of confidence in his position not weakness. I find it just weird that some think the coach should be the only voice the team hear.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Feb 29, 2024 13:26:22 GMT
I don't think people understand this new structure and have said it for quite some time now. I can't remember many, if any of these Technical Director types in the game that come down to the shop floor, arrange meetings with players around motivational issues and then openly admit it in a public domain. The way I see it working is they speak from an overarching position and talk vertically about the Academy to the first team and laterally from the recruitment thru analytics to the Sport Science team and yes, work WITH the manager to support him through those channels, make process changes and enhancements that make his job easier in every facet of his job. A higher level negotiator and facilitator that creates a pathway between the manager and the owners and provides updates to the owners on how their vision of a club is being implemented and managed. Like you say, working together as a team. What Walters has done here isn't that though, but I get it. People are desperate, the club is desperate and they are all throwing muck at the wall and hoping it sticks. Fans are desperate for anything to work and will happy clap behind it. Totally understand that. It's quite clearly chaos. Maybe it works, sometimes chaos does work. In every organisation I have worked someone at the very top has given some sort of annual address (either in person or via a video recording) and typically personally announced any really major piece of news relating to the future of the company and often those addresses include some sort of rallying cry. This is what SJW has done here - it's nothing out of the ordinary and there is nothing in it that undermines the Schumacher's authority. Anything to do with running the organization on a day to day basis would be done through the management structures as you say. If SJW were to swan in and take a training session or make suggestions for the starting 11 he would be undermining the Head Coach but he hasn't done that. I agree. I think people are reading a little too much into this. Bearing in mind he has just been appointed, albeit on an interim basis, I would fully expect him to go and address the employees that he is responsible for overseeing. At work, when we had a new head of department come in the first thing that he did was arrange a meeting with the different teams working under him. He spoke about his background and expectations - which is essentially what Walters has done.
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Post by geoff321 on Feb 29, 2024 13:40:29 GMT
Precisely. And in fact he isn't entitled to feel undermined by a Technical Director doing their job. If he feels threatened by this he has a problem - at the end of the day he works for the Technical Director and if the Technical Director wants to address the players they have every right to do so. It seems to me some people don't get (or don't want to accept) how this type of structure should work. We don't have a top dog manager anymore - we have a Head Coach who in terms of the management structure takes their orders from the Technical Director. The pecking order has changed. Are you saying that PEP reports to a Sporting Director at Man. City, or JK reports to a Director of Football at Liverpool? Can't believe they do!
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Post by werrington on Feb 29, 2024 13:55:45 GMT
The same as Pulis when everybody got behind pottermouth Did that mean he couldn’t motivate? Grow up all of yer ffs I’ve told you before mate,you are really wasting your time. What boils my piss mate is if this was Walters speaking if Pulis was the manager those criticising would say it was the club coming together as one in a time of need It’s fucking pathetic
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